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Wait... an Undertale upgrade?? Is that even possible?

Before I begin, I will be referring to Frisk as "she" where applicable, for simplicity's sake. Also, when mentioning items I will link the wiki page to the item instead of a screenshot to confirm they are not from a fangame, nor an AU… also because I couldn't find a screenshot for all of them.


All Undertale characters besides Frisk and Chara should have Irregular Physiology due to being completely made of magic instead of flesh and blood, as the game suggests.

• Undyne

She should have Weapon Mastery as she is both an expert with her signature spears and with other weapons, to the point where she uses them as silverware like you would forks or knives

She should also have Limited Telekinesis for her spears similarly to how MCU Thor does with Mjolnir/Stormbreaker.

Rage Power,the angrier she gets the faster her attacks are

Minor Power Nullification,can passively keep someone from selling something

• Toriel

Can erase energy constructs such as Flowey's

Heat Manipulation, her fire magic can replace the power and functions of an ove

Alphys upgraded Toriel's phone just like she did with Frisk's, meaning she now gets all the hax that Frisk does with the upgraded phone

She also needs a better Intelligence description based on these feats:

Has read every book in her house many times, including history books, plant encyclopedias, etc.

So smart that she prepared an entire school curriculum in the time it takes a child to have a short nap

Has been alive for the same amount of time as Asgore,who has been alive and fighting for thousands of years, maybe even before written history even bega, meanwhile written history itself began over 5000 years ago

I would also like to point out that Toriel doesn't hold back against just anyone, only Frisk because they were a child.

• Asgore

Better description for AP and Durability: While I'm not looking for a tier change at this moment, including these in the explanations would make the profile look better.

- Undyne explains that even her killing Frisk would be mercy compared to what Asgore could do

- Is among the small group of people that foughtagainst Undertale humans and survived

- Flowey states that he would never have been able to defeat Asgore, in a situation where he didn't have LOVE

-It should also be mentioned that Frisk had better items as well as stronger Determination during their fight.

Otherwise:

Heat Manipulation, fire magic can passively light things on fire and keep them on fire for hours

Resistance to Heat Manipulation, Asgore and all the old monsters were capable of navigating Hotland until they reached the other side, before Hotland even had elevators.

Resistance to Ice Manipulation, Asgore is Santa Claus, meaning he has inevitably survived the cold of Snowdin due to being well known there, Snowdin is so cold that even Undyne herself finds it significantly cold, and it's snow is so cold it can withstand the middle of Hotland


• Papyrus

On this CRT, it was agreed that Papyrus's Intelligence should be changed to make him sound less, well, stupid, but it was never implemented to the page, same with Resistance to Ice Manipulation.


• Alphys

Athletic Human Lifting Strength, strong enough to carry both Papyrus and Undyne on her head at the same time

Limited Magnetism Manipulation, can immobilize people using EM fields, even if they are swifter than people on Frisk's level

Healing via Instant Noodles

Alphys needs MUCH better Intelligence description, based on these feats and the ones already present:

The person who previously held Alphys's position invented the CORE, which turns thermal heat into magical electricity and serves as a power plant for the entire Underground, and she reportedly works faster than he did

Figures out a highly complicated math problem in 2 seconds flat, correctly guesses the number of flies in a jar with a glance, and perfectly guesses the number of n's in Mettaton's name in a situation where the number of n's was rapidly growing, all in a row

Was able to operate and help Frisk under Mettaton's nose even when he was standing right next to her


• Frisk

Frisk's moves such as Draw, Flex, and Clear Mind need to be added to their Notable Attacks/Techniques and not just chill out in her hax.

Durability Negation, the game explains that Frisk could have used SAVE and LOAD to "SAVE over" Asriel's existence thus defeating him, despite Asriel being unaffected by paradoxes. It is undisclosed whether this would kill Asriel or simply incapacitate him.

For the love of God, would someone please fix the typo in, "Flight (With they jet-pack)".

Frisk can also regenerate health by SAVEing.

