- 32,835
- 38,104
Pretty sure you got ninja'd on that regard.Also Devil Fruits and Semblances from RWBY count too, as they are far more similar to Quirks and X-Genes.
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Pretty sure you got ninja'd on that regard.Also Devil Fruits and Semblances from RWBY count too, as they are far more similar to Quirks and X-Genes.
Definitely fits this, Share Energy is directly stated to be a CPU's source of strength (and it's also why a lot of the profiles are formatted the way they are for their HDD Forms).
- Users need to have the capacity to use their powers to directly channel their power through physical objects in a way that quantifiably enhances them such as:
- Empowering and enhancing weapons
- Empowering the user’s own physical capabilities, such as their physical strikes
- Power described as “radiating throughout” the user’s body could certainly imply this
Although not all of the abilities aren't listed on the profiles yet, Share Energy is needed for them to use a lot of their abilities such as their HDD Forms.
- Users need to explicitly draw from singular sources for their myriad of abilities
A loss of all of a CPU's Share Energy leads them to death (or, if they're on the edge, makes them extremely weak).
- A removal of said power source needs to be represented as a dramatic loss in power for the user (even to the point of being no stronger than a normal human)
Share Energy is the most common source of energy in the series and is present throughout all three of the main games, so it fits for this.
- Needs to explicitly be a common source of power within the verse
- Not necessarily a main one but it needs to serve as a powersource for several characters
I mean, shouldn't they be able to empower their physical strength as well with enough training?Agreed.
If a verse has an energy system where everybody on the planet has the innate ability to use it, it won’t be allowed cause they can’t punch with it? That’s not fair
If you're talking about Aetheric Pariah, he only say Haki make more sense as applicable EUS.Pretty sure you got ninja'd on that regard.
Pretty sure I remember someone else talking about Devil Fruits.If you're talking about Aetheric Pariah, he only say Haki make more sense as applicable EUS.
He didn't say Devil Fruits should be used as an example of inapplicable EUS.
Ah yeah, i know remember that i already mention Devil Fruits when i was talking about Quirks and Mutant Genes, my bad.Pretty sure I remember someone else talking about Devil Fruits,
Ah yeah, i know remember that i already mention Devil Fruits when i was talking about Quirks and Mutant Genes, my bad.
Higher feats only being represented in environmental effects would simply be an instance of Environmental Destruction
Direct correlation needs to be established between the universal system and outright power or potential capabilities (Midichlorians)
Well for the most part, people are in agreement with Hellbeast's draft. But some, including me, think it's a little bit too inflexible at some parts. Mainly regarding external energy sources and who gets to tap into the universal energy source in case of a worldwide system where everyone can use it.I'm a little lost right now. What exactly are the conclusions that we've come to? I can't tell and a few people are saying a bit of conflicting things.
I was editing my post as you replied to me lmao, but yeah there are still some things I'm unsure of.Well for the most part, people are in agreement with Hellbeast's draft. But some, including me, think it's a little bit too inflexible at some parts parts. Mainly regarding external energy sources and who gets to tap into the universal energy source in case of a worldwide system where everyone can use it.
This is my suggestion definitely; if any blogs already exist that’d be perfect but if not it’d be a helpRead through the doc. The proposals look good, though I do wanna recommend one thing. For the verses that flat out qualify for the UES, if there are any blogs that these verses have that explain in detail how it scales to physical strength I’d recommend using those in the examples of those that qualify, just so that newcomers would get a better understanding on how say… Chakra and Demonic Energy scales Naruto and DMC respectively despite some visual inconsistencies with power.
thst could be neat; will addAnyway, one point I want to add or rephrase: in the criteria for universality/ability-scales-to-physicals-ness, there's a point about "losing the power is a major loss". I might also add that removing the power should be either extremely difficult or painful/traumatic to the person losing it, or possibly lethal (as that would evidence a connection between their physical being and the abilities).
Could you elaborate? I know there’s the empowerment thing but that’s just something we already use on the wikiI don't think I agree with the criteria used. Some of it seems rather... arbitrary.
