Xeno Goku VS Mario

[ShadowWarrior1999]

There's also nothing that guarantees he will seal in-character. Goku is a brawler first and foremost.

 

[HST_Master]

It's just him being able to sense power levels.

That's not his info analysis

 

[HST_Master]

And I didn't vote yet either OP. That and Goku's not an idiot. He'll go for the seal if he has to, with Omega Shenron that's the 1st thing he did.

 

[MYHERO]

Ki sensing would be all like yeah Mario is a beast. Like how Warren says, when it really calls for it, Goku isn't going to mess around and actually try to avoid impending doom, no matter how low he has to go. Like begging Vegeta to fuse with him or gaining God Ki by swallowing his pride and letting others help him.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Goku doesn't have anyone else to help him here.

 

[MYHERO]

Sealing no?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Which as I mentioned is not in-character.

 

[HST_Master]

Goku's not an idiot. He'll go for the seal if he has to, with Omega Shenron that's the 1st thing he did.

^

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Will he do it before Mario one-shots him? Doubt so.

 

[MYHERO]

He knows not to get hit via sensing. Yes speed is equalized but Goku is master martial artist, he can sure as hell dodge for a good amount of time. And Warren has already proven that Goku spams instant transmission. Not only that Mario is a very stumpy character via design, his short stubby arms aren't going to be able to adequately hit Goku. Fun fact, that's actually why Goku aged in the story, so Toriyama can have an easier time drawing fight scenes for his story with actual proportions fit for a fighter. He will go for sealing as that will be the best way to put Mario down. He has done sealing with Omega Shenron, so it's not entirely out of character to use that.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Goku needs to lock on to someone's Ki signature to use instant transmission. Safe to say he won't be teleporting here.

Mario can also hit Goku with projectiles.

Goku used sealing before =/= it's in-character for him to normally do so. Plus Mario can do the same to him.

 

[MYHERO]

1.) Wouldn't verse equalization cover that though? Might be wrong though. Even if I am wrong my other two points stands.

2.) Mario using projectiles will be nigh useless considering Goku can dodge that too. The time when a character would use it is when it's opponent is out of range, but Goku can still dodge from afar.

3.) Why not? If he has used it once to a character he couldn't beat, he could do it again no? Also is it in character for Mario to seal?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

1) No it doesn't.

2) He can't dodge forever. He's going to have to come in at some point if he's going to try to put down Mario. Then Mario hits him GG.

3) The chances of Goku sealing is improbable compared to how Mario kills him by doing anything. And yeah, Mario can seal enemies in gameplay.

 

[MYHERO]

1.) Figures. My other two points stands though. 2.) Yes he won't be doing it forever. But again he will know Mario is strong so he will prioritize on sealing him. He should be able to resort to sealing, as he at least done it before on someone that is stronger than him. 3.) Irrelevant, but ZaStando is back.

 

[MYHERO]

I need to tap out here. I will get someone more knowledgeable about Xeno Goku.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Again, not something he normally does in-character. Mario on the other hand kills him with anything.

There's also Mario's passive power null with Pure Hearts.

 

[MYHERO]

I put it on two peoples walls. I'm not going back and forth with you about how if it is in character for Goku to resort to sealing someone that is stronger than him. I'm tired right now, busy day it was =P

 

[HST_Master]

@Shadow

If he knows he can't beat Mario normally he'll seal. Like I said Omega Shenron was the exact same situation. And he simply sealed him. No fight or anything. He starts with sealing only if he has to. Which in this situation he does. And it's not slow by any means.

 

[One_Stick_Man]

@Shadow
If he knows he can't beat Mario normally he'll seal. Like I said Omega Shenron was the exact same situation. And he simply sealed him. No fight or anything. He starts with sealing only if he has to. Which in this situation he does. And it's not slow by any means.

Xeno Goku FRA

 

[Warren_Valion]

In Mario, there is the Dream Depot, where every citizen's dream becomes a universe.

In Dragon Ball, there is a "there are countless universes based on countless possibilities" statement from Trunks which is what we use to define the DB Multiverse I believe. Here's the scan.

Actually, why is Mario considered so much stronger than Goku?

The Dream Depot doesn't seem to be bigger than a Many-Worlds Theory of Quantum Mechanics multiverse.

Okay, no one answered this question ^. This is imperative. As I don't see why Mario has such high AP value from destroying his cosmology. Dragon Ball's seems just as big, if not bigger from my understanding.

ShadowWarrior1999 wrote:

Because it's just a card? He wouldn't know what it could do.

The power nulling is passive.

