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Very Important Dragon Ball Super Revision

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We don't always take multipliers 100% literally and we also don't have character A > B > C to go from 2-C to 2-B. 3-A and above is where Tier jumps become really nonlinear and overly complex regardless of whether the gaps are finite or not.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
That would indicate all of the Angels should be 2-C now and that Gogeta could scale to likely 2-C.
Click to expand...
Again, angels can be possibly/likely 2-C, but there isn't any concrete evidence that Gogeta can take on Beerus+Champa combined, due to reasons I already mentioned which I'd prefer if you don't ignore.

Out of curiosity, is the gap between 2-C and 2-B considered infinite, just as it is for Low 2-C and 2-C? Or would anyone scaling to over 1000x 2-C be 2-B?
The gap between 2-C and 2-B or Low 2-C and 2-C is unquantifiable. No amount of multiplier can make you tier jump after 3-A, according to our current standards.
 
I remember a time, when Ryukama proposed an upgrade for 2-B Zeno due to the existence of countless timelines as each time ring proves the existence of each timeline. But it was deemed too vague.

And yeah, I think it's worded as 4th Spatial Dimension that separates two or more Universes rather than 5th Dimension. 5 Dimension is an upper hierarchy that transcends in infinite number of universes and 5th spatial dimension also connects 2 or more 5-Dimensional multiverses. Or something like that, but Ultima Reality would explain it better.
 
I don't know if you're talking about Dragon Ball specifically or real life theories, but if it's the latter here's how I understand it, 5 dimensions is the level when the concept of parallel universes appears; as in parallel universes don't combine to form a 5 D structure but they are arranged across 5 axes of timespace
 
Antoniofer and Ultima Reality said some things on other threads with those definitions. I was just referring to what I heard from them. And plenty of staff agree that "5-dimensional barrier" isn't really the right way to put it. Parallel Universe is still only 4-D.
 
Who mentions a barrier anyway? Every reasoning I have heard for the gap between low 2-C and 2-C or used myself have related to the distance between the universes
 
Why in the hell would you need to jump another axis to be 2-B?

It's specifically mentioned in the tiering page; the jump between Low 2-C and 2-C cannot be done with multipliers and such because one would need to cross a 5-D axis in order to reach the other timeline. This is not a problem with 2-C to 2-B since the only difference between the two is just how many timelines is being affected; there's no extra 5D Bullshit attached. So AKM, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
 
Eh! I never said anything about the 5-D axis. Just said what our current standard is, the gap is unquantifiable and no amount of multipliers can make a tier jump.

Note 6: Due to the fact that the distance between any given number of universes is currently unknowable, it is impossible to quantify the numerical gap between each one of the subtiers in Tier 2. As such, it is not allowed to upgrade such a character based solely on multipliers. For example, someone twice as strong as a Low 2-C character would still be Low 2-C, and someone infinitely more powerful than a 2-C would not be 2-A.

Currently, we rate characters who are infinitely more powerful than a 2-C as "At least 2-C". Ant also doesn't agree with this, but it's not the right place to talk about a potential revision of the tiering system.
 
Anyway, so far I'm still agreeing with the mod team. This "multipliers" stuff should be thrown away all together.


And especially no 2-C Gogeta.
 
"Anyway, so far I'm still agreeing with the mod team. This "multipliers" stuff should be thrown away all together."

... But none of the mods ever flat out said "Throw out all multipliers". And throwing it away is an immensely rash (Heh) move that ignores the fact that there is, in-fact, actual canon multipliers for a very real in-verse technique with blatant effects. The Kaioken?

Unless you're talking about the Multipliers in the case of Universal Tiering, which as above is mentioned to possibly be reworked as it takes large mental gymnastics to properly understand.

"And especially no 2-C Gogeta."

Reason being? Nobody's pushing for flat out 2-C Gogeta; the best people are getting is a likely or possibly. Since Beerus himself is basically as maxed a Low 2-C could get with this discussion; someone scaling above him could jump them up to 2-C.

"Eh! I never said anything about the 5-D axis. Just said what our current standard is, the gap is unquantifiable and no amount of multipliers can make a tier jump."

Ah. Sorry. Misinterpreted. But yeah, I agree that this rule is sort of... weird.