Hmm well how would you change the criteria?With that said I absolutely agree that a standards page should exist for this concept. I just don't like that, for example, to qualify you must have some form of power that must be "common" within the verse.
I believe in a setting where everyone has innate access to the universal energy source and can enhance it via training should automatically qualify for getting Empowerment like that, not the other way around where you need to prove the existence of Empowerment to confirm a Universal Energy Source. Naruto and Dragon Ball are very obvious examples (Since both those verses repeatedly hammer down the fact that everyone can use ki/chakra, just that they'll have to train harder if they wanna grow stronger and have their ki/chakra reserves grow more controlled and potent). If anything, it should be a default assumption that in a verse with a tightly-integrated universal energy system people should be readily able to access and harness the UES's energy for their own means, especially for something as simple as enhancing their physical strength.Qualifying Criteria 1:
- Users need to have the capacity to use their powers to directly channel their power through physical objects in a way that quantifiably enhances them such as:
- Empowering and enhancing weapons
- Empowering the user’s own physical capabilities, such as their physical strikes
- Power described as “radiating throughout” the user’s body could certainly imply this
Looks fine at a glance.Qualifying Criteria 2:
- Users need to explicitly draw from singular sources for their myriad of abilities
Now that I look at it, it's kinna restricting. You just need to prove that they can tap into the universal energy source to use for all their attacks, physical, elemental, whatever. That's it. But it should work nicely as supporting evidence if mentioned.Qualifying Criteria 3:
- Direct correlation needs to be established between the universal system and outright power or potential capabilities (Midichlorians)
No problems here. You should also add that removal of said power source could also be represented as being able to cause excruciating pain/trauma or cause excess fatigue from which the character could potentially end up dying. So I'm perfectly fine with this.Qualifying Criteria 4:
- A removal of said power source needs to be represented as a dramatic loss in power for the user (even to the point of being no stronger than a normal human)
Seems okay, no problems here, though at some point you can expect these characters to eventually duke out against each other where the commonality of the energy source may become irrelevant and simple powerscaling should more or less even out the odds. Also I agree with the "core underpinning part", that should certainly help out as supporting evidence, that point should take more precedence than the system itself serving as a power source for the characters I believe.Qualifying Criteria 5:
- Needs to explicitly be a common source of power within the verse
- Not necessarily a main one but it needs to serve as a powersource for several characters
- If the said source is also a core underpinning to the verse’s metaphysical or natural elements this would certainly be a helpful piece of evidence (such as the Force “binding the universe together” and being tied to all life)
I share the same concerns as DDM and Axx regarding this (The totem portion specifically). If the Totem serves as a universal energy source for the entire verse, then it is fine for it to fall under the normal universal energy source guidelines. The rest seem fine, I think.Ineligible Criteria 1:
- Reliance upon an External source to access abilities such as:
- Totems being used to grant users assorted magical powers
- Magical weapons granting the use of mystical attacks the user cannot otherwise replicate
- Characters being wholly mundane without items would be a feat for the items and not the user
Not sure if I agree with this, just because it is a storm or creation feat or somesuch doesn't mean it suddenly falls out of favor of use, especially if they can then harness said power and focus it onto their bodies. Basically proves Axx's point. Without any direct statements or confirmations from the story itself, the only other surefire way you can scale Environmental Destruction Feats to yourself is via a universal energy system. Of course, if it's greatly above the character's usual showings (where the environmental effects attacks take considerably more effort than their normal showings), just leave it as its ultimate attack if it is offensive, or as a separate ED feat assuming it isn't used in an offensive manner.Ineligible Criteria 2:
- Higher feats only being represented in environmental effects would simply be an instance of Environmental Destruction
I'm fine with this, as long as you don't use it to downgrade a god-tier's feat just because the fodders have lower showings. Context matters immensely when dealing with stuff like this, a god-tier might have only one Universal feat but if the plot makes it to be an incredibly important event (Usually in the very end of a story where it surpasses everything else and there's no chance for fodder level enemies to even compare, just to show how OP the final god-tier boss is), then it's enough to suggest that the feat isn't an outlier. Otherwise, you might as well axe the universe-busting feat Goku has right now because he did it only once despite using God Ki and Super Saiyan God to amplify himself to levels that far surpass his DBZ self. And we both know that that's not gonna work in any scenario. But then again, I believe this specific Criteria is already rendered redundant with our Outlier policy page so...Ineligible Criteria 3:
- Attacks being "outliers" for a character's physical statistics can be used as evidence against it qualifying
Seems fine at a glance.Ineligible Criteria 4:
- Characters losing their energy source and still being capable of replicating the same feats
Yeah sure, why the hell not. MHA's Quirks are a great example. Endeavour serves to be one.Ineligible Criteria 5:
- Power sources being limited to only or two characters could imply it’s simply a an individual quirk, rather then anything larger
I brought this up earlier. The number of users really shouldn't matter, just how the individual's powers function.There's actually 1 thing I need to comment on.
