Upgrade to Power of the Verse - Maou Gakuin

[Guileal]

At first I shouldn't even have a new key, I see no problem in scaling these characters to 5-A, after all they fought beings from the upper layers of the silver sea, which could destroy an entire universe of the lower layer without any effort, unless if you need to create more than 3 keys for all the characters, I’m pretty sure there must be something done to scale Lay and the others to 5-A also before the silver sea

 

[imZer0Null]

Misha and Sasha are mid tiers. They're literally the characters I talked about that can fight against 2 soldiers. Other mid tiers would be scaled to them. If you didn't know, the characters get much stronger in the WN.

Giving Anos a 7-B key is completely unnecessary... The 5-A feat happens in Volume 4, which is currently being translated.
I also don't know why you want to take away Lay's 5-A... He's scaled to a suppressed Anos not a weakened Anos.
Also, Shin Reglia is undoubtedly a top tier capable of 5-A feats, and later in the story it's said that Lay is on par with Shin.

My solution:

Low tiers stay at Building level and get Superhuman speeds.
Mid tiers get either City level, likely Large Planet level or just City level.
The top tiers stay the same.
Post-Silver Sea stuff has already been accepted, so that stays.

**I believe I've said this already, but Pre-Silver Sea is Volume 1-10 of the series, and Post-Silver Sea is all Volumes after that. (The anime only adapted Volumes 1-3)

 

[BlackeJan]

Is Misha and Sasha being mid tiers in the LN? because "They're literally the characters I talked about that can fight against 2 soldiers" is more of an opinion instead. For all we know they could be low tiers

if they are to be mid tiers because of opinions, then they should instead be 8-C, Likely 7-B instead

 

[imZer0Null]

o_0

The characters I talked about before, who were able to put up a fight against 2 soldiers, were Misha and Sasha. All other mid tiers will be scaled to Misha and Sasha.
How does that even sound like an opinion..?
They are mid tiers, not based on opinion, but based on the fact that they actually performed the mid tier feats.
There is NO WAY they are low tiers...

**YES. They are 100% at least mid tiers in the WN.

 

[BlackeJan]

Wait where does 7-B come from?

 

[Ionliosite]

Wait where does 7-B come from?

Anos and Lay's feat.

 

[BlackeJan]

Anos and Lay's feat.

And the 2 soldiers that Misha and Sasha, how strong are they?

 

[imZer0Null]

Did you even read the posts above this..? :/

Like this one...

I then suggest we give mid tiers "At least 7-B, likely 5-A". I will once again explain why I don't believe they should get a solid 5-A.

The mid tiers are able to put up a fight against 2 soldiers. This was mostly a battle of strength. Lay went head to head with about 10+ of these soldiers. In their battle with Lay, they also had some precognition abilities, that made it possible to see into the future and choose the ideal future they want. Their battle wasn't just a battle of strength. When about 4+ soldiers ran up to Lay, without the precognition, he easily beat them. That means 4 soldiers =/= 5-A. With just a few more soldiers and the precognition, they were able to fight head to head with him tho.

I won't deny that putting up a fight against characters who are 5-A as a group means that you should also get 5-A, but the mid tiers weren't able to put up a fight against the 5-A group. They were able to put up a fight against 2 characters from that group of 10+.

Sorry for not explaining this better in previous replies.

Other than that, I'm fine with the rest.

 

[AncientKing95]

Sasha with her Sun of Doom <Surge El Donave> nearly destroyed the entire Militia World(The world that everything takes place in Pre-Silver Sea). https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/450/ Misha is comparable to Sasha via her Moon of Creation <Artier Tonoa>. Then later on, Sasha and Misha combine their powers to defeat an extremely powerful enemy from a deeper world, someone who could easily destroy a more shallow universe. https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/620/ Therefore, Sasha and Misha should qualify for, "At least 5-B, Likely 3-A".

 

[Ian2296]

Shouldn't the deeper world inhabitants have infinite speed?

　Is this heavy?

　What did you do? No, it's not.

"You can't move your magic or body the way you want."

　Balzerondo moved in an instant in front of me on my knees.

　I don't use magic. It's just speed.　

It says balzerondo moved in an instant

As soon as I thought his figure blurred, he took my back in an instant.

　In the end, I was able to catch his kick with my palm, and the sparks of magic power scattered violently.

"It's a frog in the well"

My body was blown off very easily and crashed into the wall of the hull.

