Unpopular Opinions and (Friendly) Rant thread

[DivineAura44]

Europeans when Kendrick said "Certified Lover Boy, Certified Pe**phile":

 

[Arceus0x]

But you're complaining about a rapper, born in America and based in the West Coast, making a track that involves hip-hop and American culture, to create verses that aren't just surface level.

I just think that, even if these references are fine as it is, they aren't used to their fullest extend imo. I am no rap expert but if you've talent, and I think Kendrick does, you can obliterate an opponent, roast him. Instead there's like a few heavy hitter lines and that's basically it really. The rest reads as just statements rather than attacks or disses. Additionally I am also talking about stuff that is very vaguely known. It's not like it is all just niche references but some you need to seriously learn.
For reference, several of the bars are essentially responses to another disstrack's one-liners. Unless you listen several times to them I very much doubt you'll remember everything or correlate the two lines in time for it to have effect.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I just think that, even if these references are fine as it is, they aren't used to their fullest extend imo. I am no rap expert but if you've talent, and I think Kendrick does, you can obliterate an opponent, roast him. Instead there's like a few heavy hitter lines and that's basically it really. The rest reads as just statements rather than attacks or disses. Additionally I am also talking about stuff that is very vaguely known. It's not like it is all just niche references but some you need to seriously learn.
For reference, several of the bars are essentially responses to another disstrack's one-liners. Unless you listen several times to them I very much doubt you'll remember everything or correlate the two lines in time for it to have effect.

And that's fair, but I believe the way you went about spilling your complaints was just a bit odd.

Oh but, what artists do you usually listen to? When it comes to hip hop and rap I mean.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

It's negative to me cause it is something very very niche. Sorry that I can't enjoy something that you need to read up on loads of random drama and shit to understand, not to mention a good chunk of it is a one off mention.

Researching and picking apart someones life seems like it goes above for a diss. It's pretty much a diss to the person in every sense of the word.

 

[Arceus0x]

Researching and picking apart someones life seems like it goes above for a diss. It's pretty much a diss to the person in every sense of the word.

Yeah but then the only point of the diss is to simply make a ballsy move. If you want to attack a person especially of that size making something that is easier to understand would be better imo. Sure, it worked here for many factors, but I'd say that all it really was was a callout on how Drake is a creep. When I think diss track I think something that you can listen to and go "Man, that guy really fried this guy" but here I just couldn't catch that.
Maybe you're right, maybe this is what a diss track is supposes to be as it originally was, in which case I'm kinda disappointed ngl.

 

[DivineAura44]

I guess I see the problem. Arceus is probably used to common rap where the references can be understood by anyone. Kendrick's entire craft however, is based on his wordplay and lyricism. His ability to connect ideas through usage of entendre, metaphor, and subliminal messaging is why he's commonly regarded as one of the greatest rappers of all time to many, including me.

Kendrick was not gonna suddenly switch up in order to appease others. He perfected his craft and is the greatest conscious rapper of all time. So that explains why he raps the way he does on his disses. It's the way he's been rapping his entire career.

 

[DivineAura44]

Yeah but then the only point of the diss is to simply make a ballsy move. If you want to attack a person especially of that size making something that is easier to understand would be better imo. Sure, it worked here for many factors, but I'd say that all it really was was a callout on how Drake is a creep. When I think diss track I think something that you can listen to and go "Man, that guy really fried this guy" but here I just couldn't catch that.
Maybe you're right, maybe this is what a diss track is supposes to be as it originally was, in which case I'm kinda disappointed ngl.

So how do you suppose he "fry this guy"?
If not calling him a colonizer who is trying to infringe on a culture that isn't his,
If not calling him a womanizer who manipulates women destroying their psyche,
If not calling him a deadbeat who doesn't take care of Adonis and has a 2nd hidden daughter,
If not calling him a legitimate groomer who preys on young children,

What should he say?

I have my own issues but the subject material definitely isn't one of them at least for me personally.

 

[Arceus0x]

So how do you suppose he "fry this guy"?
If not calling him a colonizer who is trying to infringe on a culture that isn't his,
If not calling him a womanizer who manipulates women destroying their psyche,
If not calling him a deadbeat who doesn't take care of Adonis and has a 2nd hidden daughter,
If not calling him a legitimate groomer who preys on young children,

What should he say?