Invulnerability, As all STATs are canon, INV also exists.The Cloudy Glasses and the Torn Notebook amplify this ability, they don't give it in the first place.

Immortality (Type 1) as a SOUL, when UT humans are killed they leave behind their SOUL, which stays alive for millennia at least (as Asgore had all 6 SOULs he'd collected over the past few thousand years); SOULs retain their mind and sapience, such as whethey responded to Frisk's calls for help

Empathic Manipulation:

Can affect people emotionally with her words even if they have no idea what she said

Frisk has the ability to ACT, which can calm dow even the most violent enemies, and it is stated every enemy has a different way to be calmed dow

The Faded Ribbon makes her look cute enough to the point where even Bloodlusted opponents will hit her less hard

Dream Manipulation; Can use and hold dreams like solid objects and even sell them to vendors, can make dreams come true

Resistance to Absorption for the same reason she has Resistance to Soul Manipulation, Photoshop Flowey released a blast of light that absorbed all of the souls in the entire Underground, and Frisk was the only person who was unaffected by it, despite being in the epicenter of the attack

Resistance to Possession: In the event that Frisk were to kill enough people, Chara will possess Frisk, but Frisk will always break free unless her intentions exactly match that of Chara's.

Immune to Power Mimicry, SOUL power (including Determination) cannot be created artificially

Telepathy, seems to have the ability to read minds

Clairvoyance (via this), can tell people's weaknesses by looking at them

Other evidence of Enhanced Senses includes sensing a door opening all the way from Snowdi and sensing a phone signal getting deflected (and could tell you exactly who did it), although this may be another example of Clairvoyance

Power Nullification, outside of healing her completely 3.25 times over(if no LOVE gained), the Hush Puppy nullifies all dog magic whatsoever, or will stop a dog from casting magic at all

Should at least scale to Pre-Flowey Asriel, stamina-wise, who walked from where Chara fell all the way to New Home on the opposite side of the Underground, which is 32,977 square meters (20.5 miles) long

Whoever writes the Intelligence sections for the Undertale profiles either, no offense, sucks at it, or didn't know these following feats existed.

Bested Asgore in a fight, who has been alive for at least 5,000 years(see Toriel), not to mention had been training specifically to fight humans for millennia, fought in the front lines in a war against humans and was one of the only survivors, and had killed 6 humans in the past

Was capable of dodging all of Mad Mew Mew's attacks absolutely flawlessly

Even when she lost her SAVE and LOAD, she's been shown to handle danmaku insanely well

Can recognize complex 3D shapes with a glance, even ones that Charawas unable to do the same with

Perfectly understands and uses a language spoken only by wiggling and has an entire conversation in that way, despite first seeing it only moments before (doubles as a Multilingualism feat)

Frisk was able to navigate the CORE even though Mettaton deliberately changed its layout to counter Frisk's deduction so that she would get lost and perish


• Vulki

Smoke Manipulation (via this)

Magma Manipulation, and Resistance to such (via this)

Durability Negation, can lower someone's natural Durability by touching them


• Muffet

Social Influencing, without even talking she can get people to buy overpriced wares

Power Nullification, Muffet's Purple Mode (webs) automatically sets the opponent's speed down to a certain amount, and their speed cannot be increased in this state, even with Sea Tea (See Trivia)

Thread Manipulation, as Queen of the Spiders she should have the ability to create webs just like her minions, uses the Purple Mode which utilizes threads, and likely contributed to the creation of her nest. (How did we not have this one before?)

Her webs are so strong that the same person that could cause over 21 thousand damage to Muffet(enough to oneshot her 17.4 times over) could not break out of the webs

Muffet's spider webs can also block any type of signal

More accurate stamina rating via these feats:

Feels almost nothing from being injured, in fact it seems to please her

Has the stamina to fight against Frisk for 17 turns in a row, and would have been enthusiastic to going even longer if she hadn't received a telegram

The Intelligence description on Muffet is actually good, but it lacks her fighting skills.

