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Very Small Sealed Dialga/Palkia Possible Upgrade

The_real_cal_howard

The_real_cal_howard

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And when I say small, I mean small. Like, it doesn't even change their tier.

Since we know that the Pokedex only has knowledge on the sealed forms, it mentions dimensions in the plural when talking about Palkia, and we know the average professor has knowledge on the existence of several alternate universes (the normal universe, Bronzong's universe, the Spirit World, the Dream World, the Interdream Zone, and the universe Mega Gengar slips into), would the statements for Dialga's heartbeat and Palkia's breath apply to this local "multiverse" instead of just the normal universe?
 
Where does that nonsense with Sealed and Unsealed comes from, I ask AGAIN? Because if we're throwing literally every feats we know about them to the sealed form, what purpose even is the unsealed form?
 
I guess it would count towards the Multiverse but I'm not 100% on that.
 
@Saikou

I think their unsealed forms appear before they are bound by the Red Chain once before. They were just a mass of near-formless energy, presumably time and space, before being forced into their normal Pokemon bodies.

But I am not an expert on Palkia/Diagla's form changing.
 
I still don't understand where the Creation Trio having sealed forms comes from.
 
Because I have no answer, unfortunately. And I like having tier 2-C Creation and Lake Trio. I know, right? Cal wanting Pokemon, let alone the gods, having a weak stat? Absurd!
 
The only "evidence" people seem to have of the Creation Trio having sealed forms is Dialga and Palkia looking different for two seconds.
 
At the very best, what Assalt said is merely a distinction between their Conceptual form and their physical form. But putting every high end feats to that Unsealed key, yet assuming every time Dialga and Palkia appears is their sealed form seems really silly, especially if all of this is based on a single episode of the anime.

Hell if every feat that we see from them and all the statements from them applies to the sealed version, then why are only the unsealed versions the ones with the 2-B stats?
 
Idk. Because sealed forms aren't conceptual like that, maybe? Best guess. And the sealed forms may or may not be in the games.
 
Doesn't Cynthia's statement in the Sinjoh Ruins also kinda make a difference between sealed and unsealed? As well as the pokedex?

The trio are regarded as being their concepts themselves but clearly their physical forms would mean they also physically roam around in avatars.
 
I say that there is no division between sealed and unsealed form. This has never been suggested, asserted, implied or even speculated at any time in the entire Pokémon franchise. To say that this exists is to force an interpretation of something that has never been there, probably for some personal interest. This is pure invention.

Frankly, I felt compelled to comment, I'm fed up with nonsenses and baseless statements.
 
None of the Pokédex entries comes anywhere near close to hinting at several forms.

Or. Or. Or. That Pokémon simply doesn't care about portraying these Pokémon as abstract beings all the time. Or that they actually aren't abstracts.
 
Kevyn Souza said:
I say that there is no division between sealed and unsealed form. This has never been suggested, asserted, implied or even speculated at any time in the entire Pokémon franchise. To say that this exists is to force an interpretation of something that has never been there, probably for some personal interest. This is pure invention.
Click to expand...
I wouldnt go that far. The anime clearly implies this by the fact that they're non-corpoeral until the Red Chain materlizes them by force.
 
This continues to force an interpretation that is not there. "Being has gained a body" and only, anything that goes beyond that (taking a new key, saying that it is sealed, and saying that one is inferior to another because it is corporeal) is pure invention.

The Red Chain doesn't restrict the power of the Pokémon. "Materializing" something has nothing to do with splitting into keys and making the lower form, it is just giving a body. His being remains the same.
26179445 2007309536210229 394306767 o
 
Except I wasn't talking about power, at all. I was talking about the pokemon themselves.

Clearly the chain doesnt make them weaker but that doesnt mean the pokemon themselves aren't restricted when clearly they are. Your scans even say this.
 
I'm talking about this division into keys. And my screenshot implies this about the Poké Ball, which in absolutely nothing has to do with "sealed form" and "unsealed form". Unless there is concrete evidence that there is such a restriction as well as division, I'll state categorically that it doesn't exist. To say that "It doesn't mean that they aren't restricted" doesn't prove that they are, that is to reverse the burden of proof, that it is up to the person who gave the first statement. Use Occam's razor, and don't add premises that don't exist to complicate something that is simple.
 