That's like 10 lines you mentioned out of a 100+ line rap. I expected more. I'm not saying he ain't got bars, I am saying I wanted to see more of it but instead most lines barely slapped.

I guess I see the problem. Arceus is probably used to common rap where the references can be understood by anyone. Kendrick's entire craft however, is based on his wordplay and lyricism. His ability to connect ideas through usage of entendre, metaphor, and subliminal messaging is why he's commonly regarded as one of the greatest rappers of all time to many, including me.

Kendrick was not gonna suddenly switch up in order to appease others. He perfected his craft and is the greatest conscious rapper of all time. So that explains why he raps the way he does on his disses. It's the way he's been rapping his entire career.

And I get it, but what I'm saying is I just don't like it and think it just doesn't hit hard enough. You can make whatever you want but if I have to know the plot to a random ass low budget american comedy that flopped both money wise and rating wise, to understand one line out of your rap, then I simply cannot say it is all good man, no matter how clever it is.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

If not calling him a colonizer who is trying to infringe on a culture that isn't his,
If not calling him a womanizer who manipulates women destroying their psyche,
If not calling him a deadbeat who doesn't take care of Adonis and has a 2nd hidden daughter,
If not calling him a legitimate groomer who preys on young children,

What should he say?

Nah. Kendrick should've called Drake a cartoon character that says "geez louise"

 

[Arceus0x]

Additionally if you release a diss, especially against Drake, you gotta ask, who are you showing your rap to? What's the point of it. If the point is saying "Drake is bad" so others can see the obvious, then you are targeting Drake listeners or those who know about him decently. I very much doubt Drake listeners and random people who dabble understood every if not most references. A good chunk of people who listened most definitely heard that the obvious lines and what they thought was "he called drake a pedo and a musical colonizer he is so based".

Like lemme give you an example of what I mean. I really love Stupendium. This lad makes peak nerdcore music that is, imo, unmatched on the internet. Every song Stupe makes has very specific bars and references that only those who play the game understand, but the rap is made in a way that those who have no knowledge of the game will understand it and enjoy it. Stupes knows that the targets are both game fans and just random gamers, and thus the raps are made to be for both.

Instead what we see in Kendrick's rap is something that mainly isn't aimed at an audience that needs to hear his words. They heard it still because clearly Ken is good at his job but I still feel it is way too niche for a diss against one of the most popular rappers of all time.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Additionally if you release a diss, especially against Drake, you gotta ask, who are you showing your rap to? What's the point of it. If the point is saying "Drake is bad" so others can see the obvious, then you are targeting Drake listeners or those who know about him decently. I very much doubt Drake listeners and random people who dabble understood every if not most references. A good chunk of people who listened most definitely heard that the obvious lines and what they thought was "he called drake a pedo and a musical colonizer he is so based".

Like lemme give you an example of what I mean. I really love Stupendium. This lad makes peak nerdcore music that is, imo, unmatched on the internet. Every song Stupe makes has very specific bars and references that only those who play the game understand, but the rap is made in a way that those who have no knowledge of the game will understand it and enjoy it. Stupes knows that the targets are both game fans and just random gamers, and thus the raps are made to be for both.

Instead what we see in Kendrick's rap is something that mainly isn't aimed at an audience that needs to hear his words. They heard it still because clearly Ken is good at his job but I still feel it is way too niche for a diss against one of the most popular rappers of all time.

I think art and music in general is overall better if you just dont cater to your fans or the average listener.

 

[Arceus0x]

I think art and music in general is overall better if you just dont cater to your fans or the average listener.

But then what's the point of pointing out something bad about a person if you're not trying to tell people that they're a bad person? If you officially publish it then you intend for it to be seen and if you want it to be seen it is best for it to be comprehensible for people that aren't in on absolutely everything.

 

[DivineAura44]

That's like 10 lines you mentioned out of a 100+ line rap. I expected more. I'm not saying he ain't got bars, I am saying I wanted to see more of it but instead most lines barely slapped.

