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Weiss, the Rat Exterminator

WeeklyBattles said:
Stands and Aura are very different in how they function, saying 'it works on stands thereofre it works on aura' is a false equivalency
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Eficiente said:
Obviously stands=/=aura in many ways, but they are fundamentally "the same" in the sense that they are manifestations of the soul and related to the soul. The differences and different feats they have is not prove that they aren't comparable soul manifestations;

Having passive Attack Reflection to the body (or really just a power) doesn't make "a thing" no longer being that "thing". If in a verse somebody's water has passive Attack Reflection to the person, other person of other verse that can manipulate water will still be able to affect it, as is still water. Same here. Same with dozens of other examples I can give with the false evidence given here to say that stands=/=aura. A real argument would be talk about the structure of how stands/aura is made, or its level of intangiability.
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Once again, no. Ratt's attacks have not shown to bypass forcefields. Ratt's attack is not a soul attack. Aura doesnt do damage transfer like Stands do.
 
You need to have actual proof that Ratt's attacks bypass forcefields in order to argue that he would ignore Weiss' aura and melt her through it
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Efi Aura is made of energy projected by the soul and it is 100% tangible
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Eh, I'm more or less satisfied with this argument. Ok.
 
How about it melts/damages her aura until it depletes and then melts Weiss? It fires in bursts so it can do it pretty easily. In the last thread, Pol required 12 or so hits. Bug requires less. Two bursts are enough to deplete her aura.
 
I don't remember if I voted or not, but I'm actually gonna vote incon. While I don't think Ratt can bypass Aura, he can destroy it very quickly via AP advantage
 
Thing is, not only will it not one-shot Weiss's aura, but she has many ways to avoid it as well. Ice barriers, certain glyphs, partying with her sword, and most notable, the almighty hax known as dodging, all the while her aura regenerates if she's not hit again. Given her better weaponry, tactics and much better experience and Bug Eaten being a rat, she'll land her fatal hit well before the rat will, especially with Time Glyphs on her side.
 
lmao

Why would she do all that to a rat? That's why Polnareff won, people keep saying "lol speed boost" "lol freeze", yet there's no reason to do such thing to someone who looks unarmed such as Polnareff. Same with Bug-Eaten here, she sees only a rat and not a mini WW2 cannon aimed at her. She'll just walk up to it and step on it.
 
Without her barriers she's 8-C and he's High 8-C. Yes, she can dodge or make a barrier. But if Ratt does hit, it one shots the Aura, and if he does if again it one shots her. Thats why I'm voting incon
 
Firstly, standard battle assumptions has her know her target, and she doesn't have the weakness of being cocky. Secondly, she knows that something is depleting her aura at a massive rate and pretty sure SBA has her know that it's the rat. Thirdly, SBA has her able to see the Stand, so she sees some Grimm looking monster controlled by the rat. Weiss is really smart, after all. Fourthly, speaking of Grimm, even if everything I said before in this paragraph is wrong, she'll probably assume the rat is one, given they're trying to kill each other. Weiss doesn't hold back against Grimm.

Weekly, I'm saving Weiss from melting with my debating skills. You owe me one ovo.
 
Bug isn't high 8-C he's 8-C+ with an ap lower than Weiss' durability, he's not oneshotting through ap any time soon
 
The real cal howard said:
Firstly, standard battle assumptions has her know her target, and she doesn't have the weakness of being cocky. Secondly, she knows that something is depleting her aura at a massive rate and pretty sure SBA has her know that it's the rat. Thirdly, SBA has her able to see the Stand, so she sees some Grimm looking monster controlled by the rat. Weiss is really smart, after all. Fourthly, speaking of Grimm, even if everything I said before in this paragraph is wrong, she'll probably assume the rat is one, given they're trying to kill each other. Weiss doesn't hold back against Grimm.
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Knowledge of the other character/verse: The fighters will have absolutely no prior knowledge of each other.

