Why not? Sailor Moon Tier One: The Last Time

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Since the standards for time dimensions were recently clarified. I shall remake this again, as it now qualifies under the clarification:

"A higher spacetime continuum with two temporal dimensions (instead of just one) comprises a higher temporal axis that spans regular temporal dimensions that the entirety of 4-dimensional spacetimes, or equivalents to it are serviced by (This is similar to how the time dimension in a 4-dimensional spacetime continuum spans uncountably infinite 3-dimensional snapshots of the universe), qualifying it for Low 1-C"

NOTE: The clarification will be changed again: But Here is the relevant part from the new draft that will be uploaded in the FAQ:

A spacetime continuum with two time axis, instead of just one, could likewise be visualized as a line comprised of uncountably infinite points, each of which is a static "snapshot" of the entire regular timeline with 3 space and 1 time dimension. It would hence be one level of qualitative superiority above a timeline and as such baseline Low 1-C. Similarily, adding even more time dimensions would add one level of qualitative superiority each time.

The Corridor of the Spacetime Door is a location in Sailor Moon where the Door of spacetime is located. It is referred to as the corridor, as the underworld, as a spacetime, as well as a a rift. It is used to to travel to different time periods.



The corridor also serves as the framework in which all universes and spacetimes are embedded within. This is shown when Sailor Pluto confirms that the Tau Star System is a distant region in spacetime. Please note, that the Tau Star System is referred to as a cosmos, other world, and alternate dimension showing that it is spatially and temporally distinct from the main universe. Luna and Sailor Pluto also confirm the existence of a multitude of other alternate dimensions via dimensional routes, so much that Luna's computer cannot check them all.

It is confirmed that the past exists as physical location within Spacetime as Chibi-usa states that it exists on the "other side of spacetime". Couple that with the fact that, those who wander the corridor can end up getting lost in time.

In addition to embedding these separate universes, and even going so far as treating time as physical locations within it self. The corridor has its own unique portray of time. While it is stated that the corridor has no flow of time, events that occur in the past and future happen simultaneously to observers in the corridor. In order for this to occur, and to be able to embed all the different universes to the point where the times of the universes are locations, the corridor has to have it's own unique axis.

When Black Lady sends shockwaves backwards in time to attack Sailor Moon and the team, Sailor Pluto is able to warn Sailor Moon before the shockwaves hit her. This is only possible if Sailor Pluto exists outside the flow of time (as the corridor is stated to not have flow of time) and have her own frame of reference in terms of time and causality.



All these details coupled together will dictate that the entire 4D continuum of the universes exist as physical actualized locations within the corridor. A snapshot of the corridor would include entire 4D spaces inside the snapshot. The entire continuum of the corridor would include uncountably infinite snapshots of 4D space and count towards being one level of superiority over the 4D universes.

TLDR:

A single universe is rated as Low 2-C because a timeline of it will represent uncountable infinite snapshots of the 3D space it represents. The corridor should be rated as Low 1-C because all uncountable snapshots of the corridor would include the the 4D spaces of every universe embedded in it, as all time is physically presented as locations within the space.

Visual Aids:

Single snapshot of the of the Corridor:



The entire timeline of the corridor:

 

[Quantu]

There's another thread trying to change things so probably best to wait

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

There's another thread trying to change things so probably best to wait

I don't think it will be successful. But we can wait.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Well, I agree.

 

[Hasty12345]

Absolutely agree

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

I still have a few problems with this, but I should first highlight one thing.

I assume you're trying to argue that the corridor is a space in between/containing the multiverse, and it in turn has its own overarching form of time?

The corridor also serves as the framework in which all universes and spacetimes are embedded within. This is shown when Sailor Pluto confirms that the Tau Star System is a distant region in spacetime. Please note, that the Tau Star System is referred to as a cosmos, other world, and alternate dimension showing that it is spatially and temporally distinct from the main universe. Luna and Sailor Pluto also confirm the existence of a multitude of other alternate dimensions via dimensional routes, so much that Luna's computer cannot check them all.

It is confirmed that the past exists as physical location within Spacetime as Chibi-usa states that it exists on the "other side of spacetime". Couple that with the fact that, those who wander the corridor can end up getting lost in time.

