Tiering System Revisions: Tier 0

[Agnaa]

So not just omnipotence, not just omnipotence for a character with a R>F difference, but preferably invoking logical possibility, without conflating it with mathematical possibility (as that would nerf it to just Low 1-A)?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Either way: From what can be gathered, the margin of agreement-to-disagreement is 8 to 1, so far, and Qaws hasn't been around to this in a hot minute despite the recent ping. In my mind there is no necessity for further reinforcement, either, so, I'd say it's fine to call the wraps on this.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Either way: From what can be gathered, the margin of agreement-to-disagreement is 8 to 1, so far, and Qaws hasn't been around to this in a hot minute despite the recent ping. In my mind there is no necessity for further reinforcement, either, so, I'd say it's fine to call the wraps on this.

@Antvasima

 

[Antvasima]

@Qawsedf234

Do you want to add anything here?

 

[Tanin_iver]

Either way: From what can be gathered, the margin of agreement-to-disagreement is 8 to 1, so far, and Qaws hasn't been around to this in a hot minute despite the recent ping.

Considering the fact that this thread is almost done, I hope it is fine to ask some queries related to this thread and the previous one?
As you have stated in the previous thread:

I fully agree that the perfect extent of certain abilities, like Transduality for example, are completely different from even what I refer to as a qualitative superiority. Indeed, a truly transdual character can't really be said to have a "qualitative superiority" (Or even a "meta-qualitative" superiority, which is what I defined High 1-A as), because it would be above qualities to begin with. By that token, equating it to a qualitative superiority is as much of a category error as equating a qualitative superiority to a quantitative superiority.

So, if you get me a character that's essentially a perfect portrayal of Transduality, for example (Which is to say, most robust description possible with no contradictions to that status whatsoever), I'll have no issue with saying that character is Tier 0, for the same reasons I say R>F and BDE are inherently above dimensional jumps.

What I want to know is how will we deal with a character who is explicitly stated to be Transdual/completely transcendent to the distinction between Reality & Unreality while also not having enough evidence or necessarily a perfect portrayal of Transduality.
Said character cannot be just 1-A cos its just a R>F difference while the character completely transcends this quality. Will it just be 1 layer into 1-A? Will it be High 1-A/Meta-Qualitative layer or something even higher?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Considering the fact that this thread is almost done, I hope it is fine to ask some queries related to this thread and the previous one?
As you have stated in the previous thread:

What I want to know is how will we deal with a character who is explicitly stated to be Transdual/completely transcendent to the distinction between Reality & Unreality while also not having enough evidence or necessarily a perfect portrayal of Transduality.
Said character cannot be just 1-A cos its just a R>F difference while the character completely transcends this quality. Will it just be 1 layer into 1-A? Will it be High 1-A/Meta-Qualitative layer or something even higher?

Depends. "Reality/Unreality" might very well not be a dichotomy that's actually indicative of power whatsoever. For instance, in DC, the Sphere of the Gods and its realms are referred to as "fictions" where the physical realm is reality, but the former are not really ontologically inferior to the latter. A verse can treat "unreality" as just a parallel, comparable state of existence to reality if it wants, in which case I don't think that'd have a concrete tier.

If the "Reality/Unreality" dichotomy in question is actually "the distinction between non-1-A and 1-A," though, or something like that, then transcending it would be High 1-A at least.

@Tanin_iver Kudo this post to signal if you're satisfied with the answer, or talk to me elsewhere about it. It's been almost a week since Qaw said he's been planning to input here, and he's been online throughout that period, during which he didn't reply to two tags. I believe it is more than fair to just move on, at this rate, so, I'm about to close this thread down.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Do you want to add anything here?

Stuff happened since then, so sorry about the lack of participation. Though personally I don't think I would've added a major argument to anything so I got nothing against Ultima closing the thread and moving on.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you to everybody who helped out here.

 

[Firestorm808]

Okay. Thank you to everybody who helped out here.

To clarify, what is the next step?

Drafting the new FAQ and Tier list changes?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

To clarify, what is the next step?

Drafting the new FAQ and Tier list changes?

Yes. And rewriting the explanation pages accordingly. I'm working on that as we speak.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out.

It wouĺd also be great if you set up a revision thread for modifying all VSBW pages with affected tiers in them, and if our knowledgeable staff members help you out with this endeavour.