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Marisa vs Asriel

Now that I think about it, I should probably take my problems with the wank Ability cards being Marisa's standard equipment to a CRT, rather than complain about it here. At any moment. Soon. Tomorrow. Maybe next week. Whenever I feel like it and I stop being lazy.
 
Deidalius said:
Now that I think about it, I should probably take my problems with the wank Ability cards being Marisa's standard equipment to a CRT, rather than complain about it here. At any moment. Soon. Tomorrow. Maybe next week. Whenever I feel like it and I stop being lazy.
Click to expand...
That's what I'd recommend doing yeah. Most of the issues cant really be applied to a vs thread like this when they're accepted to the profile already.

I don't think you'd have much luck with a thread like that though.
 
Deidalius said:
Wouldn't that card be a game mechanic? I am just thinking, if Marisa could just automatically beat anyone in her dreams and make those dreams real, Cheating detective Satori would have ended way quicker and not drag on for like dozens of chapters of absolute slop.
Click to expand...
No, the cards aren't just game mechanics. They are outright present in the story, and the entire premise of 18 & 18.5 is essentially finding out who's responsible for creating them because of how much of a craze they are. Chimata (the marketplace god who created the cards) creates them to gain Faith through monetary exchange, while the Tengu help her with distributions, and profit from them in tandem.
 
StrymULTRA said:
No ok just give me the clip of how the ability works which is NOT a Touhou Wiki screenshot, because this entire thing feels super sus and your explanation isn't even giving me an actual answer.
Click to expand...


StrymULTRA said:
So if you wanna say pointless fluff, two can play the game.
Click to expand...
StrymULTRA said:
Pretty much. Touhou supporters aren't explaining, just tell that she wins and do not elaborate, which makes things suspicious.
Click to expand...
StrymULTRA said:
So it's not passive anyways 👍
Click to expand...
StrymULTRA said:
You only said that she wins without elaborating on how lol.
Click to expand...
StrymULTRA said:
Ok prove that thing will resurrect her from Type 2 Info EE. It's a NLF otherwise lmao.
Click to expand...

I don’t mean to be blunt, but it feels like you're not satisfied with the answers regardless of what's presented, and it's starting to feel more like you're being confrontational than engaging in a constructive discussion. Could we please keep the conversation focused and more respectful?
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
That's what I'd recommend doing yeah. Most of the issues cant really be applied to a vs thread like this when they're accepted to the profile already.

I don't think you'd have much luck with a thread like that though.
Click to expand...
I feel lucky. :)
Quibster said:
No, the cards aren't just game mechanics. They are outright present in the story, and the entire premise of 18 & 18.5 is essentially finding out who's responsible for creating them because of how much of a craze they are. Chimata (the marketplace god who created the cards) creates them to gain Faith through monetary exchange, while the Tengu help her with distributions, and profit from them in tandem.
Click to expand...
To be clear, I am not saying the ability cards don't exist, I read the plot of that game (Though I haven't played it) I am saying that a lot of their effects are potentially just game mechanics being taken way too literally. A lot of these abilities haven't really had their effects appear outside the games, especially the ones that deal with game mechanics. To me, it seems that a lot of them are just game mechanics not meant to be taken seriously, you know that, especially because of the gamey talk. They seem like when planet busters in RPGs can't destroy a wall without a shovel or something like that, you're not meant to take that as a serious feat since it's a game mechanic.

That being said, I should probably move that to a CRT separate from this thread. We could all argue and fight each other about that there and focus on Marisa vs Asriel here.
Robo432343 said:
I agree with deidalius
Click to expand...
Thank you, I agree with me too.
 
Deidalius said:
To be clear, I am not saying the ability cards don't exist, I read the plot of that game (Though I haven't played it) I am saying that a lot of their effects are potentially just game mechanics being taken way too literally. A lot of these abilities haven't really had their effects appear outside the games, especially the ones that deal with game mechanics. To me, it seems that a lot of them are just game mechanics not meant to be taken seriously, you know that, especially because of the gamey talk. They seem like when planet busters in RPGs can't destroy a wall without a shovel or something like that, you're not meant to take that as a serious feat since it's a game mechanic.

That being said, I should probably move that to a CRT separate from this thread. We could all argue and fight each other about that there and focus on Marisa vs Asriel here.
Click to expand...
I'll keep an eye out for it, ty.
 
