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I don’t know if Josh is gonna be able to help given he’s been occupied on the XB2 CRT. If he can give any inputs about the higher dimension then sure, if not then I don’t mind waiting for you or BeeDub to be ready to debate.
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Xenoblade Revision Part 1: Tier Revisions and Minor Hax Adjustments
- Thread starter BeeDub98
- Start date
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Ah also, idk if this will be addressed for the next part, but how does alvis represent the end and beginning? He doesn'tembody that, he just was there at the beginning of their universe and will be at the end.
I think that aside from being the monado, this also give him AE, but idk if it was going to be addressed later, just to show in case no one ever address it.
I think that aside from being the monado, this also give him AE, but idk if it was going to be addressed later, just to show in case no one ever address it.
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It seems like it’d get covered in the second part, but that’s still very important though.
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Well I will argue for Acausality 4 for Gods and Shulk team.
According to the Monado Complete Guide(another book with lore) we know that the team was granted free will by Alvis to escape the pre-established harmony(break the visisons), what we know that the visions is the future as it was predetermined by the Passage of Fate, and Alvis even says that with his visions he could change the passage of fate because of existing outside it. So while only Shulk can see the future, its stated by WoG that all of them exist outside the Pre Established harmony
Same thing but for the lazy:
WoG as seen in the Complete Guide (translated by a group of redditors)
What they have in common?? they were all foster by Gods to escape the Pre established harmony.
Alvis for the team, Zanza for Shulk, and Meyneth for Fiora.
So yeah, IF the Reddit translations(those who translated the Complete Guide) are wrong or something, then i am clown.
Well i think i have more elaboration/clarification now
According to the Monado Complete Guide(another book with lore) we know that the team was granted free will by Alvis to escape the pre-established harmony(break the visisons), what we know that the visions is the future as it was predetermined by the Passage of Fate, and Alvis even says that with his visions he could change the passage of fate because of existing outside it. So while only Shulk can see the future, its stated by WoG that all of them exist outside the Pre Established harmony
Same thing but for the lazy:
WoG as seen in the Complete Guide (translated by a group of redditors)
He even says to the Meyneth possesed Fiora that she exist outside the pre established harmony as stated by the OP.
What they have in common?? they were all foster by Gods to escape the Pre established harmony.
Alvis for the team, Zanza for Shulk, and Meyneth for Fiora.
So yeah, IF the Reddit translations(those who translated the Complete Guide) are wrong or something, then i am clown.
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I've read the blog, and I still have some issues with the pre-established harmony stuff. The fact that they refer to the whole "exists outside of the pre-established harmony as breaking the visions sounds more like resistance to precognition against Zanza as opposed to acausality type 4.
Btw, I noticed this line here.
Btw, I noticed this line here.
Uhh... is that a legit translation of that line? If so that kind of puts a hole in the type 1 acausality they're supposed to have.
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Define to me what are the visions aside from "future sight". Lore wise i mean.
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They’re the visions of the future. What are you trying to get here?
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Yes ofc they're from the future, but what i meant is.
They(those with visions) see into the passage of fate to have visions in the first place, right? What is the passage of fate? Fate.(duh) they're seeing the fate that is supposed to happen, right?
When you break a vision what do you do to the passage of fate? You change it. How do they change fate without being either resistant or acausals.
[
And by Zanza and WoG existing outside the "pre established Harmony" to break the pre existant future that had to happen, that sounds very mucho' to acausality.
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They see the passage of fate, changing fate doesn't mean you exist outside of it, that could easily be just normal fate manipulation in a different context, literally the only characters noteworthy enough to be stated to exist outside of it is Shulk and Alvis, Zanza and Meyneth aren't remotely noteworthy from Alvis to be brought up. Also changing fate is mostly on shulk's end since he's the one with the powers, no one else in the group remotely has that, and the gods are barely referenced in Alvis' case to be outside the passage of fate.
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1. They can break visions which are the predetermined fate
2.Zanza literally says to Meyneth that she exist outside the Pre Established harmony.
3.WoG says that the team exist outside the pre established harmony.
Also manual Fate Manipulation?
Even in game, Zanza says that to Meyneth, then what is the pre established harmony? And why is it even remotely "noteworthy" enough to be mentioned by WoG and Zanza?
the WoG says that Alvis himself started to grants them(Shulk and Co) free will. and as a result of that, they as a group managed to escape the currents of the Pre established harmony granting them the capability to change the future that was determined by Passage of Fate put as break the visions which is disrupting the future.
idk, sound pretty Acausality to me.
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That’s reaching imo. Breaking visions again just mean resistance to precognition without any further context, given the text literally describes the pre-established harmony as making Zanza’s precog not work when they say the vision breaks, AKA his precog does not work.
Zanza is not Alvis, even he’s not aware of how the passage of fate works unlike Alvis does, who only refers to Shulk and himself as being able to exist outside of the passage of fate. If everyone else exists outside of it, why doesn’t Alvis remotely bring up anyone else and treat Shulk as the special one? Maybe because he’s the only one who exists outside of it to begin with? It’s not that hard to understand.
Zanza is not Alvis, even he’s not aware of how the passage of fate works unlike Alvis does, who only refers to Shulk and himself as being able to exist outside of the passage of fate. If everyone else exists outside of it, why doesn’t Alvis remotely bring up anyone else and treat Shulk as the special one? Maybe because he’s the only one who exists outside of it to begin with? It’s not that hard to understand.
