Vergil vs Goku

[Dienomite22]

@TheRustyOne

SBA is willing to kill, not want or bloodlust to kill

 

[Ogbunabali]

SBA means that Goku wants to kill Vergil, also the OP has Goku starting out in his strongest 3-A form. The fight ends the moment it begins because Goku has no idea how strong Vergil is, and will want to kill him.

They are still in character, Goku doesn't suddenly do ooc things, and yes he does he can see power levels.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Except Dante in DMC2/5 does.

https://youtu.be/pRZW5TdAsug?t=209

https://youtu.be/0I2DFguEgDQ?t=307

No, he only uses DT against Urizen after Urizen was about to yeet Nero. Every other moment of that fight, mainly the beginning, was him in base form.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Not starting off with transforming into your strongest form isn't a sign of you holding back in your base form.

^^^

 

[Ogbunabali]

Yeah because he was getting stomped.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah because he was getting stomped.

Him getting stomped doesn't change that he did not start with DT.

 

[Ogbunabali]

He does. And it's not like that's important here, this is Vergil not Dante.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

He does. And it's not like that's important here, this is Vergil not Dante.

Okay, before I talk about that. Are what happens in the boss fight itself considered game mechanics or are only the cutscenes canon?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

He does.

I just showed you an example of him not doing that. I didn't bring Dante up because of the fighters, I did it to give an example of someone not transforming into their strongest form at the beginning but still trying to fight in base form without holding back in base form.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Somewhere in between I would imagine. Like in DMC3 first fight with Vergil when you fight him in game he was pretty chill, walking and all, but in the cutscene we see that it wasn't actually a nonchalant fight for him and they were on pretty equal footing having a hard fight.

And this is SDT, so yes he does.

 

[Dienomite22]

Yea, Dante uses SDT even for meaningless things like to traveling,he uses it when going from the bottem of the Qliphoth to Nico's van, Going from Urizen's chair to Nico's car and going to the demon world.The guy loves the form.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I feel like there's a miscommunication here. When I said Dante did not turn into his strongest form, I was talking about him in that first encounter against Urizen, I was not referring to this fight. Yes, since he said strongest 3-A forms, Vergil would be in SDT in this fight, I wasn't disagreeing with that.

 

[Schnee_One]

Either Goku one shots or Vergil one shots

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Anyways, Vergil is one to go for the kill ASAP while Goku is Goku.

Vergil slices Goku and calls it a day.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Goku attacks once and Vergil dies. Seriously, you guys are downplaying Goku's ability to fight way too much. What happens if Goku just dodges the slice?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

In a speed equalized match, where the judgement cut appears instantaneously where the target is.

 

[Dienomite22]

Goku attacks once and Vergil dies. Seriously, you guys are downplaying Goku's ability to fight way too much. What happens if Goku just dodges the slice?

Don't think it's really downplay, Vergil plays keep away and spams judgement cuts while his doppleganger attacks, while Goku mostly focus on close combat most of the time.Vergil will be able to dodge Goku's obvious ki attacks and what not while Goku will have trouble dodging something like judgement cuts which are omnidirectional and teleports to the enemy, not even counting Vergil spamming it, Summond Swords his doppleganger which can do what he can.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Can you give an example of Vergil's first move being Judgement Cut? Also, Goku can just punch him while he's charging it up.

 

[Dienomite22]

@DragonEmperor23

His constant spamming of judgement cut in gameplay,Dante mimicing the attack in DMC4 showing that he is familar with Vergil's fighting style and his judgement cuts, Judgement cuts being the sword's most notable attribute.Also, Vergil doesn't charge up judgement cuts, it's instant

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

The only cutscene where he uses that is here: https://youtu.be/2MPPLrePwBU?t=4924

Anyways, it doesnt matter. One hit with the sword and Goku is done for.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Well, before I respond to that, that's not what was said before. It was just "Vergil teleports and slices gg" without any elaboration. As for that keepaway, Goku just oneshots any doppelgängers with ease before teleporting to Vergil and doing the same to him. Goku's fought people with millions of years of experience, he's going to be able to hit Vergil with his attacks. Vergil teleporting to Goku would just make it easier for him to get punched.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Anyways, it doesnt matter. One hit with the sword and Goku is done for.

Not really, it's not a "you touch the sword and you die instantly" weapon, it's a sword that negates durability. Goku could dodge and get a cut on his cheek and not instantly die.

 

[Dienomite22]

@DragonEmperor23

Judgement cuts are ranged attacks, Vergil mainly operates from range.The dopplegangers are also able to do everything Vergil can including Judgement cut, the move that can oneshot Goku.Goku's experience is irrelevent here, he hasn't faced someone like Vergil

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Honestly, I don't know why this match is being debated when SSR Goku Black, who is hundreds of times weaker than this Goku, got closed for an AP stomp when he was against Dante who is Vergil's equal physically.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Judgement cuts are ranged attacks, Vergil mainly operates from range.The dopplegangers are also able to do everything Vergil can including Judgement cut, the move that can oneshot Goku.Goku's experience is irrelevent here, he hasn't faced someone like Vergil

Then Goku just teleports to him or Kamehameha's him. Experience does matter, Skill is a very important factor in fights, especially when Vergil is a swordsman.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

In a speed equalized match, where the judgement cut appears instantaneously where the target is.

