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Vegeta hasn't ever used Dirty Fireworks since the Namek Saga though, I see no reason why he'd immediately do that here.
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Vegeta fights a blonde woman... again (7-12-1).
- Thread starter Omegas03
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Ummm...no?
Vegeta has done this all of once, maybe twice. It's not in character in that case. I'm fairly certain he hasn't used this since the Frieza saga. If it was that in character the he would've used it on Android 19. As well as Semi-Perfect Cell (before he found out that Cell could get stronger). Yet he doesn't do this in either of those cases. He also doesn't do this to Zarbon, or Jeice during that same arc. Characters in DBZ rarely use telekinesis (outside of Guildo and the occasional Frieza), so claiming that it's in character subtracts from the argument of Vegeta winning.
His wins cons really seem to be just beating her up since Ki won't work. But if she grabs him, can he escape? Is his LS also unknown?
Vegeta has done this all of once, maybe twice. It's not in character in that case. I'm fairly certain he hasn't used this since the Frieza saga. If it was that in character the he would've used it on Android 19. As well as Semi-Perfect Cell (before he found out that Cell could get stronger). Yet he doesn't do this in either of those cases. He also doesn't do this to Zarbon, or Jeice during that same arc. Characters in DBZ rarely use telekinesis (outside of Guildo and the occasional Frieza), so claiming that it's in character subtracts from the argument of Vegeta winning.
His wins cons really seem to be just beating her up since Ki won't work. But if she grabs him, can he escape? Is his LS also unknown?
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Against Pui Pui, he grabbed him and then killed him with a ki blast.
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After dodging all of his attacks and humiliating him a bit. Honestly I see this happening here as well.LordTracer said:
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I just checked their lifting strengths. Vegeta is Class M while Ms. Marvel is class Z.
So, if she grabs him, he doesn't have the LS to escape. She can also bombard him from afar since he can't properly counter/close the distance without his ki attacks being absorbed.
Vegeta's win cons seem to be closing the distance and beating her down with superior skill and AP.
Ms. Marvel's wins cons seem to be bombarding him from afar (since she steals his range advantage with her absorption) and grabbing him to drain his energy.
I'd still like to wait for a Marvel supporter to answer the questions concerning her explosion manip and vibration manip.
And thank you to whomever clarified that her gravity manip is only in her binary form.
So, if she grabs him, he doesn't have the LS to escape. She can also bombard him from afar since he can't properly counter/close the distance without his ki attacks being absorbed.
Vegeta's win cons seem to be closing the distance and beating her down with superior skill and AP.
Ms. Marvel's wins cons seem to be bombarding him from afar (since she steals his range advantage with her absorption) and grabbing him to drain his energy.
I'd still like to wait for a Marvel supporter to answer the questions concerning her explosion manip and vibration manip.
And thank you to whomever clarified that her gravity manip is only in her binary form.
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Ms Marvel isn't grabbing Vegeta IMO, C19 tried that with a smaller power gap and that ended with Vegeta breaking his arms and decapitating him.
And bombarding Vegeta from afar would be stailing at best, with a 2x different, Vegeta can just put up a barrier and shill or counter blast her attack to avoid any damages.
And bombarding Vegeta from afar would be stailing at best, with a 2x different, Vegeta can just put up a barrier and shill or counter blast her attack to avoid any damages.
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Bombarding him with Energy blasts can be countered by Ki blasts actually since her absorption doesn't work from a distance. And grabbing him won't be as easy as some of you are making it seem tbh.
Also her energy attacks will have next to no effect considering how much weaker she is lol
Also her energy attacks will have next to no effect considering how much weaker she is lol
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Hence, he'll remember that he can use telekinesis lol.Nitro90 said:
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2x weaker is not that big a gap. Like, at all. Even irl, one can seriously harm someone twice as strong as them.
But, once again, AP has little to do with LS. No, Vegeta cannot break her arms with such inferior LS. It would be impossible for him to escape her grip.