Also RWBY characters can't see stands no matter what you say, they have nothing like Soul Manipulation and the like

Nick-young-confused-face-300x256-nqlyaa
 
The real cal howard said:
Thing is, not only will it not one-shot Weiss's aura, but she has many ways to avoid it as well. Ice barriers, certain glyphs, partying with her sword, and most notable, the almighty hax known as dodging, all the while her aura regenerates if she's not hit again. Given her better weaponry, tactics and much better experience and Bug Eaten being a rat, she'll land her fatal hit well before the rat will, especially with Time Glyphs on her side.
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Hm. That's actually a compelling argument.

I'll change my vote to Weiss.
 
As Weekly said before, the aura is tangible energy, while Ratt's hax affects non-corporeal beings, seems reasonable to say that there is no biology to affect here as it's not "non-corporeal biology".
 
The real cal howard said:
Firstly, standard battle assumptions has her know her target, and she doesn't have the weakness of being cocky. Secondly, she knows that something is depleting her aura at a massive rate and pretty sure SBA has her know that it's the rat. Thirdly, SBA has her able to see the Stand, so she sees some Grimm looking monster controlled by the rat. Weiss is really smart, after all. Fourthly, speaking of Grimm, even if everything I said before in this paragraph is wrong, she'll probably assume the rat is one, given they're trying to kill each other. Weiss doesn't hold back against Grimm.

Weekly, I'm saving Weiss from melting with my debating skills. You owe me one ovo.
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That is literally the exact opposite of what SBA says about hracarer knowledge
 
SHE doesn't know what the rat can do, no. Never claimed that. SBA does allow however her to know that the rat is a threat, so long as she doesn't have arrogance as a weakness.

Being able to see stands has always been a rule in VSBW, since before even I came here. That alongside being able to see Bleach characters. At worst, you have to have some equivalent energy type, like ki or chakra or...aura.
 
@Cal IIRC it used to be like that, but relatively sure the "anyone can see stands" rule was changed so they're treated as invisible nowadays.

Other than that, carry on.
 
Last few Jojo threads I saw there was a lot of arguments based on invisible stands.
 
It was revised so they're considered invisible in threads, yes. I'm just not invested enough to go and search for the exact thread when Jojo has like a ton of them, lol
 
ZephyrosOmega said:
Ratt hasn't shown the ability to work on stands.
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Gotta fix this misinformation real quick:

Jotaro by his own admission has said that Star Platinum melted when he touched the dart.

Ratt shoots at Weiss, lands one in her neck and both her and her aura start melting into a puddle.

Didn't I bring this up in Ratt vs Kira?

Wrong
 
The real cal howard said:
Being able to see stands has always been a rule in VSBW, since before even I came here. That alongside being able to see Bleach characters. At worst, you have to have some equivalent energy type, like ki or chakra or...aura.
Click to expand...
Appeal to tradition, right Dargoo?

Times have changed, non-stand users fighting stand users has been a thing in JoJo since the 80s/90s my friend, it's in the damn source material (see Gyro vs Ringo Roadagain, Wekapipo vs Magent Magent, Kosaku Kawajiri vs Kira, etc etc etc).

There's no reason to give others the ability to see stands other than to make a character have an unrealistic advantage that they wouldn't normally have. It's not necessary to have a fight between the two in JoJo, it's not necessary to have a fight between the two on VsBattles.

TL;DR - You need to see on a spiritual level or have the ability to manipulate your own soul in order to be able to see a stand.
 
Okay, let's see the arguments for Weiss *cracks fingers*

- Speed amp with actual calcs to support that she gets a 3x speed boost

- High 8-C ice dust that can instantly kill BE, can't even incap with that kind of AP

- Glyphs to protect her from BE's attacks

- Intangible homing attacks

- "better" tactics

Bug-Eaten

- literally an invisible stand that she cannot see or perceive at all, making it absolutely and utterly null and void 1000% that she will use all of the above on a rat.

See, she loses here like how she did to Polnareff, because of an invisible stand that she cannot interact with. There is no reason for her to go all out on a single rat.
 
Anyway, if Weiss wins, who's making Weiss vs Saitama? ovo

I do agree, however, that while she will know she needs to kill a rat, the possibilty of her treating it particularly serious is slim, especially after the fact that Grimm are much scarier I never thought I would ever bring up something like this and she can fodderize most of them.
 
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