Upgrade to Power of the Verse - Maou Gakuin

[BlackeJan]

Imagine only watching the anime then saying stuff like this. Anyone who's read up to Volume 10 of the WN knows Misha and Sasha are actually powerful... Please don't say stuff like this if you only watched the anime.

Honestly does it matter if I read the novel or not? what im reading is from what YOU have written meaning everything thats in the novel is from what you've seen. Your logic (im not trying to be rude) for power scaling doesn't make a lick of sense. You are pretty much saying that Misha and Sasha are comparable to Lay who is comparable to Anos of all people. Here let me give you an example

My PL: 5
You and friends: 1
Need to have a PL of 3 to hurt me

Your Logic:
"Even though me and my friends have a PL of 1 and we need a PL of 3 to harm the man with PL of 5, if we work together then we can harm the man with PL of 5"

Now tell me does that make any sense?

 

[imZer0Null]

Once again the arguments I receive are so bland. People disagree but then they don't give actual good reasons or even other suggestions...

1. Mid tiers are in no way scaled to Anos with his power regained. I haven't said that even once.
2. No matter what type of precognition you have, it won't upgrade your attack potency. The fact remains that the soldiers were able to harm Lay. How don't you understand that?! That's why they get likely 5-A, and not a solid 5-A.

Sorry if I'm coming off as rude. While I won't deny that I'm probably ignoring some stuff, all the counter arguments I've received don't make any sense, and it's honestly frustrating.

 

[imZer0Null]

Honestly does it matter if I read the novel or not? what im reading is from what YOU have written meaning everything thats in the novel is from what you've seen. Your logic (im not trying to be rude) for power scaling doesn't make a lick of sense. You are pretty much saying that Misha and Sasha are comparable to Lay who is comparable to Anos of all people. Here let me give you an example

My PL: 5
You and friends: 1
Need to have a PL of 3 to hurt me

Your Logic:
"Even though me and my friends have a PL of 1 and we need a PL of 3 to harm the man with PL of 5, if we work together then we can harm the man with PL of 5"

Now tell me does that make any sense?

No. Me and my friends can harm PL 3. PL 3 can harm PL 5. That makes it likely me and my friends can harm PL 5...

And once again it seems like you think Misha and Sasha are weak... If you've read the novel, you'd no doubt know that Misha and Sasha are powerful enough to be likely 5-A.

 

[AncientKing95]

Honestly does it matter if I read the novel or not? what im reading is from what YOU have written meaning everything thats in the novel is from what you've seen. Your logic (im not trying to be rude) for power scaling doesn't make a lick of sense. You are pretty much saying that Misha and Sasha are comparable to Lay who is comparable to Anos of all people. Here let me give you an example

My PL: 5
You and friends: 1
Need to have a PL of 3 to hurt me

Your Logic:
"Even though me and my friends have a PL of 1 and we need a PL of 3 to harm the man with PL of 5, if we work together then we can harm the man with PL of 5"

Now tell me does that make any sense?

Uh, Misha and Sasha are comparable to Lay. And Lay Pre-Silver Sea(Arcs 1-10) is comparable to a suppressed Anos. There are a good amount of characters comparable to a suppressed Anos in this series. I don't see why that's suprising.

 

[Antvasima]

Null seems to make some good points to me, but I am much less qualified than @Celestial_Pegasus and @Ionliosite to evaluate this.

 

[BlackeJan]

No. Me and my friends can harm PL 3. PL 3 can harm PL 5. That makes it likely me and my friends can harm PL 5...

And once again it seems like you think Misha and Sasha are weak... If you've read the novel, you'd no doubt know that Misha and Sasha are powerful enough to be likely 5-A.

You legit changed the example to your own fitting to make yourself seem right....so of course you didn't understand what ive meant....I never thought they were weak, in the anime they made it quite obvious how strong were they, but to have them to be a Likely by the mere fact that they should scale to enemies who got no dif by Lay...you seriously dont see how wrong that is

Null seems to make some good points to me, but I am much less qualified than @Celestial_Pegasus and @Ionliosite to evaluate this.

