Where does Weil scaling to Sigma, Axl and Lumine come from?

[Clyde_McReady]

I don't recall that ever being said. You could argue he killed Zero but it took Zero, Axl and X at the same time to beat Lumine so I don't think it's valid scaling. I can scale him from Sigma at least pre X7 but Axl is about the same level as Zero so Weil being stronger is plain wrong since he still was defeated by Zero alone. This doesn't change the stats at all, just wanted to leave this here before editing the page so you won't wonder why.

 

[BruceTheBatman]

MMZ Zero >=< Omega Zero with Dark Elf > Dark Elf >= X Era X, X Era Zero and Axl >= Omega >> Lumine (He fought them all at once but he didn't really do any significant damage to them, aside from KO'ing Axl. Omega on the other hand is implied to have killed Axl and drove X and Zero to desperate measures. This happened after they beat Vile and Sigma again. Lumine had no chance of winning from the start, while it's made clear Omega did even after slaughtering most of the Maverick Hunters) > Sigma => Vile >=< Axl


Weil is roughly comparable to Omega Zero and MMZ Zero, therefore he is superior to Sigma, Axl and Lumine by a very significant margin

 

[Clyde_McReady]

^That's a massive speculation. Some of that is even contradicted, Omega never killed or fought Axl in canon, canonically we don't even know if Axl survived X8 since you people disregard Command Mission. In fact, it's a major contradiction that X and Zero fought Omega when Omega is technically just the original body of Zero after being overwritten, if anything those feats aren't appliable since Omega got a new body. Redips on the other hand would wreck all other villains including Omega since he was actually beating the trio, unlike Omega who only fought X and Zero (according to you, never seen that in a game).

 

[BruceTheBatman]

^That's a massive speculation. Some of that is even contradicted, Omega never killed or fought Axl in canon, canonically we don't even know if Axl survived X8 since you people disregard Command Mission. In fact, it's a major contradiction that X and Zero fought Omega when Omega is technically just the original body of Zero after being overwritten, if anything those feats aren't appliable since Omega got a new body. Redips on the other hand would wreck all other villains including Omega since he was actually beating the trio, unlike Omega who only fought X and Zero (according to you, never seen that in a game).

1) Axl fights Omega in the Archie Comics which give us a glimpse of the Maverick Wars. He was probably just killed midway between the fight, leaving X and Zero to fight on their own. it isn't speculation. And nobody disregards Command Mission.

And if he wasn't killed by Omega (which is very likely), he was almost certainly killed by Copy X or his forces

2) Omega is also a heavily amped version of Zero, as Weil is stated to have "drawn out his full power", or something along those lines

3) Redips wouldn't stand a chance against Omega, with or without the Dark Elf. He curbed Fefnir and Leviathan at the same time who are > X Era X since they are comparable to Harpuia, who managed to survive a fight with Elpizo, the same guy who OHK'd X's body and is considerably weaker than the aforementioend Omega

4

 

[Reppuzan]

It's less a matter of Archie Comics and more a matter of scaling from the X series.

As I went over extensively with you before, Clyde, the current Mega Man timeline makes no mention of exemption between the X timeline after X5 and Zero.

Weil fought Zero, who in turn defeated Omega, who inhabited an extremely amplified version of Zero's original body which took down Lumine.

Hence Weil scales as well.

 

[Clyde_McReady]

Not only do I hate the ARchie comics like the head of blasphemy they are, but they're also non canon, get over it. Axl never woke up, Lumine killed him, either that or like I told you before the Zero series ignores X7 and on. Yes they disregard Command Mission, everyone does, Reppuzan called it non canon and you agreed.

Copy X didn't exist at the time, you're relying on fallacies and theories, it's ridiculous and can be penalized.

2) Yet he lacked the amps and armors from last games, that and Weil lied and bluffed a lot through the fight, like the Guardians told Zero.

3)All the Guardians are goddamn fodder to X era X, better, they're fodder to Copy X who is fodder to Real X. Zero said so, and I trust him an awful lot more than you. The scaling you propose is so miserably long and stretchy it's just plain fallacious.

 

[Clyde_McReady]

Zero called Copy X too weak compared to the Original, Copy X told the guardians they wouldn't even stand a chance together, Redips stomped the trinity while Omega on his prime got rekt by Zero and X with no amps whatsoever. Redips > X > Omega> Copy X > Guardians. Kung fu means jack here.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Clyde

The Guardians still clashed with Zero-era Zero, who is superior to X-Era Zero. Hence they're not fodder.

Zero said Copy X was weaker than X, he never said that Copy X was fodder.

You're being ridiculous.

 

[Clyde_McReady]

"You're no match for him, leave." Copy X to the Guardians before fighting Zero.

"Weak. Too weak. Was the original X this weak?" Zero's exact words after beating Copy X. Don't be condescending, Rep, only one of us has the four games and played them multiple times to get the quotes right, and that's me. Stop making fallacies if you don't want to get called out.

