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Writing Discussion Thread

I guess if we adhere to the terms then my magic systems are "soft" since I try not to have too many concrete rules. I try to impose a decent number of limitations that make things partially grounded while still leaving enough room for a ton of possibilities. That balance is where I usually think authors should strike with a power system unless they're doing something REALLY grounded in whatever reality.
 
This is most people with their OCs so... I don't know.

I meant genuine writer's works. Those OC creators are mostly weird... Most OCs are either sexually abused, have been tortured for life, or have all of their family members killed. I sometimes think they do it simply for the virtue of doing it.
 
How much suffering do you think is too much suffering for the main character? (What I said doesn't even make sense, now that I look at it)
I have a character that lost his daughter through his own action saving the world. He then goes to save her through karmic, space-time bullshit. When she is saved, she doesn't even remember her own father. And the character should go a separate way from her because of karmic connection that will make her died again.

So there that tragedy. And I think this is already too much imo.
 
I have a character that lost his daughter through his own action saving the world. He then goes to save her through karmic, space-time bullshit. When she is saved, she doesn't even remember her own father. And the character should go a separate way from her because of karmic connection that will make her died again.

So there that tragedy. And I think this is already too much imo.
I don't think so. This is actually a good way to portray tragedy and the inability of humans, you know? I like this very much. He prevented the tragedy of someone else, but met his own in the process.

Spider-Man's writers wish they could portray tragedy like this instead they go, "Oh, he is going to suffer in every reality cuz why not?"

Like, I am not even kidding. Sometimes, his existence is forgotten, sometimes his wife cheats on him, sometimes godlike creatures toy with him, and sometimes, he suffers just for the sake of suffering! Swear to God, those writers don't know what the hell they are doing with Spider-Man.

Don't even get me started on Paul.. he is simply an self insert of the writer, smh.
 
I don't think so. This is actually a good way to portray tragedy and the inability of humans, you know? I like this very much. He prevented the tragedy of someone else, but met his own in the process.

Spider-Man's writers wish they could portray tragedy like this instead, "Oh, he is going to suffer in every reality cuz why not?"

Like, I am not even kidding. Sometimes, his existence is forgotten, sometimes his wife cheats on him, sometimes godlike creatures toy with him, and sometimes, he suffers just for the sake of suffering! Swear to God, those writers don't know what the hell they are doing with Spider-Man.

Don't even get me started on Paul.. he is simply an self insert of the writer, smh.
Lmao, being spider-man are suffering.
 
I don't know whether or not I wanted to share this, but I'll admit that I have an OC with a tragic backstory that I'm trying to spin in a positive manner. Basically it's a Cthulhu Mythos tale where my OC is unique in the sense that he's a hybrid between a human and Nyarlathotep (don't ask why, I just thought it'd be cool to have a character related to one of my favorite villains in horror media) and generally has had a rough life due to his unusual existence, but uses his tragic past and the power he inherited from his father to fend off hostile eldritch horrors or other anomalies that threaten the world.

The central theme of my story is that we aren't defined by the people we are related to, and that we can find hope and compassion for others in spite of the tragedies of our lives, but I struggle with the idea of if my OC's tragedy has meaning behind it or is there for the sake of having tragedy.
 
I don't know whether or not I wanted to share this, but I'll admit that I have an OC with a tragic backstory that I'm trying to spin in a positive manner. Basically it's a Cthulhu Mythos tale where my OC is unique in the sense that he's a hybrid between a human and Nyarlathotep (don't ask why, I just thought it'd be cool to have a character related to one of my favorite villains in horror media) and generally has had a rough life due to his unusual existence, but uses his tragic past and the power he inherited from his father to fend off hostile eldritch horrors or other anomalies that threaten the world.

The central theme of my story is that we aren't defined by the people we are related to, and that we can find hope and compassion for others in spite of the tragedies of our lives, but I struggle with the idea of if my OC's tragedy has meaning behind it or is there for the sake of having tragedy.
Ayyy, I have a character that is the son of Shub-Niggurath. In name, anyways. But he is a relatively normal character with no tragic backstory. He is just a human who was shown love by an eldritch All-Mother.
 
The central theme of my story is that we aren't defined by the people we are related to, and that we can find hope and compassion for others in spite of the tragedies of our lives, but I struggle with the idea of if my OC's tragedy has meaning behind it or is there for the sake of having tragedy.
There must be a good reason for tragedies if that's the central theme of your work.
 
Ayyy, I have a character that is the son of Shub-Niggurath. In name, anyways. But he is a relatively normal character with no tragic backstory. He is just a human who was shown love by an eldritch All-Mother.
Does that mean his dad in law is Yog-Sothoth? Shubby and Yoggy are often considered a couple. But I like your idea, mate. I can imagine the hilarity that would come from being a human that has a nigh omnipotent eldritch goddess as their mother, the possibility for both light hearted fluff and cosmic horror is pretty strong.
 
