Xeno Goku takes on another God. This time a G O A T (8-12-0)

[Warren_Valion]

Yes it does, a shitload of stuff made no sense in there. But again, killing himself and destroying all of reality to win is not something he ever does.


All of reality was destroyed in xenoverse 2, and that is canon to Heroes as well. Everything exept the Time Patroller and the scroll got destroyed.

Just because Heroes is nonsensical, doesn't mean that Goku never went through what he experienced in GT, when this Goku is a continuation on Goku from GT. You have no evidence to back your claim.

I have explained how Goku does not care about human life numerous times. You are just ignoring proof at this point.

So you don't have proof? Every timeline was destroyed, but there is no proof that Heroes Goku was destroyed. This is headcanon to explain why he didn't show up.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not at all. Goku isn't even killing anybody he knows here.

Yes he is. He is destroying all of the DB multiverse here.

And the point of his xeno character is to protect stuff. That's all he does, beat up the bad guys so they don't ruin reality. It's absolutely not what goku is about, but Heroes didn't care about the logic in it, it's just cool like that.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Just because Heroes is nonsensical, doesn't mean that Goku never went through what he experienced in GT, when this Goku is a continuation on Goku from GT. You have no evidence to back your claim.

I have explained how Goku does not care about human life numerous times. You are just ignoring proof at this point.

So you don't have proof? Every timeline was destroyed, but there is no proof that Heroes Goku was destroyed. This is headcanon to explain why he didn't show up.

It doesn't matter what he went through, his character still radically changed. It's like saying Luke is not a grumpy old man because of new hope, not how it works.

He cares about all of reality.

That's not how it works. It is stated that everything was destroyed. You have to prove that he was unaffected for some weird reason.

 

[FateAlbane]

Not at all. Goku isn't even killing anybody he knows here.

Yes he is. He is destroying all of the DB multiverse here.

Battles take place in a neutral Universe unless stated otherwise in the OP.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Yes he is. He is destroying all of the DB multiverse here.

And the point of his xeno character is to protect stuff. That's all he does, beat up the bad guys so they don't ruin reality. It's absolutely not what goku is about, but Heroes didn't care about the logic in it, it's just cool like that.

SBA says they are in the Real World, in central park.

That doesn't exist in the Dragon Ball world.

And Goku goes along with the Time Patrol because he can get a good fight. Just because his job description says he has to do something, doesn't mean that he will do that something for those reasons.

Just because someone donates to charity, doesn't mean they did it for altruistic intentions. The deed they did was a good one, but they themselves don't have to be a good person to do a good deed. The same scenario works for Goku.

 

[FateAlbane]

Also again, I can say then that Asriel will never use SAVE/LOAD and Soul Absorption if we're going in that direction since he never used any of that in this form.

He tries to shoot Goku, gets punched and dies.

So much for things we haven't seen them do.

 

[John_Werner]

Nuking the timeline isn't enought to kill Asriel. That was Asriel did and his file still existed

You are forgetting that if Goku was to nuke the multiverse, he would kill Asriel as well.
If there is no multiverse, and no Asriel, then there is nothing to load.

Goku can nuke the multiverse, but the possibility of doing so is so low compared to Asriel's getting a win or stalemate. Unless you say Goku can nuke the whole multiverse from the start, Asriel can defeat him via soul attacks, if that doesn't work, hypergonner (goku can't move without space and time) or Save and Load. Every knowledge goku will gain during the battle which will help him: Goku knows he need to do something in order to win(nuke the multiverse) ....But that will be useless because save and load. His memories will be useless. Save and Load doesn't works like a conventional time rewind. Even a normal reset is a bit different.)

 

[Overlord775]

Even if the multiverse busrt argument is a thing

Before Goku decides to use it Asriel would have enought time to souls hax him via knowing what action he will make via SAFE and LOAD

Since the whole argument of Frisk having type 1 acasuality via resisting having his memory rewinded so Goku resists too is false, since Frink's acausality come from somewhere else

 

[FateAlbane]

See, what Overlord says I can go with and not question, no problem.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Also again, I can say then that Asriel will never use SAVE/LOAD and Soul Absorption going in that direction since he never used any of that in this form.
He tries to shoot Goku, gets punched and dies.

This is false.

You didn't even bother to actually respond to the explaination of why he deosn't.

He plain tells you that he is trying to but can't because of frisk. He even taunts you on how each time you die your slipping and he is closer to resetting everything.

When he tried to eat Frisk's soul they resisted it.

Of course he doesn't use stuff that doesn't work. He has no reason to even try to fight gou directly here, sincde he isn't anything like Chara. He'll just eat everything he can and reset, and goku isn't resisting the soul hax.