- Power sources being limited to only or two characters could imply it’s simply a an individual quirk, rather then anything larger
Couldn't technically an individual have a power that functions like a UES but isn't quite a UES since it's only his power? I'm not quite sure how we'd treat it in that case.
That is indeed a slippery slope. But in cases where it does happen, we might have to discern the difference between their power-based attacks and physical attacks and whether they can use said power to amplify their physicals or if their power-based attacks are comparable in strength to their physical attacks, since it's a separate thing and not unified. At least, that's what we do with Johnny Storm and Endeavour.There's actually 1 thing I need to comment on.
- Power sources being limited to only or two characters could imply it’s simply a an individual quirk, rather then anything larger
Couldn't technically an individual have a power that functions like a UES but isn't quite a UES since it's only his power? I'm not quite sure how we'd treat it in that case.
Yeah, this.I brought this up earlier. The number of users really shouldn't matter, just how the individual's powers function.
- Needs to explicitly be a common source of power within the verse
- Not necessarily a main one but it needs to serve as a powersource for several characters
- If the said source is also a core underpinning to the verse’s metaphysical or natural elements this would certainly be a helpful piece of evidence (such as the Force “binding the universe together” and being tied to all life)
Power sources being limited to only or two characters could imply it’s simply a an individual quirk, rather then anything larger
I have updated my example, please re-check if you have the time.I'll follow KLOL's example and list my thoughts aswell
Eligible Criteria:
Well, this one I don't really see the issue
We can have multiple energies in a series, if every single one has feats of UES, then they should be fine, of course it's hard to see such a thing in a show, but I believe it's possible
for the Ineligible Criteria:
We can have one single user of a certain type of energy, if he has the feats for UES, it wouldn't be a problem to qualify as such despite him being the only user
Even if none of these are true, it can still be a UES. Weapons enhanced by energy are often weaker than just a massive energy blast. The AP might also heavily depent on the weapon. Like how sharp it is or how well it can conduct the energy. Not to mention, I can't think of an awful lot of verses that use energy in that way to begin with (or at the very least make a big point of it). UES can also apply when a character doesn't have a way to boosts physical characteristsic. If a character has a spell that creates lightning and one that creates fire and both use the same mana, we scale it via saying there is a UES. Physicals are just an additional thing that can be scaled be a UES. The energy source may also be external and not radiate within the body. There are several verses where magic is drawn from the surroundings. This doesn't mean it isn't a UES.
- Users need to have the capacity to use their powers to directly channel their power through physical objects in a way that quantifiably enhances them such as:
- Empowering and enhancing weapons
- Empowering the user’s own physical capabilities, such as their physical strikes
- Power described as “radiating throughout” the user’s body could certainly imply this
So does that mean characters like Naruto wouldn't have a UES since he can use several sources of energy?
- Users need to explicitly draw from singular sources for their myriad of abilities
Assuming I am understand this correctly, I can agree with that. If, for example, magic is just random reality warping with no real connection to AP, it shouldn't scale.
