Versus Thread Removal Requests 4

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Toshiro only has one Hax, one. Unless you want to argue that a single ability makes it a stomp which is ludicrous. Restricting Toshiro's hax is like restricting Ryuko's regen and reactive evolution.

Also, since when an easy victory equals stomp? I'm using timestop as the example of a way for a match to gain an easy victory. A stomp is where a character has no real way to put their opponent down.

 

[AquaWaifu]

*snip*

Explain to me how Ryuko is going to get any chance to even attack him, let alone get an "inconclusive" end to this match when he can literally freeze her instantly and it NULLS her REGEN.


literally all it takes is "freeze, use sword to effortlessly cut her in half, dead."

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Shockwaves is a good way to for Ryuko to at least prevent Toshiro from attacking her, afterimages can confused the hell out of him too so that she can sneak attack him.

Also, I still fail to see how is an easy victory equals stomp?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

So previously, a unanimous vote ruled in favor of Nagisa in his battle against pre-god Yuno. However, a particularly detailed (and rather admirable) analysis was later given by @Pisan that put this result into question. However, due to the battle having been concluded, this argument (as well as my own attempt to continue the discussion) was completely disregarded and the thread was closed. While I was certainly somewhat happy that the character I like better won, it didn't sit right with me that so much effort and thought had gone to waste

For all I know, maybe the original result still stands, but I feel like the argument he made at least warrants looking at.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/356894

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Also, I still fail to see how is an easy victory equals stomp?

indeed.

its a stomp if ryuko had nothing to do in the first place.

She had the regen advantage and the AP advantage,We all agreed she could have one shotted toshiro if she wanted

the problem is......we debated siding with toshiro and majority thought he would win

the fact that people like burning were able to push further with ryuko is a testament to why its not a stomp

i dont see why being decisive=stomp

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

stuff

more stuff

matchup

After taking the time to read through the thread, I can say with absolute certainty that it should not have been closed.

Before I say my piece, I want to be clear that this wasn't the admin's fault. I'm pretty sure Ant was passing by, saw the people saying 'this is old and needs to be closed' and proceeded to fulfill their wishes without realizing what had been posted prior to their comments. That's an easy mistake, especially for someone as busy as he usually is. I don't fault him.

Now as far as the thread itself? The votes in favor of Nagisa were:

• Two simple, one-sentence comments summing up all of like three advantages between them.

• A handful of comments basically restating what the above two said.

• A bunch of those sweet, sweet FRA votes we all know and love.

That's Problem #1. Problem #2 is that the person who came in and voted against the majority rule D E S T R O Y E D all of the reasoning that had been agreed upon. Not some of it. Not half of it. Not most of it. All of it.

And then we see Problem #3. The OP and one of the people who had already voted for Nagisa decided to just handwave the guy's extremely detailed explanation for why the result was wrong, even though with just one post he managed to debunk all of the (literally only three) reasons why Nagisa should win against Yuno. Basically, people looked at him, said "welp, you should've got here sooner", and then proceeded to call for the thread to be closed before an actual debate could start.

The reason why the thread's closure would seem like the right thing to do in the eyes of an outsider is because the thread was really, really old, and had already reached a conclusion prior the guy's arrival. (another reason why I don't fault Ant for coming and closing it at the time) But if there's one thing of which I'm absolutely certain, it's that the thread's conclusion was based on faulty logic that got one-shot by someone who actually cared enough to analyze the matchup the way it should have been done in the first place.

So yeah, I think this should be removed from their pages. It shouldn't have been added to begin with.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

^Also, just as a friendly reminder, a much larger-scale version of the above almost happened in another thread centered around two far more popular profiles on this wiki some time ago, but when the big debunk came along, the pre-existing result ended up getting shot down harder than Osama.

(I was even there amongst the people pointing out the conclusion of that particular match, at least until I realized how wrong said result was and promptly shut my mouth. Let's just say it wasn't a day to be proud.)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Dayum King, tear it apart why dont you

 

[Xanxussama1010]

Alright, sicnce I'm an OP, I will dubunk it

First, I think Pisan is underestimate Nagisa so much by repeatly said "he's just a 15 year old" again and again, by he forgot that Nagisa is a 15 years old guy who was trained by the greatest assassin of the world and the top member of goverment who specialize in combats. Not just a mere 15 yesrs old boy.

Second, Nagisa can reading/discernment people. He can just look on Yuno and tell that "She is really strong and dangerous" and can decide about best way to deal with her.

