• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Unohana is stronger than Aizen and maybe Yamamoto CRT

Status
Not open for further replies.
3,566
1,919
I think Unohana should upscale their base states, but if we only accept Aizen im fine with that.

Now we currently already accept Unohana being stronger than everyone but Base Aizen and Yamamoto. I think they should be included in as well.

I wanna first tackle something i find wrong. "Aizen doesn't consider Unohana a threat, only Yamamoto and Zaraki's potential."

Aizen doesn't fear Unohana​

Okay? Zaraki is a blood thirsty maniac who would happily fight Aizen. Unohana on the other hand is a former blood thirsty maniac. She's not even allowed to fight and she only pretty much heals. Why would he be afraid of someone whom no longer fights and on top of that under the effects of KS? What's the difference between Yama and Unohana? Their Zanpakuto. It wouldn't matter if Yamamoto is under KS, his zanpakuto has a huge devastating range even in shikai. People for some reason scale Aizen to Yama's shikai and i dont know why. Yamamoto was only going to nuke Aizen because of how dangerous he was. He wanted to make sure he would be dead. Let's pretend somehow Aizen escapes Yama's grip, he could just run away. Or lets pretend Yama was never actually grabbing him, only sure he was. There could still be a chance he could still be around if Yama wasn't actually grabbing him. Aizen even if he runs away or wasnt being grabbed likely wouldn't escape the aoe that Yama was gunna inflict with his shikai attack. Yama was skeptical Aizen would even be able to cut him. So why would he scale to his shikai when Yama didnt even think Aizen would even be strong enough to cut his base?

Conclusion. He doesnt fear Unohana because she doesn't fight and under KS on top. Nor has the devasting aoe that Yama has that would make being under KS irrelevant. She didn't even attack him when he slashed Toshiro right in front of her. He fears Kenpachi potential because the guy throughout the series has been portrayed as immortal. Which is why he waited until he got actual immortality. Kenpachi isnt like other shinigami. He takes far more lethal attacks than they are able to. So lets say he and Aizen had evenish strength, Kenpachi's pseudo immortality would make him come out on top. Kenpachi isnt just a monster because hes strong, but he takes far more damage than most shinigami are capable. So it would make sense if he wanted actual immortality first. It literally states immortal body. For a reason. He wants to make sure his body wont give out in a contest of endurance. Which is what he knows a fight with Kenpachi would bring. Thus needs an immortal body.

Aizen is unequaled in soul society


Is where i call bs arrogance and proven wrong. Why is it proven wrong? Well for one, Yama is literally stronger than him. How are you unequaled, if Isshin, Anti-Hierro Yoruichi, and Kisuke are all treated as being your equals. And Yama on top is stronger than you. You literally say you're unequaled, but admit Kisuke as being your equal... How do we even allow such contradictions?

Yama was literally your superior, we all agree to this, you literally admit Kisuke as your equal after saying your shinigami powers were unequaled. Isshin, Yoruichi are also treated as his equals. I also found this on his profile about databooks comfirming it. Except you aren't stronger than everyone else. He's weaker than Yamamoto, called Kisuke his equal, and we can add two other people in that category. You're not unequaled, you aren't the strongest. You are stronger than the typical shinigami which Unohana is not. For some reason people act like Base Aizen is transcendent when it comes to other shinigami but he isn't. Only Chrysalis and up can upscale all shinigami like that. Plus Aizen is an arrogant person by nature. So we have arrogance, blatant lying, and contradictions. You might say "Well Aizen is stronger than everyone but them obviously" not how unequaled works. Nor is it the same as Unohana saying she is stronger than everyone because im including Yama in my statement, where as ppl auto assume yama is excluded with Aizens.

Yea no remove Unohana from his justification. Plus you might argue, well Yama is stronger than him so of course they aren't equal. Okay? I can just exclude Unohana from that as well. Unequaled means nobody can hold a candle to you and your power is without equal. Big contradiction, is a statement from an arrogant character, he straight up lied, and uhh contradiction.

