Vergil vs Goku

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Question

Has anyone brought up that Vergil has Mid Regen?

I am pretty sure it's rendered ineffectual from pure AP difference.

 

[Schnee_One]

That's very much not true.

Sure, a swipe attack will kill Vergil but if Goku wins for the chest, which admittedly, he doesn't do often. Vergil will still survive, and he has no problem attacking after he's been impaled

 

[Ogbunabali]

That's not what Royalguard is. "Martial arts" won't save you from blocking omnidirectional space cutting attacks, or energy beams, or Mundus's Particle Beam or even create a visible forcefield around you.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I would have thought such an AP difference would have ended with something close to pulverization, but I am not very knowledgeable about this.

 

[Schnee_One]

I would have thought such an AP difference would have ended with something close to pulverization, but I am not very knowledgeable about this.

Not really no, unless there's an AoE effect to the punch that I'm not aware of.

A average man who's shot with a Barrett M82 in the chest will instantly die, but he won't explode, despite the fact that the difference between even an above average human and the rifle is 180x.

It's unlikely for Goku to go for a chest strike, but if he does, there is Vergil, with a perfect opening to Slice him in half.

 

[Dragomer]

Gohan vs Cell Jrs, the AP gap was lower and yet Gohan punched through them and they exploded and couldn't regenerate despite having far better regen than Virgil.

Also Goku would either blast him, eblow him in the stomachg (bisecting him completly) or slug him in the face, all of which Virgil can't regenerate from even if we say it wouldn't dust him.

so no, his regen doesn't matter here.

 

[Schnee_One]

You mean the blast that covered Cells entire body?

Is Goku's punch bigger then Vergils body?

A ki blast will kill him if it's large enough I agree, but elbowing him in the chest will absolutely not kill him

 

[DragonEmperor23]

He's talking about the Cell Juniors. Gohan punched them and then they exploded.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdOS5mRCutA

 

[Schnee_One]

If it's true they exploded

Why couldn't they regenerate?

Regenerationn from exploding requires High Mid

Even then, Gohan swiped them away instead of punching through the chest, the former kills Vergil, the latter does not.

 

[Dragomer]

You mean the blast that covered Cells entire body?
Is Goku's punch bigger then Vergils body?

A ki blast will kill him if it's large enough I agree, but elbowing him in the chest will absolutely not kill him

Nope, i mean the punch that went throught the Cell Jrs and made them explode.

Elbowing him in the stomach with an AP gap like that will dust him and even if we say it wouldn't, it would litteraly make his chest explode, only leaving his head, arms and legs and sorry but Virgil isn't regenerating from that, especialy since Goku almost always follow that move with a Kamehameha if his opponent isn't finished already.

So even if we ignore what Gohan did with the Cell Jrs, the regen isn't usefull here.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

It was like, if you cut a knife with butter. If Goku was fighting someone comparable to him, then the person would get knocked back by his punch. But since Vergil's so much weaker than him, a punch would hit him and just keep going through, like how Gohan's attacks just rip the Juniors into halves.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

It wouldn't make his chest explode.

Cell Jr's are a special case.Vergil will just teleport and heal instantly.

And I don't think it is wise to rush Vergil,he can cut through Goku like nothing and just JC him with AOE attack.

 

[Paul_Frank]

A ki blast would kill vergil since literally any time ki blasts hit something they explode

 

[Schnee_One]

<It would make his chest explode

Mid Regen kinda covers your chest exploding

For god sakes a much weaker Vergil who was low on Stamina got cut in half and survived, so I wonder where leaving Vergil with his head arms and legs would kill him when that didn't kill him before when he was in a much weaker state.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

This is incolclusive.

Both can one shot each other.

 

[Schnee_One]

^Mostly Agreed

 

[Dragomer]

It wouldn't make his chest explode.
Cell Jr's are a special case.Vergil will just teleport and heal instantly.

And I don't think it is wise to rush Vergil,he can cut through Goku like nothing and just JC him with AOE attack.

It totaly would, and going by Gohan vs Cell Jr, it would bisect him and destroy his body beyond even Cell's regen capacity, which are way beyond Virgil's.

They are not, Gohan litteraly just punched them and Virgil can't regenerate from that and if we say he can and he teleport to heal, Goku can just follow with his own and finished the job against a Virgil that probably lack half his body, probably with an already prepped Ki blast too.

It's actualy pretty wise, JC are almost impossible to land in CQC and if your opponent is moving around constantly, which Goku would be and it's not like Virgil would instantly know that only his spatial manipulation can do anything to Goku and start using it constantly from the start.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

No it wouldn't.

Exhausted Vergil regenerates waaay faster than Cell.And I said he can Teleport at will.

 

[Paul_Frank]

No it wouldn't.
Exhausted Vergil regenerates waaay faster than Cell.And I said he can Teleport at will.

Regenerationn (Likely Low-High; should have the same Regenerationn capabilities as Cell)

vs

Regenerationn (Mid, comparable to Dante, who can walk off shots to the head, and instantly regenerated from disembowelment while being significantly exhausted),

Yeah no cell's is better

Goku has experience against teleporting opponents

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Something like a kick would just cut him in half.