Third, from second, what choice that he decide to deal with her, fight her face to face? No way, he should know that he can't win agiainst her with that. Nagisa specialize in assasination, so his decision should be escape from rooftop, find the place to hide in building, hide his bloodlust and for a change for a surpise attack that can finish her before she can react, like he do when he defeated 4 classmates in a row.

Forth, Nagisa used to defeated several people who stronger than him. Such as Takaoka, an assassin who use whip, Karma and several trained militaries. Especially for last one which I pretty sure that they stronger and have experience on combat more than Yuno. So Nagisa weaker strength is not the point. Nagisa's quick mind did allow him to win against a tougher opponent (who is also not a slouch in the smarts department either).

Fifth, Class E's special cloths was designed to have great resistance with protect wearers in several situation. And Nagisa can survive from ruthless attack by God of Death who is far stronger than basline 9-B (Whick I pretty sure that he far stronger than Yuno too). So I don't think one stab from Yuno can take down Nagisa. And when she do, It will let Nagisa a change to use assassination technique to finish her.

Sixth, Of cause Nagisa Clap Stunner should work on her, Yuno isn't Karma who can negate it by bite his own tongue. She don't know about this technique and don't know about how it work, so Clap Stunner + Stungun is enough to finish her.

And this is my argument about why Nagisa is the winner. So I don't see how the result of match should be changed.

 

[TeenAngel101]

I read through it, and yeah. People were just siding with the majority when this guy debunks all their reasoning. People are even saying not to close it since the previous votes don't count.

And I don't blame Ant, I blame everyone else, especially the OP, who keep saying to close the thread despite the fact that the previous votes are now rendered moot.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

@Xansussama:

I'm sure that there would have been fine enough if someone had actually said that much in the thread itself. But nobody did. You had two voters who voted with simple, basic reasons, then a mob of others who showed up with the FRAs. Barely any analysis whatsoever.

And as for your reasoning itself, it isn't the point. If you felt his own reasoning was faulty, you should have countered him in the thread yourself instead of saying 'this is old/concluded' and asking for closure. Even as the OP, you're very much obligated to point out flaws in people's reasoning, not disregard their replies entirely. And regardless of that, it wouldn't change how utterly vapid much of the prior reasoning in that thread was, and certainly wouldn't negate the fact that his explanation was astronomically more reasonable than anyone else's in that thread.

The way it went down was a cheat. Plain and simple.

 

[Xanxussama1010]

Let me clear another thing, I don't mind about debunked it. We have several matches that have redux again and again for new result. But we didn't do it by necro old concluded thread. If you want to debunk, you should make new thread for it.


Anyway, ny apologize for didn't clear it at first.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Why do you think I want it removed? Another rematch between the two would certainly be more reasonable than leaving what's on their profiles despite its obvious flaws.

I also think you might be misinterpreting my intentions. I don't know anything about either of the characters, nor do I even care all that much about them. The end result of their fight doesn't matter to me, and probably won't matter to me even if the results are removed and the match is remade. I just happen to understand, both as a debater and as an outside party, that this thread shouldn't have been closed when it was, not when the entirety of its conclusion had just been thrown into question.

It's not a matter of interest. It's a matter of fairness. This wasn't fair to the person who took the time to respond, nor was it fair to anyone else who felt he might have had some bearing on the outcome. It was the absolute wrong way for things to go down. That's why I feel it should be removed. Nothing more.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Anywho, I need to go to sleep for now. I'm not going to dictate what should happen next, but I really do think this should be looked at again. If it stays, then it stays, but it's something that should have been more closely evaluated before it was accepted and closed.

 

[TeenAngel101]

Also regarding my request for the removal of Bill Cipher's wins.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Shockwaves is a good way to for Ryuko to at least prevent Toshiro from attacking her, afterimages can confused the hell out of him too so that she can sneak attack him.
Also, I still fail to see how is an easy victory equals stomp?

again all it takes from him is a hand gesture. Also the guy a genius and has been able to see through a lot of deceptions. I dont think Ryuko's type of afterimages are going to do much here.


What is a stomp to you then?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

A fight where one side has no real method to put down the other.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

A fight where one side has no real method to put down the other.

^this

 

[AquaWaifu]

*snip*

But Yomi, Toshi's bankai ability there nullfies BOTH. regen cause thats how it works with abilities and AP cause well it freezes to basically absolute zero and without her regen he can literally slice her in half an be done with it.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Again, how is a SINGLE ability can makes a fight stomp?

Also, Toshiro's ice isn't AZ actually.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

She still has method's to put him down,yes? Then i disagree that its a stomp

your justifying how toshiro wins here tbh not how toshiro stomps her.