1. As others have said, Goku has Information Analysis, and IIRC, it works by him looking at the opponent and knowing their abilities. It's rather instantaneous. Much faster than Mario grabbing a card out of his pocket and throwing it at Goku.

Not to mention, why would he let someone hit him with something. If you were in a fight, would you just stand there in someone threw something at you? I wouldn't, and Goku especially wouldn't.

2. Okay, the power null is passive like you say. Great.

However, what does it do specifically?

A quote from yourself, "The power null weakened Super Dimentio by removing his "invincibility" or something like that."

Well from what I can tell, one of two things happened.

• Super Dimentio had some "invincibility hax" that the Pure Hearts nullified.
• Or the more likely scenario, Super Dimentio was way stronger than Mario, to the point of being invincible in comparison, and the Pure Hearts made Dimentio weaker, which allowed Mario to defeat him.

The thing is, we are considering Mario to already be way beyond Goku in terms of physical strength in this fight [Although, I stated some questioning on this belief earlier], so making him even weaker will do nothing but further his resolve to go seal, instead of fight hand-to-hand. And if it is the other scenario, Goku doesn't have an "invincibility hax" is it is pointless.

ShadowWarrior1999 wrote:
There's also nothing that guarantees he will seal in-character. Goku is a brawler first and foremost.

Many others, including myself, have explained to you Goku's character.

If he knows he can't win a fight, then he will be averse to fighting an opponent head on and will desperately try to find a way to circumvent fighting that character.

We saw this when Goku and Vegeta were about to fight Super Buu, and Goku begged Vegeta to put on the Potara to fuse again because he knew he didn't have a chance. We saw this when Goku used the Saiyan God ritual to become a god. We saw this when Goku sealed Omega Shenron immediately at the start of the fight because he couldn't win.

I don't know where your belief in this oversimplification of Goku's character comes from, but it needs to stop as it is leading you to downplay this character.

ShadowWarrior1999 wrote:Goku needs to lock on to someone's Ki signature to use instant transmission. Safe to say he won't be teleporting here.
Mario can also hit Goku with projectiles.

Goku used sealing before =/= it's in-character for him to normally do so. Plus Mario can do the same to him.

1. Okay, now you are ignoring evidence.

I already gave you proof of Goku spamming IT in a fight to confuse a superior opponent, and it clearly shows that he is out of the melee range of that opponent. And according to Hst master, someone more knowledgeable than me about this matter, it is in character.

2. Projectiles that have a range of Tens of Meters and are quite easily dodgeable. Goku has like a hundred different ways to dodge said attacks, from moving out of the way, or flying beyond Mario's range, or teleporting out of the way, et cetera.

3. I have berated you from lack of knowledge on Goku's character enough, so I'll just give you a simple equation explaining it:

Massive (Supposed) AP advantage from his opponent + Passive power null making him significantly weaker + Info Analysis + Sensing = It is in character to use sealing right out of the gate.

Like said before, Goku will know what the card does and dodge thanks to Info Analysis and greater fighting reflexes.

Any other post just repeats the same points over an over again, so I'm not going to respond to them again and again.

Also, please answer the AP question, because until that is answered, I'm not voting.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Shadow

If he knows he can't beat Mario normally he'll seal. Like I said Omega Shenron was the exact same situation. And he simply sealed him. No fight or anything. He starts with sealing only if he has to. Which in this situation he does. And it's not slow by any means.

Pretty sure he had prior knowledge on Omega Shenron.

Which he won't have here.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Pretty sure he had prior knowledge on Omega Shenron.

Which he won't have here.

His prior knowledge was that he couldn't win with strength alone.

Goku's Info Analysis and sensing would give him that knowledge in this fight.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Yeah in the fight.

Mario isn't just standing there.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Yeah in the fight.
Mario isn't just standing there.

Goku has superior experience, skills, mobility, and range. And his Info Analysis and sensing are instantaneous.

Please answer my big post.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Actually, **** waiting until the AP question. Although I still want it answered.

If Goku is massively weaker than Mario like it is said, then he will just seal Mario in the Dragon Balls because of the formula I wrote before:

"Massive (Supposed) AP advantage from his opponent + Passive power null making him significantly weaker + Info Analysis + Sensing = It is in character to use sealing right out of the gate."

And like I said, Goku's Info Analysis and sensing are instantaneous and will lead him into convincing him that he will seal Mario.

Goku will be able to do this because, as I said before, he has the superior experience, skills, mobility, and range.


And if Goku isn't massively weaker than Mario, then Goku would still take it due to having the superior experience, skills, mobility, and range, and having instantaneous Info Analysis informing him about any hax abilities that Mario has that he needs to dodge.


