• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

World of Darkness, an Unasked for Sequel

Udlmaster

They/Them
Messages
6,933
Reaction score
2,147
You know what time it is, THAT'S RIGHT. WOD REVISION TIME BBY


Introduction:

I can't keep getting away with it. Each new revision and WoD just gets bigger, crazy that. 3 more years of research since the last thread and barely anything has changed except the way we interpret things.

The Changes:

Functionally, there will be no additional changes to the Powers and abilities of the current profiles, we'll get around to fixing those soon(TM). Some profiles will be reworked once this has passed, but that will be shown at another time, for now, let's focus on the revision.

The Tapestry:

We've found quite a lot since last time, and with those new additions, the Tapestry as a whole now constitutes 1-A+;
The Infinite Tapestry

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Guide to the Traditions

ㅤ  "Reality is the sum total of everything. Reality is all that exists, has existed, or will exist. Reality lacks boundaries. Reality includes that which is possible but does not exist, for if a thing can be conceived then it is already a thing. Reality includes the absence of a thing, for nothing is, in and of itself, something. By extension, Reality includes that which isn't possible.
This seems pretty self-explanatory. Reality is the basic instance from which everything derives, or perhaps the container in which everything resides. Everything is a subset of reality: you, me, this computer, the toast I had this morning, the Yankees, cancer, love, Cryptonomicon, Madagascar, and even the bee that stung my thumb when I was a kid.
   This definition seems to remove the concept of time from the equation. Upon consideration this simplifies the definition immensely. Simply put, if something can exist (or might have once existed), then it is a part of reality. This leaves room for possibility – what might exist if the future is variable, or what will exist if it isn't. Simultaneously, all of the possibilities from times past are accounted for, as opposed to "what actually happened” being the only thing that is real. For example, it was once possible that I die in a boating accident at the age of nine. I didn't, yet that still doesn't invalidate the possibility that I could have.
   The reality of something that is absent makes sense. I think you're saying that if something could exist in reality at large if it were ever conceived of, but for whatever reason isn't, then there is a “placeholder" that exists for that thing – sort of a cosmic "null set” identifier. Even if all of reality occurs without that particular thing ever existing, there's still the null state placeholder for that thing: your fire-breathing cows, cars that on Jell-o, and so on.
   Coupled with the concept of infinity, there must be an infinite number of null-sets as well. In English, there's no way that reality can ever "fill up."
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Tapestry contains everything, anything that has been thought of is contained within it. This takes into account null sets and the pure non-existence that follows/measures it. See Platonic Realm for more:
Guide to the Traditions

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]
[td]
~ Guide to the Traditions, Page 47

[/td]​


  • All that is Real is in the Tapestry, yet is not more Real than the Tellurian. It is the expression of "Everything" and its (inter)connections/dependencies.
Mage The Ascension (20th Anniversary Edition)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Tapestry is the face of "Infinity", and encompasses everything that "is".
Lore of the Clans

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


   Where the Mahaparisatya focused on the jati hierarchy and interactions between vampires, the lessons of the Saṃsāra concentrate one's ethics toward a somewhat more spiritual viewpoint. The Path of Paradox evolves even as we must evolve, so that we might learn to see through the conflicting truths of this world.
   One of the most critical doctrines of the Path of Paradox asks the student to discover the inherent inconsistencies and enigmas of the world and accept them; finding meaning in the contradiction of two truths. The law of contradiction states that two antithetical propositions cannot both be true and that nothing which is true can be contradictory with any other truth. This is logic, and mortal philosophers have often stated that to deny this belief is to deny all truth. Yet it is within these paradoxes that the illusions of the physical world are revealed. Once you accept that such conflicts exist, what is the purpose of any truth?
   The word "paradox" means "beyond belief" in the original Greek, and the scholar Aristotle relied heavily on the rejection of paradoxes to base logic. Yet Ravnos know illusions can exist, and that some things can be both false and true. The ability to know and not know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, and to reject morality while still claiming an adherence to ethics, is the heart of the path. Only those whose minds and spirits grasp those elusive truths can spiritually ascend and see through the falsehoods of this world.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Akashic Brotherhood (1994)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Tapestry has infinite superior layers of existence. These layers become less and less grounded in nature as all "things" in existence no longer have any materialistic composition to their forms, just the pure/true essence of their being. This includes the very principles and foundations of the law of non-contradiction, breaking it apart and disregarding it entirely.

The Umbra:

The Realm of Ghosts, Spirits and other Spiritual undesirables, the Umbra has been vastly expanded upon and while it's no longer the big 0 it used to be, it has climbed it's way back to being High 1-A
Umbra: The Velvet Shadow 1999

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


The Low Umbra

Beyond the Barriers (The Book of Worlds)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Wraith the Oblivion (2nd Edition 1996)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Wraith the Oblivion (20th Anniversary Edition)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Low Umbra encompasses all afterlives humanity has/can ever dreamed of within layers upon layers upon layers upon layers endlessly (with each layer growing in all possible facets than the last whether it's scale, complexity or superiority), every (im)possible underworld and even heaven in philosophies and beliefs are contained within the Low Umbra, no matter how transcendental they are to each other. Eventually the distinction between each one breaks down entirely as it completely surpasses all forms of comprehension.