Deidalius said:
To be clear, I am not saying the ability cards don't exist, I read the plot of that game (Though I haven't played it) I am saying that a lot of their effects are potentially just game mechanics being taken way too literally. A lot of these abilities haven't really had their effects appear outside the games, especially the ones that deal with game mechanics. To me, it seems that a lot of them are just game mechanics not meant to be taken seriously, you know that, especially because of the gamey talk. They seem like when planet busters in RPGs can't destroy a wall without a shovel or something like that, you're not meant to take that as a serious feat since it's a game mechanic.
Click to expand...
Ngl but shouldn't you play the game, or at least watch a longplay before doing a CRT on it?
 
StrymULTRA said:
Ngl but shouldn't you play the game, or at least watch a longplay before doing a CRT on it?
Click to expand...
You know, you're very right, actually right, you're so right. I tend to talk a lot, but I don't back up what I say. I haven't thought much of the implications. Le abilities given by a bad and boring game require you to play or know about that game to make a good CRT without making a fool out of yourself?!!! I'd have to stop being lazy and do research?!!!! That being said, I probably will watch a gameplay video. I don't know if I am strong enough to play Touhou 18 and 18.5 without snoring. Maybe I should if I plan to make a CRT. I could probably stomach it. I think, maybe, I am not sure. I mean, I handled Touhou 19 and that game might be one of the worst Touhou games that have been released in a while. If I can beat Touhou 19 I can do anything. I mean, the reason I am saying all of this is that I showed those abilities to a bunch of friends, half played Touhou 19, half didn't play it (Based), I was agreeing with how those abilities worked until those friends showed me a different perspective, that I haven't thought of, that they might just be game mechanics not meant to be taken literally. Crazy right? An ability in a game that is full of gaming language might be just a game mechanic, especially when it might be contradicted by the lore and doesn't appear in non-game titles? They also hurled insults at me and implied I am stupid for even remotely thinking that, but I digress. This was like, a month or some weeks ago, maybe more, I don't know, I don't keep track of time. Anyway, they might be right, I mean, if Touhou was more Meta like, IDK, Undertale, maybe I'd believe the game mechanics are canon, some of them. But Touhou seems more serious, sure, it has some 4th wall breaks, but I don't think that's enough to canonize a game mechanic. I mean, those friends were lorefiends, some, Ben and Tina aren't, but the other lorefiends know what they know. But that doesn't directly translate to what's acceptable here. Maybe my thoughts are acceptable, maybe the standard will remain. I wouldn't know that until I research and ask around about the wiki standards. I don't know about this wiki, but I've been to other wikis, and they tend to highball weak stuff due to weird standards, but ah, that's just how powerscaling in general is. Honestly, I can't really blame those other guys, they're friendly even if they wank a lot. Their sins are forgiven. Oh, and I should also just research what I am talking about. I can't really make a CRT with pure hearsay or just by looking at the scans. I mean, I could do it just by looking at the scans, but making a CRT without interacting with the source material seems pretty disrespectful, you feel me? I should probably spend a few many hours researching and then show it to some friends for peer review. Peer reviewed CRTs, not those friends though, friend group #2, though I guess they're technically 3. Anyway, I am thinking, do I care enough about this to stop being lazy? I bark more than I bite, IDK, like like, will the world end if I let others wank a little? Will such a small change even matter? I was thinking of drawing you see, I am very bad with heads, I should watch a tutorial or something. You see, a guy said I am bad at drawing heads. Can you believe him? Me being bad at something? Yeah, he is right though, I am bad at drawing heads, and many other things, but I can improve you see, art is all about muscle memory, I haven't trained my hand enough to memorize all that good anatomy, I could if I tried harder. I mean, think about it, when you draw with your left hand, unless you're a lefty, you'll draw it badly, but with your hand you will draw fine, that's because of muscle memory. You also need to have an understanding of anatomy and memorize what you want. I mean, I can picture anatomically correct bodies all day long, but I can't exactly replicate that. Speaking of that, I am spinning an apple, here in my head, it's full of apples. Wonderful. Oh, yeah, yeah, back to powerscaling, I was also thinking. Man, I should really debunk all that wank, from Epic battle fantasy I mean, it seems no one else will, so I should. It has been annoying to debate with that verse ever since it gained passive 5D Fate and Plot manipulation. Can you believe it, dimensional scaling in my favorite planet level series? I digress, it has been on my backlog. I have talked to their scalers before, not about EBF of course, but about other things, like I don't know, anime, not in DMs, in Discord I think, they seem pretty chill as people. No beef with them. But their scaling seems outrageous. It has also completely made debates with those characters annoying, since they seem to stop or be stomped with their smurf hax. Maybe I am being selfish, but that makes me want to nuke those abilities altogether. Though... should I do that first or do Touhou first? Which to do, which to do... Maybe I should continue barking at a tree, you know, Pixel Gun 3D is realllly nice, you see, I got a new gun there, I gotta test it before I forget about it. Maybe tomorrow. IDK, I was going to say I was going to play that game a lot, but over one gun? Maybe tomorrow, later, one gun isn't enough to pull me back. They need to release a really cool two shot kill pistols, a single shot, no shotguns. My favorite, I have spent 50 dollars just on pistols on that game. It was worth it, pistols are way better than any other type of gun. Either way, I should probably play Minecraft or something, that was what I was doing. Or maybe I should layyy down and let the sleeping pills take effect, I can barely open my eyes anymore due to sleepiness, but I have one more machine I want to make, just one more. I'll automate copper generation for my factories.
 