- Direct correlation needs to be established between the universal system and outright power or potential capabilities (Midichlorians)
If there is a character that is enhanced by said power 24/7, then yeah, they should be weaker without it.
- A removal of said power source needs to be represented as a dramatic loss in power for the user (even to the point of being no stronger than a normal human)
I dont see the point of this one. If there is only one character in a verse that can use lets say magic, why wouldn't it be a UES? That just seems like a very arbitrary criteria.
- Needs to explicitly be a common source of power within the verse
- Not necessarily a main one but it needs to serve as a powersource for several characters
- If the said source is also a core underpinning to the verse’s metaphysical or natural elements this would certainly be a helpful piece of evidence (such as the Force “binding the universe together” and being tied to all life)
Why exactly does this matter? Where the energy comes from shouldn't determine whether it's a UES. If an item grants the user mana to cast magic with, why wouldn't this be a UES? I honestly can't see a single valid reason for this.
- Reliance upon an External source to access abilities such as:
- Totems being used to grant users assorted magical powers
- Magical weapons granting the use of mystical attacks the user cannot otherwise replicate
- Characters being wholly mundane without items would be a feat for the items and not the user
Fully agree unless the verse is very specific about it. Characters scaling to some random clouds being created, even though they don't have any feats in the same ball park, is just crazy to me, ngl. This is even worse when physical abilities are scaled to it.
- Higher feats only being represented in environmental effects would simply be an instance of Environmental Destruction
Fully agree on this as well. I already stated why I agree with this in the very beginning.
- Attacks being "outliers" for a character's physical statistics can be used as evidence against it qualifying
I feel like there might be exceptions to this. For example, maybe a spell continues to work after being casted, regardless of whether the character still has any mana left.
- Characters losing their energy source and still being capable of replicating the same feats
I fail to see how this matters.
- Power sources being limited to only or two characters could imply it’s simply a an individual quirk, rather then anything larger
Pretty much agree with thisOK, so I re-read the document again and these are my thoughts:
I believe in a setting where everyone has innate access to the universal energy source and can enhance it via training should automatically qualify for getting Empowerment like that, not the other way around where you need to prove the existence of Empowerment to confirm a Universal Energy Source. Naruto and Dragon Ball are very obvious examples (Since both those verses repeatedly hammer down the fact that everyone can use ki/chakra, just that they'll have to train harder if they wanna grow stronger and have their ki/chakra reserves grow more controlled and potent). If anything, it should be a default assumption that in a verse with a tightly-integrated universal energy system people should be readily able to access and harness the UES's energy for their own means, especially for something as simple as enhancing their physical strength.
Them being able to empower their weapons with it is a plus honestly. But it shouldn't be used to leave out people that have innate access to the UES but don't use it to amplify the strength of their bodies because reasons. It should be fine as supporting evidence, however.
Looks fine at a glance.
Now that I look at it, it's kinna restricting. You just need to prove that they can tap into the universal energy source to use for all their attacks, physical, elemental, whatever. That's it. But it should work nicely as supporting evidence if mentioned.
No problems here. You should also add that removal of said power source could also be represented as being able to cause excruciating pain/trauma or cause excess fatigue from which the character could potentially end up dying. So I'm perfectly fine with this.
Seems okay, no problems here, though at some point you can expect these characters to eventually duke out against each other where the commonality of the energy source may become irrelevant and simple powerscaling should more or less even out the odds. Also I agree with the "core underpinning part", that should certainly help out as supporting evidence, that point should take more precedence than the system itself serving as a power source for the characters I believe.
I share the same concerns as DDM and Axx regarding this. If the Totem serves as a universal energy source for the entire verse, then it is fine for it to fall under the normal universal energy source guidelines
Not sure if I agree with this, just because it is a storm or creation feat or somesuch doesn't mean it suddenly falls out of favor of use, especially if they can then harness said power and focus it onto their bodies. Basically proves Axx's point. Without any direct statements or confirmations from the story itself, the only other surefire way you can scale Environmental Destruction Feats to yourself is via a universal energy system. Of course, if it's greatly above the character's usual showings, just leave it as its ultimate attack if it is offensive, or as a separate ED feat assuming it isn't used in an offensive manner.