The Shadowlands

Wraith the Oblivion (2nd Edition 1996)

   The stillborn twin of the lands of the living, the Shadowlands correspond exactly to the Skinlands in terms of geography. A wraith standing in Times Square in the Shadowlands is, in a sense, standing in Times Square in the Skinlands, and runs the risk of being trampled by mortals who don't see him and rush right over his position.
   Everything that exists in the Skinlands exists in the Shadowlands, more or less. The more emotion an object or a place inspired in the living lands, the more concretely it appears in the Deadlands, and buildings long gone in the Skinlands still rise on the other side of the Shroud. At once beautiful and terrible, the landscape of the Shadowlands is constructed of memories draped like cobwebs over those places, which yet stand in living lands.
   Objects in the Shadowlands are irreducibly solid to a wraith, but things in the Skinlands are less so. A wall may initially pen a wraith into a room. But by expending a minimum of corpus she can walk right through it. A wraith may be able to reach out to a paperweight or a pencil, but without the use of her Arcanoi she cannot touch it. It is only the Shadowland echoes of these things, once they are destroyed, that a wraith can affect directly.
   What goes on in the Skinlands is plainly visible to wraiths in the Shadowlands. They can watch TV or eavesdrop on board meetings with ease, invisible and intangible. However, these perceptions of the Skinlands are often marred by the touch of death, as wraiths see the creeping decay in all things. Still, even the most Oblivion-tainted among the living appear healthier and more vital than the lands beyond the Shroud, which are gray and somber with rotting majesty.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Shadowlands is the closest Low Umbral realm to the Skinlands (more commonly known as the Tapestry). It is the corresponding reflection of the mundane world and all its empathic factors and memories.

The Tempest

Wraith the Oblivion (2nd Edition 1996)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Wraith the Oblivion (The Sea of Shadows)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


The Dark Kingdoms

Oblivion (Mind's Eye Theatre)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]
[td]
~ Oblivion (Mind's Eye Theatre), Page 15

[/td]​


The Labyrinth and the "Void"

Orpheus (End Game)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Labyrinth is an infinite and eternal... labyrinth of everyone's worst fears and sufferings. It is without any form of "constant", ever-changing with no fashion of charting available at any time.
Mage The Ascension (20th Anniversary Edition)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Void[Note 1] is at the very center of celestial existence and mortality being the Low Umbra. A unification of unfathomable horror and nothingness but also the beacon of renewel and rebirth where new lives is given (non)form into mundane reality, the Tapestry.

Middle Umbra

Dream Zone

Umbra: The Velvet Shadow

   The Dream Zone is one of the greatest domains, a realm unto itself formed by the collective dreams of humans and shapeshifters. It is a place wherein archetypes rise as real as solid earth in the waking world, where symbolism is more real than any literal meanings. On the periphery of Near Umbra and Deep Umbra, the Dream Zone lies outside the reach of Moon Bridges and even the Pattern Web. If any Spirit Gates reach the Zone they were long ago lost to the Garou Nation. The simplest way for a shapeshifter to reach the Dream Zone is to fall asleep within the Penumbra. Her slumbering mind reaches through the mist of thought and into Dream itself. The realm reflects the dreamer's own dreams, of course, but so much more than that. She can press on, journeying deeper into the dreams of others and their mysteries. One of the most intimate bonds between packmates is to venture within each other's dreams.
   Deeper still are the most primal archetypes of Dream and all it contains: love, death, flying free, falling and drowning, blood and fire — anything that recurs in the minds of dreaming creatures. The facets embodied through Dream have no limits, and even defy the laws of the rest of the spirit world. Anything dreamed by living things since the very first creature to draw breath appears within the Dream Zone.
   Within the Dream Zone, anything is possible, if a visitor can dream it. The tales of great heroes who would challenge the impossible for love, glory and honor are as powerful an archetypal facet as anything that ever entered into Dream.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The possibilities of accomplishments that anyone can achieve are as vast as what they can imagine themselves. One can challenge the literal impossible for valour and glory and shall succeed.