 

[Clyde_McReady]

I don't even know why you whine so much about this, I already said this doesn't change Weil's level since he scales to Omega and Sol Titanion.

 

[Clyde_McReady]

On a more important note, am I the only one who imagined Tim Curry as the voice of Weil? He sounds perfectly like him.

 

[BruceTheBatman]

@Clyde

Too weak? X would've been stomped just as hard since Zero defeated Dark Elf/Omega fused, both of whom are easily stronger than X ever was. He may have simply anticipated a more difficult fight akin to X5 despite memory loss

He's not even making a fallacy though.

Weil is > Lumine, Sigma and Axl

 

[Reppuzan]

@Clyde

He never says too weak. He just says weak.

Zero: "Yowai na..." (Weak...)

Copy X: "Nan da to?!" (What did you say?!)

Zero: "Originaru no X wa, sonna yowakatta no wa?" (Was the original X... really this weak?)

Saying that Copy X is not as powerful as the original X due to the difference in their convictions, combat experience, and weaponry is not the same as calling him fodder.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Bruce

I would not say that Weil is stronger than Lumine, given that Weil is not a combat Reploid but a modified human who abuses his body's regenerative capabilities and revives dead Reploids to do the fighting for him or fuses with Ragnarok to fight.

In addition, I heavily doubt that Zero-era X would have been stomped by Zero, otherwise there would have been no point in X participating in the battle against Omega.

Stop taking the conversation in ways that it's not meant to go.

 

[BruceTheBatman]

@Reppu

I'm referring to Weil in his Core Form, which is where he is listed as "Superior to Lumine, Axl and Sigma"

Zero Era Zero easily defeated Base Omega who is = Elf Wars Zero and Zero Era X, and matched Dark Elf/Omega, although he likely would've lost without the Guardians, who only really provided minor help and even in the first game the 3 of them wouldn't have been able to defeat Zero (They, along with Copy X and the previous bosses, didn't even hurt Zero to the point where he was remotely tired, given he went one-man army for a year afterwards). He would at least come close to stomping X.

Fair enough

 

[Reppuzan]

@Bruce

Yes, Omega overpowered Leviathan and Fefnir, but that was primarily due to Omega's regenerative abilities keeping them from doing any significant damage.

It's ridiculous to say that Zero would stomp X when they've always been portrayed as equals, not to mention the fact that X stalemated the Dark Elf single-handedly.

 

[Clyde_McReady]

@Clyde
Too weak? X would've been stomped just as hard since Zero defeated Dark Elf/Omega fused, both of whom are easily stronger than X ever was. He may have simply anticipated a more difficult fight akin to X5 despite memory loss

He's not even making a fallacy though.

Weil is > Lumine, Sigma and Axl

False, you're pulling fallacies out of thin air again.

@Rep

What freaking game did you play? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_84NGbHyWuE&t=555s

10:34 Nuff said. Maybe you'll think twice before treating me as if I didn't know a game I played three times in a row.

 

[Clyde_McReady]

@Reppu
I'm referring to Weil in his Core Form, which is where he is listed as "Superior to Lumine, Axl and Sigma"

Zero Era Zero easily defeated Base Omega who is = Elf Wars Zero and Zero Era X, and matched Dark Elf/Omega, although he likely would've lost without the Guardians, who only really provided minor help and even in the first game the 3 of them wouldn't have been able to defeat Zero (They, along with Copy X and the previous bosses, didn't even hurt Zero to the point where he was remotely tired, given he went one-man army for a year afterwards). He would at least come close to stomping X.

Fair enough

But this is false too and you know it.If Base Omega you mean the armored form then no, he was defeated by X and Zero, so he is lower, he didn't teambust them like Redips who would have dumped on him since he held his own against them and Axl before even transforming. No one would stomp X. Not even in your dreams. The Guardians weren't even needed, they only inmobilized a weakened Omega so Zero could charge his shot.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Clyde

The radio drama uses the original Japanese script (meaning not marred by translation issues). Hence it's the most accurate representation of the original conversation.

I'm fully willing to close this thread based on your tone alone because you're rarely respectful with these threads.

 

[Clyde_McReady]

@Clyde
The radio drama uses the original Japanese script (meaning not marred by translation issues). Hence it's the most accurate representation of the original conversation.

I'm fully willing to close this thread based on your tone alone because you're rarely respectful with these threads.

Bull, that's secondary canon, in the end it's subjective and an impass for us both

Oh, I'm respectful, you're just overly sensitive and close threads you can't win like a "player".

 

[Dark649]

I agree with Reppuzan.

 

[Clyde_McReady]

^Close it then, I made my case, he did not but I can live with it.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Clyde

The original Japanese script form the game is far from secondary canon and you've been repeatedly confrontational.

Treating threads as things to "win" isn't a good approach at all and you seem to be accusing me of abusing my authority simply because I disagree with you based on the evidence at hand.

This is the second time you've acted like this and it's really inappropriate.

In any case, this thread has been heavily derailed, so I'm closing this.