Muffet reveals that Mettaton went out of his way to hire her , and for a great amount of money, meaning he knew Muffet would have the best shot at fighting Frisk other than himself


• Tsunderplane

Much like Vulkin and Sans, Resistance to Heat Manipulation should apply to her too.


• Annoying Dog (Jesus Christ, what did these downgrades do to him)

My biggest concern is that he is listed as a higher dimensional character than Asriel and Frisk, and in fact views them both as mere fiction, yet is treated as a similar-tiered character to such people.

Moving on:

Regardless of his tier, WoG states that the Annoying Dog got ten times more powerful as of 2018

Power Bestowal, gave Frisk infinite health as part of the test to see if she was fit to enter his room

Transmutation, turns himself into a living bomb and his tail into a fuse

Acausality (Type 1), when Frisk passes his test, the door to his room opens. Frisk may then LOAD her SAVE and go to his house in Snowdin, where the door is still open. Frisk would have LOADed to before the test itself started and thus before the door was ever opened, but the door was still open. (The game makes no mention of the door having to be re-opened, which Frisk would have also sensed.)

Sealing, sealed the Donation Box so Frisk couldn't put any more GOLD into it, sealed a room so Frisk couldn't enter it (and, quite possibly, so Mad Mew Mew couldn't leave)

Duplication (via this)

Plot Manipulation, can create new modes and different possible outcomes in Undertale such as Hard Mode

Life Manipulation, created both humans and monsters inside his game, casually created a miniature sun that gives life

Law Manipulation, can make up new laws for his different modes, such as making it physically impossible to take more than 3 pieces of candy from a bowl

Age Manipulation, aged everything in the Dog Shrine massively, so much so that he fossilized a boom box

Willpower Manipulation, made something lose the will to fight

Mind Manipulation, can play music that can psychologically affect people and their desires

Spatial Manipulation, made a pocket room under Papyrus's sink merely to troll Frisk

Conceptual Manipulation, created Chara, who embodies the concept of STATs, as part of his reality

•Chara:

Fear Manipulation, made Doggo feel a chill all over his body even though he didn't know who he was fighting or where she was
 
Haven't looked through everything but I have seen some problems already

Undyne attacking faster when challenged could imply just becoming more serious, rage power I believe would mean having actual statistics amplification triggered by rage

Frisk was asked not to lose the letter so you don't get the option to sell it, it seems as simple as that, I don't think Undyne passively using a superpower to cancel Frisk's bodily functions is a reasonable assumption

The microwave thing just seems to be caused by Fire Manipulation

Rereading one's own collection of books isn't a notable intelligence feat without a timeframe

I don't think she started working on the curriculum strictly when Frisk went to bed, considering it was her dream to be a teacher she probably would have got most of it down well before Frisk met her

Alphys planned Mettaton's attack with him, her being able to help Frisk under Mettaton's nose is a complete misrepresentation of what the situation was and her answering those questions aren't as impressive either with that added context

The general concept of a soul is that the physical body will die but an immaterial part of the person will continue on for eternity. Undertale souls behave no differently in this regard than the majority of souls in fiction and shouldn't grant any special abilities

What you're describing is Social Influencing not Empathic Manipulation

Power mimicry is also a no. Someone being unable to scientifically replicate one's power does not imply if that someone went up to a user of power mimicry the latter's ability would fail
 
Telepathy for Frisk is also a no go, because you might as well give telepathy to every protagonist of a game which goes "X seems to be thinking this thing" at some point, which would be silly.
 
Toby's tweet doesn't seem like reliable WoG at all, regarding the 10x power boost. It's quite clearly meant to be a joke. Besides that, 10x boosts are irrelevant at 2-B levels.
 
Except Undyne would have no reason to not already be fighting at full power.

Having the word NO!!! instead of the price and playing a sound every time the person tries would imply exactly that.

Toriel's heat would affect both the stove and the inside of the oven. The inside of ovens don't involve fire.

It's not just the fact that she's read them, it's also the quantity of books she has and the amount of time she has read them.

The way Toriel said it implied she did it for Frisk specifically.

