We need more people for these Sonic upgrades

[Davy0]

"This is a character who can stay submerged in lava for millenia without any damage coming to their bodies."
Already addressed this. Even resisting the heat inside the core of the sun is Multi-City Block level at best. Thus, Dark Gaia being able to resist the heat of magma doesn't mean anything.

So, that means that Light Gaia punching him in the face repeatedly, should have also destroyed his eyeballs too, then? Because they were that much weaker than his actual body. Several face punches... weren't LPL because of Light Gaia supposedly having weak fists, I assume.

 

[Talonmask]

"This is a character who can stay submerged in lava for millenia without any damage coming to their bodies."

The core of the sun was only calculated to be 8-A. This, being the core of the earth, is undoubtably even less.

Meaning that Sonic would only need At Least 8-A to harm Dark Gaia's critical points.

" Characters in gaming have gotten upgrades despite just hitting the weak points of other characters all the time."

That doesn't excuse it for every time just because it has happened before.

 

[Davy0]

"This is a character who can stay submerged in lava for millenia without any damage coming to their bodies."
The core of the sun was only calculated to be 8-A. This, being the core of the earth, is undoubtably even less.

Meaning that Sonic would only need At Least 8-A to harm Dark Gaia's critical points.

" Characters in gaming have gotten upgrades despite just hitting the weak points of other characters all the time."

That doesn't excuse it for every time just because it has happened before.

It does for a character who has beaten several other characters who use a Planet Busting Power Source.

 

[Unclechairman]

"Second you stated that the Chaos Emeralds are inconsistent even though they are the same power sources used every time."

I never said they weren't the same power sources. In fact, that they're the series' go-to plot device is part of what makes them inconsistent, as their power always varies depending on the needs of the plot. Thus, having no set level of power, we can choose to either rate them by their highest feats (Universal) or their most commonly shown feats (Planet). Clearly, we have gone with the latter.

"Next you stated that Sonic can't be Planet Level because Emerl who was stated by a scientist who has studied Chaos Energy (even built an altar VERY SIMILAR to the altar seen in Sonic Adventure) was also inconsistent."

Gerald Robotnk is irrelevant to this. And it is massively inconsistent; Sonic beat someone who was powered by all seven Chaos Emeralds in his base form with no explanation why. By this logic, why does he need to go Super at all?


"Then you go for Sonic and the Black Knight and state that she's Country Level, even though it says "The Kingdom and this World" which was being destroyed aka "World Destruction" scene if it wasn't obvious enough, was an inconsistency of Sonic as well."

Upgrading Sonic to Country or Continent level would make it massively inconsistent, yes. "World" is a vague term that cannot be used to discern the size of a particular realm, and Dark Queen Merlina only demonstrated influence over an area of roughly Country level proportions.

 

[Talonmask]

Isn't Light Gaia the one doing the fighting for the most part? All Sonic does is attack a '''weak point'''. And even then that's briefly stun Dark Gaia so Light Gaia can gather composure. This fight shouldn't even be made comparable to Sonic and it's a bad example for the point you are trying to prove.

 

[Davy0]

"Second you stated that the Chaos Emeralds are inconsistent even though they are the same power sources used every time."
I never said they weren't the same power sources. In fact, that they're the series' go-to plot device is part of what makes them inconsistent, as their power always varies depending on the needs of the plot. Thus, having no set level of power, we can choose to either rate them by their highest feats (Universal) or their most commonly shown feats (Planet). Clearly, we have gone with the latter.

"Next you stated that Sonic can't be Planet Level because Emerl who was stated by a scientist who has studied Chaos Energy (even built an altar VERY SIMILAR to the altar seen in Sonic Adventure) was also inconsistent."

Gerald Robotnk is irrelevant to this. And it is massively inconsistent; Sonic beat someone who was powered by all seven Chaos Emeralds in his base form with no explanation why. By this logic, why does he need to go Super at all?


"Then you go for Sonic and the Black Knight and state that she's Country Level, even though it says "The Kingdom and this World" which was being destroyed aka "World Destruction" scene if it wasn't obvious enough, was an inconsistency of Sonic as well."

Upgrading Sonic to Country or Continent level would make it massively inconsistent, yes. "World" is a vague term that cannot be used to discern the size of a particular realm, and Dark Queen Merlina only demonstrated influence over an area of roughly Country level proportions.