1. Euphoria has multiple lines, from him mocking Drake's Canadian voice to "We don't wanna hear you say ... no more". He continues on in MTG with the "You Lied" rant where he points out how Drake comes from a Jewish background and has celebrated the religion in the past but now runs from it. He then straight up says it in They Not Like Us.
2. Him being a womanizer is heavily covered in Meet The Grahams and Euphoria as well.
3. He has 2 separate verses specifically about Drake being a deadbeat, one for Adonis, the other for his daughter. You can't make this up.
4. The literal entire song of They Not Like Us is about the allegations. Drake was literally forced to make a response on it, I don't know what more can Kendrick do.



Other topics: Drake being a habitual liar, Drake doing surgery to make himself look better (lmao, I can understand if you don't find this the most attacking), Drake being zesty (this one too) Drake being overall an immature ass boy who needs to grow up, Drake's constant need for support and how his closest friends may not be what they seem.


Once again I ask, even if you think his subject material could have been stronger, what should Kendrick have said? I don't see what he could have done better when it comes to his topics.

And I get it, but what I'm saying is I just don't like it and think it just doesn't hit hard enough. You can make whatever you want but if I have to know the plot to a random ass low budget american comedy that flopped both money wise and rating wise, to understand one line out of your rap, then I simply cannot say it is all good man, no matter how clever it is.

Do you? I don't think Kendrick ever reaches this point of obscurity. And even if you do have to go online, do some research, and come back to fully appreciate everything he says, is that a bad thing? I don't think you have to understand the reference to like it but the 3 minutes it takes to go on Genius and see any lines you may have missed doesn't make a bad thing.
I don't understand every joke, notice every subtle glance, or even understand all the dialogue in a movie sometimes but I still love it. And it's even more fun when I can rewatch the movie and find something to appreciate that I never noticed before. It's also extremely satisfying when I catch something that someone said like a deep cut reference. I can understand where you are coming from because you want the music to be the full package the second it's delivered but for me, that makes the music MORE enjoyable,

 

[DivineAura44]

Nah. Kendrick should've called Drake a cartoon character that says "geez louise"

TRUE, never even thought about that. Drake won the beef.

 

[First_Witch]

But Kendricks allegation lines are perfectly comprehensible for the average person? There isnt much to decipher between the deadbeat allegations, pdf allegations or the hiding his children allegations etc. Everything else is just to make the song more complex, adding jabs to the clear statements through lyricism and west coast vernacular.

I kinda got your point, but it just dosnt apply to this specific set of songs because they are so in your face about it?

Granted, you could make a argument about how well each song did on that front, but if you listen to them in release date then youre at most confused after Euphoria and completly zoned in with Meet the Grahams. Like Meet the Grahams gives you everything you need to know about how Kendrick feels about Drake, that song is a single character assassination.

 

[Da3ggman]

Like lemme give you an example of what I mean. I really love Stupendium. This lad makes peak nerdcore music that is, imo, unmatched on the internet. Every song Stupe makes has very specific bars and references that only those who play the game understand, but the rap is made in a way that those who have no knowledge of the game will understand it and enjoy it. Stupes knows that the targets are both game fans and just random gamers, and thus the raps are made to be for both.

Nah bro, Kendrick and Stupendium do not even belong in the same essay. Please never compare the person who made Good Kid, Maad City to the guy who made An Imposter Calls in any regard lmao.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Nah bro, Kendrick and Stupendium do not even belong in the same essay. Please never compare the person who made Good Kid, Maad City to the guy who made An Imposter Calls in any regard lmao.

He's making a simple comparison/analogy.

 

[Arceus0x]

Nah bro, Kendrick and Stupendium do not even belong in the same essay. Please never compare the person who made Good Kid, Maad City to the guy who made An Imposter Calls in any regard lmao.

I compared them in regards to how they write towards the audience, not in their rap skills. They're basically two different genres altogether. But hey hey, thanks for showing that your reading comprehension is at an all time low.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Lets everyone please calm down, no need to be harsh

 

[Arceus0x]

But Kendricks allegation lines are perfectly comprehensible for the average person? There isnt much to decipher between the deadbeat allegations, pdf allegations or the hiding his children allegations etc. Everything else is just to make the song more complex, adding jabs to the clear statements through lyricism and west coast vernacular.

But that's my issue, he stabs him several times and then he just doesn't even jab he just flails the knife around. Drake has enough material piled up to cook him up so why use random references and stuff barely anyone will get? Sure, it's complex, but not everything needs to be super complex to be good.

