What tier does this qualify for? (Potential grey area)

[Aeyu]

A being which is native to/possesses power from a realm beyond dimensions as a mathematical premise, as in uncountably/indescribably more complex than infinite spatiotemporal dimensions, but not superior to concepts on a Platonic/philosophical level, or all maths and extrapolations thereof?

 

[Anonimoe7875]

At least High 1-B

 

[Aeyu]

Doesn't reach 1-A? Or is it just a grey area?

 

[Anonimoe7875]

It's very likely a 1-A feat, High 1-B is just a safer low-end.

 

[Aeyu]

So where would such a being scale in terms of power? Are there other comparable characters to a range like the one I mentioned? Could they have True-Godly regen? Or would that only be a possible?

 

[Reppuzan]

This is an awfully specific description.

I don't know if possessing power from such a realm would qualify you for this state, since our definition for High 1-B refers to characters who exist in infinite dimensions and 1-A characters exist beyond dimensions.

 

[Aeyu]

Well, I meant that in reference to where they stand in terms of strength. And which state? The True Godly, the High 1-B or the 1-A thing? This is a character who surpasses dimensions mathematically (as in, mathematically definable by a variable, up to infinity) but does not transcend all concepts, which is what I meant by Platonism (Forms). They are indescribably beyond infinite dimensions, but are not beyond maths and sets altogether.

 

[Reppuzan]

Transcending dimensions themselves is a 1-A feat.

However, if you're merely beyond infinite dimensions and have not transcended the concept of dimensions themselves, you're High 1-B.

Infinity doesn't mean much when you get to Tier 1.

 

[Aeyu]

So even if you exist in a dimensionless, abstract mathematical space with no spatial/temporal direction whatsoever, are they still considered High 1-B due to not transcending the CONCEPTS of things themselves, even though they transcend infinity, time and space? Like, for instance, they cannot be represented by a point in a space with any dimensions, and that could be considered to be infinitesmal in a way which cannot be represented except through an undefined variable.

That being said, could such a character have True Godly regen? Since their essence is dimensionless, and does not embody spatial dimensions?

Would High 1-B have two layers then, similar to High 3-A? One, where it consists of infinite or multiple sets of infinite dimensions, and then one where they are superior to dimensions themselves, and are possibly abstract or at a conceptual level, but not completely beyond *all* concepts at like, a magical, completely unknowable level (if that is what it takes to be a 1-A)

 

[Ultima_Reality]

If said being is native to such location, then yes, they are 1-A

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

This is High 1-B IMO.

A higher end of High 1-B than normal yes. However since said character is still bound by mathematical concepts then it is still High 1-B since 1-A's are above every mathematical concept and equation.

 

[Aeyu]

That...is interesting. So basically, even though it's beyond dimensions in their entirety (maybe even the concept or even many concepts), and has no dimensional properties whatsoever, but is still definable via maths or logic, it still qualifies for a High 1-B since it's not conceptually above all definition? Could that maybe be better clarified in the Tiering System so that this kind of misconception doesn't happen anymore, like the finite 4-D High 3-A thing?

Or is it at least, or is it 1-A?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well technically you can't be beyond dimensions and still be bound by the laws of logic and math.

This is probably at best "At least High 1-B likely 1-A" similar to the downstreamers since we can say with absolute certainty that it is a solid 1-A.

 

[Aeyu]

Why couldn't you? Similar to 11-C, which is definable by having 0 dimensions, (a point in a system) you could have a being which has no dimensions, but is superior to an infinite-dimensional being in complexity, and be unrepresentable in a system by a point or number of directions/spatial/temporal dimensions, but then, they are only just undefined and barely beyond dimensions conceptually, but not beyond all logic or conceptualizations. It could have other alien physical "properties," as well, which might be capable of being recognized if a dimensional object could exist in this native, undefined space.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well I'm not sure. I still think that High 1-B or 1-A is fine in this case.

The thing is that 1-A's as per definition can't be bound to the mathematical concepts and this character by your definition only seems to possess power from a dimensionless realm but is still bound to mathematical concepts. Which is why I said High 1-B possibly 1-A.

However im no expert in this so im going to see what anyone else thinks about this.

 

[Aeyu]

Well, the main reason I ask is because it sort of contradicts the qualifications for both tiers while being definable by either the very highest end of one or the very lowest of the other. It would be nice to get others' opinions on this, as well. This could also help if any characters in the future embody dimensionless properties.

 

[Golden_Void]

"Take note that even if a character is a more than countably infinite number of times superior to an infinite-dimensional space, or similar, it would still usually only qualify for High 1-B, as long as the character does not transcend the concepts of time and space altogether."

I think this is 1-A. However when you say not superior to concepts, is that also referring to dimensions?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I'll be a dumbass here and ask to clarify, what's the difference between being beyond and being transcendant? I kinda just want to know the direct difference to make sure.

 

[Golden_Void]

They're synonymous. To transcend means to go beyond the boundaries of something.