And also, isn't anos' speed is infinite?

 

[Antvasima]

To me the solution is simply what I told people ages ago but they ignored me: Give Anos a 7-B key for thee time on which he was weakened (aka, the first few volumes of the series). It solves absolultely all scaling problems in this CRT, sine it accounts for Anos being weaker than normal and doesn't make it so people scale to a feat that hasn't even happened.

What do the rest of you think about this suggestion?

 

[Guileal]

Just make 3 keys for each character, at least those who participate in the events of the Silver Sea, do the same as you did with Anos

 

[Guileal]

Sasha with her Sun of Doom <Surge El Donave> nearly destroyed the entire Militia World(The world that everything takes place in Pre-Silver Sea). https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/450/ Misha is comparable to Sasha via her Moon of Creation <Artier Tonoa>. Then later on, Sasha and Misha combine their powers to defeat an extremely powerful enemy from a deeper world, someone who could easily destroy a more shallow universe. https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/620/ Therefore, Sasha and Misha should qualify for, "At least 5-B, Likely 3-A".

this is already a concrete basis for universal

 

[Guileal]

Honestly I find it completely unnecessary to create a key for Anos just to scale the lower layers of the verse, the character from the beginning is completely superior to any character even when he was only with 10% of his power, besides that it was always suppressing its own power

 

[imZer0Null]

Low tiers stay at Building level and get Superhuman speeds.
Mid tiers get either City level, likely Large Planet level or just City level.
The top tiers stay the same.
Post-Silver Sea stuff has already been accepted, so that stays.

You guys fine with this solution? With this they get Pre- and Post-Silver Sea keys...

**Can we also finish this CRT please? If you want to make specific characters weaker or stronger, go make another CRT. This CRT is purely for upgrading the power of the verse, and I feel like it's been dragged out by now.

 

[Ionliosite]

Honestly I find it completely unnecessary to create a key for Anos just to scale the lower layers of the verse, the character from the beginning is completely superior to any character even when he was only with 10% of his power, besides that it was always suppressing its own power

Saying "we don't need more keys" and then saying "he only had a fraction of his power during all the time that makes up over 100 chapters of the series" sounds very conflicting, considering the latter is a perfect justification to make another key.

 

[Ionliosite]

**Can we also finish this CRT please? If you want to make specific characters weaker or stronger, go make another CRT. This CRT is purely for upgrading the power of the verse, and I feel like it's been dragged out by now.

We can't finish this CRT until we solve how to scale the characters. You can't rush a CRT just because you don't seem to get scaling is an important part of tiering.

 

[BlackeJan]

Did you even read the posts above this..? :/

Like this one...

I mean by what you wrote....Misha and Sasha shouldn’t even have a 5-A rating in general. From what I’ve read, the reason why they could even keep up is only because of hax (precognition). It even said that Lay had beat them easily so we can’t even be able to gauge how strong they are with a person who was obviously stronger

Also from what I’m getting from what you written....it makes it sound like:
4 individual soldiers = strong as Lay
2 individual soldiers = half as strong as Lay

 

[imZer0Null]

Saying "we don't need more keys" and then saying "he only had a fraction of his power during all the time that makes up over 100 chapters of the series" sounds very conflicting, considering the latter is a perfect justification to make another key.

Idk how much of this series you've read, but Anos suppresses his power up until and even during the events of the Silver Sea... That's why he has a True Power key. There is no need for a 7-B key.

 

[AncientKing95]

I'd like to point out that Melheis and Eugo La Raviaz aren't 5-A. They are only comparable to Anos Voldigoad at 10% of his power(And Anos was weakened in both fights; in the fight against Eugo La Raviaz, Anos was sharing his magic power with the Necron Sisters via the spell <Guys>, and the class characteristic of the one who shares magic power, "King", has his magic power reduced by 30% when sharing it with others. That means that Anos was only at 7% of his power during his fight against Eugo La Raviaz. Due to the magic draining ring that Anos had worn before his fight with Melheis, half of his magic power was drained from him. So Anos was only fighting Melheis at 5% of his power). We know that Anos had destroyed all of Dilhaide(The Demon Nation) with a single Jio-Graze while half-asleep 2000+ years before the start of the story, which is 6-B AP. During the time of the actual story, Anos doesn't even display 6-B power until he destroys the Holy Lake Seimei, where Anos implies that if not for the holy water of the lake, the country-destroying power of the Jio Graze he used wouldn't have been suppressed. Sasha was completely surprised at the power of the Jio Graze that Anos used when destroying Holy Lake Seimei, which means the Jio Graze's that he used while he was still at 10% of his power were likely not as powerful. It's likely that Anos was only 6-C while at 10% of his power, so Eugo La Raviaz and Melheis should scale to that instead.