Again, Misha/Sasha scaling to characters who got utterly destroyed by Lay and the only reason Lay had a hard time wasnt by quality but quantity (with hax).

how does 2 soldiers = the power of 4 soldiers? that seriously doesn't make sense

 

[imZer0Null]

You legit changed the example to your own fitting to make yourself seem right....so of course you didn't understand what ive meant....I never thought they were weak, in the anime they made it quite obvious how strong were they, but to have them to be a Likely by the mere fact that they should scale to enemies who got no dif by Lay...you seriously dont see how wrong that is

Again, Misha/Sasha scaling to characters who got utterly destroyed by Lay and the only reason Lay had a hard time wasnt by quality but quantity (with hax).

how does 2 soldiers =. the power of 4? that seriously doesn't make sense

No. I legit used your example's structure, and your example was also blatantly wrong. Please go read up on attack potency and durability before continuing your argument.

The likely 5-A is because of a suggestion made by Celestial. If you actually read the posts above this, you'll see good reasons for it.

 

[BlackeJan]

No. I legit used your example's structure, and your example was also blatantly wrong. Please go read up on attack potency and durability before continuing your argument.

The likely 5-A is because of a suggestion made by Celestial. If you actually read the posts above this, you'll see good reasons for it.

No my example was legit an example which you clearly didn't understand. Your argument makes no sense by the mere fact that those same soldiers got UTTERLY defeated by Lay (literally meaning Lay no dif the crap out of) yet Misha/Sasha are comparable to those soldiers. Lets not forget you already admitted that you chose to ignore my points to make your argument seem right. Hell your power scaling surrounds how quantity determines power....nani the heck? in a 1v1 those soldiers get demolished yet when there are more of them then they suddenly get a power boost? these people aren't even fused together to make a stronger person....its individuality thats the key meaning again those soldiers had to gang up on someone just to have an edge

Again how does 2 soldiers = the power of 4?

Explain that question above please

 

[AncientKing95]

I've added in the rest of the relevant characters to the Maou Gakuin page on the VsBattles Wiki. Anybody mind adding actual profiles to these characters over time?

 

[imZer0Null]

o_0

5+ soldiers were able to fight Lay, but those 5+ soldiers didn't suddenly all grab the same sword and stab Lay... Each soldier on their own can harm Lay, but it takes 5+ to fight head to head. Reason for this is because Lay's swordsmanship was better than theirs and he was also faster than them.

2 soldiers =/= 4 soldiers... I've never said this before. A soldier has likely 5-A attack potency and durability, since they can harm Lay. Mid tiers are a solid 7-B, but get likely 5-A since they are also able to harm the soldiers...

Your logic is wrong since you keep thinking that the soldiers have more attack potency as a larger group, but they don't. Your misconception is most likely my fault, but I thought you at least knew that attack potency isn't the only thing that determines the outcome of a battle.
To clarify, Lay easily beat about 4 soldiers, but it wasn't an arm-wrestling match and strength wasn't the main focus of that battle. Despite everything, one soldier is capable of harming Lay, but one soldier can't keep up. That is also why they grouped up on him and later used the precognition. Not for an attack potency boost, but to be able to keep up with him.

 

[AncientKing95]

o_0

5+ soldiers were able to fight Lay, but those 5+ soldiers didn't suddenly all grab the same sword and stab Lay... Each soldier on their own can harm Lay, but it takes 5+ to fight head to head. Reason for this is because Lay's swordsmanship was better than theirs and he was also faster than them.

2 soldiers =/= 4 soldiers... I've never said this before. A soldier has likely 5-A attack potency and durability, since they can harm Lay. Mid tiers are a solid 7-B, but get likely 5-A since they are also able to harm the soldiers...

Your logic is wrong since you keep thinking that the soldiers have more attack potency as a larger group, but they don't. Your misconception is most likely my fault, but I thought you at least knew that attack potency isn't the only thing that determines the outcome of a battle.
To clarify, Lay easily beat about 4 soldiers, but it wasn't an arm-wrestling match and strength wasn't the main focus of that battle. Despite everything, one soldier is capable of harming Lay, but one soldier can't keep up. That is also why they grouped up on him and later used the precognition. Not for an attack potency boost, but to be able to keep up with him.

Just to clarify, when you're talking about these soldiers, are you referring to the dragonman/baby dragons?

 

[Ionliosite]

Null seems to make some good points to me

I think the opposite, BlackeJan is making the most sense between the two.