I'm fine with this, as long as you don't use it to downgrade a god-tier's feat just because the fodders have lower showings. Context matters immensely when dealing with stuff like this, a god-tier might have only one Universal feat but if the plot makes it to be an incredibly important event (Usually in the very end of a story where it surpasses everything else and there's no chance for fodder level enemies to even compare), then it's enough to suggest that the feat isn't an outlier. Otherwise, you might as well axe the universe-busting feat Goku has right now because he did it only once despite using God Ki and Super Saiyan God to amplify himself to levels that far surpass his DBZ self. And we both know that that's not gonna work in any scenario. But then again, I believe this specific Criteria is already rendered redundant with our Outlier policy page so...
Seems fine at a glance.
Yeah sure, why the hell not. MHA's Quirks are a great example. Endeavour serves to be one.
Honestly, given what I see, they should really serve as guidelines and not as absolute mandatory rules, but still highly recommended. This is how they should really work to be honest. If it fulfills one condition, everything else becomes supportive evidence in the long run.
I... kinda have to agree to this, but I'd not use the "how sharp it is" argument since we don't calculate piercing damage here nor is it a viable argument to use since it abuses surface area so much. But yes, there's no need to restrict a verse with universal energy source where people have the innate ability to use it but for some reason don't use it in their physical attacks.Even if none of these are true, it can still be a UES. Weapons enhanced by energy are often weaker than just a massive energy blast. The AP might also heavily depent on the weapon. Like how sharp it is or how well it can conduct the energy. Not to mention, I can't think of an awful lot of verses that use energy in that way to begin with (or at the very least make a big point of it). UES can also apply when a character doesn't have a way to boosts physical characteristsic. If a character has a spell that creates lightning and one that creates fire and both use the same mana, we scale it via saying there is a UES. Physicals are just an additional thing that can be scaled be a UES. The energy source may also be external and not radiate within the body. There are several verses where magic is drawn from the surroundings. This doesn't mean it isn't a UES.
One word: Chakra. It's all chakra bruv. Ask a proper Naruto expert and they'll tell you right as rain.So does that mean characters like Naruto wouldn't have a UES since he can use several sources of energy?
Again, this completely defeats the purpose of a universal energy source if made as a mandatory condition. Main point of a UES is to be able to tap into it and harness its powers for your own needs, whether defensive or offensive. This should be used for nothing more than supportive evidence.Assuming I am understand this correctly, I can agree with that. If, for example, magic is just random reality warping with no real connection to AP, it shouldn't scale.
Also agree.If there is a character that is enhanced by said power 24/7, then yeah, they should be weaker without it.
Mostly just use it as supporting evidence, don't make it an absolute requirement.I dont see the point of this one. If there is only one character in a verse that can use lets say magic, why wouldn't it be a UES? That just seems like a very arbitrary criteria.
Agree to this.Why exactly does this matter? Where the energy comes from shouldn't determine whether it's a UES. If an item grants the user mana to cast magic with, why wouldn't this be a UES? I honestly can't see a single valid reason for this.
cough Creation Feats CRT cough another Creation Feats CRT coughFully agree unless the verse is very specific about it. Characters scaling to some random clouds being created, even though they don't have any feats in the same ball park, is just crazy to me, ngl. This is even worse when physical abilities are scaled to it.
Fully agree on this as well. I already stated why I agree with this in the very beginning.
I'm fine with this, as long as you don't use it to downgrade a god-tier's feat just because the fodders have lower showings. Context matters immensely when dealing with stuff like this, a god-tier might have only one Universal feat but if the plot makes it to be an incredibly important event (Usually in the very end of a story where it surpasses everything else and there's no chance for fodder level enemies to even compare, just to show how OP the final god-tier boss is), then it's enough to suggest that the feat isn't an outlier. Otherwise, you might as well axe the universe-busting feat Goku has right now because he did it only once despite using God Ki and Super Saiyan God to amplify himself to levels that far surpass his DBZ self. And we both know that that's not gonna work in any scenario. But then again, I believe this specific Criteria is already rendered redundant with our Outlier policy page so...