Near Dreaming

Dreams and Nightmares

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Beyond the Barriers (The Book of Worlds)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


Far Dreaming

Dreams and Nightmares

   The Dreaming changes the deeper you go beyond its borders. As the influence of humanity's consciousness fades, as the more powerful dreams present themselves, the Dreaming becomes more irreal. The Dream Realm called the Far Dreaming no longer holds any reflection of the Flesh World and surrenders instead to the endless possibilities of the imagination. The Far Dreaming is undiluted by banal influences, though it, too, is created by mortal dreams.
   The Far Dreaming is home to many of the collective dreams of humans. There are even more Stable Points here than in the Near Dreaming, and they change less often than the structures and shapes of those dreams closest to the human heart.
   The Far Dreaming is less fragmented by the Shattering than the Near Dreaming. The bubbles of Dream stuff that forge the Dream Realms here are larger and often more ponderous, less volatile. Although the trods are less frequent here, they still occur and still breathe life into the ever-changing reality of the Dreaming.
   The Far Dreaming is closer to the true power of dreams, older and far more established than the Near Dreaming. Most of the ideas within this region are hundreds or even thousands of years old, established in the time before the Shattering, when anything was still possible. The chimera of the Far Dreaming are more likely to be dragons and manticores than simple images of lost loves and bullies who terrorised us when we were young. The Dream Realms truly hold a part of the Mythic Age within them and still have the strength to alter changelings who journey into their depths.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


Deep Dreaming

Dreams and Nightmares

   One can no more properly describe the landscape of the Deep Dreaming than one can explain the texture of a rainbow. The Deep Dreaming is the very heart and soul of the Twilight Realm, the very essence of Glamour and the center of faerie power. Within its endless borders lies Arcadia, where the true fae still dwell.
   Beyond the farthest reaches of imagination, on the steppes of fear, there are dark places where the Thallain gather to discuss how best to topple Arcadia. Within the depths of the ocean, Atlantis still stirs, and her denizens ponder what must lie beyond the shimmering edges of the great waters, in the place where people somehow manage to breathe air and live. In another part of the ocean, Ryūjin, the Palace of the Dragon King, hides its secrets from all who would enter. Surrounded by the Palaces of Summer, Winter, Autumn and Spring and connected to them all by the Hall of Seasons, far beyond the Wastelands, where the trees resemble toadstools and the ground swallows whole the foolhardy, the Pool of Counted Sorrows tells its secrets to Kithain who dare to listen... All these places, and more, are in the Deep Dreaming, lost in an endless cyclone of miasmic colors and chimerical legends. They await anyone brave enough to find them and determined enough to survive the search. The trods to most of these places are locked, lost, or broken. Here, the chimera rule.
   The Deep Dreaming is the purest, most primal place changelings know. Mysteries and riddles of every imaginable sort await the proper answers, and puzzles long solved find new ways to hide their secrets. The Silver Path is a faint memory in most of the Deep Dreaming, but the land is solid enough to hold a changeling walking here, just the same. There are no true boundaries to the Deep Dreaming. Every border exists there only for the present, until the time comes for new additions to build themselves. The Mythic World is strongest in this place, and the greatest legends of all dwell here, protected by the dreams of mortals who believe, only in their waking hours, that they've forgotten the days of giants. Mortals sleep and the Deep Dreaming is renewed in an endless cycle of change. Few places remain "in place," though many exist eternally.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Dreamings are the entirety of the dreams of mankind and likely other sentient life. All contents and perceivability ever imaginable are present. The farther you go into the Dreamings, the deeper and primal archetypes of dreams within dreams within dreams appear.

The High Umbra

The Infinite Tapestry

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


Vulgate

The Infinite Tapestry

   The astral region adjacent to the Penumbra is known as the Vulgate, or common area, where the most widely held notions of reality directly reflect the physical realm. Medieval Hermetics knew it as the Mundus Imaginalis, or "world of images". To students of the Qabala, this is Yesod, the ninth sephira on the Tree of Life; the Ahl-i-Batin call it the "alam al-mithal", or Realm of Similitudes, in which the transcendent Unity becomes immanent in phenomenal diversity and takes on the forms that ultimately manifest in physical reality. The Vulgate looks and feels much like the physical world, with the same sense of solidity and immediacy.
   The Vulgate is comprised of the collective thoughts of humanity, not only the rational intellectual constructs of the intelligentsia, but the gossip of housewives, the prejudices of barroom philosophers, the daydreams of children and every passing whimsy that does not actually belong in the Dream Realms themselves. Whether human thought creates the Vulgate (and, by extension, all of Astral Space) or the thoughts of humans are simply the result of ideas that filter down through the Vulgate has long been a key point of conflict in the Ascension War. The Technocratic paradigm favors the former view, treating Astral Space as simply a consensual hallucination shared by interacting intellects, enjoying an illusion of permanence as ideas are handed down through the ages to successive generations. Traditional paradigms tend toward something closer to the latter view, sometimes even granting the Vulgate and the Epiphamies respectively lower and higher places in the hierarchical tiers of their ontological philosophies. Regardless of which view one takes, it is clear that actions in the Vulgate closely mirror the mental life of the physical world. Most of the Vulgate's economy is based upon the flow of information rather than actual resources, but this is not always apparent to the casual observer since information can usually appear as an object or substance in Astral Space. However, even a newcomer can easily see that Vulgatic cities are clearly dominated by their libraries, universities, bookstores and temples.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Vulgate, also known as Yesod by the Qabalans, is one of the "lowest" realms within the High Umbra. It incorporates the most easiest accessible concepts that the collective philosophy and mindsets of humanity and even other sentient species has thought of. It acts as a doorway to the micro-realms and domains that incorporate and interact with the simplest mental concepts (such as learning, the thought of the sky, etc.). That being said, these concepts being simple does not exclude them being inherently transcendent to the existential planes.