 

[BlackeJan]

o_0

5+ soldiers were able to fight Lay, but those 5+ soldiers didn't suddenly all grab the same sword and stab Lay... Each soldier on their own can harm Lay, but it takes 5+ to fight head to head. Reason for this is because Lay's swordsmanship was better than theirs and he was also faster than them.

2 soldiers =/= 4 soldiers... I've never said this before. A soldier has likely 5-A attack potency and durability, since they can harm Lay. Mid tiers are a solid 7-B, but get likely 5-A since they are also able to harm the soldiers...

Your logic is wrong since you keep thinking that the soldiers have more attack potency as a larger group, but they don't. Your misconception is most likely my fault, but I thought you at least knew that attack potency isn't the only thing that determines the outcome of a battle.
To clarify, Lay easily beat about 4 soldiers, but it wasn't an arm-wrestling match and strength wasn't the main focus of that battle. Despite everything, one soldier is capable of harming Lay, but one soldier can't keep up. That is also why they grouped up on him and later used the precognition. Not for an attack potency boost, but to be able to keep up with him.

1). You STILL dont get what I'm saying....how can those soldiers be comparable when they were BEATEN EASILY??? meaning that their durability, AP, and striking strength can't compare to Lay at all. Again that argument makes no sense. Are you sitting here telling me that just because I get a bunch of my friends to help me in a fight, I get a power boost from it? At this point you are deliberately ignoring my argument.

2). Yes you have said it before...."Also, 4 soldiers =/= 5-A, but 5+ soldiers = likely 5-A" do you seriously not see what is wrong with this argument? you are pretty much dividing (not literally) the 5+ soldiers to 2 soldiers for a rating and yes this was from one of your post above

3). My logic is not wrong, I'm literally countering what YOU have been arguing since this has been what you been saying. I know what Attack Potency is trust me, but you aren't seeing the problem here...A soldier could harm him yes but....Lay destroyed the crap of all the soldiers fighting him. I'm not trying to talk about speed or their hax but what im getting at is AP. This is literally like with Goku in DBS (he holds back to fight his enemies but if wanted too he can 1 shit them) Anos and Lay are gonna hold back on the people they are fighting unless they start to show promise, which is still the case on why Misha/Sasha are being compared to soldiers who got destroyed easily

I'm not trying to be rude or anything like that, please know that

 

[imZer0Null]

I'm also not trying to be rude, so sorry if it seems that way. I see we both can't seem to get what the other is trying to say...

1. I clearly made a mistake somewhere, but I never meant to say they get a power boosts because their friends help them. If I did say that, then it's 100% my fault. What I've been trying to say is that 1 soldier, on his own, can harm Lay. He is ONLY comparable to Lay in AP and durability. Lay is still faster and more skilled, and because of that, they had to group up on him and use precognition. 4 soldiers are EASILY BEATEN because they were slower and less skilled. 5+ soldiers were enough to group up on Lay and give him a fight. My main point is that they are comparable to Lay in AP and Durability, but nothing else, which results in 4 of them being easily beaten. If my friends help me in a fight, I won't get stronger, but I'll have the advantage in numbers, which is the same case for the soldiers.

2. I haven't once said 2 soldiers = 4 soldiers. What you quoted wasn't meant to mean that, but I'll admit that what I said doesn't make much sense, and it's my fault. I'm currently busy with a TON of stuff, so I too can make stupid mistakes. What I should've said and actually meant is that 4 soldiers couldn't keep up with Lay (5-A), but 5+ soldiers were. Once again, each individual soldier could harm Lay, but didn't get the chance since they were only comparable in AP and durability.

3. My entire point is that Lay beat the crap out of them, since one soldier is only comparable in AP and durability. There was no sign that Lay was holding back. If I could give a bit of context, the soldiers were basically fighting Lay to go sacrifice themselves, so they gave their all and didn't fear death. Out of respect Lay met them full on.

As I'm guessing you know, AP isn't the only factor in deciding a battle. I should've stated earlier that Lay EASILY BEAT them because he was faster and more skilled. 4 soldiers couldn't win, but not because their AP was too weak. 5+ could put up a fight since they outnumbered Lay and later used precognition.