So yeah, I'm voting Goku until proven otherwise.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Does Mario like, lack all of the stuff he normally has? Like, no Super Mushroom, no Metal Box, no Tanooki Suit, etc. Because that's the only way Goku has superior skills.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Does Mario like, lack all of the stuff he normally has? Like, no Super Mushroom, no Metal Box, no Tanooki Suit, etc. Because that's the only way Goku has superior skills.

That makes him more versatile, okay... How does any of that make Mario a better fighter?

To quote the legend himself:

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Outright said that Goku is the better fighter by a noticeable margin. Experience isn't enough to grant you a win over someone with better powers and strength

And Mario still experienced combat since before he was a year old, and if you really think about it, Mario's been in more fights than Goku (though that's only if you count literally stomping fodder).

 

[Warren_Valion]

Outright said that Goku is the better fighter by a noticeable margin. Experience isn't enough to grant you a win over someone with better powers and strength
And Mario still experienced combat since before he was a year old, and if you really think about it, Mario's been in more fights than Goku (though that's only if you count literally stomping fodder).

Growing larger, becoming metal, throwing fire/ice balls, et cetera.

These powers aren't the be all end all. And they only have a range of tens of meters, which Goku can get out of quite easily through numerous abilities.

If Mario does have a hax ability that's useful then Goku's Info Analysis would warn him of what it is, and if it's dodgeable, Goku will utilize his greater mobility to dodge it.

And quantity =/= quality.

Mario may have more experience, but his fights aren't martial arts. Goku has the fighting skills advantage. And stomping fodder doesn't grant much fighting skill. Look at Broly, he stomps everything in his path, but he isn't a great fighter.

And I'd like my question on why Mario has the greater AP answered, please.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Mario's AP is "every dream anyone and everyone has ever had is a universe". Goku is "countless".

 

[DMUA]

Mario's AP is "every dream anyone and everyone has ever had is a universe which is populated by many, many other beings who also dream and create universes who dream and create universes ad infinitum for every night for the last billion years"

Fixed

IE: Goku is generic Stronk 2-B

Mario is someone who can one shot Arceus.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Mario's AP is "every dream anyone and everyone has ever had is a universe". Goku is "countless".

Goku's countless is, "there are countless universes based on countless possibilities" statement from Trunks which is what we use to define the DB Multiverse. Here's the scan.

Every dream creating a universe vs. Countless possibilities of the Many Worlds Theory of Quantum Mechanics

They sound equal to me.

Edit: I searched it up and the Dream Depot is where every citizen in the Mushroom Kingdom dreams go, not every person in creations dream.

So how does that compare to a Many Worlds Theory of Quantum Mechanics cosmology in any way?

 

[The_Causality]

Isn't the DBH multiverse is one of the biggest in the site due to the revision about 2-A?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Causality. No. Not in the slightest.

@Warren. That's not what it's based on. Multiple worlds are only created through time travel in DB. That's very common knowledge, especially if we're using a scan from the canon.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Isn't the DBH multiverse is one of the biggest in the site due to the revision about 2-A?

No because that was rejected.

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Causality. No. Not in the slightest.
@Warren. That's not what it's based on. Multiple worlds are only created through time travel in DB. That's very common knowledge, especially if we're using a scan from the canon.

That is what it is based on.

Dragon Ball wouldn't be 2-B otherwise. There was even a thread that would have upgrade canon Zeno to 2-B, but it was rejected due to it being too vague.

Going back in time creates more and more timelines, but it isn't the foundation of the cosmology.

 

[DMUA]

Actually, DB makes a timeline whenever someone uses a time machine, DBH just stretches infinitely with each and every possibility along the way.

Still not Maleo level but

 

[DMB_1]

@Dodo You mean about the thing "every possibility = a new universe"? I think it was somewhat implied but never proven.

Also, do you guys remember how Goku reacted to Super Buu's strength? I doubt he's gonna charge Mario head-on after sensing his chi.

 

[The_Causality]

I'm remember that Assalt and Matt are agree about the DBH multiverse having "near infinite timelines" so IDK

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also, addressing a few other things you mentioned before:

Range: Goku's range of multiversal is purely a matter of semantics, and the only basis of that range being a thing is with that Beerus/Goku clash. Goku normally doesn't go beyond kilometers at most for range.

Abilities: You're right that quality>quantity. Unfortunately for Goku, both are in Mario's favor as everything Goku has, Mario has and more, except for maybe one or two things here and there. Physical prowess and melee fights, yes, are in Goku's favor, obviously. Everything else, Mario. Energy beams don't compare to the myriad of other abilities Mario has.