Unohana is superior to their base forms​

Now during the Kenpachi fight Unohana says she is stronger than anyone, but him. Aizen is excluded from this and Yama and i dont really see why. Now i know we don't treat those captain stats as 100% accurate or rather we dont go entirely based off that. But since Unohana stated she is stronger than anyone but Kenpachi i think its fine to use it here. I did see in some profiles we use these sometimes not always. Unohana has a higher physical strength stat and their offense stat equal. I normally take these with a grain of salt unless contradicted in series. Unohana being > Aizen isnt contradicted. Its because of Aizen lying about being unequaled and nobody treating it as a contradiction despite calling Kisuke his equal and us accepting Kisuke as his equal. Which i do too btw.

Retsu Unohana: Offense: 100; Defense: 80; Mobility: 70; Kidou: 100; Intelligence: 100; Physical Strength: 90

Sōsuke Aizen: Offense: 100; Defense: 90; Mobility: 90; Kidou: 100; Intelligence: 100; Physical Strength: 80

Lets talk about that Kenpachi's potential Aizen was so afraid of. More than likely that potential is just Kid Kenpachi's potential. He fears how strong he used to be, and doesnt wanna bring out said potential until he got an immortal body. This is more likely what he is referring too backed up by Unohana saying only Kenpachi is stronger than her. By that she means Kid Kenpachi. The power she's trying to bring him back to. So more than likely the potential people are actually referring to is Kid Kenpachi's power, as Unohana says only he surpasses her. It would make sense if they meant reiatsu/ap wise as the two of them are basically brutes. Kenpachi has always been a brute. Why would it not assume anything other than how strong his power is Ap/reiatsu wise.

Even if i accept Unohana as superior it doesn't mean i think she would beat them. Unohana understands the fear and danger behind KS. She even hyped up Ichigo's reiatsu meaning she must not find base Aizen's reiatsu particularly impressive. Unohana has always been afraid of KS. She is inferior to that. Aizen using KS. And since she's already under it she knows she doesnt stand a chance. Yamamoto i think is superior to her as an overall combatant. Everyone knows he has one of the strongest Zanpakuto in the entire soul society. I think she's inferior to his bankai. I think Unohana accepts their superiority due to a zanpakuto diff. Aizen has KS and Yama has one of the strongest zanpakutos stated multiple times. This is what i called carried by the zanpakuto. They are def strong without it, but a difference of zanpakuto is the only thing making them superior. In Aizen's case its purely hax, in Yama's case its the aoe and his shikai and bankai likely giving him amps far superior to what we accept for current bankai multipliers. Even Arc agrees Yama's bankai amp is likely far beyond 10x but we cant prove this

Plus she's not a combatant. It be reasonable to assume she's not included for that alone. Even though i contradicted Aizen being unequaled. So lets assume i agree with it (I dont) the fact shes not even a fighter is reason enough to exclude her. But i think Aizen being unequaled is so contradicted i dont even think i need go that far xD


lets go a step further. Proof of Aizen's arrogance, is during the final fight with Ichigo. Ichigo is literally casually stomping him, and Aizen is still in disbelief by whats happening in front of him. Dude literally has a god complex. So why aren't we taking him being unequal as nothing more than bs? Bc Databook goes the extra mile and says hes stronger than anyone else? Which is even worse btw. Saying you dont have an equal and being stronger than everyone is two entirely different things. The latter makes it even worse.

Aizen "fears" Unohana (Not really)​

Personally i dislike this mindset ppl have but it does have some logical thinking. For example Unohana is the perfect target to kill or at least wound. For one, she is their best healer. Taking her out is an assured victory. And not only that, she is a witness. Witness to the slaughter of central 46 and cutting down of Toshiro and Hinomari assuming Unohana senses her reiatsu. Plus, she's under KS. She's a free target no? I dont think he fears her, i do think he is cautious. This isnt my main argument i could care less if it gets discarded.

Theoretical multiplier​

So we know Kenpachi gets stronger each times he comes near death. Well he went from needing two hands to beat Nnoitra because one would not be enough, to seeing Yammy espada number 0 as an annoyance/nuisance. Idk about y'all, but to go from needing to two hands for Espada 5 to seeing Yammy as a nuisance is a pretty big jump. Like an unfathomable jump i say. And that's only off a single "zenkai" boost. Now, im not saying every single time he loses/dies it will be that much of an amp every single time. But it is something to note. Unohana killed Kenpachi a countless amount of times. And each time, he gets stronger. Yet i just pointed out how almost losing to Nnoitra, to seeing Yammy as fodder is a pretty big increase in power. We dont know how many times she killed him, but we know its alot. And if he got that much stronger EACH time would be insane. Now i don't think each death boosted him up much, but you cant rule it out. So basically what im saying is, if she could kill him countless times, which could easily be several dozens to even hundreds, would mean her strength is literally absurd. Granted not all her kills were due to raw strength, she's also an expert with the sword so its a mix of strength diff and skill diff. So imo this theoretical multiplier also puts her above Aizen esp since they are on the same tier atm unless you upscale him which i don't think you should.