In addition to embedding these separate universes, and even going so far as treating time as physical locations within it self.

No offense, but I really don't think it helps you out in the long run to rely on the exact same arguments that got rejected for their own reasons. To be specific, Ultima rejected your last thread because he saw no basis for as much as insignificant 5-D, since the corridor seemed to operate under the framework of a single space-time. To elaborate:

• Calling the Tau Star System a "distant region in space-time" is the most explicit confirmation imaginable for it operating under the framework of a single space-time. This other translation describes it as rather another space-time altogether, at least...? Depends on what the raws say.
• You say the fact that it's called a "cosmos" indicates that it's another space-time (since cosmos is synonymous with universe, which is synonymous with space-time) but you run into the problem where the kanji translated as cosmos can contextually mean "outer space." The fact that it's called a "star system" and possibly just "another region" of space-time means the context disfavors interpreting it as a space-time. I get the impression that it's more of a... well, solar system sized dimension.
• "Other side of space-time" also limits the corridor to the framework of a single space-time.
• "Dimension" is only supporting evidence for something being a space-time.

I hold the same take as Ultima. I don't see how the corridor extends past the framework of a single space-time and I don't see how it encompasses other timelines.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

To be specific, Ultima rejected your last thread because he saw no basis for as little as insignificant 5-D, as the corridor seemed to operate under the framework of a single space-time. To elaborate:

You prematurely got my last thread closed before Ultima could respond to my reply, so no, Ultima did not reject it. He was under the impression that the corridor served only one universe. He never got the chance to respond to my correction.

• Calling the Tau Star System a "distant region in space-time" is the most explicit confirmation imaginable for it operating under the framework of a single space-time. This other translation describes it as rather another space-time altogether, at least...? Depends on what the raws say.

One scan says a "space-time far away", the other scan says "a region far away in space time". How do these contradict each other? They both convey the information that the Tau Star System and the main universe are separate locations.

• You say the fact that it's called a "cosmos" indicates that it's another space-time (since cosmos is synonymous with universe, which is synonymous with space-time) but you run into the problem where the kanji translated as cosmos can contextually mean "outer space." The fact that it's called a "star system" and possibly just "another region" of space-time means the context disfavors interpreting it as a space-time. I get the impression that it's more of a... well, solar system sized dimension.

Are you willfully ignoring the scans that call it an alternate dimension and other world? And the scan you just posted calls it a spacetime so you are contradicting yourself in real time.

• "Other side of space-time" also limits the corridor to the framework of a single space-time.

??? If I said, "I am going to travel to the starbucks at the other side of town", that limits the amount of star bucks in town to one? This argument doesn't make sense. The point of the statement is that the corridor treats time of the universes like physical locations.

 

[Deagonx]

You prematurely got my last thread closed before Ultima could respond to my reply, so no, Ultima did not reject it

That's not what happened. Weeks went by without him responding to it. We do not have to keep threads open indefinitely under such circumstances.

But nonetheless, I disagree with this as I did the last time you posted for this upgrade.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

That's not what happened. Weeks went by without him responding to it. We do not have to keep threads open indefinitely under such circumstances.

But nonetheless, I disagree with this as I did the last time you posted for this upgrade.

Did my thread close before Ultima responded to my post or not? Yes or No? Since you want to claim what didn't happen?

Threads remain open on this forum for months while people wait for Ultima or DT to respond. So save me this silly excuse.

Also the standards of the wiki changed. You cannot use your previous arguments. Actually give a new argument.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Also this argument that the corridor only serves one spacetime and is therefore invalid is moot.

It’s not true, and even if it was, the corridor still portrays the time of the universe as physical locations within it. A snapshot of the corridor would include the entire 4D continuum within each snap shot, making uncountably infinite snapshots of 4D.

 

[Gonzalo]

I agree

 

[GarrixianXD]

That's not what happened. Weeks went by without him responding to it. We do not have to keep threads open indefinitely under such circumstances.

But nonetheless, I disagree with this as I did the last time you posted for this upgrade.

Lemme guess, this was created before and was rejected.

