Why are FT characters MHS+

[The_Calaca]

Natsu's listed as MHS+ for dodging Laxus's lightning but in the same blog with the calc there are many people arguing that Laxus's lightning shouldn't be considered as real so why is even listed as such?

I recently knew that before this FT characters were Hypersonic-High Hypersonic. I honestly feel like this is just the way to accept Erza's feat as non-outlierish despite the several differences between Laxus's lightning and real lightning.

So why is even considered as real? It has nothing but one similarity.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

There were big threads for this, iirc.

 

[Davidsteel1]

It is only considered as real lightning if it has demonstrated at a minimum a few properties that real lightning has. Some examples are: making muscles of affected beings contract, having an (electro)magnetic field, being shown to actually move with a speed similar to lightning, flowing through conducting materials, the character being able to manipulate real electricity or electromagnetism in general, generating ozone or causing electrolysis.

This is gotten straight from the lightning dodging feat page; Laxus' Lightning satisfies a number of these criteria;

-upon striking Natsu and Gajeel they both complained of the lightning affecting their muscles and their ability to move

-In terms of being able to be conducted Gajeel redirecting it by virtue of being metal is evidence enough

-it is noted that his lightning is particularly effective against machines by Freed suggesting electromagnetism

- and Laxus is shown on multiple occasions to call down cloud to ground lightning.

In essence there is more than 1 similarity.

And Burning is also correct that this matter has a particularly lengthy back and forth b4 it was accepted, it wasn't accepted at the drop of a hat I'll tell u hat.

 

[The_Calaca]

I remember the conductivity thing but not with the other things. Could you lend the scans?

 

[Antoniofer]

Conductivity and paralysis are characterist of electricity, not something unique of lightning; don't known anything beyond that tho (refering to FT).

 

[Davidsteel1]

I remember the conductivity thing but not with the other things. Could you lend the scans?

No problem


characters complain about being unable to move



Wall as a machine notes his previous weakness to lightning and Freed comments on how what would have an advantage has become an issue for Laxus. I'm paraphrasing obviously but the message is still the same


Decided to go for the most recent one in this case

Not neat but it's hard to do all this on a phone

 

[The_Calaca]

Hum... I have my own opinions about the scans but I'll ask for them later.

 

[Davidsteel1]

Hum... I have my own opinions about the scans but I'll ask for them later.

Oh, how so? I mean what in the scans concerns u?

 

[The_Calaca]

Regarding the machine's stuff I don't know if that's the electromagnetism. It could be a mistranslation tho. But as I said I'll deep on them later. I need to think about them before posting my thoughts.

 

[Captain_Torch]

Can't send all of the threads, since this has been a discussion for years, but here's the final one:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...l#Proofs_of_Laxus.27_Lightning_Being_Real_One

 

[CNBA3]

Hum... I have my own opinions about the scans but I'll ask for them later.

they are accurate scan translations, unlike MS, MP or other websites.

 

[The_Calaca]

In the same blog FinalBattleX01 explained why we shouldn't accept this as real lightning and even I think we're just associating things regarding those scans.

First of all I don't think the cloud-to-ground lightnings are the same that Laxus spams from his body. Why? Because characters had been dodging them with ease while everysingle time Laxus uses the lightning coming from clouds the target doesn't dodge it. Unless you can show me otherwise.

Regarding Wahl we could say that's just a conductivity feat which is already listed with Gajeel acting like a lightning rod so it would be consistent with that but has nothing to do with the electromagnetism. If the scans are accurate translations then the electromagnetism should come from another or it never was stated as such. Freed say nothing about that in those scans.

And with the body acting numb. Yeah, it seems legit but it could be that Natsu and Gajeel couldn't move due to being tired or so much damaged to do so.

In the blog you posted the reasons were accepted just by one person (Antvasima) and it weren't discussed beyond that. And many people agreed with FinalBattleX01 that the lightning doesn't seem as real with the differences that he listed. Differences that I didn't used so all of what I wrote is added to the list of things that put in a dubtious state this feat as legit.

Forgive me if it sounds confusing. I'm trying to explain myself the better I can.

 

[BlackeJan]

Oh wow! always thought his Lightning was real. Well the only problem I had is that lower lvls scaling to the lightning and all

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

It'd be good if someone can find the thread(s) where this was formerly handled.

 

[Captain_Torch]

I'm iffy on scaling Laxus's lightning attacks as lightning speed as well, however Laxus should be lightning speed with his "lightning body", since he traveled from clouds to ground as lightning in Tenrou against Hades.

 

[BlackeJan]

I don't think he actually did that. Do u have scans though? cause he could had just used his Lightning yo jump high and come back down (how characters would do for dramatic appearance)

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

We're looking at massive downgrades if this goes through though. Except I'm missing something.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah most of the arcs pre Irene's MHS+ Deus Sema scale to Natsu dodging the lightning I think.