The Spires

Beyond the Barriers (The Book of Worlds)

   As the Vulgate grows more abstract, sharply defined structures interrupt the view. Called the Spires by most, they appear as ridges, mountains or towers originating in the Vulgate, ascending so high into the Astral Umbra that their peaks cannot be seen from below. The Courts, heavens, hells and such are built on, in or as part of, the Spires. The coarsest elements, fire and brimstone, harps and fluffy clouds) sit low on the Spires ー nearly in the Vulgate. The Epiphamies drift around the peaks and beyond. Those who would reach the Courts must travel through the Spires.
   Cosmologists theorize that the Spires are the result of many minds of various sophistication all concentrating on the same idea. A medieval European farmer, for example, would have a very different concept of Heaven than Mark Twain, but the two men's visions would still build on the same foundation. A great many fictional places ー the Mythic Realms described in Chapter Two ー intersect with the Spires along the "border" between the Vulgate and the Courts. In the Eastern Court Realm, for example, Chinese folklore, Hong Kong films and the Umbrood Heavens blend together almost indistinguishably. From one Astral Court, a traveler can reach into related Mythic Realms, and vice versa.
   To climb the Spires, envision yourself doing so; to your mind, it'll appear that you're wandering through a series of caverns, halls and stairs leading ever upward. Flying or floating is possible if you know how. Remember, this is a metaphysical trip, not a physical one. The Spires simply represent an ascending state of consciousness. There is, as I've said, an upper limit to this climb; physical and spiritual travelers freeze solid or fade away before they reach the Courts; only those of sound mind can go further, unless the explorer crosses through some portal linking the Realm to the Earth. According to the stories I've heard, people killed in the Spires wander between Realms forever, denied access to any of them. In other words, be careful!
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Mage The Ascension (20th Anniversary Edition)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

The Infinite Tapestry

   A Spire is an unusually tall and steep mountain, usually craggy and forbidding, of the sort generally seen in cartoons and fantasy-genre illustrations. They dot the landscape of the Vulgate; nearly every branch of the River delta either contains one or shares one with its neighboring branches, and the older branches may have several apiece. This often gives the impression that any given cultural pantheon, or High Court, resides solely or primarily on the Spire nearest the branch representing the culture that worshipped them; this is usually the case, but not always, especially along the modern coastal regions. Here they may have more unnatural appearances: tall stacks of hewn rock, towers of polished machine-tooled metal and even pinnacles of cut or blown glass sometimes rise from amid the cities on the shoreline. To contact the old pagan gods, though, it is generally best to travel inland and listen for where the River sounds like the language in which the gods first found their names. Among literate cultures there will be an array of glaciers around the base of the Spire embodying the sacred texts — especially those lost to history — describing the pantheon. Those we best remember and study in the modern day may also lie among foothills where the echoes of their respective Mythic Ages still sound, and where spirits act out the well-known legends. Let the astral traveler beware, for the monsters of these myths may yet live on in the caves and crevasses of many a Spire.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Spires are the ever-transcending realms connecting realms of the Vulgate. They are the result of many minds concentrating on the same notion, causing it to be elevated from the Vulgate into the higher realms. In order to climb throughout the Spires, one must meta-physically ascend themselves to a higher-self.

Platonic Realm

Void Engineers (Revised)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]
[td]
~ Void Engineers (Revised), Page 54

[/td]​


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]
[td]
~ Void Engineers (Revised), Page 56

[/td]​


  • Many (non)existing realms among them would be the Ultimate Ensemble and Set Theory, with it encompassing all form of complexities including dimensions and cardinalities which even includes Absolute Infinity.
Paradigm Explored: Number and Shape

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]
[td]
~ Paradigm Explored: Number and Shape, Page 26