Well then, I got nothing to say other than I disagree if that’s the case.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Lemme guess, this was created before and was rejected.

Well then, I got nothing to say other than I disagree if that’s the case.

That's not an argument. The standards change.

Also it was not fully rejected. IT was rejected by one staff member and then closed before another responded to a correction.

 

[GarrixianXD]

That's not an argument. The standards change.

Also it was not fully rejected. IT was rejected by one staff member and then closed before another responded to a correction.

Ah well then, sorry for my lack of faith.

 

[Deagonx]

The standards change

DT just clarified that he did not consider the prior thread as proposing a change to the standards.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

DT just clarified that he did not consider the prior thread as proposing a change to the standards.

Staff still agreed with the change and it was made. We will see if another change will be made.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

So if I'm understanding correctly (i don't know SM well so apologies if I'm getting terminology wrong). The corridor has at least 2 different temporal dimensions, one for the regular universe, and the other for the tau star system. If you could explain how the scan for the corridor envelops the other 2. I'd be inclined to agree, and I disagree if you use the same argument via standards from the last disagreement since the standards have changed, so any previous disagreement wouldn't be valid unless someone shows that their disagreement applies to this standard as well

 

[Killerdrone123]

Neutral for now sailor moon lacks context for an overarching timeline as profectus said calling something a dimension would make it a space-time not a different time axis

 

[SYPHe5D]

Neutral for now

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

So if I'm understanding correctly (i don't know SM well so apologies if I'm getting terminology wrong). The corridor has at least 2 different temporal dimensions, one for the regular universe, and the other for the tau star system. If you could explain how the scan for the corridor envelops the other 2. I'd be inclined to agree, and I disagree if you use the same argument via standards from the last disagreement since the standards have changed, so any previous disagreement wouldn't be valid unless someone shows that their disagreement applies to this standard as well

No. The Tau Star System, the main universe, all the alternate dimensions, mirror universes, parallel universes each have their their own spacetime, where time flows normally.

The Corridor of Spacetime contains all of these places and represents their time as physical locations within itself as well as events that occur in the past and future occur simultaneously in the corridor of spacetime, meaning that a snap shot of the corridor would include every moment in a universe.

This makes for uncountable snapshots of 4D space.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Also it seems DT's draft will be placed after a few edits: but Let me give attention to this point:

A spacetime continuum with two time axis, instead of just one, could likewise be visualized as a line comprised of uncountably infinite points, each of which is a static "snapshot" of the entire regular timeline with 3 space and 1 time dimension. It would hence be one level of qualitative superiority above a timeline and as such baseline Low 1-C. Similarily, adding even more time dimensions would add one level of qualitative superiority each time.

As I said, Time is physically presented as locations within the the corridor. A snapshot of the corridor would include an entire 4D continuum in each snapshot. This would count as one level of qualitive superiority.

 

[Vzearr]

Agree with the OP, lol DB and SM tier 1, what a week.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Neutral for now sailor moon lacks context for an overarching timeline as profectus said calling something a dimension would make it a space-time not a different time axis

As I have said earlier, even if the corridor only corresponded to the main universe, it still holds time within it as a location. Chibi-Usa is on future earth and says the past earth is on the other side of spacetime. If you take a snap shot of spacetime, the future earth and the past earth would be both included in a single snapshot.

But also, here's Sailor Pluto literally sealing the Tau Star System with the Corridor.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Bump.

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA

 

[KingNanaya]

looking at DT's draft in the other thread, I'm not sure if this will pass. but that's just my take

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

looking at DT's draft in the other thread, I'm not sure if this will pass. but that's just my take

I've decided to not use the overarching timeline argument and instead focus on the line where DT says that the overarching counts because it contains uncountably infinite snapshots of 4D spaces. The evidence here proves the corridor does the same thing in its own unique way (similar to the 5th dimension in Interstellar created by the Bulk Beings).

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Even going further to the Interstellar comparison. The same way that Cooper was able to communicate with his daughter in the past while in the 5th dimension is quite similar in the way Sailor Pluto was able to warn Sailor Moon in the past.