I also have to question why an infinity multiplier can't get someone to 2-A since if the problem is distance between timelines, then it wouldn't matter since the character is literally generating infinite amounts of Timeline-busting, 5-D axis crossing energy. Any finite "distance" between timelines should be null and void, no? Unknown or not. Heck the rule itself states such:

"Due to the fact that the distance between any given number of universes is currently unknowable, it is impossible to quantify the numerical gap between each one of the subtiers in Tier 2."

If someone gets a boost of Infinity in power, this shouldn't at all be a problem. One wouldn't need to quantify any numerical gap at all since no matter how large the number and whatnot, you have infinite energy generation. Literally does not matter. And it's not like you'd need to jump to the 6th Axis to move through such.

But yeah, long opinion report aside, weird rule.
 
This is why I said 2-C to 2-A needs to be revised. All three multiversal tiers require you to do 2 things and 2 things only and that's destroying multiple universes as well as the gap in between. Since that's required for all 3 tiers, then there's no reason multipliers shouldn't be used because you're literally multiplying the amount of universes you can destroy and how big of a 5D axis you can destroy. It's just natural progression.

As for Gogeta, I already explained why he's likely to be 2-C.
 
The wikis stance is they don't use multipliers for tier 2. It makes sense going from Low 2-C to 2-C since we can't quantify the multiplier needed to go from 1 to 2 space times. However that reasoning is falacious at 2-C, since multipliers are perfectly reasonable from 2-C and up since the feat being scaled from already considers the distance between multiple space times if it is 2-C or higher.

Copied that from elsewhere. How' you're right, this should be discussed elsewhere.
 
yet we can't use it because it goes against the teiring system.

I agreed we need to revise Tier 2
 
Reaching 2-C already proves you can cross the 5D axis. Dragon Ball characters generally have all of their statistics, including range, scale with their AP.

So I'm not seeing why a DB character being 1,000x stronger wouldn't be enough to be considered 2-B. Especially when we have a model of the multiverse depicting the universes as having the same distances, in a circular formation with nothing contradicting this.

There is also Infinite Zamasu, who Jiren far surpasses, that was already crossing into other timelines entirely before his erasure.

There are also other considerations, like Goku and Jiren shaking the entire World of Void, which should be taken into account for the range of the characters.

So if Zamasu can cross timelines with his power (who Jiren far surpasses), if Beerus and Champa can cross the 5D axis (who Gogeta scales considerably above at minimum) and if Goku and Jiren can shake the entire World of Void...then what exactly is the issue with scaling these characters to 2-B based if they are proven to be 1000x stronger than before?

It seems fairly open and shut that they already have absurd range, they can cross the 5D axis, they have the AP to do it and their range should increase with their AP. So, overall, there is nothing contradicting a person scaling to, say, 10x 2-C, not being able to destroy all 12 universes in the main timeline.
 
Yeah, I'm just questioning for in the future when characters would start scaling higher than that. It's arguable that the Grand Priest would probably scale far above the Angels and the Angels probably scale far above Gogeta, who should be likely 2-C for casually stomping a Beerus-level person. But I understand there is no real evidence to scale them to being capable of destroying the entire DB multiverse.
 
Dragon Ball isn't the only one though. Mega Man EXE and God of War have long scaling chains across 2-C. For instance, if you're baseline 2-C and get 1,000x stronger, you won't be 2-B but baseline 2-C. It's pretty arbitrary if you ask me.
 
Unless Goku fights someone whos power can affect through out all 12 universe and across all timelines.

Would that be enough for base 2-B
 
Trunks explained that the timelines function on a 'Many Worlds' theory where every choice, every possible change, branches into another timeline. So if there was a character that influenced ALL timelines it would be a ridiculously, absurdly, powerful 2-B. The highest it could be without being 2-A, I think.

That's why the DBH characters like Xeno Goku are considered among the most powerful 2-Bs in terms of AP. They could collapse all timelines in their base forms by fighting.
 
The real cal howard said:
Even if they were to hit 2-C, they'd be the epitome of baseline.
Click to expand...
I'd even argue that Gogeta is 2-C at all, since the argument presented for him having an AP equal or superior to the Beerus + Champa fight is "he stomped Broly". What a news, probably UI Blanco Goku could've done that faster, and he is Low 2-C

Him hitting baseline 2-C is already overestimating him beyond any possible comprehension IMHO.
 