Deidalius said:
You know, you're very right, actually right, you're so right. I tend to talk a lot, but I don't back up what I say. I haven't thought much of the implications. Le abilities given by a bad and boring game require you to play or know about that game to make a good CRT without making a fool out of yourself?!!! I'd have to stop being lazy and do research?!!!! That being said, I probably will watch a gameplay video. I don't know if I am strong enough to play Touhou 18 and 18.5 without snoring. Maybe I should if I plan to make a CRT. I could probably stomach it. I think, maybe, I am not sure. I mean, I handled Touhou 19 and that game might be one of the worst Touhou games that have been released in a while. If I can beat Touhou 19 I can do anything. I mean, the reason I am saying all of this is that I showed those abilities to a bunch of friends, half played Touhou 19, half didn't play it (Based), I was agreeing with how those abilities worked until those friends showed me a different perspective, that I haven't thought of, that they might just be game mechanics not meant to be taken literally. Crazy right? An ability in a game that is full of gaming language might be just a game mechanic, especially when it might be contradicted by the lore and doesn't appear in non-game titles? They also hurled insults at me and implied I am stupid for even remotely thinking that, but I digress. This was like, a month or some weeks ago, maybe more, I don't know, I don't keep track of time. Anyway, they might be right, I mean, if Touhou was more Meta like, IDK, Undertale, maybe I'd believe the game mechanics are canon, some of them. But Touhou seems more serious, sure, it has some 4th wall breaks, but I don't think that's enough to canonize a game mechanic. I mean, those friends were lorefiends, some, Ben and Tina aren't, but the other lorefiends know what they know. But that doesn't directly translate to what's acceptable here. Maybe my thoughts are acceptable, maybe the standard will remain. I wouldn't know that until I research and ask around about the wiki standards. I don't know about this wiki, but I've been to other wikis, and they tend to highball weak stuff due to weird standards, but ah, that's just how powerscaling in general is. Honestly, I can't really blame those other guys, they're friendly even if they wank a lot. Their sins are forgiven. Oh, and I should also just research what I am talking about. I can't really make a CRT with pure hearsay or just by looking at the scans. I mean, I could do it just by looking at the scans, but making a CRT without interacting with the source material seems pretty disrespectful, you feel me? I should probably spend a few many hours researching and then show it to some friends for peer review. Peer reviewed CRTs, not those friends though, friend group #2, though I guess they're technically 3. Anyway, I am thinking, do I care enough about this to stop being lazy? I bark more than I bite, IDK, like like, will the world end if I let others wank a little? Will such a small change even matter? I was thinking of drawing you see, I am very bad with heads, I should watch a tutorial or something. You see, a guy said I am bad at drawing heads. Can you believe him? Me being bad at something? Yeah, he is right though, I am bad at drawing heads, and many other things, but I can improve you see, art is all about muscle memory, I haven't trained my hand enough to memorize all that good anatomy, I could if I tried harder. I mean, think about it, when you draw with your left hand, unless you're a lefty, you'll draw it badly, but with your hand you will draw fine, that's because of muscle memory. You also need to have an understanding of anatomy and memorize what you want. I mean, I can picture anatomically correct bodies all day long, but I can't exactly replicate that. Speaking of that, I am spinning an apple, here in my head, it's full of apples. Wonderful. Oh, yeah, yeah, back to powerscaling, I was also thinking. Man, I should really debunk all that wank, from Epic battle fantasy I mean, it seems no one else will, so I should. It has been annoying to debate with that verse ever since it gained passive 5D Fate and Plot manipulation. Can you believe it, dimensional scaling in my favorite planet level series? I digress, it has been on my backlog. I have talked to their scalers before, not about EBF of course, but about other things, like I don't know, anime, not in DMs, in Discord I think, they seem pretty chill as people. No beef with them. But their scaling seems outrageous. It has also completely made debates with those characters annoying, since they seem to stop or be stomped with their smurf hax. Maybe I am being selfish, but that makes me want to nuke those abilities altogether. Though... should I do that first or do Touhou first? Which to do, which to do... Maybe I should continue barking at a tree, you know, Pixel Gun 3D is realllly nice, you see, I got a new gun there, I gotta test it before I forget about it. Maybe tomorrow. IDK, I was going to say I was going to play that game a lot, but over one gun? Maybe tomorrow, later, one gun isn't enough to pull me back. They need to release a really cool two shot kill pistols, a single shot, no shotguns. My favorite, I have spent 50 dollars just on pistols on that game. It was worth it, pistols are way better than any other type of gun. Either way, I should probably play Minecraft or something, that was what I was doing. Or maybe I should layyy down and let the sleeping pills take effect, I can barely open my eyes anymore due to sleepiness, but I have one more machine I want to make, just one more. I'll automate copper generation for my factories.
Click to expand...
For the love of god make it as different paragraphs as I can't read this.
 