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Shulk precog doesn't work either then, considering that what he sees is constantly being changed by him and his team then.
by that logic Shulk resists his own precog.
he sees fate, he has the ability to change it, thus resisting against fate, but also his teammates can, because Alvis helped them to have free will(aka break the visions).
Alvis is not WoG, also he treats Shulk as the special one because he is the host of Zanza?, because he is the god that Zanza made, because he is wielder of the Monado and other doesn't(Sans Fiora who lose it instantly). Because he is the one that he choose to liberate the world. Not the others.
The WoG says that Alvis himself grants them free will.
being able to defy fate and change visions of the PoF which are things that were fated to happen by fate, "existing outside the pre established harmony or managing to escape it" by two sources, one being Word of god, having free will thanks to Alvis. sounds like acausality tbh.
to me, the arguments in favor of acausality are more convincing.(duh im the one defending it)
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That's not how it works given Shulk's precognition is not shown to not work on specific beings, and his is superior to Zanza's.
So why is that scalable to the rest of the cast when Alvis only talks to Shulk about existing outside of the passage of fate? You listing off the special things Shulk got doesn't debunk my point, it just helps my end cause it just proves the point even more that it's something only for Shulk and not the entire cast, including the gods. Alvis granting them free will doesn't mean they exist outside the passage of fate when he's been helping out through messing with Zanza's goal with being one with the passage of fate.
So why is that scalable to the rest of the cast when Alvis only talks to Shulk about existing outside of the passage of fate? You listing off the special things Shulk got doesn't debunk my point, it just helps my end cause it just proves the point even more that it's something only for Shulk and not the entire cast, including the gods. Alvis granting them free will doesn't mean they exist outside the passage of fate when he's been helping out through messing with Zanza's goal with being one with the passage of fate.
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Yes but his vision that he breaks is like the one of Zanza because it came from Him, and either way his visions comes from PoF even the one that was by himself(Post Resurrection). The main function of Shulk visions in game is that They are breakable.
I only addressed it because you asked why he was special, he only mentions to Shulk and not the others because of that, he is the one who can see the future,not them, he was even focusing in his ability to have visions.
No, fostering the free will was the Cause, the Effect was escaping the Pre-established harmony.
Visions=seeing Fate, breaking visions=Changing fate.
The team can break the visions too.
Writing visions so many times isn't good for ny health
im curious, what do you believe that existing outside the pre established harmony Actually means, like what even is ''pre established harmony'' for you?, Forget about Breaking FUTURE SEEING(tired of 'that' word) part for now
Like, how do you manage to exist outside of a precog which main work is seeing fate, Zanza must have Precog miopia
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At that point in the game it’s not even Zanza’s visions anymore. Zanza even quotes how he even has visions to begin with despite the fact that he left Shulk’s body during the final fight.
so you accept that he’s special right? Meaning he’s the one who’s gifted these traits over his friends? The same people who rely on Shulk to begin with in order to change the fate?
the team only break the fate through Shulk, without him they cannot do anything. Look through all of the visions Shulk gets and a good chunk of them revolves around his friends being in peril. The only reason they don’t die is because Shulk is the one changing their fates. The rest of them cannot even do it on their own cause they lack the visions.
existing outside of the pre-established harmony like I’ve said before, does not mean anything because we don’t get an explanation on what that means, we only get an explanation on the passage of fate, and again that’s only for Shulk and Alvis.
so you accept that he’s special right? Meaning he’s the one who’s gifted these traits over his friends? The same people who rely on Shulk to begin with in order to change the fate?
the team only break the fate through Shulk, without him they cannot do anything. Look through all of the visions Shulk gets and a good chunk of them revolves around his friends being in peril. The only reason they don’t die is because Shulk is the one changing their fates. The rest of them cannot even do it on their own cause they lack the visions.
existing outside of the pre-established harmony like I’ve said before, does not mean anything because we don’t get an explanation on what that means, we only get an explanation on the passage of fate, and again that’s only for Shulk and Alvis.
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So...can this be applied now? Or we should wait for something to be settled?
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We’re waiting for BeeDub and Medeus to come back so we can discuss tier 1 Xenoblade. Once they get back we can call Ultima to give his opinions on the situation.
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Helping bumping because that's my main job in VSBF, bumping
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Velox this thread isn’t going anywhere until BeeDub and Medeus comes back. You’re better off waiting
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Guess so back to lurking mode lel
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I'll inform y'all that Beedub is going through some irl stuff rn and likely won't be back for awhile. As for Medeus idk.
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That kudo you got above say it otherwise, still we should give them time and not rushing it
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Can I ask what ya mean by that Vel?
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What i mean is the kudo you got from Medeus mean he's still around, albeit still busy with other stuff
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I'm aware that I've already asked this on my Shulk vs Kirito thread, but may I ask for evidence that Shulk w/ Monado III has the ability to resurrect people from the dead? That's one place that raises an eyebrow with me.
Quote: "Holy Manipulation (The Monado III is described as a Holy Weapon which provides a massive boost in power, can control light, and produce Miracles), Resurrection (Resurrected every deceased character in the new universe)"
Quote: "Holy Manipulation (The Monado III is described as a Holy Weapon which provides a massive boost in power, can control light, and produce Miracles), Resurrection (Resurrected every deceased character in the new universe)"
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Well if Xenosaga, Xenogears and Xenoblade are three different franchises despite being developed by the similar crew with similar themes, we should separate discussions of such.
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Josh did say he wants to finish this thread once he gets his revisions for the verse done, so we should let him discuss.
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Let him speak as always.
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