Does that mean his dad in law is Yog-Sothoth? Shubby and Yoggy are often considered a couple. But I like your idea, mate. I can imagine the hilarity that would come from being a human that has a nigh omnipotent eldritch goddess as their mother, the possibility for both light hearted fluff and cosmic horror is pretty strong.
Their relationship isn't revealed untill volume 3, even then their relationship is not made clear. Yoggy works as a neutral ground for humanity and the outer Gods, staying true neutral. Meanwhile, Shubby is there to oppose the idea of eradicating humanity. Magic originated from Shubby as well, giving it the potential to oppose the old ones. Making magic akin to a warm embrace form a loving mother.
 
Their relationship isn't revealed untill volume 3, even then their relationship is not made clear. Yoggy works as a neutral ground for humanity and the outer Gods, staying true neutral. Meanwhile, Shubby is there to oppose the idea of eradicating humanity.
Interesting...so I'm guessing the main conflict of your story is that the Outer Gods seek the eradication of humanity, but certain Outer Gods like Shub-Niggurath are opposed to the idea? That's an interesting concept, especially since Shub has a more intimate connection with humanity due to your OC.
 
Interesting...so I'm guessing the main conflict of your story is that the Outer Gods seek the eradication of humanity, but certain Outer Gods like Shub-Niggurath are opposed to the idea? That's an interesting concept, especially since Shub has a more intimate connection with humanity due to your OC.
Yeah, his name is Akira. I am reworking my web novel right now. He is basically the bastard child of the sea (reference to Hebrew mythology). Akira even has to solve a conflict between two titans (Leviathan and behemoth) by bringing Ziz, the primordial sky-monster at the ends of time.
 
How memorable was your MC's first fight? My character had to utilize dirty tactics to win 💀💀 He pushed his opponent off the ring. Mf was so weak, he had to use the other party's strength against him. I don't know why I made him so weak in the start, but it's fair Ig since he was fighting a second year while being a first year.
 
How memorable was your MC's first fight? My character had to utilize dirty tactics to win 💀💀 He pushed his opponent off the ring. Mf was so weak, he had to use the other party's strength against him. I don't know why I made him so weak in the start, but it's fair Ig since he was fighting a second year while being a first year.
Which one? I have like 12.
 
Isn't the main reason of suffering to build character or an audience's emotion for a character? It's pretty cliche. You can have at character that canonically suffers a lot and either not change or the general audience not have emotions not tied onto a character. That's how you can still get a mary sue or gary stu even if you give trauma

I know I'm no expert here, but that is my general assessment of suffering for characters
 
Isn't the main reason of suffering to build character or an audience's emotion for a character? It's pretty cliche. You can have at character that canonically suffers a lot and either not change or the general audience not have emotions not tied onto a character. That's how you can still get a mary sue or gary stu even if you give trauma

I know I'm no expert here, but that is my general assessment of suffering for characters
Yeah, pretty much.
 
There must be a good reason for tragedies if that's the central theme of your work.
I didn't see this, and I absolutely agree with you.

I'll admit that being autistic makes it inherently more tedious for me to comprehend and express my emotions, especially when it comes to adding tragedy to my character. But I try to make it so that if my character goes through anything, it has a purpose to it and it isn't thrown in for the sake of a cheap moment of emotion. Plus, I add in light hearted moments to ensure that it's not all doom and gloom, you know?
 
I didn't see this, and I absolutely agree with you.

I'll admit that being autistic makes it inherently more tedious for me to comprehend and express my emotions, especially when it comes to adding tragedy to my character. But I try to make it so that if my character goes through anything, it has a purpose to it and it isn't thrown in for the sake of a cheap moment of emotion. Plus, I add in light hearted moments to ensure that it's not all doom and gloom, you know?
Totally get it, dude. I have trouble writing emotions too. The reason why I don't write romance...
 
Totally get it, dude. I have trouble writing emotions too. The reason why I don't write romance...
That's why, at the moment, my OC's only form of tragedy is that he's the son of Nyarlathotep. See my headcanon is that due to how evil and malicious Nyarlathotep is, both in Lovecraft's original and the expanded universe, it causes any of his children to be born with the same malice and chaos. But my character is stuck in this middle ground where he wants to act human, but his eldritch half occasionally makes him go through moments of insanity and become extremely vicious.

So it's one of those moments of nature vs nurture, where my OC struggles with accepting his inherent abilities without his humanity being consumed in the process.
 
That's why, at the moment, my OC's only form of tragedy is that he's the son of Nyarlathotep. See my headcanon is that due to how evil and malicious Nyarlathotep is, both in Lovecraft's original and the expanded universe, it causes any of his children to be born with the same malice and chaos. But my character is stuck in this middle ground where he wants to act human, but his eldritch half occasionally makes him go through moments of insanity and become extremely vicious.

So it's one of those moments of nature vs nurture, where my OC struggles with accepting his inherent abilities without his humanity being consumed in the process.
Dexter Morgan... Sorry, just got reminded of him.
 