StrymULTRA said:
For the love of god make it as different paragraphs as I can't read this.
Click to expand...
You know, you're very right, actually right, you're so right. I tend to talk a lot, but I don't back up what I say. I haven't thought much of the implications. Le abilities given by a bad and boring game require you to play or know about that game to make a good CRT without making a fool out of yourself?!!! I'd have to stop being lazy and do research?!!!! That being said, I probably will watch a gameplay video. I don't know if I am strong enough to play Touhou 18 and 18.5 without snoring. Maybe I should if I plan to make a CRT. I could probably stomach it. I think, maybe, I am not sure. I mean, I handled Touhou 19 and that game might be one of the worst Touhou games that have been released in a while. If I can beat Touhou 19 I can do anything.

I mean, the reason I am saying all of this is that I showed those abilities to a bunch of friends, half played Touhou 19, half didn't play it (Based), I was agreeing with how those abilities worked until those friends showed me a different perspective, that I haven't thought of, that they might just be game mechanics not meant to be taken literally. Crazy right? An ability in a game that is full of gaming language might be just a game mechanic, especially when it might be contradicted by the lore and doesn't appear in non-game titles? They also hurled insults at me and implied I am stupid for even remotely thinking that, but I digress. This was like, a month or some weeks ago, maybe more, I don't know, I don't keep track of time.

Anyway, they might be right, I mean, if Touhou was more Meta like, IDK, Undertale, maybe I'd believe the game mechanics are canon, some of them. But Touhou seems more serious, sure, it has some 4th wall breaks, but I don't think that's enough to canonize a game mechanic. I mean, those friends were lorefiends, some, Ben and Tina aren't, but the other lorefiends know what they know. But that doesn't directly translate to what's acceptable here. Maybe my thoughts are acceptable, maybe the standard will remain. I wouldn't know that until I research and ask around about the wiki standards. I don't know about this wiki, but I've been to other wikis, and they tend to highball weak stuff due to weird standards, but ah, that's just how powerscaling in general is. Honestly, I can't really blame those other guys, they're friendly even if they wank a lot. Their sins are forgiven.

Oh, and I should also just research what I am talking about. I can't really make a CRT with pure hearsay or just by looking at the scans. I mean, I could do it just by looking at the scans, but making a CRT without interacting with the source material seems pretty disrespectful, you feel me? I should probably spend a few many hours researching and then show it to some friends for peer review. Peer reviewed CRTs, not those friends though, friend group #2, though I guess they're technically 3.