I kinda got your point, but it just dosnt apply to this specific set of songs because they are so in your face about it?

Some parts are in your face but many are just really convoluted. If i listen to something i wanna get it, not have to read dozens of paragraphs explaining that this line is a response to this line that responded to this line from another diss track.

Granted, you could make a argument about how well each song did on that front, but if you listen to them in release date then youre at most confused after Euphoria and completly zoned in with Meet the Grahams. Like Meet the Grahams gives you everything you need to know about how Kendrick feels about Drake, that song is a single character assassination.

Ok, but I'm talking about Not like us, not every Kendrick song.

 

[Arceus0x]

Lets everyone please calm down, no need to be harsh

I'm really tired of mfs putting words in my mouth that I never said.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

I'm really tired of mfs putting words in my mouth that I never said.

My request also applied to them

 

[Da3ggman]

I compared them in regards to how they write towards the audience, not in their rap skills. They're basically two different genres altogether. But hey hey, thanks for showing that your reading comprehension is at an all time low.

If they’re two completely different genres, then why compare the way they write? If the two of them are so different, then yeah, they’d obviously have separate ways of writing and reaching their audience.

Also, please stop with the petty insults. It doesn’t get anyone anywhere, and it just makes you look like a dick.

 

[DivineAura44]

If they’re two completely different genres, then why compare the way they write? If the two of them are so different, then yeah, they’d obviously have separate ways of writing and reaching their audience.

Also, please stop with the petty insults. It doesn’t get anyone anywhere, and it just makes you look like a dick.

Can we just agree to change the subject? There's zero reason to go back and forth on this.

 

[First_Witch]

But that's my issue, he stabs him several times and then he just doesn't even jab he just flails the knife around. Drake has enough material piled up to cook him up so why use random references and stuff barely anyone will get? Sure, it's complex, but not everything needs to be super complex to be good.

How exactly do you want him to cook him up further than "You are a pedophile and like Weinstein"? You want him to list up the children abused? "You hid Another child to hide another child"? You want him to conjure up another kid to add another hidden child to the list? "You are a sexpest that abuses woman"? You want him to delve further into how Drake does it, thus potentially risk harming said woman further? Thats my point, those lines are so in your face that there just isnt much more to say.

But okay, youre talking about

Ok, but I'm talking about Not like us, not every Kendrick song.

So lets see. They not like us is kinda in the title already. Kendrick dropped every major allegation already with MtG, so here Kendrick focuses on Drake as a rapper or rather how fake and disrespectful he is to the culture. Yes, it is West Coast Hiphop culture mainly and yes, you wont get it unless youre deep in that. But the songs attack angle was that Drake also wasnt deep in it unlike Kendrick. This is a attack from a Rapper to a "rapper" for other rappers and rap enthusiast, so youre pretty much not the target audience (Granted, so am I really, but I believe Kendricks core message is understandable even as a non rap boomer like me=

Some parts are in your face but many are just really convoluted. If i listen to something i wanna get it, not have to read dozens of paragraphs explaining that this line is a response to this line that responded to this line from another diss track.

I woudnt listen to Meet the Grahams for fun either... This point is pretty subjective so I'm not gonna argue on that. They not Like is a catchy tune so thats enough for me in terms of listening. Euphoria is way more up my own aile, The "I hate everything about you" bar there lives rent free in my head.

 

[Da3ggman]

Can we just agree to change the subject? There's zero reason to go back and forth on this.

Sure, that’s fine by me; I’ve got no stake in the game.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I can name 20 CN shows that are better than Steven Universe (I totally didn't make this take to piss @DivineAura44 off).

 

[Arceus0x]

If they’re two completely different genres, then why compare the way they write? If the two of them are so different, then yeah, they’d obviously have separate ways of writing and reaching their audience.

Because I wasn't comparing the ways they reach their audiences but the way they approach that question. Just because artists are different doesn't mean they can't both write in a way that is familiar to those with niche understanding of the subject and those who just came to see what's going on.

Also, please stop with the petty insults. It doesn’t get anyone anywhere, and it just makes you look like a dick.

Shoving thing I never said up my mouth is also a dick move

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

I can name 20 CN shows that are better than Steven Universe (I totally didn't make this take to piss @DivineAura44 off).