**This entire thread is starting to give me headaches. My original suggestion, the one at the very start of this thread, was to only give the mid tiers 7-B. I then added likely 5-A based on what Celestial said. The likely 5-A made sense to me, since the mid tiers were able to fight against 2 soldiers. Those same soldiers, while not completely comparable to Lay, was still able to harm him, which should give them likely 5-A too. You see my point?

**Yea, I'm talking about the dragon knights as a whole. The fight I'm referring to is in the last few chapters of Volume 7. (I could be off by one volume.)

 

[Ian2296]

yeah, i agree with mid tiers being 7-B likely 5-A.

 

[Antvasima]

I think the opposite, BlackeJan is making the most sense between the two.

I defer to your knowledge regarding this topic then. However, you and @Celestial_Pegasus preferably need to reach some form of agreement.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

If it wasn't already obvious, i am neutral to happens here.

Like if the revisions are for something from the raws, i don't have any motivation to participate.

I am not invested in nor knowledgeable enough about the raws to provide any meaningful input.

That said, the op said Lay won due to speed and skill, so again i don't see why the mid tiers wouldn't fully scale, if Lay is 5-A, they are too. But that's just my opinion, what happens here is up to you guys.

 

[BlackeJan]

If it wasn't already obvious, i am neutral to happens here.

Like if the revisions are for something from the raws, i don't have any motivation to participate.

I am not invested in nor knowledgeable enough about the raws to provide any meaningful input.

That said, the op said Lay won due to speed and skill, so again i don't see why the mid tiers wouldn't fully scale, if Lay is 5-A, they are too. But that's just my opinion, what happens here is up to you guys.

It’s also said that Lay easily beaten them meaning in order to do that, his AP and striking strength are leagues above them or the soldiers durability is a lot lower then Lay’s attacks. I would had wholeheartedly agreed with the OP if it wasn’t for this fact

 

[Ionliosite]

And I still mantain my ground that they shouldn't scale to 5-A. These people scaling to Anos with his power restored is completely wrong, since all the scaling proposed here is based on Anos when he had only fraction of his power, so they obviously wouldn't scale to the feat permorfed by him AFTER he restored his power.

Edit: And BlackeJan still is the one making the most sense here.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, perhaps we should go with Ionliosite's conclusions then?

 

[imZer0Null]

I've already said that Lay easily beat them only because of speed and skill. If you want to further ignore that, then do so. I also didn't want to give the mid tiers solid 5-A since they only put up a fight against the soldiers, and didn't beat them. While I do feel like we should revise who are actually top tiers and who isn't, I still 100% think that top tiers should be scaled to a suppressed Anos. If you haven't read the WN, then you can't just assume that people like Lay isn't a top tier.
A very roundabout way to scale Lay and others as top tiers is this:
Shin Reglia is in no doubt a top tier. Anyone who actually knows about Shin Reglia, knows this. Later in the story, Lay and a few others are compared to Shin. That on it's own is enough to scale top tiers to a suppressed Anos.

I feel like these two people who've been arguing against me also ignore my answers to their questions. If that is so, then I don't see any reason to further argue with them. I'm sorry but I can't entertain this any longer...

@Antvasima
I'd like to make a proposal. Since this CRT was made to upgrade the power of the verse and not just the mid tiers, I propose we accept my suggestion and close this thread. Only 2 people have thus far disagreed, and their arguments doesn't make much sense to me. I think that if they still don't agree after this upgrade is implemented, they can make a CRT to downgrade the mid tiers. This CRT has been going in circles for a while now, and while it's partially my fault for not correctly explaining stuff, I still feel like the people in disagreement don't make much sense. Ionliosite is trying to downgrade the top tiers with no real basis, while me and BlackeJan just can't seem to get what the other is trying to say.

 

[BlackeJan]

I've already said that Lay easily beat them only because of speed and skill. If you want to further ignore that, then do so. I also didn't want to give the mid tiers solid 5-A since they only put up a fight against the soldiers, and didn't beat them. While I do feel like we should revise who are actually top tiers and who isn't, I still 100% think that top tiers should be scaled to a suppressed Anos. If you haven't read the WN, then you can't just assume that people like Lay isn't a top tier.
A very roundabout way to scale Lay and others as top tiers is this:
Shin Reglia is in no doubt a top tier. Anyone who actually knows about Shin Reglia, knows this. Later in the story, Lay and a few others are compared to Shin. That on it's own is enough to scale top tiers to a suppressed Anos.