Okay? Vegeta was literally 50x stronger than Broly and he was able to adapt. If the gap between Gogeta and Broly was any lower than 50x Broly would've caught on and stomped Gogeta.
 
What a news, probably UI Blanco Goku could've done that faster, and he is Low 2-C

UI Goku has some evidence of being stronger than Beerus and has the abilities of Ultra Instinct to aid him further. Broly has evidence of being stronger than Beerus.

UI Goku and Broly, based on what we know, have similar AP but Goku has his UI abilities, so he would likely beat Broly. At the same time, Jiren w/o UI could tag, hurt and pressure UI Goku, meaning UI has its limits.

So if Gogeta can curbstomp Broly casually, when Broly should have similar power to UI Goku then, Gogeta would very likely crush UI Goku.

Again, I'm not claiming Gogeta is 2-C. I am arguing that, due to stomping a Beerus-level opponent, Gogeta should be likely 2-C. Considering anyone 2x Beerus should be treated as 2-C, based on the arguments made here. Please refer back to the definition of 'Likely' to get an idea of what claiming such a thing would actually mean, regarding how Gogeta is scaled.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
What a news, probably UI Blanco Goku could've done that faster, and he is Low 2-C
UI Goku has some evidence of being stronger than Beerus and has the abilities of Ultra Instinct to aid him further. Broly has evidence of being stronger than Beerus.

UI Goku and Broly, based on what we know, have similar AP but Goku has his UI abilities, so he would likely beat Broly. At the same time, Jiren w/o UI could tag, hurt and pressure UI Goku, meaning UI has its limits.

So if Gogeta can curbstomp Broly casually, when Broly should have similar power to UI Goku then, Gogeta would very likely crush UI Goku.

Again, I'm not claiming Gogeta is 2-C. I am arguing that, due to stomping a Beerus-level opponent, Gogeta should be likely 2-C. Considering anyone 2x Beerus should be treated as 2-C, based on the arguments made here. Please refer back to the definition of 'Likely' to get an idea of what claiming such a thing would actually mean, regarding how Gogeta is scaled.
Click to expand...
How do we know it's not for UIO's third awakening? If anything that's where we got the evidence of Beerus being surpassed.
 
AwkguyDB said:
How do we know it's not for UIO's third awakening? If anything that's where we got the evidence of Beerus being surpassed.
Click to expand...
According to a translator (I'd have to go track down the tweet) the translated text from the magazine specifically refers to 'silver hair' and was for...I think Episode 129 or 130. UIO has some silver shine to it but it's extremely doubtful that it was referring to that.
 
I agree with the fact of IZ .... He was borderline 2-C, and I'm surprised him slightly affecting the other timeline isn't considered an eventually feat but considered that would give him the tier " Low 2-C , possibly 2-C" or just "Possibly 2-C" as he essentially was minimally affecting the timeline ... and if he was capable of doing such ... even subtly... it should be enough to change.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Okay? Vegeta was literally 50x stronger than Broly and he was able to adapt. If the gap between Gogeta and Broly was any lower than 50x Broly would've caught on and stomped Gogeta.
Click to expand...
Flase analogy. Base Broly having that kind of gain doesn't mean Green Broly would have it too.
 
AKM sama said:
Zamasu Chan said:
Okay? Vegeta was literally 50x stronger than Broly and he was able to adapt. If the gap between Gogeta and Broly was any lower than 50x Broly would've caught on and stomped Gogeta.
Click to expand...
Flase analogy. Base Broly having that kind of gain doesn't mean Green Broly would have it too.
Click to expand...
Are you...perhaps, joking?

Base Gogeta dodged all of SS Broly's attacks with extreme ease (as described in the novel). Broly was overwhelmed by SS Gogeta but then started to clash evenly with him, resulting in a beam clash in which they tied. Broly then grew stronger and went FPSS, who SS Gogeta couldn't damage and prompted him to go Blue.

In other words, Broly adapted to SS Gogeta, became far stronger than him and then prompted Gogeta to go Blue.
 
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