Why do Undertale God Tiers have Immeasurable speed?

[Blackcurrant91]

Yeah she exists/speaks to you from a timeless void

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Except Flowey himself never thought Frisk was Chara. He only started believing Frisk was Chara in True Pacifist when he became God Asriel. In the Genocide Run it actually WAS Chara.

The word soul was also inside the quotation marks, if I recall, so that means nothing. The person playing the game didn't "guide" Chara either, and Chara was referring to watching Frisk's actions up to Toriel's house where she possessed her. Frisk is nowhere to be seen in any FIGHT, not just when Chara appeared.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Most of this is easily debunked by saying that just because it CAN apply to the player doesn't mean it DOES.

 

[Read_this_post]

The statements are directly describing the players actions and are aimed at the player. There is nobody else it can be without headcannon which makes no sense in terms of the story.

No. Flowey saw frisk and viewed him as chara right from the beginning. Chara was only getting more powerful and closer to her full power in genocide and taking control of frisk and the player.

Wtf are you talking about? I never said the word soul was outside the quotation marks. You just misrepresented what i said and acted like it completely debunks my point. The term human soul was put in those marks because it wasnt literally referring to the player having a literal human soul.

The person playing the game controlled frisk (who is posessed by chara) and chara learns from those actions. Frisk never guides chara nor is held responsible for the genocide run. Frisk is seen in fights and is represented through his soul.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

There is nowhere here that a statement has to be aimed at the player, especially since I debunked all 3 examples involving the player whatsoever.

You're right, he did. On Genocide. Because it WAS Chara. She took control of Frisk as early as Toriel's house.

It does, because you implied that Chara put emphasis on the word "human", which she did not.

Tf? So the person playing as Frisk guided Chara but not Frisk herself? Even if a player WAS canon, Chara was talking to Frisk during that scene, so the "player" wouldn't have been involved regardless.

 

[Read_this_post]

You havent debunked anything.

No. Flowey saw frisk as chara in the ruins and outside of genocide.

Her having soul being put in the quotations does not change the fact that she was not being literal about the human soul. It was only put in the same quotation due to being a part of the same noun

The player guided both frisk and chara and influenced chara as a result. Chara eventually broke free from the players control in genocide. Chara was not talking to frisk. Ive already explained why.

Can you stop derailing this thread?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I did, but not to you. "Sans was indeed talking about Chara that entire time. Also, the very end of Flowey's speech is him referring to who he was talking to, in which he specifically says Chara's name. It's even more headcanon to say that Chara WASN'T talking to Frisk since obviously the player wouldn't have a Human SOUL and Chara was talking in the exact same way, and to the same person, in the same fashion, as before she destroyed the timeline."

Name an occasion.

If what you claim were to even be considered, only the word "Human" would have to be in quotation marks.

Oh, you're one of those people that think the player possessed Chara. The only reason you think Chara was talking to the Player is because you want it to be. The player controlling Chara goes as unmentioned as the player does.

I'm not the one who made it about the player.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

The Flowey one isnt exactly headcanon since he outright refers to you as Chara. Tho I think it's pretty blatant that the dialogue was aimed at the player.

He says the name the player chooses for Frisk and it'd make no sense at that moment for it to be Chara as they haven't reached the absolute and don't have the true reset as a power.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I did, but not to you. "Sans was indeed talking about Chara that entire time. Also, the very end of Flowey's speech is him referring to who he was talking to, in which he specifically says Chara's name. It's even more headcanon to say that Chara WASN'T talking to Frisk since obviously the player wouldn't have a Human SOUL and Chara was talking in the exact same way, and to the same person, in the same fashion, as before she destroyed the timeline."
Name an occasion.

If what you claim were to even be considered, only the word "Human" would have to be in quotation marks.

Oh, you're one of those people that think the player possessed Chara. The only reason you think Chara was talking to the Player is because you want it to be. The player controlling Chara goes as unmentioned as the player does.

I'm not the one who made it about the player.

Sean, your first 3 scans mention nothing about Chara and it's just literal headcanon. Again, Chara has not reached the absolute at the end of the true pacifisst run and does not have the true reset as a power until genocide rute. No, it's more headcanon to say Chara was talking to Frisk. The timeline was destroyed, Frisk can't survive that, and the way Charra talks is so obviously talking to the player. Prove the player doesn't have a soul. Chara was talking the same exact way before they destroyed the timeline only proves they were talking to the player before the timeline is destroyed.