Even if Alphys helping Mettaton was true, he wasn't counting on Alphys to secretly tell Frisk what all the answers were.

Except, unlike those in other fiction, SOULs stay on the physical plane and fully retain their sapience on such.

Causing Bloodlusted opponents to pull their punches and having an ability that lets you calm down any possible opponent isn't Empathetic Manipulation?

This actually makes sense. Wouldn't it be immunity to some types of Power Mimicry then?

Except in Frisk's case it wasn't treated as a guess.
 
For the asgore thing however. I do agree that he already has superior ap due to the scaling chain he follows (like, 2.4 times minimally determined frisks durability when lowballed). However he isnt massively superior to undyne. Undyne is capable of overpowering toriel in an ending. Though toriel was unlikely fighting full force the wording of the scene still treat it as a good strength feat. Just noticeably superior.
 
  • Undyne
-I agree with weapon mastery. Though the weopans may just be there for display. However she should still at least have mastery over her main abilities of spears and arrows

-As long as this only applies to spears (and doesnt fall under another ability) then i agree

-Andy may be right. Undyne starts off the fight normally and the attacks only get faster as you tell her the attacks are too easy

-This is just the game not allowing you to do so. Plus there are other things undyne could do like chaining it to you, or telling tem not to buy it etc. There is not enough to suggest this being power null.

  • Toriel
-She just stopped the attack. Just because they disappeared doesnt imply they literally got erased if that is what you are going for. Especially considering how inconsistent this ability would be.

-The scene in question was referring to her fire replacing the functions of the stovetop and using fire magic. Though you cant exactly use a stove to heat up a pie, fire magic could do the same. And she could easily just leave the fire levitating above the pie.

-I dont think frisk has any good hax with the upgraded phone unless im missing something

-The books she read repeatedly only applied to that one shelf. Though it may imply she would have read the others to. So I support "has likely read every book in her house including history books, plant encyclopedias etc" as an add on

-I suppose this seems like a reasonable add on as well.

-No evidence they were alive before written history. History in undertale is completely different to real life and doesnt scale

-I suppose under certain circumstances she wouldnt hold back. She isnt exactly one to go straight to bloodlust as seen by her intimidating froggit and being disgusted with asgores actions. But i dont see any reason to hold back in any situation. So i agree with adjusting the weakness a little.

  • Asgore
-Covered the ap thing

-Same as toriel

-Ill get onto the hotland at the end

-Being extremely cold doesnt allow you to withstand a heated enviroment. Its either fake or a simple gag. Simply walking around in a snowey place is not enough to grant that resistance

  • Papyrus
-Now. If papyrus is explicitely stated to resist cold temperatures due to being skinless, then i actually do agree with giving him resistance (not immunity). That may also scale to sans as well.

-Papyrus just weakens you through normal attacks and captures you. Power null is a no go.

-Playing with dolls is not a intelligence feat. Nothing about that first one is trivial. He only trained alphys physically, not an intelligence feat. The book is mainly puzzle based, which is not really new since papyrus is already a geek about puzzles.

-Not sure how combat applicable his willpower is. If it is applicable at all then i suppose it is fine as a limited thing. Though it really just describes his character rather than his abilities more than anything.

-Levitation is already on his profile

-I do agree with limited power sensing. I dont agree with full on since he doesnt really use this ability anywhere else even when he legitimately can.

  • Alphys
-I dont see how the display on the loading screen in any way scales to their true stats

-I agree

-She carries these around right? If so i agree

-I agree with the first intelligence part to a degree

-It is possible they pre planned. So i dont buy it confidently

-Same as what andy said

  • Vulkin
-This is limited smoke manipulation yes

-This is quite limited magma manipulation. And resistance to heat.

-This is literally just lowering their defence by burning them (though they kinda negate durability with soul hax anyway)

  • Muffet
-Agree

-This is actually Statistics Reduction

-Definitely agree with thread manipulation. Especially considering her purple ability and ability to release frisk from the web and allow him to walk across.

-I mean. It tells us her webs are a higher degree of 9-A at least.

