Xeno Goku takes on another God. This time a G O A T (8-12-0)

[Andytrenom]

The paralysis inducement isn't soul hax tho.

 

[Overlord775]

@DMB 1

Asriel's soul hax >>>> Goku's resistance

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It wasn't, because those "clarifications" were false.
Goku resists soul attacks and soul absorption 8which is what Asriel's soul manipulation consists in), meaning that Asriel's attacks won't be an issue to him

Also, there is such a thing as "dodging". Goku knows this forbidden and un-mastered technique.

Why were they false? I don't remember him resisting thousands worth of soul absorption.

And soul destruction scales in potency with AP, that waas accepted in a crt.

Also, Asriel would just destroy the universe. Dodging that is difficult, and Goku would almost certanly try to stop it.

 

[Overlord775]

Also, there is such a thing as "dodging". Goku knows this forbidden and un-mastered technique.

No, he can't.

When time gets reversed Goku's actions will remain the same, so Asriel can't miss

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, he can't.

When time gets reversed his action will remain the same, so Asriel can't miss

Asriels actions would be reversed as well. he could correct the trajectory, but still.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

The paralysis inducement isn't soul hax tho.

But isn't it paralysing Frisk's body and SOUL?

 

[Overlord775]

Asriels actions would be reversed as well. he could correct the trajectory, but still.

That means Asriel just keeps time rewinding until he's able to soul hax Goku

 

[Andytrenom]

When does it paralyze his soul? Are you like unable to move the soul in this phase?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It doesn't, no. Firsk's soul is unafected. Only your body can't move.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Ahhhh ok my mistake

 

[Overlord775]

Just a small Question:

• Save and Load stuff has been Debunked ?

It wasn't

Unless you have a feat, type 1 acasuality doesn't counter time rewinds

 

[InfiniteBlack123]

Current Xeno Goku should win. He has had alot of upgrades since Demigra, he has beaten TowaMira and Chamel, Chamel who is a player Avatars and can destroy a Multiverse system that contains infinite possibilities, where each possibility is a timeline with multiple varying number of Universes.

Along with the Outer world that looks at all of the Dragon Ball franchise as though it is their fictional media.


Lets not forget he also has a Ultra Instinct mode which makes him greater than Fuu.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The last part is just something I won't bother responding to.

for the first time, how does that stop his soul from being destroyed?

 

[Quantu]

@InfiniteBlack123

Xeno Goku does not have UI.

 

[InfiniteBlack123]

Shit i forgot about the fact there there is two types of Goku in the game.

The last part is just something I won't bother responding to.

for the first time, how does that stop his soul from being destroyed?

He can resist soul destruction. From being who have effect countless souls.

 

[FateAlbane]

Just a small Question:

• Save and Load stuff has been Debunked ?

I don't remember so.

It has been debunked that Goku can't get past it or that it works like some equivalent of High Godly levels of Regenerationn in tier 2 levels that allows the user to come back from a multiversal bust that wipes them alongside the timelines.

 

[FateAlbane]

...Because I sure haven't seen any of the evidence I asked for to prove that. As in, Asriel being obliterated along all the timelines and appearing again like "lmao jk still come back I'm SMT now".

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

He can resist soul destruction. From being who have effect countless souls.

When has he done that? It sure as hell isn't on his profile.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

...Because I sure haven't seen any of the evidence I asked for to prove that. As in, Asriel being obliterated along all the timelines and appearing again like "lmao jk still come back I'm SMT now".

Chara and frisk have done that, and Asriel has more Determination than they did at that point in time.

And the power comes from determination only.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Fate Well, that still only disvalidates votes relying on him coming back after a multiverse bust.

Votes relying on simply taking an advantage through his SAVE & LOAD should still be valid, if Goku doesn't multiverse bust in character.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Ricsi No? You don't give feats from a character to another character out of nowhere, otherwise Asriel would have Chara's Mid-Godly and the (to be added) Abstract Existence as well as being reliant on the player's DT instead of using any timelines to come back.

Entirely different story there. Asriel doesn't suddenly get feats from powersets that he doesn't even own from entirely different characters based on "they both use DT". That's like saying Xeno Goku himself should have every power and ability in DB based on "they come from ki control".

 

[Andytrenom]

@Ricsi Which feat(s) are you referring to?

 

[FateAlbane]

@Fate Well, that still only disvalidates votes relying on him coming back after a multiverse bust.
Votes relying on simply taking an advantage through his SAVE & LOAD should still be valid, if Goku doesn't multiverse bust in character.

@Andy Agreed. The first line is the only thing I wanted to prove so the ability itself doesn't get overestimated. It's still a good asset for Asriel here, however not a sure win ability in any manner whatsoever.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No? You don't give feats from a character to another character out of nowhere, otherwise Asriel would have Chara's Mid-Godly and the (to be added) Abstract Existence as well as being reliant on the player's DT instead of using any timelines to come back.
Entirely different story there. Asriel doesn't suddenly get feats from powersets that he doesn't even own from entirely different characters based on "they both use DT". That's like saying Xeno Goku himself should have every power and ability in DB based on "they come from ki control".

That is just plain wrong. Chara has Mid-Godly because she relies on the soul of someone else enierly. Abstract existence has nothing to do with determination, and the latter doesn't matter. Asriel had enough DT to stalemate frisk in pacifist, and that is more than they had in genocide.