Also, Vegeta tends to locks hands/fists with his opponents at times. He did so with Goku, Android 18 (iirc), and Android 19. I'm not sure why we're acting like it's so difficult to do. He throws a punch, she catches it. She certainly has enough skill to do at least that.
Vegeta using his telekinesis is almost completely OOC at this point. It's not how he usually finishes opponents he has a prolonged fight against.
But, once again, AP has little to do with LS. No, Vegeta cannot break her arms with such inferior LS. It would be impossible for him to escape her grip.
Also, Vegeta tends to locks hands/fists with his opponents at times. He did so with Goku, Android 18 (iirc), and Android 19. I'm not sure why we're acting like it's so difficult to do. He throws a punch, she catches it. She certainly has enough skill to do at least that.
Vegeta using his telekinesis is almost completely OOC at this point. It's not how he usually finishes opponents he has a prolonged fight against.
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In Dragon Ball 1.2 power level gap was enough to make Cui a fodder and on this wiki we consider at 7 time gap to be one shot.
No, lifting strength has nothing to do with breaking someone's arm, Vegeta can litteraly just squeeze her arms to break them, it would be very easy to escape and her grappling him is once again very unlikely, C19 tried and that didn't end well.
As if Vegeta doesn't have the skill to punch an opening instead of a somewhere his opponents can counter grab him, that's like martial art 101.
TBF, that's because all of his opponents resist it if they are worth fighting, all the way since Nappa.
No, lifting strength has nothing to do with breaking someone's arm, Vegeta can litteraly just squeeze her arms to break them, it would be very easy to escape and her grappling him is once again very unlikely, C19 tried and that didn't end well.
As if Vegeta doesn't have the skill to punch an opening instead of a somewhere his opponents can counter grab him, that's like martial art 101.
TBF, that's because all of his opponents resist it if they are worth fighting, all the way since Nappa.
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This isn't Dragon ball, however. Indeed, on the wiki 7.5x is enough to one shot. 2x is over three times less than that. Meaning they can plenty hurt each other, Vegeta simply has an easier time about it.
Vegeta can break her arms if given the opportunity, sure (But that would apply even if their AP was the same). I'm specifically talking about if she grabs him. Either his wrists or his fist. He can't break out of her grip due to his inferior LS. So he can't maneuver himself into a position to break her arm. Android 19's LS is far inferior to Ms. Marvel's. That's the key here.
To be fair, they both have martial arts listed on their profile. Vegeta is likely more skilled, granted, but it's not like she has absolutely no skill. And she likely has experience fighting more varied opponents. Vegeta has also been grabbed by less skilled opponents before. I.E, Android 19.
That's fair. All the more reason why it would be OOC for him here. Thank you for clarifying that.
Vegeta can break her arms if given the opportunity, sure (But that would apply even if their AP was the same). I'm specifically talking about if she grabs him. Either his wrists or his fist. He can't break out of her grip due to his inferior LS. So he can't maneuver himself into a position to break her arm. Android 19's LS is far inferior to Ms. Marvel's. That's the key here.
To be fair, they both have martial arts listed on their profile. Vegeta is likely more skilled, granted, but it's not like she has absolutely no skill. And she likely has experience fighting more varied opponents. Vegeta has also been grabbed by less skilled opponents before. I.E, Android 19.
That's fair. All the more reason why it would be OOC for him here. Thank you for clarifying that.
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In Marvel two characters with the same strength can break each other's arms casualy, both Vers are close on that.
He can do it easily, with a 2 to 5 gap when he did it against someone with a lesser gap.
Her grabbing him is unlikely once again and breaking the arm if she does is perfectly viable.
LS doesn't matter if the arm is broken or cut off with a blast TBH, also grip strength and LS aren't the same.
Doesn't matter, a debutant wouldn't make a mistake like that so a master won't either, Ms Marvel also having martial art just mean she won't make that mistake either.
Vegeta faked being grabbed to put himself in a position to break both his arms and rip off his head.
He can do it easily, with a 2 to 5 gap when he did it against someone with a lesser gap.