 

[KingNanaya]

I guess I don't have a problem then

 

[Qawsedf234]

I hold the same take as Ultima. I don't see how the corridor extends past the framework of a single space-time and I don't see how it encompasses other timelines.

I'm not really seeing it containing a infinite snapshots of a Low 2-C space either. It's just standard backwards time travel.

(similar to the 5th dimension in Interstellar created by the Bulk Beings).

The Bulk Beings actually created a 5th Dimensional Cube and allowed someone to perceive the 4th Dimension as a physical dimension. That is far more explicit than what's happening here.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I'm not really seeing it containing a infinite snapshots of a Low 2-C space either. It's just standard backwards time travel.

The Bulk Beings actually created a 5th Dimensional Cube and allowed someone to perceive the 4th Dimension as a physical dimension. That is far more explicit than what's happening here.

If by backwards time travel do you mean the shockwaves or the time key?

The shockwaves traveled backwards through time in the universe not via the corridor. The time key was sent to Sailor Moon by Sailor Pluto who is inside the corridor.

The time key isn’t traveling backwards in time because the corridor doesn’t exist in the future, it exists outside the time of the universes. (I guess you can say it time traveled side ways)

The reason I compared it to Interstellar, is because in the 5th dimension, Connor is able to view events happening in past and future in real time and affect both in real time.

Black Lady launched the shockwaves from future earth and they traveled to past earth.

Inside the corridor, Sailor Pluto, like Connor, is able to witness Black Lady in the future and Sailor Moon in the past simultaneously in real time. She is able to send Sailor Moon the time key to warn her before the shockwaves hit the past. To Pluto, the past and future are just locations in the corridor.

This again supported when Chibi-Usa refers to the past earth as a physical location in spacetime (the corridor) while on future earth.

The uncountable snapshots comes in because the corridor has its own events and under goes progression that is outside the scope of time in the universes, such as time storms or Pluto being replaced by Diana (I can post scans for them later).

The snapshot of 4D space comes in because a snapshot of the entire corridor must include both the future and past because they are included in Sailor Pluto’s frame of reference.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

On the creation aspect, it is implied that Chronos, Pluto’s father created the corridor but like the bulk beings, he’s not shown. But that’s not entirely relevant.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The reason I compared it to Interstellar, is because in the 5th dimension, Connor is able to view events happening in past and future in real time and affect both in real time.

Then that's not evidence of multiple temporal dimensions.

The uncountable snapshots comes in because the corridor has its own events and under goes progression that is outside the scope of time in the universes, such as time storms or Pluto being replaced by Diana (I can post scans for them later).

It moving in the same direction (forward) is already evidence they're working in the same direction. Something containing other timeline structures isn't the same as having an infinite snapshots of those timestreams.

To go over your OP

The corridor also serves as the framework in which all universes and spacetimes are embedded within.

This is just a standard multiversal timestream.

In addition to embedding these separate universes, and even going so far as treating time as physical locations within it self. The corridor has its own unique portray of time. While it is stated that the corridor has no flow of time, events that occur in the past and future happen simultaneously to observers in the corridor. In order for this to occur, and to be able to embed all the different universes to the point where the times of the universes are locations, the corridor has to have it's own unique axis.

It would not. The corridor is just an access point to various other space times and allows them to time travel. Neither require an additional higher axis for that to work.

When Black Lady sends shockwaves backwards in time to attack Sailor Moon and the team, Sailor Pluto is able to warn Sailor Moon before the shockwaves hit her. This is only possible if Sailor Pluto exists outside the flow of time (as the corridor is stated to not have flow of time) and have her own frame of reference in terms of time and causality.

A key being sent before the shockwaves does not imply two time axis. It just means that Sailor Pluto either sent the key back first or that her time alternation abilities are better than the shockwaves. A key landing before the shockwaves would not require two temporal dimensions to work.

A single universe is rated as Low 2-C because a timeline of it will represent uncountable infinite snapshots of the 3D space it represents. The corridor should be rated as Low 1-C because all uncountable snapshots of the corridor would include the the 4D spaces of every universe embedded in it, as all time is physically presented as locations within the space.

