We need more people for these Sonic upgrades

[Davy0]

Country Level is fine with me. He gets an increase, I said that in the last thread as well, he still deserves an increase either way. Thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

Davy, you keep behaving badly despite warning upon warning upon warning from me. Regardless whether you are right or not, you are not convincing people who disagree with you this way. This is your final warning. The next time you yell, curse, or insult, you will receive a block. I do not like to do this, because you have been very useful for input at times, and also been nice to me personally, but other users keep asking why we let you get away with behaviour that would have got them banned, and quite frankly they have a good point.

Anyway, if I understand this correctly, the issue is that regular Sonic has defeated planet level enemies, but if we gave him such a rating it would look strange and inconsistent to visitors, given that this would make him more powerful than his more powerful super form, ending up with a logical loop?

 

[Davy0]

I'm not gonna stop doing that, I keep telling you. It's not because I don't respect you. I do it because it's what I do. And I'll say it again. If I gotta get blocked or banned forever, I know that at least I was right while it happened, so I'll deal with it. So you're definitely going to hear it again, I'm not gonna hold back when someone is wrong yet they need to draw straws thinking they are right. Just not me, so you might as well block me or ban me now, I'm not lying to you, I'm being the genuine me. I don't take special treatment, I just do what I feel like.

His Super Form has beaten Universe and Multiversal Characters (with help). So not really. Those two defeats are just considered outliers, so it's not really a vote of inconsistency, it's just people choosing to accept what they like and what they don't like they don't accept, even if it has a logical explanation to it such as the Chaos Emeralds inducing miracles and transforming thoughts into power.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, everybody else, including me, generally have to keep their behaviour in check around here, as that is the only way to keep this place from collapsing into chaos, given the volatile subject matters/everybody being biased about their favourite franchises. So yes, you keep demanding special treatment, and have to stop immediately. If everybody else can do it, so can you. You just chose to ignore it.

 

[Davy0]

When do I ever demand special treatment. I say you can ban me anytime you want and don't care if it happens. When was that ever special treatment. Me doing what I feel like is what I do. It has nothing to do with how you or anyone else feels about it. If you choose to ban me, that's your choice. Nobodies stopping you, it's your site and your rules, I just choose not to follow them the way you see them. Just my nature to do so. When you can find a time when I asked for special treatment though, I'd be very humbled to see that. I've always said the very same thing this post and the post I made before it as I'm saying now. Be nice to people that are trying to make a fool out of you when they are acting like fools? Sorry, no can do.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, then I am afraid that you give me no choice. I have to block you for the sake of fairness towards other users. It is too bad, because I liked having you around. I hope that you will behave better when you get back.

Still, I think that we should try to fairly evaluate the points that you have brought up here.

 

[Davy0]

That's fine. Ban me if you must. Thanks for the laughs.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Let me help with this since it got out of hand.

Lets go 1 topic at a time here.

Edit: Since you got blocked just now i'll try to find out i guess.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Base sonic statistics

From my understanding here and Davy"s arguments.

His feats were managing to wound Gaia a planet buster in base granted it was his eyes which should be a weak spot as noted by Unclechairman.

However he has another solid feat to scale from.

Beating this character who is able to life whipe entire planets.

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Ifrit

Which by us translates to 6-A or high 6-A from my understanding like Lord Boros here.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

As for Hyper Sonic :

He should 4-B for possessing power that eclipses this:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Death_Egg_(Sonic_Battle)

^This machine is powered by this -http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Chaos_Emerald

While Sonic uses this to go in his Hyper form -http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Emerald

Super Chaos emeralds are just Chaos emeralds enhanced by the master emerald a power that is vastly superior to them -http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Master_Emerald

I"ll look into the rest another time.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

So....Anyone have anything to say about this?Because this will likely be brought up back eventually.

 

[Darkness552]

right now i think we are going to let this go for now

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

That would make all of this pointless tho we should probably just evaluate this given that it was argued for months now.And then move on.

 

[Darkness552]

we could do that but you would still need to convince Uncle of the upgrades

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Ok then fair enough.

As I stated above base sonic should be 6-A for his feats.

The Ifrit not having a set timeframe for being able to life whipe planets doesn't seem logical to me.Unless it's stated to be done over time I don't see why this is argued about given that I'm pretty sure 90% of characters with off panel feats don't have set timeframes to scale from either.Not that I'm implying it's wrong or anything just that unless it's implied to be done that way then it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Darkness552]

i believe Ifrit would be 6-A as well but there was a powerscaling issue that happened

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

i believe Ifrit would be 6-A as well but there was a powerscaling issue that happened

Hmm I see I didn't know that.

 

[Unclechairman]

Base sonic statistics
From my understanding here and Davy"s arguments.