 

[Warren_Valion]

It doesn't matter what he went through, his character still radically changed. It's like saying Luke is not a grumpy old man because of new hope, not how it works.

He cares about all of reality.

That's not how it works. It is stated that everything was destroyed. You have to prove that he was unaffected for some weird reason.

I saying that just because he's slightly different as a character doesn't mean he didn't go through such experiences. And what the proof do you have that this Goku wouldn't blow himself up to win the fight?

No, he doesn't.


It was stated that everyone was destroyed in the attack, and unless you think Goku can be killed by the attack, then no, he wasn't killed.

And again, Goku has fought in voids numerous times before. Why should they be invalidated by something that doesn't even directly say that he was killed, but by your assumption?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

See, what Overlord says I can go with and not question, no problem.

He was also saying that goku would not bust the Multiverse... He is merely poitning out the flaws with that even if he did.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Ricsi I didn't bother because I already explained quite a good number of times and you alone out of the whole thread seem to be under the impression that only your view in this matter can possibly be accepted.

That's not how it works.

If two people disagree, we count how many think one thing and how many think in the other direction. Turns out even people voting Asriel don't act like Goku won't ever try to bust the Multiverse if he gets a chance to because "semantics". My point in the reply you quoted was supposed to be absurd from the beginning, which I made quite obvious by the way I worded it. It's to exemplify how wrong this impression of "Goku won't possibly bust the multiverse ever" is, but using Asriel's side for it.

 

[FateAlbane]

He was also saying that goku would not bust the Multiverse... He is merely poitning out the flaws with that even if he did.

He legitimately started the point with: "Even if the Multiverse bust argument is a thing".

Meaning that what follows justifies his vote for Asriel even under the impression of Goku being capable of doing it.

Hence why I said I see no problems in that reasoning despite taking the Multiverse point into consideration. It's fair. Unlike going out of your way to discredit the wincon of a character based on the assumptions of what someone thinks SBA works like.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I saying that just because he's slightly different as a character doesn't mean he didn't go through such experiences. And what the proof that Goku wouldn't blow himself up?

No, he doesn't.

It was stated that everyone was destroyed in the attack, and unless you think Goku can be killed by the attack, then no, he wasn't killed.

And again, Goku has fought in voids numerous times before. Why should they be invalidated by something that doesn't even directly say that he was killed, but by your assumption?

He weent through them. He also groped bulma as a child. Only because he did something doesn't mean he'll repeat that. He is a timepatroller that takes his job seriously, that is as far away from his character as it gets.

Yes he does. Did you actually watch heroes and shit? He became a time patroller to keep reality safe dude.

What are you talking about? It was stated that litirally nothing else existed after that. You can't assume he did without proof.

Because he is part of "everything in reality exept the time patroller"


Also, no, they are connected to the multiverse. Much like how the universe is connceted to the warp in any warhammer fight.

 

[PaChi2]

Ssssssssssssssstop defending goku! He losssssssssssssst.

Ceasssssssssssssssse thisssssssssss futile ressssssssssssisssssssstance.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

He legitimately started the point with: "Even if the Multiverse bust argument is a thing".

Meaning that what follows justifies his vote for Asriel even under the impression of Goku being capable of doing it.

Hence why I said I see no problems in that reasoning despite taking the Multiverse point into consideration. It's fair. Unlike going out of your way to discredit the wincon of a character based on the assumptions of what someone thinks SBA works like.

You making a character win based on what you think the SBA means is not better. I am saying that it doesn't say that they become willing to kill everything just to win.

And I already said that it wouldn't work like that regardless.

And what was your problem with the reasoning why Asriel would use time hax then?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Goku can nuke the multiverse, but the possibility of doing so is so low compared to Asriel's getting a win or stalemate. Unless you say Goku can nuke the whole multiverse from the start, Asriel can defeat him via soul attacks, if that doesn't work, hypergonner (goku can't move without space and time) or Save and Load. Every knowledge goku will gain during the battle which will help him: Goku knows he need to do something in order to win(nuke the multiverse) ....But that will be useless because save and load. His memories will be useless. Save and Load doesn't works like a conventional time rewind. Even a normal reset is a bit different.)

Goku would not do it to start unless bloodlust.

How does Asriel soul attacks work? Is it a wave of the hand or something? If it's dodgeable, then it can be dodged right?

Goku can move without Space and Time, he has done so before. Also, I don't know what Hypergonner even means.

Apparently, Acausality Type 1 bypasses that, if it doesn't, then this is a stomp in Asriel's favor since Goku will not ever be able to even get to the point to fight his opponent, because of SAVE & LOAD. It's like a passive stomp battle in where the opponent isn't able to move to even hit is opponent because by the time that it takes to move, they are already dead.

If this is a stomp, this should be closed.