[/td]​


  • The Manifold Mountain showcases the never-ending hierarchy of mathematics and its effects gradually becoming more complex and grand. From 0-dimensional points to lines, planes, spheres to higher and higher and higher dimensional properties.
   "Visitors find the Toposes are particularly good for helping them solve puzzles. As alternate logics, they are able to produce strange and unexpected solutions to problems, exploiting information that seems disconnected but placing some sort of logical chain between them. They can provide training in Enigmas (even allowing characters to reach the sixth dot of it) as well as the mathematical Abilities of Science and Academics. All they want in exchange is Sleeper attention. The smallest of them especially will give quite a bit to have the visitors return to Earth and write a research paper studying their structures and promoting them as interesting environments in which to do mathematics. Especially if they can do so in a way that makes them look better than Set Theory.
    Each of them represents an alternate system of logic capable of handling a complex system of mathematics, albeit one that differs from the standard one in either subtle or obvious ways. As such, though they look largely human, each of them will have something about them that is... off. Extra limbs, strange coloration, or being entirely flat are all variations that have been reported. Each is unique, and all of them are rivals, though more similar ones will get along better and have appearances that reflect their similarities.
   Visitors find the Toposes are particularly good for helping them solve puzzles. As alternate logics, they are able to produce strange and unexpected solutions to problems, exploiting information that seems disconnected but placing some sort of logical chain between them. They can provide training in Enigmas (even allowing characters to reach the sixth dot of it) as well as the mathematical Abilities of Science and Academics. All they want in exchange is Sleeper attention. The smallest of them especially will give quite a bit to have the visitors return to Earth and write a research paper studying their structures and promoting them as interesting environments in which to do mathematics. Especially if they can do so in a way that makes them look better than Set Theory.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]
[td]
~ Paradigm Explored: Number and Shape, Page 28

[/td]​


  • The Toposes are denizens (beings/entities) of the Platonic Realm representing the very nature of the mathematical concepts themselves with them also representing all alternate systems of logistics and calculations alongside their influence within reality. They may even be in a way greater than all of Set Theory itself, the very scaffolding of all mathematical logic and (sub)set hierarchies.

The Epiphamies

The Infinite Tapestry

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Epiphamies are more than just spaces or structures but rather the interconnected states of memories and beliefs themselves. All comprehensibility of the collective consciousness is confined within the Epiphamies.
Beyond the Barriers (The Book of Worlds)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Epiphamies are at the very summit of the Spires and their infinite abstractive hierarchies. They embody complete abstractions and symbologies. They are utterly subjective in qualities and properties, not one individual can see them the same way.

Additional Information

Additionally, the Epiphamies are the very pinnacle of conceivable imagination. They are as boundless as whatever the consciousness can ever create or subject themselves to.

   Swirling around the highest reaches of consciousness, the Realms within the Epiphamies are realms in name only. These regions are too abstract and ephemeral to feel much like our crude constructs of reality. Composed of symbols and superluminal concepts, these regions drift in and out of contact. For the astral traveler, Ephiphamy Realms remain solid for a few fleeting moments. Such mysteries are too transcendent for a mortal mind to grasp for long.
   Astral travel is the only way to reach such regions. Sleeping or inspired mortals can flash into the Epiphamies for brief seconds, but those visitors quickly fade out of that space, hopefully with memories of the visit to guide them through their imperfect lives. Even astral travelers can remain there for only a short time. It's a place where the ground literally shifts under your feet... except that there's no actual ground or feet involved!
   Imagine the love-child of Salvador Dali and Dr. Seuss. Now imagine it as a world. And now imagine that it exists because you imagined it. That's the nature of the Ephiphamies. Fleeting concepts get smaller worlds, whereas lasting concepts, backed by millions of minds over hundreds of years, have massive regions with something approaching a stable nature. Within the Epiphamies, you might find a Fortress of Government that represents the symbolic might and futility of that concept; a River of Language that flows with the sounds of every dialect ever spoken on Earth; a titanic chiming clock with a thousand hands, each one marking some measure of Time; the realm of Platonic ideals, which exists perhaps only because Plato imagined that it might. There are tortured halls of Art and mindscapes so bizarre that Dali himself might have been amazed by them. You'll find realms based upon not only our popular images of holidays (though those exist as well) but around the very ideas those holidays represent. In short, the Epiphamies are as boundless as imagined consciousness itself.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


The Etherspace

The Infinite Tapestry

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Mage The Ascension (20th Anniversary Edition)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Etherspace reaches unfathomably beyond all preceding realms and structures in every single facet. Within it are the nine worlds corresponding to the nine spheres separated by Horizons which act as barriers even more potent than the Guantlet shielding the Umbra from the infinite mundane reality.

Horizon (Realms)

Mage The Ascension (20th Anniversary Edition)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


Shard Realms

The Infinite Tapestry

   This introduction from the cosmological documents of a noted Hermetic is typical of a common view of the cosmos. It's as good an explanation as anything else. No one can thoroughly document all the realms and extra dimensions beyond the First Horizon. If we need an anchor for our extra-dimensional epistemology, it might as well be the nine Shard Realms.
   The Shard Realms reflect the sun, the moon, and the nine planets of our solar system. Experience verifies that in each realm, one of the Nine Spheres is dominant. It is as though the very character of the realm and the planet reflects the essence of that Sphere. Acts of magic associated with that Sphere are often easier to perform there, and usually remark-ably coincidental. According to some accounts, simple acts of willworking hold great power in such realms. A breath of wind that lifts a feather in the physical world may move a mountain in a realm dominated by Forces, at least if the theorists are correct.
   At one time, the Shard Realms were accessible from Shade Realms on the Horizon. Each Shard Realm cast a "reflection" on the Horizon in the form of a Shade Realm, which could act as a portal to that distant planet. Since the Avatar Storm, these former portals have become treacherous, dangerous, distant, or misleading. Each one resembles the "spiritual landscape" of its respective planet in some way, but the Umbral winds have altered them. Powerful spirits are needed to find them, and sometimes the spirits themselves must be sacrificed to the winds before a traveler can escape beyond the Horizon.
   Old-fashioned loremasters have the disturbing habit of referring to the various planets by the names of their Shade Realms. For instance, a Hermetic referring to Jupiter may choose to call it the Shade Realm of Matter instead. Instead of speaking of the Shade Realm of Matter, it's much easier to simply describe it as the Matter Realm. Technocrats are vilified for just calling a planet a planet, but that's the easiest label to use.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Mage The Ascension (20th Anniversary Edition)