I guess so.I feel like there might be exceptions to this. For example, maybe a spell continues to work after being casted, regardless of whether the character still has any mana left.
Depends on the individual character's power honestly. Case-by-case basis. If their powers show signs of UES, good, they qualify. If not, then scale their power's AP and dura separately from their physicals while still keeping both the physical AP/dura value and the superpower AP/dura value.I fail to see how this matters.
Fully agree unless the verse is very specific about it. Characters scaling to some random clouds being created, even though they don't have any feats in the same ball park, is just crazy to me, ngl. This is even worse when physical abilities are scaled to it.
I agree with KLOL and disagree with RatherClueless
As I always have and will continue to do
Yeah....yeaaaaah.I agree with KLOL and disagree with RatherClueless
As I always have and will continue to do
Yeah....yeaaaaah.
Same.
Piercing damage isn't even a thing, so why would I even use it as an argument? My point was that the effectiveness depends on the previously existing properties of the weapon, so weapon cross scaling is very iffy to begin with, which is why I dont believe it's a good criteria to use.but I'd not use the "how sharp it is" argument since we don't calculate piercing damage here nor is it a viable argument to use since it abuses surface area so much.
I know? The point was that they are all different energy sources, not different energy types. Even then though, why cant a character use several UES? Obviously they cant be cross scaled.One word: Chakra. It's all chakra bruv. Ask a proper Naruto expert and they'll tell you right as rain.
Since I have no idea how that has anything to do with my point, I'll assume I actually didnt understant the initial point correctly.Again, this completely defeats the purpose of a universal energy source. Main point is to be able to tap into it and use its powers for your own uses, whether defensive or offensive.
Yeah, I am not gonna read all this. Also, I never mentioned Creation feats, but ED feats, but whatever, might as well respond anyways.cough Creation Feats CRT cough another Creation Feats CRT cough
urgh . . . what? Assuming I am understanding this correctly, thats rly dumb. So your best feat (the creation feat) has to use less energy than your weaker feats to be valid for scaling? Am I understanding this right? Isn't that crazy counterintuitive? Wouldn't this be counterevidence if anything? If the highest energy consumption ever shown wasn't the creation feat, then why should we assume that the character in question can exert power far beyond that to match the creation? If anything this shows that the creation doesn't work like any of the other feats, even if it does use the same energy source.Also, I'll just repeat what DontTalkDT said regarding Creation Feats here which was subsequently applied to above CRTs:
"Yeah, as far as we agreed in the thread you don't need a normal city level feat to prove that a city level creation feat scales (that would be completely pointless tbh).
It's sufficient to proof that your creation spells don't use more of your power than your attack spells. Of course it's a different issue should it be a complete outlier, but that is outlier business as usual."
Well, I don't have an issue with creation feats. I have an issue with UES existing to begin with, but like you have said, that's a completely different can of worms. Also, I literally have a thread for that.By that logic we might as well nuke every single Tier 5, Tier 4, Tier 3 and Tier 2 creation feat that exists and are scaled to physical AP via Universal Energy Source, which we will absolutely not do and have done these two CRTs to finally come to a conclusion about. If you have problem with random clouds being created and then being scaled to physicals via UES, tackle it in another thread. This is absolutely not the place to do it.
Well, that wasn't really my plan, but making rules against changing standards is kinda dumb, ngl. All it does is make things stagnant, even if better solutions are found.But if you're thinking about getting rid of Universal Energy Source-based Creation Feats for Tier 5, 4, 3, 2 and above, I'd suggest you drop it, we have explicit rules against downgrading them now.
Just saying that you finding it crazy that people scale to these feats and that’s it is an Argument of Incredulity. If you don’t believe that the feat remotely scales to the characters at all you need to prove it.
I'd rather you toned it down a bit, calling people biased and all that.Lovely seeing so many people admit their bias, making their opinions literally worthless.