 

[FateAlbane]

I wonder how many replies it will take until people understand that I'm not arguing Goku to no end as much as I'm arguing about how SAVE/LOAD is being overhyped beyond reason here. I didn't even argue against Overlord's reply about it and vote for Asriel because it was a sound argument that doesn't rely on it.

@Pachi2 Way ahead of you. ovo

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Regardless, Grace is over, and no-one bothered to point out why Asriel can't timehax and soulhax goku into submission.

Having a wincon he won't bother using until he has used up every other option doesn't help against getting eaten.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Ricsi 1. Ignoring dozens of replies I already made to point what I'm saying and claiming I'm "voting based on interpretation of SBA" is quite the unfair strawman if I say so myself.

2. "And what was your problem with Asriel using..." ...Pretty sure none and you saw one where there wasn't any.

 

[Overlord775]

Grace period is reset if new arguments are brought on to the table

 

[John_Werner]

The whole "Asriel will not use his Save and load and other stuff except danmaku spam" is false.
He is cocky because his fealings towards "Chara". Flowey/Asriel plays with the protagonist for a specific reason. He didn't have control over all time itself during the battle but that's because of Frisk. (he claimed that after deafeating frisk he can do that, and then reset everything). Even photoshop flowey can save and load on different files, and even base flowey can perfom a normal reset.

Flowey/Asriel isn't dumb.After Asriel seing Frisk being somewhat a threat, he uses his hypergonner. Flowey stoled the humans souls when Asgore was in battle. These two implies that asriel/flowey personality is someone who takes advantage of things when they can and not someone who plays when they are losing. If soul manipulation is useless and weak against Goku (which would mean Asriel is losing), what stops Asriel from using his other stuff (save and load, true reset and hypergonner) ? Saying Asriel will not use his other stuff when losing is against his personality as i explained.

Asriel will not have the same limitations against Xeno Goku for obvious reasons. Asriel is able to perfom a True Reset and done (he couldn't because of Frisk).

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Grace period is reset if new arguments are brought on to the table

No, the only reason it resets if the arguments were flawed and can't be counted.

The reasons still stand, so it still applies regardless.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Ceasssssssssssssssse thisssssssssss futile ressssssssssssisssssssstance.

no u

 

[FateAlbane]

Grace period is reset if new arguments are brought on to the table

Actually, if the gap in the vote count wasn't closed past the ammount needed (as in, if Asriel kept the vote count advantage throughout these 24 hours), this could be closed and added, yes.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Every time the losing side gets a vote the grace period is reset.

 

[FateAlbane]

Ah, nevermind then. Carry on.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Switching back to Goku FRA.

This was 15 hours ago, Grace isn't over.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The grace period is only reset if the gap is reduced to less than 3.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Every time the losing side gets a vote the grace period is reset.

No it isn't. I know that for a fact, several threads where I was were added despite that.

 

[The_Causality]

Currently, Goku has 10 and asriel 11

This would probably end as inconclusive.

 

[Warren_Valion]

He weent through them. He also groped bulma as a child. Only because he did something doesn't mean he'll repeat that. He is a timepatroller that takes his job seriously, that is as far away from his character as it gets.

Yes he does. Did you actually watch heroes and shit? He became a time patroller to keep reality safe dude.

What are you talking about? It was stated that litirally nothing else existed after that. You can't assume he did without proof.

Because he is part of "everything in reality exept the time patroller"


Also, no, they are connected to the multiverse. Much like how the universe is connceted to the warp in any warhammer fight.

Yes, but we are shown that why he did that (ignorance of what women were) and we are shown him grow out of that. Where is the proof that he currently won't blow himself up to defeat an opponent that he couldn't defeat otherwise?

Becoming a Time Patroller's job description is to restore time from being altered, that includes when people try blowing up the multiverse.

Just because someone signs up for a job, and does that job accordingly, doesn't mean they don't want to do something else.


Didn't characters pop in later to aid the time patroller in that fight? Aren't the villains also considered part of "everything in reality except the time patroller"? And again, why are we invalidating proof that Goku can fight in a void when he has been shown to do so before?


And no, a neutral verse is a neutral verse. That is a major false equivalency. The warp fits under the guidelines stated here:

Outside Influence: None. No characters of either verse, aside from those participating in the battle, may influence the outcome of the battle in any way. That means they may not join the fight, grant buffs, create shields, provide information etc. Exceptions are things like blessings, calling upon some higher entities power for a spell, summoning familiars to battle for them, having another character as equipment or more generally spoken the things which are listed on the profile as part of a characters own powers and abilities.

The Dragon Ball multiverse doesn't qualify.

 

[FateAlbane]

Currently, Goku has 10 and asriel 11
This would probably end as inconclusive.