Anyway, I am thinking, do I care enough about this to stop being lazy? I bark more than I bite, IDK, like like, will the world end if I let others wank a little? Will such a small change even matter? I was thinking of drawing you see, I am very bad with heads, I should watch a tutorial or something. You see, a guy said I am bad at drawing heads. Can you believe him? Me being bad at something? Yeah, he is right though, I am bad at drawing heads, and many other things, but I can improve you see, art is all about muscle memory, I haven't trained my hand enough to memorize all that good anatomy, I could if I tried harder. I mean, think about it, when you draw with your left hand, unless you're a lefty, you'll draw it badly, but with your hand you will draw fine, that's because of muscle memory. You also need to have an understanding of anatomy and memorize what you want. I mean, I can picture anatomically correct bodies all day long, but I can't exactly replicate that. Speaking of that, I am spinning an apple, here in my head, it's full of apples. Wonderful.

Oh, yeah, yeah, back to powerscaling, I was also thinking. Man, I should really debunk all that wank, from Epic battle fantasy I mean, it seems no one else will, so I should. It has been annoying to debate with that verse ever since it gained passive 5D Fate and Plot manipulation. Can you believe it, dimensional scaling in my favorite planet level series? I digress, it has been on my backlog. I have talked to their scalers before, not about EBF of course, but about other things, like I don't know, anime, not in DMs, in Discord I think, they seem pretty chill as people. No beef with them. But their scaling seems outrageous. It has also completely made debates with those characters annoying, since they seem to stop or be stomped with their smurf hax. Maybe I am being selfish, but that makes me want to nuke those abilities altogether.

Though... should I do that first or do Touhou first? Which to do, which to do... Maybe I should continue barking at a tree, you know, Pixel Gun 3D is realllly nice, you see, I got a new gun there, I gotta test it before I forget about it. Maybe tomorrow. IDK, I was going to say I was going to play that game a lot, but over one gun? Maybe tomorrow, later, one gun isn't enough to pull me back. They need to release a really cool two shot kill pistols, a single shot, no shotguns. My favorite, I have spent 50 dollars just on pistols on that game. It was worth it, pistols are way better than any other type of gun.

Either way, I should probably play Minecraft or something, that was what I was doing. Or maybe I should layyy down and let the sleeping pills take effect, I can barely open my eyes anymore due to sleepiness, but I have one more machine I want to make, just one more. I'll automate copper generation for my factories.
 