At the beginning of the story, Sasha and Misha are much weaker than Eugo La Raviaz and Melheis, who are 6-C at best. The most impressive feat that Sasha has early on in the story is destroying the giant golem during the team battle exam with a Jio Graze, which would put her at around 8-C. Misha, who has the same amount of magic power as Sasha, scales to her. When Lay goes all-out against Anos during their fight(the one during Volume 3), he shows comparable power. Anos while heavily suppressed is 6-B, therefore, Lay was initially 6-B as well.

Characters such as Avos, Arcana and Shin are comparable to Lay(6-B) and heavily suppressed Anos(6-B). Therefore, they are also 6-B.

Sasha, Misha, Avos, Shin, and Lay all become more powerful later in the story, especially Post-Silver Sea. All of them have defeated a powerful inhabitant/powerful inhabitants of deeper worlds who could easily destroy smaller worlds. Therefore, they should all qualify for 3-A.

To sum everything up;
-Melheis and Eugo La Raviaz should have a 6-C key
-Sasha and Misha should have an 8-C(BoS) key and a 3-A key
-Avos, Lay, Arcana and Shin should have a 6-B(BoS) key and a 3-A key(Arcana doesn't get more powerful, but her hax work just as effectively on deeper world inhabitants)
-Anos should also have a 6-C(10%) and a 6-B(Heavily Suppressed) key

 

[imZer0Null]

We can't finish this CRT until we solve how to scale the characters. You can't rush a CRT just because you don't seem to get scaling is an important part of tiering.

I do get scaling is important, but you keep wanting to add unnecessary keys and stuff. Most of what I've said has been accepted. The only thing that wasn't fully accepted was the mid tiers...
The last suggestion I made was already accepted by Antvasima too, and we were just waiting for Celestial's opinion on it.

 

[imZer0Null]

I mean by what you wrote....Misha and Sasha shouldn’t even have a 5-A rating in general. From what I’ve read, the reason why they could even keep up is only because of hax (precognition). It even said that Lay had beat them easily so we can’t even be able to gauge how strong they are with a person who was obviously stronger

Also from what I’m getting from what you written....it makes it sound like:
4 individual soldiers = strong as Lay
2 individual soldiers = half as strong as Lay

Exactly. I originally didn't want to give them 5-A, but we came to a compromise of 7-B, likely 5-A.

Also, 4 soldiers =/= 5-A, but 5+ soldiers = likely 5-A

*The precognition helped a lot in the fight, but it doesn't upgrade attack potency. The fact remains that 5+ soldiers were able to harm Lay.

 

[imZer0Null]

To sum everything up;
-Melheis and Eugo La Raviaz should have a 6-C key
-Sasha and Misha should have an 8-C(BoS) key and a 3-A key
-Avos, Lay, Arcana and Shin should have a 6-B(BoS) key and a 3-A key(Arcana doesn't get more powerful, but her hax work just as effectively on deeper world inhabitants)
-Anos should also have a 6-C(10%) and a 6-B(Heavily Suppressed) key

-In both of these fight, Anos had to use Venuzdonoa to win. He wasn't able to defeat them with less than 10% of his power.
-They were 8-C, but they get 7-B, likely 5-A, because Pre-Silver Sea isn't just anime feats (Pre-Silver Sea = Volume 1-10). I guess you've read the WN, so you should know they don't stay 8-C after the anime.
-No. They get 5-A Pre-Silver Sea keys. I've explained a bit about why Lay gets a 5-A key in a previous post.
-No need for extra keys.

*I'm not sure if the 6-B stuff can be accepted, but if it is accepted, we can give the mid tiers 6-B, likely 5-A.

 

[AncientKing95]

-In both of these fight, Anos had to use Venuzdonoa to win. He wasn't able to defeat them with >10% of his power.
-They were 8-C, but they get 7-B, likely 5-A, because Pre-Silver Sea isn't just anime feats (Pre-Silver Sea = Volume 1-10). I guess you've read the WN, so you should know they don't stay 8-C after the anime.
-No. They get 5-A Pre-Silver Sea keys. I've explained a bit about why Lay gets a 5-A key above this post.
-No need for extra keys.