Actually, if you really want to say Universal. You forget that the Chaos Emeralds turn thoughts into power, and create miracles. The Super Transformations are inducements of those miracles, they could also give the user strength enough to defeat whatever they need to at a certain point in time, which may have also been the reason that they could exist in three periods of time, and fight Mephiles.

So what you're saying is, scientists... like Vega Punk, Dr. Briefs, characters who study the mechanics of their own universe and are highly qualified, are not good vouchers for power. Please say yes. I'll make sure that everyone knows that your little "smart guy" BS isn't worth a damn.

Nah, it's not vague, she stated "The World and this Kingdom" they knew exactly what the hell they were talking about. We could make that Universal if we wanted, and her powers were wreaking havoc on the book itself due to her giving it immortality and stopping the stories from flowing. But I know you don't want anymore (cough) inconsistencies. See I do a hell of a lot more studying of this verse than you or Darkness. When characters aren't supposed to be upgraded, I make sure not to upgrade them, when they need to, I give specific points as to why they are. I don't slouch, so you'd better get a bit more specific then this "inconsistency" BS, or I'm gonna make sure that every single inconsistent game feat in Kirby and Mario is noted, just as much as you've noted about Sonic's verse. Only fair, right?

I'm done with what you're saying Talon, being capable of stunning a more powerful character, and the feats he has shown in past games, tells the story. So I just won't answer you anymore.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

I think Light Gaia is involved, but from i recall, he isn't really doing the heavy lifting past a certain point, without Sonic, actually, Light Gaia would have lost, and Sonic is able to solo it. However due to PIS, Dark Gaia couldn't be defeated without "friendship, and being good" and that cheesey stuff that happened when Chip went away.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Also, that was the Gaia Collossus, not Light Gaia itself.

 

[Talonmask]

You've seen it here, folks. Davy doesn't understand the concept of weak points.

As customary for your entertaining fiasco, I shall now initiate a golf clap.

 

[Unclechairman]

Super Sonic solos Perfect Dark Gaia in the Wii version. He's assisted by Light Gaia and the Gaia Colossus in the 360/PS3 versions. Which one takes precedence, I'm not sure.

 

[Talonmask]

I think Light Gaia is involved, but from i recall, he isn't really doing the heavy lifting past a certain point, without Sonic, actually, Light Gaia would have lost, and Sonic is able to solo it. However due to PIS, Dark Gaia couldn't be defeated without "friendship, and being good" and that cheesey stuff that happened when Chip went away.

Sonic was only assisting in the fight with Dark Gaia until Dark Gaia became Perfect, Gaia Colossus only needed Sonic's assistance when they were holding each other back.

 

[Davy0]

They weren't holding each other back though. Dark Gaia LUNGED at Light Gaia and grasped for him. You want that Golf clap to be initiated after or before you learn how to understand the cues of human body language. Shall I give you a video of what people do when they don't wish to be grabbed closely by other people.

 

[Darkness552]

"I do a hell of a lot more studying of this verse than you and Darkness"

Chill

Anyway everybody needs to calm down in this thread

 

[Unclechairman]

"Nah, it's not vague, she stated "The World and this Kingdom" they knew exactly what the hell they were talking about. We could make that Universal if we wanted, and her powers were wreaking havoc on the book itself due to her giving it immortality and stopping the stories from flowing."

How many times do I have to spell it out for you that "World" is not an indicator of size? It is vague; I even gave you every dictionary.com definition in the last thread and only one of them refers to the actual planet. It's very likely that "World" could mean any of those other definitions, so it can't be used as an indicator of size.

"So what you're saying is, scientists... like Vega Punk, Dr. Briefs, characters who study the mechanics of their own universe and are highly qualified, are not good vouchers for power. Please say yes. I'll make sure that everyone knows that your little "smart guy" BS isn't worth a damn."

This is not what I'm saying. Gerald Robotnik chronicled Emerl's power, and in no way am I saying Ultimate Emerl is not Planet level. I'm saying base Sonic can't be scaled to him because him defeating Ultimate Emerl is nothing but a case of massive Plot-Induced inconsistency.

 

[Talonmask]

The golf clap is for the fact that you cannot grasp the concept of weak points, not the fighting between the Colossus and Dark Gaia. It doesn't require as much effort to harm a more powerful character when you are hitting them in a specifically weaker area, regardless of "feats" said character demonstrated previously, he did not need Planet level power to harm him in that area.

Do you need a jackhammer to get that concept into that thick skull you got there?