Or maybe we've never agreed with your scaling ideology as we all believe it is extremely flawed and is a detriment to Vs Battles Wiki as a wholeLovely seeing so many people admit their bias, making their opinions literally worthless.
Why even mention it to begin with then? That's exactly what I was telling you.Piercing damage isn't even a thing, so why would I even use it as an argument? My point was that the effectiveness depends on the previously existing properties of the weapon, so weapon cross scaling is very iffy to begin with, which is why I dont believe it's a good criteria to use.
Then maybe it's better not to speak of it? Also ED follows the same principle as Creation Feats when it comes to scaling.Yeah, I am not gonna read all this. Also, I never mentioned Creation feats, but ED feats, but whatever, might as well respond anyways.
Sorry but I'mma have to call BS on this, especially where we have god-tier bosses casually flexing universes into existence in the very end of video games to show their superiority where fodder demons have nothing against them. Arguing otherwise would be the real counterintuitive part here.urgh . . . what? Assuming I am understanding this correctly, thats rly dumb. So your best feat (the creation feat) has to use less energy than your weaker feats to be valid for scaling? Am I understanding this right? Isn't that crazy counterintuitive? Wouldn't this be counterevidence if anything? If the highest energy consumption ever shown wasn't the creation feat, then why should we assume that the character in question can exert power far beyond that to match the creation? If anything this shows that the creation doesn't work like any of the other feats, even if it does use the same energy source.
And that's where you lost all of us. UES is not gonna stop existing just because you have issues with it. Also no, you only have a thread for Cooling and Clouds.Well, I don't have an issue with creation feats. I have an issue with UES existing to begin with, but like you have said, that's a completely different can of worms. Also, I literally have a thread for that.
Well then you should have posted your so-called "better solutions" when those threads were active, why are you complaining now?Well, that wasn't really my plan, but making rules against changing standards is kinda dumb, ngl. All it does is make things stagnant, even if better solutions are found.
Prove it then, like the man said. Also, once again, tone it down. You keep this up, we're gonna have to report you.You are advocating for an Argument from Ignorance. See, I can throw around fallacies as well.That's an issue in and of itself. The burden of proof shouldn't be on me, but on the people who want the feat to scale, which is one of the reasons why I dislike UES so much, as they are a lazy excuse to work around presenting evidence, forcing your opponent to prove a negative. (Having to prove that your false claim is in fact false, which is going to be rather hard as in most cases there will be an absence of evidence for that.)
Honestly though, I dont even know why you act as if an Argument from Incredulity is something necessarily bad. If I asked you whether there were any Elephants in your backyard today (assuming you have a backyard) and you said "no, duh", how would I look if I retorted that with a "Haha, that's an argument from Incredulity, you silly boy. Did you check for footprints? I think not!".
Having common sense isn't a bad thing, tho knowing this forum, I guess some people here might actually think it is.
He literally said that he disagrees with me under any circumstance, regardless of the accuracy, for as long as you have a different oppinion. That is not biased how?I'd rather you toned it down a bit, calling people biased and all that.
Accuracy? With what, exactly? Your opinions which you claim to be based on accuracy yet you call yourself biased against?He literally said that he disagrees with me under any circumstance, regardless of the accuracy, for as long as you have a different oppinion. That is not biased how?
I have a problem with this logic.urgh . . . what? Assuming I am understanding this correctly, thats rly dumb. So your best feat (the creation feat) has to use less energy than your weaker feats to be valid for scaling? Am I understanding this right? Isn't that crazy counterintuitive? Wouldn't this be counterevidence if anything? If the highest energy consumption ever shown wasn't the creation feat, then why should we assume that the character in question can exert power far beyond that to match the creation? If anything this shows that the creation doesn't work like any of the other feats, even if it does use the same energy source.
Especially with regards to performing said attacks uber-casually.I have a problem with this logic.
How is this counterintuitive?
Also its internally inconsistent.
If the character has already shown greater consumption of power in his attacks compared to creation, then Attack>Creation.
If such a proof already exist, why would you assume otherwise??
That is not biased how?