I feel like these two people who've been arguing against me also ignore my answers to their questions. If that is so, then I don't see any reason to further argue with them. I'm sorry but I can't entertain this any longer...

@Antvasima
I'd like to make a proposal. Since this CRT was made to upgrade the power of the verse and not just the mid tiers, I propose we accept my suggestion and close this thread. Only 2 people have thus far disagreed, and their arguments doesn't make much sense to me. I think that if they still don't agree after this upgrade is implemented, they can make a CRT to downgrade the mid tiers. This CRT has been going in circles for a while now, and while it's partially my fault for not correctly explaining stuff, I still feel like the people in disagreement don't make much sense. Ionliosite is trying to downgrade the top tiers with no real basis, while me and BlackeJan just can't seem to get what the other is trying to say.

No one is ignoring what you are saying , it’s just what happened in the LN doesn’t make sense + you just said the mid tiers didn’t even beat the soldiers which solidifies my argument. Also are you to tell me that all Lay did was just run around the soldiers and magically won without any striking strength or AP? no, Lay is known for his AP and striking strength so of course he hurt them with his attacks. Again I would had wholeheartedly agreed with your argument if the mere fact that Lay didn’t absolutely destroy them

also....just because this is meant for an upgrade thread doesn’t mean that we have to automatically make a CRT for it. I don’t care for the top/god tiers but my main focus is the mid tiers and they should be straight 7-B like you have originally thought

 

[imZer0Null]

Speed and skill. As you know, AP and durability go hand in hand, and I believe it's safe to say that both Lay and the soldiers have the same AP and durability. During the fight, when they were easily beaten, it was something along the lines of his sword making a quick flash and striking the 4 soldiers down. He didn't run around, but his attacks were just too fast. When there was more soldiers, they could group up on him, meaning no more flashy strikes.
I just mainly want to implement the other upgrades and that's why I want this accepted and closed. I have no problem with continuing the mid tier stuff somewhere else, be it another CRT or even on discord...

 

[Ionliosite]

Since this CRT was made to upgrade the power of the verse and not just the mid tiers

If that's the point of contention, the regular thing to do is applying all other changes but that one, and then continue the discussion. You can't close a CRT when a point is still in the middle of discussion.

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

Just to inform someone in a deeper layer could use 1690 smallworld as a shogi and sasha should be scaled to venuzdonoa since venuzdonoa is just a limited version of destruction order (i bring two version of translation too) not to mention sasha could destroy hundreds and thousands world tho,in her unbalance state

 

[Antvasima]

If that's the point of contention, the regular thing to do is applying all other changes but that one, and then continue the discussion. You can't close a CRT when a point is still in the middle of discussion.

Ionliosite is correct. Sorry

 

[AncientKing95]

Just to inform someone in a deeper layer could use 1690 smallworld as a shogi and sasha should be scaled to venuzdonoa since venuzdonoa is just a limited version of destruction order (i bring two version of translation too) not to mention sasha could destroy hundreds and thousands world tho,in her unbalance state

No, Sasha can't destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds in her unbalanced state.. Anos is referring to himself and the world-destroying spell Egil Grone Angdroa that he was using during his fight with Eques when he said that.

 

[Ian2296]

No, Sasha can't destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds in her unbalanced state.. Anos is referring to himself and the world-destroying spell Egil Grone Angdroa that he was using during his fight with Eques when he said that.

yea as i remember, Sasha and Misha combined their power to create hundreds of thousands worlds for Anos and Eques fighting place.

 

[AncientKing95]

yea as i remember, Sasha and Misha combined their power to create hundreds of thousands worlds for Anos and Eques fighting place.

It was just Misha, and she created the Demon King's Garden, a pseudo-world many times more durable than the original world that could (just barely) survive the Egil Grone Angdroa that has the power to destroy a shallow world thousands of times over. The Egil Grone Angdroa is more powerful than Sasha's Sun of Doom.

 

[Ian2296]

It was just Misha, and she created the Demon King's Garden, a pseudo-world many times more durable than the original world that could (just barely) survive the Egil Grone Angdroa that has the power to destroy a shallow world thousands of times over. The Egil Grone Angdroa is more powerful than Sasha's Sun of Doom.

wait, so Egil Grone Angdroa is multiverse? Gotta go re read it!