 

[Davy0]

I'm not calming down anymore. This is the crap I was trying to avoid in the first place. The person you "trust" doesn't even know what the hell he's talking about and won't even use Professor Robotnik who studied Chaos Energy for a living. This is the crap I put up with.

 

[Davy0]

The golf clap is for the fact that you cannot grasp the concept of weak points, not the fighting between the Colossus and Dark Gaia. It doesn't require as much effort to harm a more powerful character when you are hitting them in a specifically weaker area, regardless of "feats" said character demonstrated previously, He did not need Planet level power to hurt him in that area.
Do you need a jackhammer to get that in concept into that thick skull you got there?

Someone who can't read body language probably doesn't know how to use a jackhammer, I think I'm good.

Also, no one told me how a punch to the face with a LPL fist works against eyes that can't take a Multi-Block Hedgehog, yet.

 

[Davy0]

"Nah, it's not vague, she stated "The World and this Kingdom" they knew exactly what the hell they were talking about. We could make that Universal if we wanted, and her powers were wreaking havoc on the book itself due to her giving it immortality and stopping the stories from flowing."
How many times do I have to spell it out for you that "World" is not an indicator of size? It is vague; I even gave you every dictionary.com definition in the last thread and only one of them refers to the actual planet. It's very likely that "World" could mean any of those other definitions, so it can't be used as an indicator of size.

"So what you're saying is, scientists... like Vega Punk, Dr. Briefs, characters who study the mechanics of their own universe and are highly qualified, are not good vouchers for power. Please say yes. I'll make sure that everyone knows that your little "smart guy" BS isn't worth a damn."

This is not what I'm saying. Gerald Robotnik chronicled Emerl's power, and in no way am I saying Ultimate Emerl is not Planet level. I'm saying base Sonic can't be scaled to him because him defeating Ultimate Emerl is nothing but a case of massive Plot-Induced inconsistency.

It doesn't matter. Through the Arabian Nights Storybook we learn that their are entire universes in these books. That's all I need, you however need more to call it an inconsistency.

It's only an inconsistency when he can't replicate the feat, he replicates it plenty of times for it to be Continent Level at least.

 

[Talonmask]

"Sonic, hit Dark Gaia's weak spot quick while I hold him back."

 

[Talonmask]

Fist to the face, getting jabbed in the eyes . . . two very different points of impact, my friend.

One is directly striking the eye, whereas the other is simply landing a blow on the head.

 

[Davy0]

Yes, holding him back from being blown away by this . Cause you know how he loves being hit by a large energy wave to the face.

 

[Davy0]

Fist to the face, getting jabbed in the eyes . . . two very different points of impact, my friend.

It doesn't matter, his eyes should have been destroyed should the sheer force of an LPL punch smashed his Multi Block Eyes, they shouldn't have been capable of taking the force of his strikes and been broken in some way.

 

[Unclechairman]

"Through the Arabian Nights Storybook we learn that their are entire universes in these books. That's all I need, you however need more to call it an inconsistency."

World of Arabian Nights =/= World of Camelot.

That's all I need to disprove your point.

 

[Davy0]

Nah, because it's part of the same series. There is a universe in the books, that's all I need to disprove your points. It just focused on a specific place within the book. Camelot has an ocean for one thing. Your point is invalid.

 

[Talonmask]

Fist to the face, getting jabbed in the eyes . . . two very different points of impact, my friend.

It doesn't matter, his eyes should have been destroyed should the sheer force of an LPL punch smashed his Multi Block Eyes, they shouldn't have been capable of taking the force of his strikes and been broken in some way.

His face absorbed the impact, punch yourself in the face, what's feeling the near-entirety of the impact? Definitely not your eyes.

 

[Davy0]

Huh... I've been a boxer in real life. Punches can affect both your face and your eyes as long as they are driven with enough force, as punches can also affect the retinas. Now imagine being hit in the eye with a large brick thrown at you at 50 MPH, and you'd understand why what you're saying is crap.

 

[Talonmask]

Huh... I've been a boxer in real life. Punches can affect both your face and your eyes as long as they are driven with enough force, as punches can also affect the retinas. Now imagine being hit in the eye with a large brick thrown at you at 50 MPH, and you'd understand why what you're saying is crap.

"Being hit in the eye."


I'm sorry, aren't you trying to disprove my point?

 

[Unclechairman]

Nah, because it's part of the same series. There is a universe in the books, that's all I need to disprove your points. It just focused on a specific place within the book. Camelot has an ocean for one thing. Your point is invalid.

Doesn't mean the the worlds in the books are the same size.