-It was clear that Anos was more powerful than them with 10% of his power, as he was weakened and at less than 10% of his power in both fights. In particular, he was still overpowering Eugo La Raviaz at 7% of his power before using Venuzdonoa(This is more apparent in the Manga and Light Novel). In the Eugo La Raviaz fight, assuming that Anos couldn't use Bebezed at the time, even though he was clearly more powerful than the Time God the Time God couldn't take damage from regular attacks. Yes, he had to use Venuzdonoa to kill him(again, assuming he couldn't use Bebezed), but he was still more powerful than him even without Venuzdonoa. In the Melheis fight, Anos didn't need to use Venuzdonoa against Melheis because he had already gained all of his power back and <Beno Leven> had no effect on him anymore. It was more of a "since I'm already in my castle, I might as well summon Venuzdonoa to finish Melheis off".
-That's true, I wasn't thinking past the anime
-Post-Silver Sea, Lay was able to damage Yzak, someone who fought on par with Anos who used the Nirvana Seven Steps, the Two Rites Sword and the Egil Grone Angdroa(alongside other powerful spells, the three I brought up are known world/universe-destroying spells). This should qualify Lay for at least 3-A, and since Avos, Lay, Arcana and Shin are all comparable of varying degrees to Lay, they should also qualify for at least 3-A.
-Characters such as Misha and Sasha(among others) should definitely have Pre-Silver Sea and Post-Silver Sea keys.

Now that I think about it, the Two Rites Sword should also be added in as part of Anos' Equipment, since it's arguably as strong as if not stronger than Venuzdonoa due to it being able to/have taken in a large part of Anos' source of destruction. On top of that, Anos uses it pretty frequently after he obtains/creates it Post-Silver Sea.

 

[imZer0Null]

Why wouldn't he be able to use Bebesd? Nothing indicates he can't use it... Also, you proved my point by stating he didn't need Venuzdonoa against Melheis, because he regained his full power. Anos with less than 10% of his power wasn't able to beat Melheis, but full power Anos can. He has a 5-A rating because we consider him a top tier, but if you feel he's a mid tier, we can give him 7-B, likely 5-A like the rest of the mid tiers.

I know how powerful Lay becomes Post-Silver Sea. I was talking about Pre-Silver Sea only. If you read my original post at the top, you'll see what I've suggested for the Post-Silver Sea key... It's also already been accepted, so any characters that take part in the events of the Silver Sea will get the Post-Silver Sea key once this CRT is finished.

 

[AncientKing95]

Why wouldn't he be able to use Bebesd? Nothing indicates he can't use it... Also, you proved my point by stating he didn't need Venuzdonoa against Melheis, because he regained his full power. Anos with less than 10% of his power wasn't able to beat Melheis, but full power Anos can. He has a 5-A rating because we consider him a top tier, but if you feel he's a mid tier, we can give him 7-B, likely 5-A like the rest of the mid tiers.

I know how powerful Lay becomes Post-Silver Sea. I was talking about Pre-Silver Sea only. If you read my original post at the top, you'll see what I've suggested for the Post-Silver Sea key... It's also already been accepted, so any characters that take part in the events of the Silver Sea will get the Post-Silver Sea key once this CRT is finished.

Oh, I see. But you guys consider Melheis and Eugo La Raviaz top tier? Even if we're only taking Pre-Silver Sea events into consideration, they are mid-tier at best. Top-tier characters would be characters on the level of Shin, Lay, Graham, Anahem, Eques or stronger.

 

[imZer0Null]

I'd like to remind you guys of where this thread currently is. Feel free to tell me if you don't agree with something. I'll number it to make it easier.

While not all characters will have different keys, if a character takes part in the events of the Silver Sea, they will get a Pre-Silver Sea and Post-Silver Sea key.

Pre-Silver Sea characters and key (Volume 1-10).
1. Low tiers: Stay at 8-C and get Superhuman speeds. The 8-C is from Sasha destroying the stone golem, and Superhuman speeds is because they all have Superhuman Physical Characteristics.
2. Mid tiers: 7-B, likely 5-A with Subsonic speeds. The 7-B is because they are scaled to Anos vs Lay battle. The likely 5-A is because they were able to put up a fight against about 2 soldiers. 5+ of these soldiers were able to harm Lay, giving the likely 5-A. Subsonic speeds because they can move faster than the eye can see.
3. Top tiers don't change at all. They stay at 5-A with FTL speeds. Scaled to a suppressed Anos. Not a weakened Anos.