Unohana is superior to Aizen by both her statement, fearing Kenpachi's potential which most likely is referring to his Kid potential due to Unohana's statement. The only contradiction is Aizen being unequal which is wrong asf, and if its right (its not) it would make sense not to include someone we know for sure isnt a combatant anymore. Plus Unohana having same Offensive stat, and more physical strength. Not a contradiction in this case. You also have Unohana hyping up Ichigo's reiatsu so she must not think a shit load of it is needed for Aizen just someone strong and not affected by KS. Plus she seen first hand how strong he was. Unohana isnt impressed with Aizen only KS. And her ridiculous theoretical multiplier. I understand its not calcable, im just saying its crazy. Doesnt view her as a threat because she literally doesn't fight, and didn't when she had the chance. He knows her intentions, but respects her enough to not force anything if he doesnt need to

Note: My only issue with my argument is doesn't specify which Aizen or any. So you can easily assume she is stronger than Muken Aizen, or we could use common sense and think shinigami Aizen. Regardless i think a Yamamoto should be done here and assume she is auto excluded from his statements due to not being a fighter anymore thus not considered. Even the damn arrancar didnt attack her because he knew she was just a healer. Even if he knew she was strong, its just goes to show how her perception is treated.

Don't be in a rush to close this please as i might potentially have to wait a day at most due to circumstances


Agree
: Hasch

Disagree: Myxenete (For Yama), LordGriffin1000, Arc7Kuroi, Guacamolefletcher

Neutral: Myxenete (For Aizen)
 
Last edited:
What's the difference between Yama and Unohana? Their Zanpakuto
What reason do we have to assert the only difference between Yama and Unohana is their Zanpakuto? Yamamoto is pretty much given JJK's Satoru Gojo's treatment when it comes to comparing his strength to the other Shinigami, the difference between them is not just his Zanpakuto, As noted on his profile Yama is the strongest and the statement goes out of it's way to mention that it's not just about him possesing the strongest Zanpakuto
Now during the Kenpachi fight Unohana says she is stronger than anyone, but him. Aizen is excluded from this and Yama and i dont really see why.
Yama is dead and Aizen is sealed and imprisoned when this takes place there's zero reason to assert this has anything to do with them especially when referencing Aizen at this point in time is to him with the Hogyoku and 13 blades confirms Yama as the strongest and we also know Yama kept her and the 11 other original captains in line by force
Retsu Unohana: Offense: 100; Defense: 80; Mobility: 70; Kidou: 100; Intelligence: 100; Physical Strength: 90

Sōsuke Aizen: Offense: 100; Defense: 90; Mobility: 90; Kidou: 100; Intelligence: 100; Physical Strength: 80
Mistranslation, "physical strength" refers to stamina here, and it was agreed upon in this thread, to scale them off their attack and spiritual pressure stats for the soul soceity arc (Unohana, Aizen and Yama are all 200 there)
She even hyped up Ichigo's reiatsu meaning she must not find base Aizen's reiatsu particularly impressive
She hyped up Ichigo's spiritual power as being comparable to hers at half strength, Unohana thinkingsomeone with double her strength can bring diwn Aizen doesn't scale her above Aizen
Is where i call bs arrogance and proven wrong. Why is it proven wrong? Well for one, Yama is literally stronger than him. How are you unequaled, if Isshin, Anti-Hierro Yoruichi, and Kisuke are all treated as being your equals. And Yama on top is stronger than you. You literally say you're unequaled, but admit Kisuke as being your equal... How do we even allow such contradictions?
Completly reasonable that this should be removed from his justification, it's just blatantly wrong