 

[Aeyu]

Well, at least spatial and temporal ones. There is such a thing as a dimensionless property, where basically a physical attribute can exist in the realm of math/physics that is still explainable through math, but not representable by numbers or number concepts. It could be above dimensions in terms of complexity, and under this premise could be a spatially and temporally dimensionless space where any/no vertices or points can be drawn as a background.

When I say not superior to concepts I mean all physical/abstract notions, which seem to be a defining trait of 1-A characters. The space is still dimensionless, but not totally unknowable.

 

[Aeyu]

Also. how would a being at this level pair up vs High 1-B's and 1-A's?

 

[Golden_Void]

Might have to get DarkLK for this one :^)

As for your last question, probably destroys 1-Bs, 1-As depend on the hax.

 

[Aeyu]

Might have to. I would love to get staff's thoughts on this, as it not only might clear up any misunderstandings in the future, but also might help with the creation of a few new profiles.

The biggest question is if they could have True Godly regen, IMO.

 

[Golden_Void]

I'm not too sure about all that. The Choushin are 1-A, yet they don't have true godly regen.

 

[Aeyu]

It doesn't look like they have Regenerationn at all. But if they did, wouldn't it be True Godly since the Hyperdimension is an outerversal realm?

 

[Golden_Void]

I'm not sure if being a high tier automatically grants immortality.

 

[Aeyu]

Immortality? Wouldn't a 1-A automatically have type 10? Couldn't this hypothetical have that as well, based on the definition of type 10?

 

[Golden_Void]

"1-A entities (beyond the concepts of dimensions of space and time) always have High-Godly Regenerationn (given that they are above existence per definition), but not automatically the highest rating. In order to qualify, such beings must also have displayed the capacity to recover from complete outerversal destruction, or be logically capable of doing so."

And meta-immortality, so that means some pages might be getting new abilities :^)

 

[Aeyu]

But COULD this hypothetical have it? Not that they do by definition, of course.

And maybe they should, based off of definition. Not that I can help, of course x-x

I hope some more staff/users have some opinions about where this being could be at, since some are confident in a High 1-B rating, some are confident in an At least High 1-B rating, and some like 1-A. I feel like there needs to be some sort of consensus.

 

[Aeyu]

Would it be better to ask this question in the Q&A board?

 

[Xmark12]

It seems like "at least High 1-B", since it's "uncountably/indescribably more complex than infinite spatiotemporal dimensions" to me, but at the same time it also says that it's "beyond dimensions".

Methinks it should go something like this: At least High 1-B, possibly 1-A for reasons I said above, though it would definitely be like a base 1-A, since it's not beyond concepts on a Platonic/philosophical level.

(This is why we need Low 1-A. =3)

 

[Aeyu]

Yeah, see, that's the thing I don't get, though. Where does High 1-B end and 1-A begin? Can a dimensionless being be High 1-B, or are they 1-A even though they don't transcend all concepts?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yeah, see, that's the thing I don't get, though. Where does High 1-B end and 1-A begin? Can a dimensionless being be High 1-B, or are they 1-A even though they don't transcend all concepts?

The Chaos Gods are dimensionless by nature, but they don't have 1-A feats or statements (that I know of).

 

[Xmark12]

well, the 1-A is more a hypothetical thing, and the High 1-B is more concrete. Think of it like different possibilities. This character seems to lean more towards the High 1-B side, but you can make the case for them to be possibly 1-A

Hence why I said "At least High 1-B, possibly 1-A".

The Attack Potency would go something like this: At least High Hyperverse level (Uncountably/indescribably more complex than infinite spatiotemporal dimensions), possibly Outerverse level (Is beyond dimensions, though bound by concepts on a Platonic/philosophical level)

 

[Aeyu]

Yeah, see, that's the thing I don't get, though. Where does High 1-B end and 1-A begin? Can a dimensionless being be High 1-B, or are they 1-A even though they don't transcend all concepts?

The Chaos Gods are dimensionless by nature, but they don't have 1-A feats or statements (that I know of).

Isn't that why they're possibly higher? The fact that it's unknown if there is an infinite number of dimensions? Wouldn't that likely put them at this high part of High 1-B where dimensions are no longer a thing but they're not beyond all concepts?

And that's why I was saying maybe it could be a minor note added to High 1-B or 1-A clarifying whether or not it qualifies for either, I mean that feels like kind of a vague rating, although I understand the logic behind it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

You don't need an infinite number of dimensions to be 1-A, but yes, they are possibly higher because it's vague, which is what it usually is in cases like this, due to simply being above infinite dimensions still possibly being High 1-B, in many cases.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Then I suppose either "At least High 1-B possibly 1-A" or "At least High 1-B likely higher" could work.

 

[Aeyu]

That's true. In context, though, could a 12 dimensional multiverse structure be stated to be transcended beyond infinitely (as in, an infinite amount of "levels" above that), but not to the level of being beyond all concepts? Would that still qualify for that range, or be something different? I just find that this is kind of a grey area because to be 1-A it says you need to be beyond the concept of dimensions, but lower beings like the Chaos Gods are only maybe High 1-B, because they don't transcend ALL concepts.

 

[Aeyu]

Would this thread be better off in the Questions and Answers board instead?

 

[Xmark12]

I guess it would be, yeah.