   Genesis stories both secular and sacred allude to a Big Bang that birthed the universe. According to certain cosmologies, the Shard Realms - which we now know as the planets of our solar system - were especially significant chunks of metaphysical debris. Reflecting mystic principles, these Fragmenti were considered the realms of ancient gods: Jupiter, Mars, Mercury, and so forth. We can see their influence in the everyday puzzles of astrology and the corresponding zodiac, through which we are "children of Mars" or "littered under Mercury."
   To Otherworldly travelers, the planets are enigmas of the scientific revolution. According to the archives of Etherite explorers, those planets were, until recently, worlds unto themselves, with workable atmospheres and indigenous life. Now, though, the cold hand of Technocratic wisdom has reduced these worlds to spinning protoplasmic cauldrons and icy stone. Certain Etherites suggest that the only things standing between Earth's wonders and a similar fate are the mages who refuse to let such things happen. I don't know how true that is, but the idea is worth considering.
   Whether or not the fabled adventures on Mercury and Mars actually took place on the planets themselves or within their Umbral Shade Realm reflections, it is a matter of record that modern-day mages occasionally travel further than Earthly scientists would have us believe. These days, the Shards are more or less "dead" by human estimations; if the great god Mars still makes his home on that red ball of rock, he's hiding his presence well. Still, the Etherites and Void Engineers send spaceships to the various planets and their moons, occasionally finding ruined Skyriggers and other mysteries on those planetary surfaces. Although the more obvious magickal phenomena seem restricted to the Shade Realms... at least for now... there has clearly been more mystic history throughout our solar system than the average person would possibly believe.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Shard Realms are the complete manifestations and embodiments of the Quintessential Spheres, which have their own Umbral reflections and abstract hierarchies.

Deep Umbra

The Infinite Tapestry

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Laws of the Wild (Revised)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Umbra: The Velvet Shadow

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Werewolf The Apocalypse (20th Anniversary Edition)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Deep Umbra is deep space, stretching out past all forms of infinity in every direction. Here, there is absolute nothingness within this sub-void however there are dynamic realms including the Outer Planets (Shard Realms) drifting along the black sea of space endlessly.

The Tellurian:

Capital E everything until it's not, the Tellurian has as much of everything as the Umbra and Tapestry can hold together, as it is the whole of both of them, as such, containing all Impossibility, possibility, pure metaphors and so on, the Tellurian is High 1-A+;

Demon the Fallen (Core)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


   "In the uncorrupted world, this coffee could also exist simultaneously as a song or an aesthetic idea or even a sentient and helpful creature. Different things on different layers, all equally real, all similar, but each discrete ー even while they were simultaneously experienced." Seeing Matthew's expression, he continued.
   "I'll give you a more relevant example. The first people: Were they Adam and Eve, a woman and a man, or were they the evolved descendents of apes?"
   "They were a woman and a man, as the Bible says." "Correct. But they were also a multitude of ape descendants. The universe was made in seven days, on one level, but that same span of time was billions of years on another level. "Or consider the Angels of the Firmament. On some levels of reality they were conveying the life-giving breath of the Maker on a purely scientific level — they were, literally were, the process by which solar energy striking simple carbon molecules agitated them into forms of ever increasing complexity, until they became organic molecules, then primitive single-celled animals, then nucleated cells and so on, up to and including dogs, cats and humans. But at the same time they were crouching over the mouths of newly sculpted creatures of all types, breathing into their mouths to animate them." "Are you talking about metaphor?" Gaviel chuckled. "Not yet, no. These contrary things really were simultaneously true in the young cosmos. It makes no sense to you because you're used to living in this, the singular world. But once you accept the idea of the multiple world, it clears up a lot of the problems you humans have with faith, miracles, the Divine Architect—... "Can an omnipotent being create a boulder so big he can't lift it?"
   "I'm not trying to attack anything, just demonstrate a point. If God can create the boulder so big He can't lift it, then His power isn't infinite: It's not sufficient to lift the boulder. But if He can't make a boulder too big to lift, than His power is still not infinite; It's not sufficient to create the boulder. That's the kind of problems you run into in the singular world. But the multiple world resolves those paradoxes."
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • There are "infinite", (il)logical-possible worlds of Reality, subsets of possibility that also takes into account null-sets within the Tapestry that never were, yet are. Even with the omnipotence paradox, with the multiple worlds it "resolves" those "problems".
Mage The Ascension (20th Anniversary Edition)