Hard disagree on Yamamoto but I think I'm neutral on the Aizen stuff for now
 
What reason do we have to assert the only difference between Yama and Unohana is their Zanpakuto?
In terms of KS countering i mean. He's better suited against it as he can just nuke a wide range even without bankai. Where as Unohana only defense against it as merely healing herself. By the comparison what i meant was, say they were comparable in strength or say Unohana is superior, the difference is ryujin jakka would pose a much greater threat to Aizen if both were under KS. Thats why there is wonderweiss. His Zanpakuto a problem. Unohana seems like she got some range in her bankai but nothing to write home about. Where as Yamamoto could just nuke a wide range without even going bankai.
Yamamoto is pretty much given JJK's Satoru Gojo's treatment when it comes to comparing his strength to the other Shinigami, the difference between them is not just his Zanpakuto, As noted on his profile Yama is the strongest and the statement goes out of it's way to mention that it's not just about him possesing the strongest Zanpakuto
I know hes stronger than them without it, im saying that difference in zanpakuto is the only reason i think he would beat Unohana and pose a greater threat to Aizen. Esp since shes not even a combatant anymore. Remember Wonderweiss was created purely just to seal his Ryujin Jakka. It even trapped Aizen, Gin, and Tosen in a cage of fire. His sword definitely matters.
Yama is dead and Aizen is sealed and imprisoned when this takes place there's zero reason to assert this has anything to do with them especially when referencing Aizen at this point in time is to him with the Hogyoku and 13 blades confirms Yama as the strongest and we also know Yama kept her and the 11 other original captains in line by force
Yes but it more than likely referring to them. Unohana is implying that Kenpachi with his full power was superior to pretty much everybody. That only reason he barely won barely lost against certain ppl is due to his shackles. I can understand Yama being dead, i dont think it should exclude Aizen just because hes sealed. He would still pose a threat to the soul society if he were ever released. Azashiro, Aizen, and Yama should all be included though yama being dead i can understand that
Mistranslation, "physical strength" refers to stamina here, and it was agreed upon in this thread, to scale them off their attack and spiritual pressure stats for the soul soceity arc
No idea honestly, but them all being 200 means its closer than ppl think. People here have perception Base Aizen easily stomps her without ks and im not seeing it
Completly reasonable that this should be removed from his justification, it's just blatantly wrong

Hard disagree on Yamamoto but I think I'm neutral on the Aizen stuff for now
Fair anyway i might have to wait until tomorrow
 
A couple things of brevity, as I’m not going to send bibles of text. You claim that Isshin, Armored Yoruichi, and Kisuke being Aizen level contradicts “unequaled in SOUL SOCIETY”, but it simply doesn’t, since by the time Aizen merging with the Hogyoku to surpass his limits none of those three were in soul society. So that’s a moot point.

Second, Aizen’s power isn’t inferior to Yamamoto’s perse, physically they’re very comparable. Where Yamamoto gets the advantage is with Ryuujin Jakka. So that isn’t an inherent contradiction either. Furthermore, Aizen is consistently stated by the narrator to be the strongest in soul society (not saying that he’s stronger than Bankai Yama), so there’s due preponderance of evidence that base to base, he’s packing up everyone else.

Meanwhile all your “evidence” for Unohana being above Aizen isn’t substantiated and is mere conjecture. You’re positing possibilities. The only time Unohana was given the order not to fight was when the Quincy attacked. But your logic is faulty anyway, since Zaraki was trapped in HM, so Zaraki technically couldn’t fight Aizen either during the same period of time you claim Unohana couldn’t fight Aizen.

End of the day, both Unohana and Aizen scale to the same value anyway as there is some degree of relativity between Yama physically, Aizen physically, and Unohana physically. But there is just far greater preponderance of evidence for Aizen being the pinnacle of Shinigami physical prowess than Unohana. So, I’m going to stay disagreeing.

If need be I’ll make more in depth posts later, but I don’t feel like arguing forever with you Raven.
 
A couple things of brevity, as I’m not going to send bibles of text. You claim that Isshin, Armored Yoruichi, and Kisuke being Aizen level contradicts “unequaled in SOUL SOCIETY”, but it simply doesn’t, since by the time Aizen merging with the Hogyoku to surpass his limits none of those three were in soul society. So that’s a moot point.
Geez talk about nitpicking. Obviously he means in general when it comes to shinigami in soul society or were once a part of. I mean isn't he upscaling Plus Yamamoto still contradicts.
Second, Aizen’s power isn’t inferior to Yamamoto’s perse, physically they’re very comparable.
No they aren't. Yama was gunna beat his ass with his fists. He even doubted Aizen could cut his base, and probably only did to provoke him/let him to counter KS. Which is already stated on his profile. The only reason he was gunna go overboard with killing Aizen was to guarantee his total destruction with no chance of escape. Not because he takes that much effort to kill, but rather hes worth that much effort to kill.
Where Yamamoto gets the advantage is with Ryuujin Jakka. So that isn’t an inherent contradiction either.
Same with Unohana Lol
If need be I’ll make more in depth posts later, but I don’t feel like arguing forever with you Raven.
I mean you put yourself in the situation you already know how this goes. I'll argue more when i feel like it as of right now i feel like chillin
 