No, it's because it's very obvious Chara was talking to the player. Explain why any of the lines they say to the player remotely applies to Frisk.

 

[Read_this_post]

Name an occasion? He literally calls frisk "chara" on every single occasion they speak and realises that the person standing in front of him in pacifist is frisk and not chara who he believed him to be.

Sans never refers to chara. He is talking directly to the player and talking about how he wants to find every possible ending, consuming timeline after timeline, finding every possible outcome (which is a direct reflection of undertales actions). Chara never even does this nor does she have any control over the game until genocide.

Chara and frisk dont have a human soul in genocide either. Sans even states that they are not human in the genocide run and asgore doesnt recognise you as such. The term human soul is in quotation marks to highlight that they are not human at that point. So even if the player doesnt exist

No it wouldnt. She put the full noun in quotation marks, which still proves she is not being literal about the full term of human soul.

Not entirely. Ill get down to all this when i finish the god tier revisions

No. You are the one who started claiming the player doesnt exist in undertale, which is a completely different discussion altogether. Stop derailing. This is my last response.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Sean, your first 3 scans mention nothing about Chara and it's just literal headcanon. Again, Chara has not reached the absolute at the end of the true pacifisst run and does not have the true reset as a power until genocide rute. No, it's more headcanon to say Chara was talking to Frisk. The timeline was destroyed, Frisk can't survive that, and the way Charra talks is so obviously talking to the player. Prove the player doesn't have a soul. Chara was talking the same exact way before they destroyed the timeline only proves they were talking to the player before the timeline is destroyed.

No, it's because it's very obvious Chara was talking to the player. Explain why any of the lines they say to the player remotely applies to Frisk.

It mentions Chara because that's who Sans was talking to. The third one in particular proves what I was saying, the others put it in context. Chara doesn't need to reach their absolute to destroy timelines, etc since Flowey was afraid of what Chara would do even in Pacifist.

>"Frisk can't survive that"

>*Points to 2-B Durability on her page*

I'm pretty sure Chara was talking to the person that was doing the killing rather than the person fans like to pretend exists. Also burden of proof means you have to prove the player does have a soul, which you'd have to prove the player exists to do. Frisk wasn't even "dead" then, as you claim, and I highly doubt Frisk just popped out of existence.

Probably because Frisk was the one that was actually responsible for the things Chara was saying.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

"It mentions Chara cause that's who sans was talking to" literally none of your scans show him talking about Chara.

The 2-B durability refers to them when they ahve an immense amount of DT which is only shown at the end of true pacifist.

What...? Where is it remotely implied the player doesn't have a soul. We follow basic common sense, he's not stated to not have a soul so we shouldn't assume he doesn't. They did, and they did die, there's literally no reason at that point to assume they're alive.

Frisk isn't, The Player is.

 

[Wokistan]

Who would chara even be talking to in the end though, just sitting there talking to himself and stealing his own soul doesn't make much sense

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Who would chara even be talking to in the end though, just sitting there talking to himself and stealing his own soul doesn't make much sense

Frisk. She has a SOUL.

 

[Agnaa]

Stop arguing about The Anomaly (Undertale) here, take it to another thread. This is for Immeasurable speed.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

"It mentions Chara cause that's who sans was talking to" literally none of your scans show him talking about Chara.
The 2-B durability refers to them when they ahve an immense amount of DT which is only shown at the end of true pacifist.

What...? Where is it remotely implied the player doesn't have a soul. We follow basic common sense, he's not stated to not have a soul so we shouldn't assume he doesn't. They did, and they did die, there's literally no reason at that point to assume they're alive.

Frisk isn't, The Player is.

That's what "you" means in the third link.

It also refers to Photoshop Flowey and, fun fact, Undyne the Undying because she scales to Full Power Chara.

He's not stated to have a soul either, in fact he's never stated to exist. There is reason to assume Frisk was alive since Chara talked like she was talking to the exact same person and she needed their SOUL.

 

[Agnaa]

Stop arguing about The Anomaly (Undertale) here, take it to another thread. This is for Immeasurable speed.

 

[Antvasima]

It is correct that being spatially higher-dimensional does not automatically qualify a character for immeasurable speed, and you should read our Timeless Voids Standards page to see if they even qualify for infinite speed.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

I agree with removing Immeasurable

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Did nobody read what I said before the whole "Player" stuff happened?