Woah, the Op didn't update the count?

Rip then.

Yeah, probably Inconclusive if that's the count.

 

[Warren_Valion]

The whole "Asriel will not use his Save and load and other stuff except danmaku spam" is false.
He is cocky because his fealings towards "Chara". Flowey/Asriel plays with the protagonist for a specific reason. He didn't have control over all time itself during the battle but that's because of Frisk. (he claimed that after deafeating frisk he can do that, and then reset everything).
Even photoshop flowey can save and load on different files, and even base flowey can perfom a normal reset.

Flowey/Asriel isn't dumb.After Asriel seing Frisk being somewhat a threat, he uses his hypergonner. Flowey stoled the humans souls when Asgore was in battle. These two implies that asriel/flowey personality is someone who takes advantage of things when they can and not someone who plays when they are losing. If soul manipulation is useless and weak against Goku (which would mean Asriel is losing), what stops Asriel from using his other stuff (save and load, true reset and hypergonner) ? Saying Asriel will not use his other stuff when losing is against his personality as i explained.

Asriel will not have the same limitations against Xeno Goku for obvious reasons. Asriel is able to perfom a True Reset and done (he couldn't because of Frisk).

Ok...

1. Nobody ever said that.

2. What were the said feelings? Doesn't that show that he is likely to underestimate his opponent? Could he feel said feelings for Goku in this fight, if not, why not?

3. Just because other people do something, doesn't mean he will. Just because Asriel has the ability to win, doesn't mean he will use said ability.

4. You keep throwing around names of techniques in UT, that to someone who hasn't played UT, means nothing.

What are Hypergonner and True Reset and how do they work? Explain this.

 

[Overlord775]

He wouldn't underestimate Goku since the sayan one shots him and the only thing saving him is that safe and load activates when the user dies

So he would know from the start of the fight that he has to take Goke very seriously

 

[John_Werner]

Goku would not do it to start unless bloodlust.

How does Asriel soul attacks work? Is it a wave of the hand or something? If it's dodgeable, then it can be dodged right?

Goku can move without Space and Time, he has done so before. Also, I don't know what Hypergonner even means.

Apparently, Acausality Type 1 bypasses that, if it doesn't, then this is a stomp in Asriel's favor since Goku will not ever be able to even get to the point to fight his opponent, because of SAVE & LOAD. It's like a passive stomp battle in where the opponent isn't able to move to even hit is opponent because by the time that it takes to move, they are already dead.

If this is a stomp, this should be closed.

1. It's danmaku. Stars, storms, lasers and that kind of stuff. And he can create swords in order to attack the soul. He absorbed every soul on the underground before the battle begun.
2. Hyper Goner: The strongest attack Asriel uses while still only toying with Frisk. He transforms into an enormous, frightening goat skull before devouring the entire timeline. 3. It doesn't. Goku still can nuke the multiverse and win, but the chance of doing so ,before Asriel use his abilities like save and load (prevents goku from nuking the multiverse via making goku's memories from other timeline useless on the new battle since an old goku couldn't remember what happend on an alternative timeline), hyper gonner and true reset, is low.

 

[Warren_Valion]

He wouldn't underestimate Goku since he one shots him and the only thing saving him is that safe and load activates when the user dies
So he would know that he has to take Goke very seriously from the start of the fight

He wouldn't know Goku one-shots him initially though, right?

 

[Warren_Valion]

1. It's danmaku. Stars, storms, lasers and that kind of stuff. And he can create swords in order to attack the soul. He absorbed every soul on the underground before the battle begun.
2. Hyper Goner: The strongest attack Asriel uses while still only toying with Frisk. He transforms into an enormous, frightening goat skull before devouring the entire timeline. 3. It doesn't. Goku still can nuke the multiverse and win, but the chance of doing so before Asriel use his abilities like save and load (prevents goku from nuking the multiverse via making goku's memories from other timeline useless on the new battle since an old goku couldn't remember what happend on an alternative timeline), hyper gonner and true reset.

1. Can't Goku like....teleport, or dodge, or use his own ki attacks to block his danmaku?

2. Why would devouring a timeline matter? Goku is 2-B. He could just blow Asriel up, or teleport to a different timeline, or something else. This is a useless move.

3. If Goku's memories and actions are rendered useless because of Asriel resetting time (which apparently activates upon death and works even if all other timelines are erased as you say), then Goku can't do anything, and this is the definition of a stomp if that is the case.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Asriel just steals his soul... It's an omnidirectional light, so he isn't going to have much of a choice in dodging it.


And weren't you the one saying that they are not in the DB universe? The real world has no confiremed alternate timelines to go to.

And the last is wrong tough. If he started with destroying everything he might just be able to do something.