For one, I never claimed they get weaker when getting a body, so don't put words in my mouth. I agreed with you pretty much that their power doesnt lower but at the same time them maintaining a body from the chain would still mean their "sealed" just not in a "power weakens" kind of sense.
 
And what does it have to do with "having a body" with "being sealed"? These two propositions were never synonymous. And if there is no variation in power or anything between these two inventions, there simply should not be a key that differentiates them, for being literally the same thing.

I defy anyone who advocates the existence of sealed and unsealed forms to show a single source in the game that points out a difference between sealed and unsealed forms as they are being applied in their profiles. If no one can show, I suggest simply removing that division from their profiles.
 
Well as far as the first part goes, it should be obvious no? They're regarded as the literal concepts of what they govern normally. Dialga time, Palkia space, etc. With being given a physical body to roam around in instead of being just their concepts, thus given physical limitations, it'd be sealing in a way but I guess that can be taken with a grain of salt.

For arguments sake, lets say we do remove the distinction. Even with their physical bodies, they'd simply be 2-B all-together instead of one 2-B and the other 2-C?
 
@Kukui Why? That's just giving a body. Having one absolutely has no relation to having physical limits, many characters who have bodies are considered transcendent beings without physical limitations. It is not because they have become corporeal that they have magically gained limitations that they did not have before, gaining a body only means gaining a body and nothing else. It is literally the same to be manifested bodily.

And the "sealed" form (which I claim to be non-existent) would be literally the same thing as the "unsealed" form, with the difference of who "has a body."
 
My problem comes from the fact that we apply every feats to this supposed unsealed form yet only scale other people to their sealed form. Simply making a distinction between their physical avatar and their true selves isn't bad. But they shouldn't be assumed to have different stats.
 
Nobody is saying that the mere act of having a body means they're weaker. They're weaker because the bodies they use to manifest aren't the full entities, which are just the concepts themselves.
 
Where was it stated that they aren't the full entities? I challenged anyone to show me a link to this, so far nothing. Again: It is literally the same being, in a body. If the only basis for suggesting that it is not the full entity is just being a concept in a body, then that is exactly what all advocates of the sealed and unsealed form say. I already sent a screenshot that says explicitly that the Red Chain doesn't restrict the power of the Pokémon, the proof is clearly there for anyone who wants to see it.
 
I fail to see how a disembodied concept primal to reality itself suddenly assuming a physical avatar to interact with the mortal world (of which he is a key aspect of, and is thus everywhere at onc) in ways easily understandable by mortals is not an implication that it is not the full entity.
 
Regardless if it's not the full entity, never is it shown or stated that the Creation Trio diminish in power by simply manifesting.

That's like saying any conceptual being has two forms just because they manifest from being a concept.
 
You said it's not because they have a body, but I doubt anyone would say that it was restricted if they weren't embodied. We can't say that he magically grew weaker just because "he is understandable by mortals". Mainly because concepts ALSO ARE understood by mortals from the very etymology of the word concept (concept comes from the Latin concepto, meaning that mean "understanding"; source in Portuguese), but also because being understood has nothing to do with being inferior in a matter of power.

Sorry, but nothing you said is in any part of the game, Matt. It turns out that it does not depend on "failing to see how", but rather on what the work shows, and the work has clearly shown that the Red Chains allow the power of the entity to be used without any restriction. Why, after all, insist that it has restriction, when the work itself explicitly contradicts it? So much so that I asked for substantial proof from anyone who defends this idea, and none here gave it.
 
If the Red Chains have been stated not to restrict power, we may want to remove their sealed forms entirely. Pure multiverse busters, through and through.
 
Well i'll ask this right now.

If we do decide to off the sealed stats, and just make the CT straight up 2-B, then the following pokemon:

Incomplete Arceus, Lake Trio, Darkrai, Cresselia, Lucario 7, Hoopa (via his summoning, not on his own),

And likely more, would also become 2-B right?
 
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