 

[Bepo4151]

If we consider matches like Erza and Samurai Jack against Ryuko to not be stomps. When they literally can't kill her. I don't see a reason why Toshiro match should be removed given that Ryuko has a way of winning with her superior AP.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Also, Toshiro's ice isn't AZ actually.

Indeed it isn't

 

[AquaWaifu]

because it completely ends the fight the moment its used. and iirc he's very likely to start with it. Unless there is a chance to take him out before it can be used. or there is a chance of an "inconclusive type scenario, its a stomp.


Ryuko does not generally start with shockwaves especially given she's fighting a guy with a sword ( to most this would like to close range combat)and in general is a cqc fighter herself. and wouldnt know of his abilities.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

because it completely ends the fight the moment its used. and iirc he's very likely to start with it. Unless there is a chance to take him out before it can be used. or there is a chance of an "inconclusive type scenario, its a stomp.

Its in character for toshiro to use flash freeze,Yes thats true

Is it in character for toshiro to use Flash Freeze and Just kill his enemies instantly? heck no

He uses flash freeze once and she breaks away from it with her regen nullified

the fight continues,and we agreed toshiro wins after that.

Again,What's the problem here?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Dude, one shotting your opponent before they can one shot you isn't really a stomp. The fight would be boring yes, but it definiely is not a stomp.

 

[AquaWaifu]

So he uses FF and doesnt go to kill her?

 

[TeenAngel101]

Dude, this is like saying every one of Luke Skywalker's wins is a stomp.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

We proposed the "one shot" scenario as an easy way out

But we gave ryuko the benefit and decided to go with

"Toshiro Nulls her regen,freezes Senketsu and slices it,Kills her"

we legit gave a method for toshiro here

I think your under the impression that "Toshiro freezes and one shots" which is not the scenario we agreed on since that's boring

 

[Schnee_One]

Shockwaves is a good way to for Ryuko to at least prevent Toshiro from attacking her, afterimages can confused the hell out of him too so that she can sneak attack him.
Also, I still fail to see how is an easy victory equals stomp?

again all it takes from him is a hand gesture. Also the guy a genius and has been able to see through a lot of deceptions. I dont think Ryuko's type of afterimages are going to do much here.


What is a stomp to you then?

I don't get you Aqua, I really don't.

You have no issue voting on threads/Make threads where it's impossible for Ryuko to lose because the opponent can't get past her Regen and don't call it a stomp, but when a character can and she loses, or when it's a character you like *Cough Hakumen vs Mr. Wednesday*Cough you call it a stomp.

So I guess it's okay as long as it's Ryuko right?

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

So he uses FF and doesnt go to kill her?

Precisely.

 

[AquaWaifu]

*snip*

I would ask that you not insult me like that.

 

[Schnee_One]

You mean point out blatant hypocrisy?

You're completely okay when Ryuko can't lose because her opponent can't beat her Regen, but when the tables are turned, you call stomp. And this is not the only example.

If we went by this logic, every Ryuko match except one would he removed because not a single one of her wins aside from Sheele have her defeat opponents that can gypass her Regen.

Don't want me to insult you, don't act this way.

 

[TeenAngel101]

Also, he didn't insult you, he was pointing out how you are okay with these kinds of matches when Ryüko wins, but when she loses, you call it a stomp and demand it's immediate removal.

You can't have it both ways. I fail to see why this should be removed.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Actually I've come to agree since you brought up she can break out of it. I misremebered the thread concluding with, "she gets froze, Hitsugaya slashes her while she is frozen.

if she can brak out then yeah its not a stomp.


My whole thing was I thought she couldnt break out despite AP advantage.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Yes,it seems aqua finally grasped the fight conclusion

no need to press on him any further

 

[Schnee_One]

Can break out or not, it's not a stomp.

 

[AquaWaifu]

this is not the thread to be making such accussations.

Samurai Jack: He was agreed to have the skill to knock her out.

Donkey Kong: ehh he loses due to strength and range disadvantage

Erza: very close fight with Ryuko's regen giving her the win ultimately, also KO is possibly for Erza.

Naruto: she won due to insane stamina and regen and I said her reactive evolution helps deal with what I think was an AP gap and some of his less complicated abilities.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Can break out or not, it's not a stomp.

If she couldnt break out and he starts with it then yeah it would be since the ability requires no effort on his part to use and can be done easily and quickly and nulls her regen.

 

[Schnee_One]

2. And the fact that he can't get past his regen.

4. And he can't get past her regen.

Hitsugaya has one move that wins him the fight, it isn't a stomp no matter how you look at it.