Visual Aids:

That's not how that would look like. This is how a Time Axis being embedded by another time axis would work:



What you have shown does not fit with the above definition. A axis being embedded is equal to a power set of universes. An uncountable infinity, or a combination of all types of infinites included within a set.

With SM all I'm seeing is a standard multiverse with a gate that happens to give people time travel powers.

 

[HenshinIntervention]

I agree! Tier 1 Sailor Moon should come to fruition.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Then that's not evidence of multiple temporal dimensions.

That's not how that would look like. This is how a Time Axis being embedded by another time axis would work:

That's not how that would look like. This is how a Time Axis being embedded by another time axis would work:

It moving in the same direction (forward) is already evidence they're working in the same direction.

I am not arguing for embedded/overarching timelines anymore. So the standards and requirement for that specifically, is not what I am trying to prove here for the corridor. In the draft DT says, "each of which is a static "snapshot" of the entire regular timeline with 3 space and 1 time dimension. It would hence be one level of qualitative superiority above a timeline and as such baseline Low 1-C."

I am trying to prove that a single snapshot of the corridor contains an entire 4D space time and that the entire timeline is an uncountable infinite amount of 4D snapshots which would qualify for one level of QS above the universes.

The corridor is just an access point to various other space times and allows them to time travel.

This is just a standard multiversal timestream.

Yes. I agree. That is the point. It's both.

For the corridor to allow people to time travel it must have an access point to every moment in time. That is an uncountably infinite amount of access points.
The corridor also acts like a standard multiverse because it embeds all the universes. In order for the corridor to do both at the same time, all of time must be embedded within it.

A key being sent before the shockwaves does not imply two time axis. It just means that Sailor Pluto either sent the key back first or that her time alternation abilities are better than the shockwaves. A key landing before the shockwaves would not require two temporal dimensions to work.

Sailor Pluto is outside of the time of the universe. She is not in the future.



The shockwaves and sending the keys aren't time alternations abilities. But if I were to humor your point, it would be on my side:

In order for Pluto see the the timeline being altered by actions in the future, and then be forced to alter it herself, she would need to see the entire timeline in her frame of reference. Remember she does not exist in the universe or in its time.

With SM all I'm seeing is a standard multiverse with a gate that happens to give people time travel powers.

The Corridor doesn't give people time powers. Pluto doesn't get her powers from the corridor. The shockwaves was not created with the corridor or with plutos's power but by the black malefic crystal in the future.

A standard multiverse would only contain the a singular snapshot of the present states of each universe in each of its snapshots such as this:



A timeline of a standard multiverse would look like this:



The snapshot of the corridor would like this:



The past, present, and future all exist within the corridor at any given time.

The timeline of the corridor would look like this:



The corridor changes and it has its own specific events that are unique to it and not of the universes. It's timeline would have uncountable infinite amount of snapshots of 4D spaces.

 

[Lonkitt]

I feel like I'm seeing yet again the same arguments with equally absent evidence for Tier 1 for Sailor Moon

Before you bring up the recent revision, yes, I am aware about the change in standards

I disagree with OP

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I feel like I'm seeing yet again the same arguments with equally absent evidence for Tier 1 for Sailor Moon

Before you bring up the recent revision, yes, I am aware about the change in standards

I disagree with OP

Can you give a specific reason for disagreeing?

 

[Lonkitt]

Can you give a specific reason for disagreeing?

Qawsed and ProfectusInfinity already put into words why this isn't Tier 1

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Qawsed and ProfectusInfinity already put into words why this isn't Tier 1

I am currently in conversation with Qawsed.

But for profectus's arguments, after what he wrote, the standards changed again, and I switched arguments in response to the change, so what he has said has no baring on the current argument. But he is free to come up with a different reasoning.

 

[Lonkitt]

I am currently in conversation with Qawsed.

Cool, but that isn't really a point in favour of me agreeing with you

But for profectus's arguments, after what he wrote, the standards changed again, and I switched arguments in response to the change, so what he has said has no baring on the current argument. But he is free to come up with a different reasoning.

All of their points weren't entirely based in the previous standards, so its not as if what they wrote is entirely moot

I remain in disagreement with your proposals