Post-Silver Sea key (Volume 11 and onwards).
4. All characters who take part in the events of the Silver Sea get likely 3-A with at least FTL speeds. I'm not yet certain if likely can be omitted. They get likely 3-A because they can harm deeper world inhabitants, characters who all have Universe level durability. They get at least FTL speeds, because they can keep up with deeper world inhabitants, characters who were able to speed blitz other FTL characters.

Just note that 1, 3 and 4 has already been accepted, and there's no need to try and change them unnecessarily. The posts above this contains the reasons as to why they've already been accepted.
2 has so far been adjusted based on the opinions of people with authority on stuff like this.

 

[Antvasima]

Are the rest of you fine with the suggestions in Null's summary?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Seems alright

 

[AncientKing95]

I think something that everyone's forgetting is that just because a character is of a certain tier, that doesn't mean that their durability is also that tier as well. As an example, just because those soldiers were able to harm Lay who is 5-A, that doesn't make them 5-A. After all, Lay has never once demonstrated durability close to 5-A. Well, unless I'm missing something here.

 

[imZer0Null]

You're missing something here...

Durability

Durability is the property which guarantees the ability to withstand a certain amount of force. Withstanding force consists of the measurement of the severity of damage from attacks. This is not to be confused with endurance; while durability is the ability to withstand damage, endurance is a...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also, are you fine with the suggestions in my summary?

 

[AncientKing95]

You're missing something here...

Durability

Durability is the property which guarantees the ability to withstand a certain amount of force. Withstanding force consists of the measurement of the severity of damage from attacks. This is not to be confused with endurance; while durability is the ability to withstand damage, endurance is a...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also, are you fine with the suggestions in my summary?

I am. It seems pretty reasonable.

 

[Ionliosite]

Are the rest of you fine with the suggestions in Null's summary?

No, mid tiers have absolutely no reason to scale to Anos with his power restored.

 

[BlackeJan]

Are the rest of you fine with the suggestions in Null's summary?

The guy in the OP is honestly ignoring some things. Why in the world would Misha/Sasha scale to soldiers that got completely dominated by Lay and could only keep up only with hax? imZeroNull even said that without that precognition that Lay defeated them easily

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like we are going in circles here. The only way out of it that I know of would be if some experienced member, such as Ionliosite, summarises the arguments above, after which I ask other staff members for help with evaluating it.

 

[imZer0Null]

No, mid tiers have absolutely no reason to scale to Anos with his power restored.

They aren't tho?! They're scaled to the Anos vs Lay fight. Meaning a weakened Anos.

 

[BlackeJan]

It seems like we are going in circles here. The only way out of it that I know of would be if some experienced member, such as Ionliosite, summarises the arguments above, after which I ask other staff members for help with evaluating it.

Im not trying to be rude or anything like that but imagine scaling "mid tiers" to god tiers.....does that make sense? Misha/Sasha scaling to soldiers who could "harm" Lay (that EASILY defeated them) and Lay is comparable to Anos who is LEAGUES above Misha/Sasha

 

[imZer0Null]

The guy in the OP is honestly ignoring some things. Why in the world would Misha/Sasha scale to soldiers that got completely dominated by Lay and could only keep up only with hax? imZeroNull even said that without that precognition that Lay defeated them easily

I've said this before... 5+ soldiers were able to harm Lay. Precognition doesn't make your attack potency higher.
Misha and Sasha also fought 2 of those soldiers, soldiers who are able to harm a 5-A character. That's why they get likely 5-A.

 

[imZer0Null]

Im not trying to be rude or anything like that but imagine scaling "mid tiers" to god tiers.....does that make sense? Misha/Sasha scaling to soldiers who could "harm" Lay (that EASILY defeated them) and Lay is comparable to Anos who is LEAGUES above Misha/Sasha

Imagine only watching the anime then saying stuff like this. Anyone who's read up to Volume 10 of the WN knows Misha and Sasha are actually powerful... Please don't say stuff like this if you only watched the anime.

 

[AncientKing95]

Should a section for Dragonman be added within "Characters"? Because if so, Diedrich, Ahide, and Viaflare should be added there. Oh, Shin, Celis and Graham should also be added under the section for Mazoku.