 

[Agnaa]

Did nobody read what I said before the whole "Player" stuff happened?

I read it and responded to it.

Photoshop Flowey's SAVE and LOAD is hax not sheer speed.

When does Frisk "leave the game"? Why do you think it was done by sheer speed and not hax?

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here?

 

[Agnaa]

We haven't quite reached a conclusion yet, half of the posts so far were arguing about something off-topic.

Most of the thread seemed to agree with Infinite instead of Immeasurable, Sean argued in favor of Immeasurable, I responded to his points, and and then the thread got derailed.

 

[Antvasima]

What proof is there of infinite speed? Does it fulfill the requirements of our Timeless Voids Standards page?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It was agreed to be moved to infinite, a while ago.

I just don't think we ever did.

So

oops, I guess?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Does it fulfill the requirements I linked to earlier?

 

[Read_this_post]

Okay. Does it fulfill the requirements I linked to earlier?

Well. Asriel purged the timeline and continued moving and fighting frisk. Chara destroyed the game alone with its timeline(s) reducing it to nothing and then spoke to the anomaly in the void. It is pretty clear they can move in a timeless void.

Flowey for now might be safe at unknown speeds since he is getting heavily revised for later.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but do the voids fulfill our standards for counting it as infinite speed?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

His attack was eating a timeline and Frisk was avoiding said attack for a while.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Read_this_post]

Well it hasn't been directly stated as timeless. But is pretty clearly shown to be timeless. Chara literally erased all timelines and continued existing and talking in erased reality. And asriel purged the timeline and continued moving afterwards. I'm pretty sure that is enough to fit the timeless void standards

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I would appreciate if everybody here read through the page, in order to make sure: Timeless Voids Standards

 

[Read_this_post]

I did. The void after genocide functions as a timeless void and cannot be anything but a timeless void based on what happened. Though it wasnt outright stated as timeless, it was pretty clearly demonstrated (very similarly to monikas timeless void feat in fact). Also asriel was going to do the same thing (true reset) from what i have gathered plus his. So yes, it should fit the timeless void standards

 

[Agnaa]

It doesn't seem to meet the requirements, from what I can tell. It's not described as timeless, it doesn't show a lack of time (although it also doesn't show a presence of time), and I don't think characters are described as being beyond time or space-time.

The evidence for it being timeless is that all timelines are erased, but there's still no statement of it being timeless.

 

[Read_this_post]

The game files themselves were completely erased and rendered any form of time manip (besides recreation) impossible and reduced it to a blackscreen. I dont see why it would need a direct statement when it is made pretty clear there was nothing left and shown through the games functions that it was erased and time clearly did not exist. Im pretty sure it is the exact same reason why Monika has infinite speeds.

And there is still asriel purging the timeline and moving as it is happening and the fact he was going to do exactly what chara did (that is the true reset).

 

[Agnaa]

Time manip was impossible because Flowey/Chara had more determination, and only the being with the most determination has that time manip, right? Also, I already agreed that the game files were erased.

Monika has infinite speeds because her realm was explicitly stated to be timeless.

 

[Read_this_post]

In the ps flowey fight many of the games functions were intact (and likely at best falls under a type 2 timeless void tbh). In genocide, save files in general were non existent and everything was purged. It was the equivilent of a delayed true reset where everything in the game is erased and remade. Save files at that point were non existant with all their data being non existant and the only way anything could happen was for it to be restored.

Also im not entirely sure if chara actually has more determination. She kind of scales directly to the anomaly. But having more determination offers more control over save files or allows you to destroy or create them. But chara just outright nuked the reality and did nothing involving save files. So there is a difference.

I didnt realise that. Thanks.

 

[Read_this_post]

Should i get azathoth here? He might be able to give a better explanation to whether it should be timeless or not.

 

[Agnaa]

In genocide, the world wasn't actually erased yet when speaking to Chara, it doesn't get erased until you give Chara your soul. That's why Chara says "Let us erase this pointless world".

Chara stated at the start of its speech that its determination was "yours".

@Your second post Sure.

 

[Read_this_post]

Might want to watch that again. She says "let us erase this pointless world" and then nukes everything against your will. She later gives you the option to give her your soul so she can restore the game.