Her grabbing him is unlikely once again and breaking the arm if she does is perfectly viable.
LS doesn't matter if the arm is broken or cut off with a blast TBH, also grip strength and LS aren't the same.
Doesn't matter, a debutant wouldn't make a mistake like that so a master won't either, Ms Marvel also having martial art just mean she won't make that mistake either.
Vegeta faked being grabbed to put himself in a position to break both his arms and rip off his head.
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You mixed it up. He ripped off his arms and broke his head. Well...everything but the head lol.
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Yes. I do agree with that. Though, the argument was never that Vegeta lacks the capacity to break Ms. Marvel's arms. It's whether or not he'll be able to during the fight. Which seems rather unlikely.
Um, no. Ms. Marvel does not have a lesser grip than Android 19. Based on their profiles, Vegeta is Class M. Ms. Marvel is class Z. Android 19 is at most class M. Vegeta has not broken out of the grip of someone with class Z LS. That part is incorrect.
Cut off with a ki blast? The very same ki blasts that she can absorb? Lol. Additionally, grip strength is based off of LS. Calculations based upon LS have even been made based upon a character gripping and then crushing something. See Izuku Midoriya for an example of such.
For Vegeta to not make that mistake, he surely does seem to end up clasping hands with his opponents. As seen with both Goku and Android 19 at least. I'm very sure there are more examples. Likely with Android 18 and Semi-Perfect Cell.
That's a good martial arts maneuver from Vegeta (I mean that sincerely), but Ms. Marvel is also a martial artist and experienced fighter. I'm not sure whether she'd fall for the same thing. Additionally, I'm sure that she could fly while holding Vegeta to maneuver herself out of any such position. And her superior LS means that she has control if she grabs him.
Um, no. Ms. Marvel does not have a lesser grip than Android 19. Based on their profiles, Vegeta is Class M. Ms. Marvel is class Z. Android 19 is at most class M. Vegeta has not broken out of the grip of someone with class Z LS. That part is incorrect.
Cut off with a ki blast? The very same ki blasts that she can absorb? Lol. Additionally, grip strength is based off of LS. Calculations based upon LS have even been made based upon a character gripping and then crushing something. See Izuku Midoriya for an example of such.
For Vegeta to not make that mistake, he surely does seem to end up clasping hands with his opponents. As seen with both Goku and Android 19 at least. I'm very sure there are more examples. Likely with Android 18 and Semi-Perfect Cell.
That's a good martial arts maneuver from Vegeta (I mean that sincerely), but Ms. Marvel is also a martial artist and experienced fighter. I'm not sure whether she'd fall for the same thing. Additionally, I'm sure that she could fly while holding Vegeta to maneuver herself out of any such position. And her superior LS means that she has control if she grabs him.
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I agree with Dragomer personally. Vegeta is much more skilled than Carol imo. And he got caught by C19 intentionally as well lol.
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@Uchiha
I think you all have valid points. While I see Carol winning through her energy drainage ability, I also think Vegeta general beating her down with better skill and a 2x AP advantage is also viable.
I'm fairly certain we just agree to disagree here. Unless a Carol supporter comes in and says that she can freeze time or warp space, lol.
I think you all have valid points. While I see Carol winning through her energy drainage ability, I also think Vegeta general beating her down with better skill and a 2x AP advantage is also viable.
I'm fairly certain we just agree to disagree here. Unless a Carol supporter comes in and says that she can freeze time or warp space, lol.
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It seems very likely to me, he already did it in canon with a lesser gap while less experienced and skilled.
I never said she did, i said LS has nothing to do with grip strength and it doesn't protect your arm from being broken.
She can't absorb energy like that, she's been hit by energy attack in such situation multiple time, she isn't like Moro where energy everywhere get absorbed no matter what.
Because those are contest of strength and his opponents don't leave openings, here he'd sense the AP gap, why would he bother to check her like that ?
I mean C19 fell for it despite having years worth of data treated by a super computer who can independently develop something as broken as Cell and handle reconstructing C17 and C18 on a molecular level from normal humans to cyborgs stronger than Freezer.