-Technically they were jamming the phone itself

-Not sure about that. Seems like her just making her sound effect and making what can be considered as either a happy or hurt expression

-Fighting frisk or a good amount of time can be noted

-Not sure what this would change on her profile as we already know she can fight frisk and has decently high statistics.

  • Chara
-If a chara posessed frisk is capable of making the likes of doggo shiver like that. Then i see no reason for her not to have fear manipulation at full power. Though this does scale to chara and not frisk of course

Now about the hotlands. While the hotlands has been rejected for not scaling to mettatons oven. It still did perform the feat of evaporating water. Considering the rating here for a 1m cubed block of water. Assuming the cup to be 10cm cubed would be 9-A alone based on the instant evaporation calc used there (if i am using the calc correctly at least). Although this would change their ap, it would give heat resistance.

However, puddles of water can also form one room beforehand without evaporating which already makes the feat itself questionable. What do you think about that?
 
It's not likely the weapons were for display as she had them stored in the same drawer as her cooking utensils.

Undyne was already fighting at full power. She fights the same even if you've killed people.

Those possibilities would be an even bigger assumption than Undyne causing you to be unable to sell them.

You don't use a stovetop to heat a pie, you use an oven. Not to mention that would be an incredibly inefficient way to heat a pie evenly.

It has Flight, the DImensional Boxes, a key chain, connection to the Undernet, and the bomb defusal function.

She has other bookshelves in her house too, it should apply to those too.

Except Asgore named the very kingdom that has existed since before written history. Plus Catty mentioning they've spent millennia underground supports it.

Timmy Turner has a cold resistance from a situation where he had to rapidly escape from the room it was happening in, so a situation where he wasn't even affected by it should give him such too.

Actually, the reason Papyrus gives to Undyne as to why he doesn't feel it is that he has no skin.

All of the other Papyrus stuff was discussed on the other post. I'm the one who got Levitation and Power Sensing on his profile already.

It's supposed to represent the game, it's never actually been inaccurate.

Alphys helping Frisk in the first part wasn't planned. In fact we don't know exactly if it was planned in ANY of the parts.

That's exactly what I said it was.

I didn't actually know that existed. I thought it was all just Power Nullification.

How was it jamming the phone? It literally said it was blocking the signals.

It says something about her fighting skills.


How was it rejected for not scaling to Mettaton's ovens? Hotland's heat does more to Armorless Undyne than the overloading of the oven did.

I think it's because the room is right next to Waterfall and Undyne only fell unconcious because she was in armor.
 
I haven't had the time to read through all of this, but Andytrenom seemed to make sense.

You should preferably also use the Undertale verse page and the Knowledgeable Members List to find people to ask to comment here.
 
Yes, but our standard praxis is to gather input from different knowledgeable people, so we do not make any serious mistakes.
 
So far i have agreed on:

  • Undyne
-weopan mastery

-Limited telekinesis with spears

  • Toriel
-add ons to intelligence

-I suppose this seems like a reasonable add on as well.

- adjusting the weakness explanation so shes not holding back against absolutely everybody in character

  • Papyrus
-Resistance to cold due to being skinless

-Maybe limited willpower?

-limited power sensing

  • Alphys
-I dont see how the display on the loading screen in any way scales to their true stats

-Limited magnetism manipulation

-Healing with instant noodles

-Working faster than gaster

  • Vulkin
-limited smoke manipulation

-limited magma manipulation. And resistance to heat.

  • Muffet
-Social influencing

-Statistics reduction

-Thread manipulation

-Stamina for fighting frisk

  • Chara
Fear manipulation

I think the reason this thread (and others similar) is being ignored a lot is due to the long list of abilities which only provide minor corrections to the characters profiles, with staff and members being busy with a lot of other stuff. Its a lot to look through with little pay off. Not that its pointless or anything. But its something to keep in mind when making ctrs.
 
We need more VS Battles Staff member (administrator & discussion moderator) input, and Azathoth is essentially in charge of Undertale.
 
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