Deidalius said:
You know, you're very right, actually right, you're so right. I tend to talk a lot, but I don't back up what I say. I haven't thought much of the implications. Le abilities given by a bad and boring game require you to play or know about that game to make a good CRT without making a fool out of yourself?!!! I'd have to stop being lazy and do research?!!!! That being said, I probably will watch a gameplay video. I don't know if I am strong enough to play Touhou 18 and 18.5 without snoring. Maybe I should if I plan to make a CRT. I could probably stomach it. I think, maybe, I am not sure. I mean, I handled Touhou 19 and that game might be one of the worst Touhou games that have been released in a while. If I can beat Touhou 19 I can do anything. I mean, the reason I am saying all of this is that I showed those abilities to a bunch of friends, half played Touhou 19, half didn't play it (Based), I was agreeing with how those abilities worked until those friends showed me a different perspective, that I haven't thought of, that they might just be game mechanics not meant to be taken literally. Crazy right? An ability in a game that is full of gaming language might be just a game mechanic, especially when it might be contradicted by the lore and doesn't appear in non-game titles? They also hurled insults at me and implied I am stupid for even remotely thinking that, but I digress. This was like, a month or some weeks ago, maybe more, I don't know, I don't keep track of time. Anyway, they might be right, I mean, if Touhou was more Meta like, IDK, Undertale, maybe I'd believe the game mechanics are canon, some of them. But Touhou seems more serious, sure, it has some 4th wall breaks, but I don't think that's enough to canonize a game mechanic. I mean, those friends were lorefiends, some, Ben and Tina aren't, but the other lorefiends know what they know. But that doesn't directly translate to what's acceptable here. Maybe my thoughts are acceptable, maybe the standard will remain. I wouldn't know that until I research and ask around about the wiki standards. I don't know about this wiki, but I've been to other wikis, and they tend to highball weak stuff due to weird standards, but ah, that's just how powerscaling in general is. Honestly, I can't really blame those other guys, they're friendly even if they wank a lot. Their sins are forgiven. Oh, and I should also just research what I am talking about. I can't really make a CRT with pure hearsay or just by looking at the scans. I mean, I could do it just by looking at the scans, but making a CRT without interacting with the source material seems pretty disrespectful, you feel me? I should probably spend a few many hours researching and then show it to some friends for peer review. Peer reviewed CRTs, not those friends though, friend group #2, though I guess they're technically 3. Anyway, I am thinking, do I care enough about this to stop being lazy? I bark more than I bite, IDK, like like, will the world end if I let others wank a little? Will such a small change even matter? I was thinking of drawing you see, I am very bad with heads, I should watch a tutorial or something. You see, a guy said I am bad at drawing heads. Can you believe him? Me being bad at something? Yeah, he is right though, I am bad at drawing heads, and many other things, but I can improve you see, art is all about muscle memory, I haven't trained my hand enough to memorize all that good anatomy, I could if I tried harder. I mean, think about it, when you draw with your left hand, unless you're a lefty, you'll draw it badly, but with your hand you will draw fine, that's because of muscle memory. You also need to have an understanding of anatomy and memorize what you want. I mean, I can picture anatomically correct bodies all day long, but I can't exactly replicate that. Speaking of that, I am spinning an apple, here in my head, it's full of apples. Wonderful. Oh, yeah, yeah, back to powerscaling, I was also thinking. Man, I should really debunk all that wank, from Epic battle fantasy I mean, it seems no one else will, so I should. It has been annoying to debate with that verse ever since it gained passive 5D Fate and Plot manipulation. Can you believe it, dimensional scaling in my favorite planet level series? I digress, it has been on my backlog. I have talked to their scalers before, not about EBF of course, but about other things, like I don't know, anime, not in DMs, in Discord I think, they seem pretty chill as people. No beef with them. But their scaling seems outrageous. It has also completely made debates with those characters annoying, since they seem to stop or be stomped with their smurf hax. Maybe I am being selfish, but that makes me want to nuke those abilities altogether. Though... should I do that first or do Touhou first? Which to do, which to do... Maybe I should continue barking at a tree, you know, Pixel Gun 3D is realllly nice, you see, I got a new gun there, I gotta test it before I forget about it. Maybe tomorrow. IDK, I was going to say I was going to play that game a lot, but over one gun? Maybe tomorrow, later, one gun isn't enough to pull me back. They need to release a really cool two shot kill pistols, a single shot, no shotguns. My favorite, I have spent 50 dollars just on pistols on that game. It was worth it, pistols are way better than any other type of gun. Either way, I should probably play Minecraft or something, that was what I was doing. Or maybe I should layyy down and let the sleeping pills take effect, I can barely open my eyes anymore due to sleepiness, but I have one more machine I want to make, just one more. I'll automate copper generation for my factories.
Click to expand...
sleep-patrick.gif
 
@Eseseso Please start counting votes.

Anyway, Asriel's arguments are more convincing and he seems more likely than Marisa to pull out haxes that would beat her.

I vote for Asriel
 
Ya know how I said I was done with this? I lied. For now
Been looking at the arguments, and I’m voting Marisa. Arguments for Azzy ain’t really that convincing

That is all.
 
I'd lean towards Marisa as i don't really see/agree with Asriel immediately leading with his EE. If we assume he's going to lead with it, it runs into the issue of Marisa having her own instant win, which would make this an incon.

I'm not sure if this match would be able to be added to profiles either? It seems like if you think Asriel wins that it's just a stomp because he'd frame 1 hit a win button by the current profiles.
 
Catbowtie said:
Okay. That comes off as passive aggressive. The entirety of like the 2nd and 3rd pages were pretty much figuring out how Marisa wins, then talking about how True Reset works then finally falling on (basically) "Either way, Asriel starts with his Win Condition"



Why Asriel info nukes Marisa?
Click to expand...
I didn't mean for it to come off as Passive Aggressive, I just can't add votes if they don't have reasons attached, even if it's just "fra".
 
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