Also, did you just argue that the presence of an ocean proves Universe size? At best, it's an indicator of Planet size, and even then, in this case it's not definitive. There is literally no evidence for Camelot being any bigger than the Country-sized area that we see other than "well, the land on the map goes outside the boundaries", which can't be used to ascertain anything.

 

[Davy0]

Shouldn't the face "absorb" the bricks exerted force as it's quite large (imagine it as what it usually looks like), yet you still take great damage to your retinas regardless of that. So while the face is hit by the brick, it has enough size to affect the whole of the left or right eye. The retina would still take the force generated from the impact. This is the same situation.

 

[Undylan]

I think this topic is getting out of hand.

And Davy, Stop typing in all caps like that. It makes you less mature for what you trying to say here.

 

[Davy0]

I don't care about what's fanciful and mature. He's wrong, and that's all that matters to me. If you want to be fanciful and mature, go ahead.

 

[Talonmask]

I'm pretty sure if you are hit by a brick at 50 MPH, your last worry is your eyes, more for your whole face.

It honestly depends on the point of impact, direct impact to the eyes would surely lead to blindness. (Not disproving what I said.) Anywhere else would likely only provide a concussion. Then again, using your brick, you are lucky enough if your neck doesn't break.

 

[Davy0]

Oh yeah, taking several impacts to the face, eyes and all with Multi-block eyeballs is very healthy, you'd think that them being so weak, Dark Gaia would learn to cover them in some way. And yet... Constantly being smacked with extremely large fists, in the eye, with rather large hands, over and over... it's obviously not a thing because somehow he avoids having broken retinas and eyeballs aren't crushed...

 

[Talonmask]

He was never punched in the eye by the Colossus, stop saying he was.

Most of those blows were either in the jaw or around the chest region.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Which version of the fight are we going by? The Wii version or the canon version from the Xbox 360 port? If so, I don't recall Dark Gaia getting hit by the Collossus in the fight in the eye. I know Super Sonic did... several times. Same for regular Sonic IIRC.

 

[Davy0]

It doesn't matter. The force of his strike should have been too much for such a weak piece of "flesh". It shouldn't even be questioned, that punch shouldn't have mitigated so much damage from the eye and should have cracked an eyeball even if it weren't a direct hit as theirs own so much shock the skin can absorb before it starts affecting other places just because of the fact that the face is constantly being smashed. Oh and btw, if you've played the game, you do realize that this is a creature who can change from a solid to a gas correct, as shown when it spread its darkness all over the world. So how are we to account that its body is made up of the same biological make-up as animals of "flesh" and "bone" in the first place. You do realize it's a concept, correct?

 

[Davy0]

Ya know what. I don't even care anymore. Yay or Nay. That's all I need to hear so I can rack these up. '''Yay''' or '''Nay'''.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

So are you bumping up Dark Gaia's durability with that statement, or underhanding one of the protagonists hit force? I feel a little lost with this statement.

" The force of his strike should have been too much for such a weak piece of "flesh". It shouldn't even be questioned, that punch in the eye should have cracked an eyeball."

I feel like there's two ways of interpreting that, and I'd like it to be clear.

Also, yes, Dark Gaia can do that. I feel we should account that concept but it would seem odd, yes? If it is like that, why didn't it break Dark Gaia? If we don't, how can we calculate that? Assume something like Dark Gaia is special or powerful in a different way?

 

[Davy0]

So are you bumping up Dark Gaia's durability with that statement, or underhanding one of the protagonists hit force? I feel a little lost with this statement.
" The force of his strike should have been too much for such a weak piece of "flesh". It shouldn't even be questioned, that punch in the eye should have cracked an eyeball."

I feel like there's two ways of interpreting that, and I'd like it to be clear.

Also, yes, Dark Gaia can do that. I feel we should account that concept but it would seem odd, yes? If it is like that, why didn't it break Dark Gaia? If we don't, how can we calculate that? Assume something like Dark Gaia is special or powerful in a different way?

I'm not answering anymore questions. Why do I have all that info at the front desk if you guys just constantly ask questions. Yay or Nay, Soy.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Hmm. I haven't seen that specific answer anywhere in there. I mean the one regarding how we account what Dark Gaia is, physically. Other than that, I'll cast my vote and leave it to you. I don't think we can have any potential outliers here.

I mostly say Yay in favor of Sonic, count the whole thing as a Yay, then. I think that all is reason enough to put him in base form on Country level at least.