   "Tellurian" essentially means everything. It's Reality with a capital R – everything that has been imagined, can be imagined, or has yet to be imagined. It's a word for something that transcends words… an ineffable name of God, if you will.
   Why would the names of God or Infinity be unspeakable? The reason many religions forbid speaking the names of their God is because those religions consider Divinity to be beyond definition; to name it is to limit it… and thus, to insult it. Giving Divinity a name is to literally profane it – "to put yourself before the temple", or to place yourself above Divinity. And so, if you think of Infinity in Divine terms, the name Tellurian, or "little earth," offers an affectionate metaphor in place of that unspeakable name.
   In academic terms, a tellurian is a model that demonstrates how the world works; following the ancient principle of macrocosm and microcosm, or "As above, so below," a tellurian reveals how the world works by offering a "small" demonstration. And although many mages in our era remain agnostic or atheistic, the mages who put the cosmic Tellurian metaphor in place were men and women of faith, so that metaphor was important… especially when they were trying to bridge faiths without insulting anyone's ideas about God.
   Tellurian is another way of saying Infinity, God, or Possibility. It's potential that cannot be grasped except through metaphor. So when you say "the Tellurian," you're literally saying "Everything."
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • The Tellurian is absolutely everything that ever was, is and ever will be as well as all that is/can-(not) be imagined. It completely transcends words and descriptions for its sheer magnitude.
Mage The Ascension (Second Edition)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • Hopes, dreams, goals both natural and supernatural, possible and impossible are with the Tellurian. All understandings and forms of thought throughout all possible worlds that was, is and can be are the Tellurian.

The Consensus Hierarchy:

If this is all within the scope of Human, Superhuman and Inhuman understanding, then imagine what the Gods could think of! Well, the world we've just discussed is nothing more than a product of the God's understanding, building their own Consensus Hierarchy, the world we know is merely a lesser understanding held by Mages, and below even that is you and I, ordinary humans.

This layered existence of Gods consensus is Turtles all the way down, and as such is High 1-A+ (Type 1);


Mage The Ascension (20th Anniversary Edition)

More of a belief system than a specific practice, Gnosticism refers to an overall view that the Creation we perceive as reality is actually the construct of some corrupt or malevolent force. To escape the prison of this fallen reality, a Gnostic seeks wisdom and knowledge (gnosis) that will lead to eventual transcendence.

This concept of an inferior Creation ruled over by malignant "alien forces" or a "lord of this world" can be found everywhere from The Matrix or David Icke’s "reptilian" conspiracy theories to many forms of Christianity or the more dour strains of pre-Christian Pagan belief. Certain approaches to Buddhism or Hinduism could be considered Gnostic even though that word rarely gets used in reference to those faiths. Transhumanism is certainly Gnostic in its ideals of post-human existence through technology. Even certain atheist creeds have Gnostic undertones; Ayn Rand's fixation with parasitic masses and Nietzsche's obsession with the Overman cast Gnostic shadows on essentially godless philosophies.

On several levels, Mage embodies an essentially Gnostic cosmology, one in which “Sleepers” Awaken, transcend their humanity through knowledge, and potentially Ascend to a higher state. Still, many mages are not Gnostics, either because they do not see their world as innately corrupt; they refuse to believe in higher or lower powers; or they feel that everything is miraculous if and when you open your eyes enough to recognize that fact. Although Mage features certain Gnostic elements, it's more existential – in the sense that one must find meaning in existence among a meaningless and potentially hostile cosmos – than purely Gnostic in its foundations.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


   The first card of the Tarot is the Fool – that pretty boy or girl about to walk off a cliff. And yes, the Fool's androgynous, like many characters in Coleman's deck. I like to think she did that on purpose, so that folks who knew how to look past their preconceptions could see themselves, male or female, on that journey. Our Fool's got belongings slung over his or her back, with a little dog yapping right at the edge of the drop. Meanwhile, the Fool's staring off into the sky, perched on the edge between disaster and flight.
   That's us.
   We silly humans come into this world with open eyes. And then we take our first breaths and begin to close those eyes and scream. Most folks never open their eyes again after that… or when they do, they see only what they want to see. What they're told to see. Mama or Papa hold us close, or doctors smack our butts to hear us howl, and that’s as far as most people get. In Awakened circles, we call those people Sleepers. They're alive, and they dream, but their eyes are closed to the world around them.
   And then there are the folks who wander around in a daze. They can sense shapes and sounds and have some degree of control over their movements, but they’re still going through the motions like they're still asleep. Some of us call such people Sleepwalkers, but they have other names too: hedge wizards, geniuses, mad poets, dreamers, and saints. Certain Sleepwalkers wake up halfway, stuck in nightmares where they imagine themselves to be both potent and powerless. We call them the Night-Folk: vampires, changelings, the various Changing Breeds that rampage through a realm between human, animal, and god. There are hunters and hunted and lost souls of every description. None of them, though, know the secrets we are heir to. They’re mighty in their way, and deadly as hell. But they are not us, and they can never be like us.
   Because there are people who take that first breath and then wake up. We might feel sleepy for a while, but there always comes a point when just dreaming isn't enough for us.
   That's the Awakening.
   The thing that makes us what we are.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • As they cannot perceive the mystical workings of this reality, as well as what lies further beyond it, the common masses are called "Sleepers," and in contrast, Mages who actively delve into this alien world are called "the Awakened." The key difference being that, while normal people think of the physical world as primary and discard their thoughts and daydreams as secondary, Mages see the latter as part of a deeper and "truer" reality, every bit as real, if not more so, than the physical one.
[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]
[td]
~ Void Engineers, Revised – Page 55