Speed equal means that the character's relative speed is equal. Moves that require charge do not automatically lose it just because the opponent's moves don't.

 

[Dienomite22]

@DragonEmperor23

Because Vergil isn't Dante and his go to weapon and attacks can one shot Goku.If Dante was given Yamato he could've won with high diff.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

@DragonEmperor23

Because Vergil isn't Dante and his go to weapon and attacks can one shot Goku.If Dante was given Yamato he could've won with high diff.

But in that thread, Dante was being argued to start off with his insta kill durability negating hax. So what's the difference?

 

[Dienomite22]

Then Goku just teleports to him or Kamehameha's him. Experience does matter, Skill is a very important factor in fights, especially when Vergil is a swordsman.

Not gonna work, Vergil isn't stupid to wait for Goku to charge kamehameha or teleport.Experience doesn't matter here unless you want to point out an instance where Goku fought someone like Vergil.

 

[Dienomite22]

Speed equal means that the character's relative speed is equal. Moves that require charge do not automatically lose it just because the opponent's moves don't.

Doesn't matter Judgement cut is practically instant

 

[Dienomite22]

But in that thread, Dante was being argued to start off with his insta kill durability negating hax. So what's the difference?

State of mind of the character and forgetting to acknowlege that characters of similar versus get a pass on their go to hax, like Bayo or Kratos despite them never using it during the events of their respective games.(Think Bayo's optional weapons and Kratos's hades claws being used as a lol win button in vs match ups)

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Not really. Vergil gets into position and then stays there for a bit before using it. An opening for an attack from Goku.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

@DragonEmperor23
Because Vergil isn't Dante and his go to weapon and attacks can one shot Goku.If Dante was given Yamato he could've won with high diff.

That moment when a weaker version of yourself can stomp the guy who stomped a stronger you :v

 

[DragonEmperor23]

" Not gonna work, Vergil isn't stupid to wait for Goku to charge kamehameha or teleport.Experience doesn't matter here unless you want to point out an instance where Goku fought someone like Vergil."

What do you mean wait for Goku to teleport? There's no charge, he does just it. He can teleport with a Kamehameha already ready too. I'm saying experience is what let's Goku dodge Vergil's slices, which are not all Judgement Cut.

 

[Dienomite22]

What do you mean wait for Goku to teleport? There's no charge, he does just it. He can teleport with a Kamehameha already ready too. I'm saying experience is what let's Goku dodge Vergil's slices, which are not all Judgement Cut.

Vergil isn't stupid enough to not react to his opponent teleporting or charge an obvious blue ball.Not all of Vergil's attacks are judgement cuts but judgement cuts are his go to especially when willing to kill and Goku has never had any experience with Judgement cuts or anything similiar so once that pops off he's done.The stance and word's Vergil's shout when doing JC aren't required and it's just an unsheathing and sheathing motion so it's not like Goku would expect an attack from it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCZ-BVKgszw You can see from this he doesn't have to step back and get into a certain position in order to execute a JC.

 

[Laughing_Manson]

Voting for Vergil. Whenever Goku's aware of a power gap, he starts off with blocking strikes as oppose to dodging or attacking. For obvious reasons, it'd be a quick victory for Vergil.

 

[Dragomer]

Voting for Vergil. Whenever Goku's aware of a power gap, he starts off with blocking strikes as oppose to dodging or attacking. For obvious reasons, it'd be a quick victory for Vergil.

Goku litteraly never did that, him dodging or tanking was always dependent on the situation and weather he effectively could do either, he also never tanked an attack he had never seen before on purpose, it was never based on if he feel there is a power gap or not, if anything Goku will blitz and one shot if he feel there is too much of a gap or the opponent leave himself too open.

Hell, even in DBS Broly, you see Goku dodging everything he can even while having a pretty big power advantage at times or while Vegeta was fighting.

If you want someone who use tanking as their 'to go' reaction, it would be Freezer and it's because he can afford it since even bisection won't kill him.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Voting for Vergil. Whenever Goku's aware of a power gap, he starts off with blocking strikes as oppose to dodging or attacking. For obvious reasons, it'd be a quick victory for Vergil.

That reasoning makes no sense

Goku doesn't start off by blocking if someone is stronger. He literally attacks first still.

Also he has the ap advantage here so that is irrelevant

 

[Dragomer]

What do you mean wait for Goku to teleport? There's no charge, he does just it. He can teleport with a Kamehameha already ready too. I'm saying experience is what let's Goku dodge Vergil's slices, which are not all Judgement Cut.

Vergil isn't stupid enough to not react to his opponent teleporting or charge an obvious blue ball.Not all of Vergil's attacks are judgement cuts but judgement cuts are his go to especially when willing to kill and Goku has never had any experience with Judgement cuts or anything similiar so once that pops off he's done.The stance and word's Vergil's shout when doing JC aren't required and it's just an unsheathing and sheathing motion so it's not like Goku would expect an attack from it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCZ-BVKgszw You can see from this he doesn't have to step back and get into a certain position in order to execute a JC.

Litteraly all your video show is him doing exactly what you are saying he doesn't have to do while the player is trying to abuse cancels to get the move out faster.

 

[Dienomite22]

@Dragomer

That's not abusing cancels, it's literally an intended mechanic with Vergil. Vergil doesn't have to stop and get into a certain position for a couple of seconds to do JC.He can do it instantly, on ground or in the air.