 

[CNBA3]

Jura managed to react and attack Laxus while he was in lightning body. And there is raging bolt which is described as descending from the heavens, which is comes down as lightning does, where Gajeel managed to save Natsu before his attack connects.

The majority and even admins agreed that his lightning is lightning speed.

 

[The_Calaca]

I'm still waiting for Mitch. I think he would argue against this so this isn't over yet.

 

[Captain_Torch]

@BlackeJan

Nah, it was him travelling as lightning. It's pretty straight forward tbh.

 

[The_Calaca]

@CNBA why isn't calced yet if it happened? It could be a better and more reliable feat to scaling.

 

[Davidsteel1]

For the record no u aren't confusing, your points were very clear.

-First things first, aside from the lightning coming from above there has been zero discernable difference between the lightning used in either circumstances by Laxus. The matter of when he fires it from his hands ppl dodge and when it comes from above no one dodges is circumstantial evidence at best, I can throw a jab and someone can dodge it and then I can throw a hook at the exact same speed in completely different circumstances and the person fails to dodge it, does the persons failure to dodge affect the fact that both moves were at the exact same speed or rather the fact that it was in a different circumstance is what makes the difference? Or here's a more apt example (particularly cuz I was avoiding bringing up one piece and FT in the same thread) Enel is capable of firing bolts of lightning from the sky but he is also capable of firing lightning from his hands does that make the lightning from his hands any slower than the one from above? Keeping in mind the fact that both Laxus and Enels powers are nearly identical.

-the degree to which a specified material conducts electricity, calculated as the ratio of the current density in the material to the electric field which causes the flow of current. That's the definition of conductivity, I don't think it really has anything to do with what happens to Wall

-No this wasn't just accepted by Ant, I remember vividly the long threads on this matter, it literally got so bad the topic had to be discussed separately by the admins too while the main thread was still going on. This wasn't a decision that had minimal involvement from anyone trust me.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

@CNBA why isn't calced yet if it happened? It could be a better and more reliable feat to scaling.

Either no one had time or didn't because they thought it would produce similar enough results to this calc that there wouldn't be any real point in doing it.

 

[CNBA3]

^^ with both above

 

[BlackeJan]

@BlackeJan

Nah, it was him travelling as lightning. It's pretty straight forward tbh.

Well this to me is actually better then the other Calcs we have lol.

 

[CNBA3]

Those calcs are not bad, they are pretty fine, and don't foget Jura as well

 

[BlackeJan]

Well even if the one that @Captn has is better, we still have to confirm or finish the rest of the debate whether Laxus Lightning is real or not

 

[CNBA3]

Well even "if" the debate is still going on, I agree that the lightning Laxus used was real from the proof shown, especially with conductivity, lightning coming from the sky, Lighting being born from both one's spirit and nature, even lightning effecting machines, if unprotected.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Alright, time to give my opinion on this

Laxus's Lightning is real lightning, magic in the Fairy Tail Verse has been described as Nature's power, magic flows through Nature and and it flows through everyone, Dragon Slayers can eat regular normal elements and it boosts them, that's because natural elements are very similar to their magic, not to mention Laxus's Lightning works almost exactly the same as normal lightning, and we have another MHS+ feat with Erza's Meteor to justify the feat as well, nothing really changes and I remember this being discussed heavily and it was agreed on completely when the calc was created

So I do believe we should keep the characters the same

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Imo what Aubin says makes sense

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Alright, time to give my opinion on this
Laxus's Lightning is real lightning, magic in the Fairy Tail Verse has been described as Nature's power, magic flows through Nature and and it flows through everyone, Dragon Slayers can eat regular normal elements and it boosts them, that's because natural elements are very similar to their magic, not to mention Laxus's Lightning works almost exactly the same as normal lightning, and we have another MHS+ feat with Erza's Meteor to justify the feat as well, nothing really changes and I remember this being discussed heavily and it was agreed on completely when the calc was created

So I do believe we should keep the characters the same

Then why isn't Stings light magic regarded as real light if it's natural?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Because Sting's Magic is descriped as White/Holy Magic, not inherently Light, His attacks work more like Ark from SDS, therefore Holy Power, I mean he ate a White Arrow, so it's clearly not Light as in Light Speed, also it bends

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I see, I understand.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

If the next previous feats that happened after this were only HHS wouldn't that make MHS+ an outlier anyway?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Trust me, if White Dragon Slayer Magic was real light, then we would have Light Speed, and I would be happy, but it's clearly more of a Holy Energy Magic

 

[DragonEmperor23]

What previous HHS feats?

 

[Davidsteel1]

If the next previous feats that happened after this were only HHS wouldn't that make MHS+ an outlier anyway?

Not really, considering every time Laxus decided to do anything related to his magic would already be in the MHS range

 

[CNBA3]

Out of all the DS magics, Sting's is the most confusing, because he was described to eat light as well as white.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

It's not really that confusing, maybe complex/abstract is a better word. His magic is White Dragonslayer magic and he can eat anything that is white which includes light.