[/td]​


  • The "illusory reality", is the Tapestry, the universe that is woven into existence out of the infinite possibilities of the Umbra by the collective belief and thoughts of the masses, containing every possible concept that their minds are capable of grasping. The Technocracy refers to this sphere of existence as "conventional space," and as seen above, the Sons of Ether think of it using the metaphor of the Walls of Troy.
Truth Beyond Paradox

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


  • Much like Mages control the Consensus of the Sleepers, so too do the Gods control the Consensus of the Mages, and just like regular humans are "asleep" to the spiritual reality which Mages experience, Mages are also "asleep" to the world which the Gods experience, and the latter to something or someone even more unfathomable. As such, the Consensus is an all-encompassing hierarchy of beliefs that form illusory realities that victim are perfectly immersed in.

The Supernal:​

Beyond the Abyss from which no intellection may penetrate, the furthermost point of all which is reflected in all things, from which is beyond naming, from which flow the manifold forms, where all things and forces of all the worlds come from and in the end to which they will return. All in One, One in All.

As this nameless, transcend place beyond even the Void, the Supernal represents the border between The Essential Divinity and everything else and as such constitutes High 1-A+ (Type 2)

Book of the Wyrm (Second Edition)

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

Chronicle of the Black Labyrinth

[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]


[td width="0.5em"][/td] [td width="0.5em"][/td]

[td width="0.5em"][/td]

The Conclusion, I hope​

For the full in-depth explanation of everything, along with scans, sources and more, see the combined blog worked on by Myself and Apotheosis69 (nice).

TL;DR, new WoD revision.

Agree:​

Setsuna_tenma, Dark_Soul20189, Da3ggman

Disagree:​

Neutral:​

 
Last edited:
Ehh, what is H1A+ Type 1 and 2?, is it referring to layers?
They're basically subsections. Cus High 1-A+ is beyond layers entirely.

Type 1 is basically an entire collection of (im)possible worlds through Modal Realism, into a Singular "Large world"

Type 2 is literally ALL possible (large) worlds. Everything

 Edit: You can talk to @VeryGoofyToddler2 or @Ultima_Reality for more clear information about it.
 
Last edited:
TL;DR, new WoD revision
Crazy TL;DR
1016772592377544794.gif
 
Not even boundless, fodder verse smh

This seems good, though I ain’t an expert on Tier 1 or anything.
 
Better, delete the verse

Anyway joke aside, from what i see (and since i'm too lazy to read scans) these proposal seem fine enough
 
I've read the blog though I have read thoroughly the first portion with the Tapestry and the Umbra. I gave up on the rest and skimmed it. I can't recall seeing something that caught my eye to defer for some anti-feats. Based on what I've read the Tapestry and Umbra rating is fine.

Given what we said about High 1-A+(type 1) I don't mind it. Though, to be precise, I have to ask if all that's rated High 1-A+(type 1) are equal correct? Since the “+” modifiers for High 1-A+ do not invoke layers regardless if they contain more worlds. So I assume those are all in the same level of existence? I don't remember what Ultima said about if one is higher than another or if that example would count as an anti-feat.

If the Supernal is the buffer zone between the Essential Divinity and everything else and it does encompass the entire hierarchy below then I agree with High 1-A+(type 2)
 
Given what we said about High 1-A+(type 1) I don't mind it. Though, to be precise, I have to ask if all that's rated High 1-A+(type 1) are equal correct? Since the “+” modifiers for High 1-A+ do not invoke layers regardless if they contain more worlds. So I assume those are all in the same level of existence? I don't remember what Ultima said about if one is higher than another or if that example would count as an anti-feat.
I'm just the scan guy for Type 1, I honestly don't get it yet, Apoth has been the translator for that for me, so I'll let him handle that.

If the Supernal is the buffer zone between the Essential Divinity and everything else and it does encompass the entire hierarchy below then I agree with High 1-A+(type 2)
Yes, all things, even the Void, Alder Bole, the Pattern Web, all of that stems from the Supernal
 
Back
Top