Name them

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Name them

Ngl I just threw out a random number but give me a bit

 

[DivineAura44]

I can name 20 CN shows that are better than Steven Universe (I totally didn't make this take to piss @DivineAura44 off).

I can take that list, throw it away and find 20 MORE shows better than Johnny Test (This is in no way a shot at @RandomGuy2345)

 

[Arceus0x]

This point is pretty subjective so I'm not gonna argue on that. They not Like is a catchy tune so thats enough for me in terms of listening. Euphoria is way more up my own aile, The "I hate everything about you" bar there lives rent free in my head.

I think at this point the whole thing is rather subjective. I agree that maybe the rap was indeed more so for rappers than for us, in which case I'd say it makes sense.
I think it a bit unfair to ask me how I'd cook him further, I ain't a rapper, I am simply speaking as a listener. If a chefs makes a very niche type of pastry, is a man not allowed to say that it could've tasted sweeter?
Either way it is definitely gone too subjective so I'll leave it off at that.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I can take that list, throw it away and find 20 MORE shows better than Johnny Test (This is in no way a shot at @RandomGuy2345)

You objectively can cause there are dozens of shows that are better than Johnny Test, I just enjoy JT more lol.

 

[DivineAura44]

I think at this point the whole thing is rather subjective. I agree that maybe the rap was indeed more so for rappers than for us, in which case I'd say it makes sense.
I think it a bit unfair to ask me how I'd cook him further, I ain't a rapper, I am simply speaking as a listener. If a chefs makes a very niche type of pastry, is a man not allowed to say that it could've tasted sweeter?
Either way it is definitely gone too subjective so I'll leave it off at that.

Who is "us"? I listened to every bar in the beef and there was no reference a rapper would get that I wouldn't. If anything, Drake has a bar that plays off of music theory in THP6.
I understood it but that was probably the closest thing you could get to it.

 

[First_Witch]

Who is "us"? I listened to every bar in the beef and there was no reference a rapper would get that I wouldn't. If anything, Drake has a bar that plays off of music theory in THP6.
I understood it but that was probably the closest thing you could get to it.

Us europeans whos only connection to rap culture is through rap lmfao

 

[Arceus0x]

Who is "us"? I listened to every bar in the beef and there was no reference a rapper would get that I wouldn't.

That seems more like a you thing lmao. Us is the casual audience not involved with rap. Us. Is also europeans not knowledgeable in all parts of american culture.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Name them

1. Adventure Time
2. Regular Show
3. The Amazing World of Gumball
4. Ben 10
5. Chowder
6. Johnny Test
7. Teen Titans
8. Total Drama
9. Codename: Kids Next Door
10. Courage The Cowardly Dog
11. Ed, Edd, and Eddy
12. The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy
13. Johnny Bravo
14. Justice League
15. Justice League: Unlimited
16. The Looney Tunes Show
17. OK K.O. Let's Be Heroes!
18. The PowerPuff Girls
19. Samurai Jack
20. Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated

 

[Arceus0x]

Us europeans whos only connection to rap culture is through rap lmfao

Americans when they remember that Europe exists:

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

1. Adventure Time
2. Regular Show
3. The Amazing World of Gumball
4. Ben 10
5. Chowder
6. Johnny Test
7. Teen Titans
8. Total Drama
9. Codename: Kids Next Door
10. Courage The Cowardly Dog
11. Ed, Edd, and Eddy
12. The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy
13. Johnny Bravo
14. Justice League
15. Justice League: Unlimited
16. The Looney Tunes Show
17. OK K.O. Let's Be Heroes!
18. The PowerPuff Girls
19. Samurai Jack
20. Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated

Bro is so out of options that he needed to say "Justice League" two times

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

1. Adventure Time

Surprisingly never watched

2. Regular Show
3. The Amazing World of Gumball

Agreed

4. Ben 10

Which one?

5. Chowder

Okay ig

6. Johnny Test

No

7. Teen Titans
8. Total Drama
9. Codename: Kids Next Door
10. Courage The Cowardly Dog
11. Ed, Edd, and Eddy
12. The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy
13. Johnny Bravo

Agreed

16. The Looney Tunes Show

Simple peak

17. OK K.O. Let's Be Heroes!

Never watched, but pretend to do so

18. The PowerPuff Girls
19. Samurai Jack
20. Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated

100% Agreed