 

[Dragomer]

No it wouldn't.
Exhausted Vergil regenerates waaay faster than Cell.And I said he can Teleport at will.

Yes it would.

No, he has mid regen, Cell Jrs had low-hight regen at the very least, if you disagree, make a CRT.

Goku can TP at will too.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Goku via sheer AP. Vergil's teleportation is countered by Goku's own. Goku holds every other category easily. Vergil's attack still needs to connect to do damage. He can also be disarmed. Goku on the other hand hits him and gg.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@Paul

I didn't say Vergil's Regenerationn is better,I said it is faster a lot.

@Cal

Vergil's teleportation is countered by Goku's ow

Vergil doesn't need hand gestures or something like that to teleport and Goku isn't the guy who would just teleport right after Vergil while they still on one ground.

Vergil's attack still needs to connect to do damage

And Goku's doesn't?

Goku on the other hand hits him and gg.

What about Vergil cutting him?Is that not an option?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Vergil's teleportation is countered by Goku's ow

Vergil doesn't need hand gestures or something like that to teleport and Goku isn't the guy who would just teleport right after Vergil while they still on one ground.

[[1]] Neither does Goku.

 

[Dragomer]

First nothing prove that, second it doesn't matter if it's faster if it's a wound Virgil can't regen from, regen from being disemboweled doesn't mean you can regen from being bisected.

And no, Goku doesn't need to have his attack even connect to do damage, he could throw a ki blast next to Virgil and the shockwave would kill him or at least do heavy damage.

and Goku would totaly teleport after Virgil to follow up on his attack, he has no reason to not do it and Goku can use IT in combat without hand gesture, he does it in DBS Broly.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

https://youtu.be/yehYi362l5k?t=14

Goku could just teleport to Vergil mid attack and yeet him.

 

[AKM sama]

Question: Apart from plain dodging, can't Vergil's sword be blocked from the sides without having to fear about getting cut?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

>Goku

>Teleporting mid attack at the start of the match.

Mhhhhm.

 

[Paul_Frank]

As I said earlier in this thread

This key of Goku didn't go easy or hold back

The only time he "held back" was to keep his stamina since blue takes a bunch and he was half dead

 

[DragonEmperor23]

>Goku

>Teleporting mid attack at the start of the match.

Mhhhhm.

I never said that's what he would start with.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

And no, Goku doesn't need to have his attack even connect to do damage, he could throw a ki blast next to Virgil and the shockwave would kill him or at least do heavy damage.

Vergil can teleport from the blast radius and normal KI blasts don't do any shockwaves.

I just find it strange that people consider the possibily of Goku punching Vergil but not Vergil cutting Goku.

I voted Inconclusive and don't want to argue anymore,ignore me.

 

[Dragomer]

Question: Apart from plain dodging, can't Vergil's sword be blocked from the sides without having to fear about getting cut?

No one ever tried so we don't have feat either so i guesse we could assume that Yamato is indeed vulnerable to the hold 'bare handed blade block' like most sword with no feat for or against it.

Also Lady managed to block Yamato with her rocket launcher but Virgil was weakened so even if we said he could regenerate or survive a wound from Goku's attack, he'd lose his only way to hurt Goku since that seems to indicate that Yamato can't use it's special stuff if Virgil is too weakened.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I don't think I've seen anything disproving Vergil can just move around while uses the JC, meaning without assuming the pose, nor anything that Goku would evade an attack that appears right where he is while not knowing what to expect.

There's also what Schnee is arguing, but I'll leave that to him to argue for that option. But it's still an option.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Isn't the assumption that when a character has been shown to do something a certain way, that's the only way they can do it? Like, let's say Goku never IT'd without using his hands, then saying he would or can would be fallacious.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Considering Vergil can also use the technique without any posing and in the air, also without any posing, I would say it's entirely doable. Unless I am wrong Die sent some links above.

 

[Dragomer]

I don't think I've seen anything disproving Vergil can just move around while uses the JC, meaning without assuming the pose, nor anything that Goku would evade an attack that appears right where he is while not knowing what to expect.
There's also what Schnee is arguing, but I'll leave that to him to argue for that option. But it's still an option.

We didn't see anything proving it either and given that in gameplay it's impossible, it's quite obvious he can't.

The attack appear after Virgil clearly attack, Goku would have an easier time dodging an attack with a delay than an attack with no delay and it's not like it's the first time Goku face an attack he can't see until it reach him, almost all Kiai are litteraly that.

Goku would see a guy with a sword slashing in his direction and wouldn't get out of the way ? not believing that one.

 

[Schnee_One]

I don't see why it would be fallacious at all.

In fact I wanted to make a thread on this a while ago, because there's zero rule that we assume that because a person's actions are contradicted, we assume it's the best course

Is there a rule for this?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Question: Apart from plain dodging, can't Vergil's sword be blocked from the sides without having to fear about getting cut?

That could work.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Considering Vergil can also use the technique without any posing and in the air, also without any posing, I would say it's entirely doable. Unless I am wrong Die sent some links above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MPPLrePwBU&feature=youtu.be&t=4924

This was the only link and it's nothing like the other Judgement Cuts Vergil does where it's a giant sphere of cutting after he poses.