His feats were managing to wound Gaia a planet buster in base granted it was his eyes which should be a weak spot as noted by Unclechairman.

However he has another solid feat to scale from.

Beating this character who is able to life whipe entire planets.

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Ifrit

Which by us translates to 6-A or high 6-A from my understanding like Lord Boros here.

I've addressed this before (like I have with all of Davy's points). Lifewiping as a feat by itself to rate by was abandoned long ago because it's virtually unquantifiable and can't be used to judge actual destructive power. Give a City level character, or hell, a Town level character enough time and he will eventually waste the planet. The difference between the Ifrit and Boros is that Boros was explicitly portrayed as being able to do it in one shot.

 

[Unclechairman]

As for Hyper Sonic :
He should 4-B for possessing power that eclipses this:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Death_Egg_(Sonic_Battle)

^This machine is powered by this -http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Chaos_Emerald

While Sonic uses this to go in his Hyper form -http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Emerald

Super Chaos emeralds are just Chaos emeralds enhanced by the master emerald a power that is vastly superior to them -http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Master_Emerald

I"ll look into the rest another time.

For one, the Death Egg wasn't powered by the Chaos Emeralds, which makes scaling it to anyone an extremely tenous case. While Davy brought up a point that Eggman shouldn't be concerned with the Chaos Emeralds if he can build weapons that dwarf them in power, the truth is that after Sonic Adventure 2, Eggman hasn't showed much interest in the Chaos Emeralds, instead opting to harness other extremely powerful forces such as Dark Gaia, the Jeweled Scepter and the Power of the Stars, and the Time Eater, which is just another dent in the theory that the Chaos Emeralds should be more powerful than the Final Egg Blaster. To my knowledge, Sonic Rush is the only post-SA2 game in which he showed anything more than a passing interest in the Emeralds.

There's also the fact that the Emeralds' actual feats (counting scaling from opponents the Super forms have beaten) flip between Planetary and Universal with no middle ground to speak of.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

I've addressed this before (like I have with all of Davy's points). Lifewiping as a feat by itself to rate by was abandoned long ago because it's virtually unquantifiable and can't be used to judge actual destructive power. Give a City level character, or hell, a Town level character enough time and he will eventually waste the planet. The difference between the Ifrit and Boros is that Boros was explicitly portrayed as being able to do it in one shot.

Forget the hyper sonic thing then if that's the case . As for the Ifrit thing we'll I'm not sure about that .If he had the ability to do so overtime then wouldn't that mentioned ? I believe it wouldn't be said the way it was if that was the case honestly.

 

[Unclechairman]

There's far too many unknowns regarding the Ifrit for it to be a reliable judge of the base forms' power. While Shadow did say that he lifewiped in a "short time", it still gives us a vague idea of a timeframe at best, which should not be used for judging concrete statistics like this.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

I'd suggest a possible rating then I'm sure that it would fit this description accurately.I mean that's why we have them in the first place.

 

[Unclechairman]

I wouldn't do that either, as it would cause people to get the wrong idea. There's also the fact that even small differences in the timeframe the Ifrit lifewiped in would greatly affect the DC rating from it, which is why we need a concrete timeframe and not a vague "short time" statement.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Well then never mind then if that's the case.

 

[Unclechairman]

So, I believe our current standing is: upgrade Super Sonic and the rest of the Super forms to Large Planet level since the only reason they aren't is because of our dated Attack Potency chart (and the feat they are being scaled from was done by a weakened Dark Gaia anyway), and add a "possibly MFTL" since the base forms are already FTL and the Super forms can fight with beings that completely eclipse the base forms.

 

[Darkness552]

yea im fine with this

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if both of you are in agreement, I think that you should feel free to do so.

 

[Unclechairman]

So we are free to edit the pages now?

 

[Antvasima]

In this case, I think so, yes.

 

[Unclechairman]

Okay, then. Should I wait for Darkness to edit the locked pages, or can you unlock them so I can edit them?

 

[Antvasima]

You can wait for Darkness. I am tired right now.

 

[Antvasima]

Or which pages do you need unlocked?

 

[Unclechairman]

Sonic's page.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Tell me when you are done please.

 

[Unclechairman]

Done.

 

[Antvasima]

All right. I have locked it.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Should we lock this thread and make a new one but copy/paste info and relevant arguements to another thread?

Now that Davy is gone and we have settled pretty much everything, is there any reason to keeping this open?

 

[Unclechairman]

I can lock the thread. I don't know what you mean by "relevant arguments" though, as I think I've properly addressed everything here. If there's still anything you want addressed, you can create a new thread; just don't adopt the attitude that Davy did, please. Arguing with him was very tiring as you can see in most of the threads posted above as well as this one.