That is a false equivalency. Ki skills need to be practiced and trained. DT powers are passively given when you have enough of it. Serously, go ask azathoth if my word isn't wenough for that.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

@Ricsi Which feat(s) are you referring to?

Frisk and Chara came back from the destruction of the game separatly.

Asriel also destroyed the whole timeline and frisk was still able to will their way through that.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Ricsi Your entire reply fortifies the point I made. What allows Chara to survive the Multiversal Bust and come back has absolutely nothing to do with SAVE/LOAD. So you can't apply his/her feats to say Asriel can do the same based on DT.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

@Ricsi Your entire reply fortifies the point I made. What allows Chara to survive the Multiversal Bust and come back has absolutely nothing to do with SAVE/LOAD. So you can't apply his/her feats to say Asriel can do the same based on DT.

It relies on DT. If you think chara come back because of something else, your wrong. They came back because they had enough DT for it.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Ricsi Your entire reply fortifies the point I made. What allows Chara to survive the Multiversal Bust and come back has absolutely nothing to do with SAVE/LOAD. So you can't apply his/her feats to say Asriel can do the same based on DT.

Chara is an Abstraction and reliant on the players own Determination to come back. Not SAVE/LOAD.

They could bust the multiverse as many times as they wanted: As long as any player is there to supply them with determination, they will exist. At the end they're basically a concept. They don't need any SAVE files/timelines.

Asriel is not a concept, does not have Chara's type 8 and doesn't have their mid-godly either otherwise this match wouldn't even have happened in the first place.

You can't by any stretch of the imagination say Asriel can do the same based on having DT.

If you want to go do a CRT for it because atm you're implying he has abilities he was never accepted to have nor added to his profile.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Ricsi

You aren't talking about Chara himself destroying the game right?

Frisk I'm pretty sure withstood that destruction rather that regenerating from being destroyed alongside a timeline.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That only works after they got the players soul. It why Frisk also came back and was unafected by his timeline being destroyed.

If you want to go strictly by what is on the profile Asriel opne-shots through sheer AP.

And I still don't see reasons why Goku wouldn't get his soul crushed right away.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Ricsi 1. Well, Chara is only tier 2 at endgame upon reaching their absolute and the feat comes after that so that's what I mentioned. Getting one timeline destroyed doesn't matter in this case as long as there are others out there.

2. The AP part was debunked. As I said yesterday, if Asriel had the AP advantage I'd have no reason to vote Goku.

3. Most of Asriel's Soul Hax recquires him to actually hit as well, and Goku should outskill enough to actually avoid it. If you mean the soul absorption, it's OOC after reaching this form. If you mean angel of Death, it won't happen from the start and others have argued above that Goku should either resist it or Asriel wouldn't be capable of stopping someone >>> him in AP when he couldn't fully stop Frisk.

...That said, point 3 is not something I'm bothered by, if you want to say "Asriel wins via Soul Manip", sure. As I keep saying, my one discussion here is to not let SAVE/LOAD be treated as more than it is capable of. Other than that, you want to vote Asriel, be my guest.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The AP was not debunked. The crt isn't even done.

And what he does again't frisk is not usable to what he would do here. Against frisk he couldn't use save load in battle, and he actually wanted to play around. there is no reason for him to hold back and not aoe the whole timeline. And I was the one that said that angel of death wouldn't work, I know it.

 

[Overlord775]

3. Most of Asriel's Soul Hax recquires him to actually hit as well, and Goku should outskill enough to actually avoid it. If you mean the soul absorption, it's OOC after reaching this form.

Save and Load will allow Asriel to learn the actions that Goku will make and will counter with danmaku. So after a after a number of time rewinds Goku gets souls haxed

Asriel didn't try to use soul absorption after changing form because Frisk resisted it, so it would have been moot to try again.

 

[FateAlbane]

We can't say Asriel would act different here from his entire battle in the game otherwise I could say Xeno Goku also multiverse busts as soon as the match starts due to some speculation regarding the match while ignoring how he acts in his home verse. All this is just speculation regarding a thread. If they're in character, they should act the way they were shown to.

On the AP part, it's not being considered here. And others said it was supposed to be applied to the profile already. Of course, if that is not true, then this whole debate wouldn't need to happen since if Asriel has the AP advantage there's really no reason whatsoever to say Goku.

 

[FateAlbane]

Asriel's "infinitely above baseline" 2-B was supposed to get downgraded a while ago.
Besides, your position into 2-B depends on the number of universes, not on how massively strong you are compared to someone into the "countless" range.

^

I mean this.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Well, that doesn't work like that. Being infinitly above a 2-B does put you on that level.

It should also put you at 2-A even with the 5th dimensional axis, since the amount of energy needed to affect other timelines is breached regardless. But Flowey is becoming Low 2-C unless some new stuff is brought up.


Actually, I don't know what tier Asriel will be with that.

 

[FateAlbane]

snip

See, this is a very fair enough argument to vote Asriel, buddy. o/ Nothing to say against it.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Ricsi Truth be told I also thought it was kinda weird when I first heard he was being downgraded since he was 2-A for a long while back then. I'm going along with what was said about his AP. If he gets the upgrade/this gets revised, of course I'd agree he woulds oneshots.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Ricsi Unless you want to argue being infinitely above a 2-C put you above a 2-B I really don't think it works like that.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

He isn't getting upgraded unless flowey stays 2-C at least, but I doubt that. (He'll be 2-C with save and load, but that doesn't scale to AP, obviously)