No, her grabbing him, which once again is unlikely as all hell probably end up with Vegeta mule kicking her in the chin and breaking her neck / sending her head flying almost instantly.
Also Ms Marvel's martial expertise isn't in grappling, she isn't Zangief.
I never said she did, i said LS has nothing to do with grip strength and it doesn't protect your arm from being broken.
She can't absorb energy like that, she's been hit by energy attack in such situation multiple time, she isn't like Moro where energy everywhere get absorbed no matter what.
Because those are contest of strength and his opponents don't leave openings, here he'd sense the AP gap, why would he bother to check her like that ?
I mean C19 fell for it despite having years worth of data treated by a super computer who can independently develop something as broken as Cell and handle reconstructing C17 and C18 on a molecular level from normal humans to cyborgs stronger than Freezer.
No, her grabbing him, which once again is unlikely as all hell probably end up with Vegeta mule kicking her in the chin and breaking her neck / sending her head flying almost instantly.
Also Ms Marvel's martial expertise isn't in grappling, she isn't Zangief.
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@Dragomer
Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree.
Also, is anyone interested in taking a look at some matches I've made? I'm not sure whether or not you'll be familiar with the characters. But hopefully they prove interesting, since most of them have arguments present already.
Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree.
Also, is anyone interested in taking a look at some matches I've made? I'm not sure whether or not you'll be familiar with the characters. But hopefully they prove interesting, since most of them have arguments present already.
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What are the questions regarding Carol and her abilities?
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@Peter
I wanted clarification on the extent of her energy absorption. As well as the applications of the other abilities available to her outside of binary form. Such as her explosion manip and vibration manip.
I wanted clarification on the extent of her energy absorption. As well as the applications of the other abilities available to her outside of binary form. Such as her explosion manip and vibration manip.
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Also, question for the dbz supporters.
On Vegeta's profile, it lists that he has resistance to cold, radiation, and mind maip, yet the justification is only for the mind manip. I recall that Goku got resistance to cold and radiation manip through being in outer space once he went SSG.
4-B vegeta is before he gets SSB, right? So where does his resistance to the cold and radiation come from?
On Vegeta's profile, it lists that he has resistance to cold, radiation, and mind maip, yet the justification is only for the mind manip. I recall that Goku got resistance to cold and radiation manip through being in outer space once he went SSG.
4-B vegeta is before he gets SSB, right? So where does his resistance to the cold and radiation come from?
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Ah. I will do so shortly.
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Also I want to clarify something about Vegeta's character. He absolutely doesn't bother with fodder, unlike Goku sometimes. He's far more ruthless, and the only exceptions are when he's facing an equal/superior fighter, facing someone who has potential(Cabbe), someone he wishes to humiliate(Freeza/Cell). He has absolutely no reason to hold back or mess around here. He'll just.... Kill her.
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@Uchiha
Ah, gotcha. Thank you.
Ah, gotcha. Thank you.
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Some of her greatest showings of energy absorption is when she absorbs gamma-radiation from the Abominatio, absorbs a lot of energy from Blue Marvel and she was able to drain count Nefaria into unconsciousness
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The Blue Marvel scan, to me, insinuates that her absorption has a limit. Because she said "start at half and ram it up from there" and "I'll tell you if it's too much".
Could someone clear that up?
Could someone clear that up?
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The Abomination scan implies that she has a limit as well.
I guess the question is: What exactly is the upper most limit of the ability or is it ambiguous ?
I guess the question is: What exactly is the upper most limit of the ability or is it ambiguous ?
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If her limit was Blue Marvel, that would put her limit at 1 MegaFoe iirc.
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If that's the case then SS2 would overwhelm her because he's 1.6 MegaFoe. Honestly if Vegeta messes around too much I can see this working, but Normally it seems like he has a couple of options to bypass the absorption ability. Either by not getting caught via skill or overpowering her with SS2. It's close but I don't see it as an unwinable situation for Vegeta imo.
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