How much suffering do you think is too much suffering for the main character? (What I said doesn't even make sense, now that I look at it)
As with most writing advice, I think it just depends on the intentionality of your work—the reason you are writing a story with such a protagonist—and how conducive the protagonist's experiences are to exploring or inspecting that initial motivation, at least insofar as you can reasonably justify including it to begin with. When I am writing a character, I never consciously think about how "traumatized" I should make them, as if that is even some measurable element of one's personality. I am only thinking who they are, who they were, and who they will or want to become, and anything that happens to them across the entire narrative, traumatic or not, are liminal experiences which delivers them from one state to another. (Though, even this method of thinking is a little too modal for my tastes, as it implies people can be reduced to particular, static states from different points in time, and I'm honestly trying to restructure my thinking in that regard, but that's another conversation.)
 
I meant genuine writer's works. Those OC creators are mostly weird... Most OCs are either sexually abused, have been tortured for life, or have all of their family members killed. I sometimes think they do it simply for the virtue of doing it.
Being real, every character in any story is just the OC of their creator, so there's no "genuine" or "not genuine" writing.
 
Being real, every character in any story is just the OC of their creator, so there's no "genuine" or "not genuine" writing.
I don't mean it that way. There is a big difference between someone who writes simply to show how cool or tragic their character is, and someone who understands how to develop a character through different stages of their work.

The OCs I have mostly seen simply suffer for just the sake of suffering. They never show how they overcome it, simply forgetting that they ever suffered. Look at some of the Deku fanfics, they are the bane of my existence 💀💀
 
Id still consider that to be genuine writing, but agreeably very bad writing lol. Dunno why people have such a boner for suffering.
 
Id still consider that to be genuine writing, but agreeably very bad writing lol. Dunno why people have such a boner for suffering.
Narratively and psychologically speaking, I think it's because we, the audience, have this instructive expectation to see a character who is suffering to overcome said suffering and find happiness as a reward for getting past it. But in bad writing, specifically anything involving fanfiction, there's this stigma involved where characters tend to suffer not for the sake of personal development or for the sake of the plot but for the sake of suffering itself.

I think an example that was brought up already in this thread was Spider-Man over the last several years, that's an example of a character suffering for no meaningful reason.
 
Narratively and psychologically speaking, I think it's because we, the audience, have this instructive expectation to see a character who is suffering to overcome said suffering and find happiness as a reward for getting past it. But in bad writing, specifically anything involving fanfiction, there's this stigma involved where characters tend to suffer not for the sake of personal development or for the sake of the plot but for the sake of suffering itself.

I think an example that was brought up already in this thread was Spider-Man over the last several years, that's an example of a character suffering for no meaningful reason.
While that is true, I think it's also important to understand that this dichotomy of "good writing which subjects its characters to suffering to some greater end" and "bad writing which forces its characters to no purpose" doesn't really exist. Those who suffer do not owe anyone, especially an audience, growth. Maus by Art Spiegelman, while obviously a retelling of actual history, depicts suffering in a meaningful and deliberate way, without having its "characters" necessarily become better off of that alone.
 
While that is true, I think it's also important to understand that this dichotomy of "good writing which subjects its characters to suffering to some greater end" and "bad writing which forces its characters to no purpose" doesn't really exist. Those who suffer do not owe anyone, especially an audience, growth. Maus by Art Spiegelman, while obviously a retelling of actual history, depicts suffering in a meaningful and deliberate way, without having its "characters" necessarily become better off of that alone.
Yeah I totally get that, I mean I'm a fan of HP Lovecraft so I know not all stories are going to end with characters overcoming their suffering/tragedies, but I'm more so referring to the psychological aspect of how humans perceive tragedy.

It's one of the reasons why people become so emotional and upset over endings where the main character doesn't win or overcomes the adversaries in front of them, because I think most humans have been preprogrammed with the idea that any character is titled to a happy ending and that anything which goes against that is an injustice.
 
Akame Ga Kill... Absolute Cinema. I tell you.
Ugh, Akame Ga Kill...I think AGK should be an example used in literary classes to teach students what well written tragedy is and what horribly written tragedy is.

Like, I understand that AGK is suppose to be a story that says anyone can die at any moment and not everyone can make it to the end and all that shit. But every time a character died, it felt less like a tragic moment in the story and more like a cheap way to invoke emotion by killing off a character people liked.
 
Ugh, Akame Ga Kill...I think AGK should be an example used in literary classes to teach students what well written tragedy is and what horribly written tragedy is.

Like, I understand that AGK is suppose to be a story that says anyone can die at any moment and not everyone can make it to the end and all that shit. But every time a character died, it felt less like a tragic moment in the story and more like a cheap way to invoke emotion by killing off a character people liked.
It was my first anime after three years.. wasn't expecting the end. And the first anime movie I watched (except for Doraemon) was 5cm per second. Came for the romance, got an heartache instead. 10/10.
 
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