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

No, Sasha can't destroy hundreds and thousands of worlds in her unbalanced state.. Anos is referring to himself and the world-destroying spell Egil Grone Angdroa that he was using during his fight with Eques when he said that.

Lol so I'm actually missinterprated,fck mtl tho , sorry for that and yeah i also forgot to mention misha created devil garden for anos

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

yea as i remember, Sasha and Misha combined their power to create hundreds of thousands worlds for Anos and Eques fighting place.

Just misha,

I mean it's clearly misha, even tho they are equals ,their nature is opposite

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

wait, so Egil Grone Angdroa is multiverse? Gotta go re read it!

It's always been

 

[imZer0Null]

Ionliosite is correct. Sorry

No problem then. Was just a proposal after all. I kinda don't get why this is being stalled just because two people don't accept, but whatever.

My summary. If it's accepted, please close this thread.

While not all characters will have different keys, if a character takes part in the events of the Silver Sea, they will get a Pre-Silver Sea and Post-Silver Sea key.

Pre-Silver Sea characters and key (Volume 1-10).
1. Low tiers: Stay at 8-C and get Superhuman speeds. The 8-C is from Sasha destroying the stone golem, and Superhuman speeds is because they all have Superhuman Physical Characteristics.
2. Mid tiers: 7-B with Subsonic speeds. The 7-B is because they are scaled to Anos vs Lay battle. Subsonic speeds because they can move faster than the eye can see.
3. Top tiers don't change at all. They stay at 5-A with FTL speeds. Scaled to a suppressed Anos. Not a weakened Anos.

Post-Silver Sea key (Volume 11 and onwards).
4. All characters who take part in the events of the Silver Sea get 3-A with at least FTL speeds. They get likely 3-A because they can harm deeper world inhabitants, characters who all have Universe level durability. They get at least FTL speeds, because they can keep up with deeper world inhabitants, characters who were able to speed blitz other FTL characters.

 

[imZer0Null]

Just to inform someone in a deeper layer could use 1690 smallworld as a shogi and sasha should be scaled to venuzdonoa since venuzdonoa is just a limited version of destruction order (i bring two version of translation too) not to mention sasha could destroy hundreds and thousands world tho,in her unbalance state

As for all this new stuff, thank you, but we're not gonna use any of that here.
If you don't mind, could you give me the chapter number for all those statements, as I might later on make a CRT involving that.

 

[AncientKing95]

As for all this new stuff, thank you, but we're not gonna use any of that here.
If you don't mind, could you give me the chapter number for all those statements, as I might later on make a CRT involving that.

"Just to inform someone in a deeper layer could use 1690 smallworld as a shogi(true statement?): https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/579/
"venuzdonoa is just a limited version of destruction order(sort-of true statement)": https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/186/
"not to mention sasha could destroy hundreds and thousands world tho,in her unbalance state(false statement)": https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/476/

 

[Ionliosite]

Pre-Silver Sea characters and key (Volume 1-10).
1. Low tiers: Stay at 8-C and get Superhuman speeds. The 8-C is from Sasha destroying the stone golem, and Superhuman speeds is because they all have Superhuman Physical Characteristics.
2. Mid tiers: 7-B with Subsonic speeds. The 7-B is because they are scaled to Anos vs Lay battle. Subsonic speeds because they can move faster than the eye can see.
3. Top tiers don't change at all. They stay at 5-A with FTL speeds. Scaled to a suppressed Anos. Not a weakened Anos.

Post-Silver Sea key (Volume 11 and onwards).
4. All characters who take part in the events of the Silver Sea get 3-A with at least FTL speeds. They get likely 3-A because they can harm deeper world inhabitants, characters who all have Universe level durability. They get at least FTL speeds, because they can keep up with deeper world inhabitants, characters who were able to speed blitz other FTL characters.

Yes, this is something I can agree with.

 

[BlackeJan]

I can also agree with what ImZeroNull supposed

 

[AncientKing95]

I'm not sure if I need to have a certain role on the wiki for my opinion to be relevant, but I also agree with imZer0Null.

 

[Guileal]

The intermediate layers must be Supersonic in the fight of Lay x Ydol, both were attacking 200x in 1 second