Geez talk about nitpicking. Obviously he means in general when it comes to shinigami in soul society or were once a part of. I mean isn't he upscaling Plus Yamamoto still contradicts.
If he meant in general he wouldn’t have specified in soul society. Yama doesn’t contradict inherently as I explained.


No they aren't. Yama was gunna beat his ass with his fists. He even doubted Aizen could cut his base, and probably only did to provoke him/let him to counter KS. Which is already stated on his profile. The only reason he was gunna go overboard with killing Aizen was to guarantee his total destruction with no chance of escape. Not because he takes that much effort to kill, but rather hes worth that much effort to kill.
None of that is supported, Aizen tanked a Hado 90 from Yama and was able to pierce through Yama. Absolutely nothing states or shows Yama would give Aizen the hands. That’s headcanon.
 
OK, let's open this can of worms. Unohana > Yamamoto and Base Aizen is a terrible take.

No one, literally no one was using this to say Aizen > Yamamoto / Unohana

Did you read or even see the databook past this one picture of a piece of a scan? No. You'd know that it's actually about NON Base Aizen.


Now during the Kenpachi fight Unohana says she is stronger than anyone, but him. Aizen is excluded from this and Yama and i dont really see why
Because Yamamoto is already dead, Aizen isn't really a shinigami, and it's likely contextually talking about normal shinigami.

You'd be concluding that Unohana > current Aizen, who is > Monster Aizen, and is a soul king level being. Obviously, that's not the case.

Unohana has a higher physical strength stat
another part of CRT lack of preparation. The raw kanji actually says 体力

体力 = stamina; endurance; physical strength; resilience; resistance to disease.

What do we know about Yamamoto? Even without a zanpakuto, he's >>>>> Most shinigami, so it's obviously not talking about his physical strength. Furthermore, with the recent TYBW stuff, he's shown to be just as strong as before. Now, what's the issue with Yamamoto's current state (as of the start of TYBW)? Lack of stamina. He can only use his bankai for a bit, and is already exhausted after fighting Royd Lloyd. Hence, this is clearly in reference to stamina.
Aside from stamina being the primary meaning, that's literally all we need to prove she's not physically stronger than Yamamoto. Taking in context too, Sui Feng herself is given a 100 stat for this. Soi fon is blatantly not stronger than Yamamoto physically. If they were to clash, she would get easily overpowered.

Plus Unohana having same Offensive stat
Now we should take the time to think about the stats in context:

攻撃力 = offensive power.
The list of people who have a 100 攻撃力 stat: Yamamoto, Aizen, Unohana, Sajin, Kenpachi. Sajin and Soul Society Kenpachi are not equals to Aizen. That's only supporting evidence for her being up there, but not up top.

So we know Kenpachi gets stronger each times he comes near death. Well he went from needing two hands to beat Nnoitra because one would not be enough, to seeing Yammy espada number 0 as an annoyance/nuisance. Idk about y'all, but to go from needing to two hands for Espada 5 to seeing Yammy as a nuisance is a pretty big jump. Like an unfathomable jump i say. And that's only off a single "zenkai" boost. Now, im not saying every single time he loses/dies it will be that much of an amp every single time. But it is something to note. Unohana killed Kenpachi a countless amount of times. And each time, he gets stronger. Yet i just pointed out how almost losing to Nnoitra, to seeing Yammy as fodder is a pretty big increase in power. We dont know how many times she killed him, but we know its alot. And if he got that much stronger EACH time would be insane. Now i don't think each death boosted him up much, but you cant rule it out. So basically what im saying is, if she could kill him countless times, which could easily be several dozens to even hundreds, would mean her strength is literally absurd. Granted not all her kills were due to raw strength, she's also an expert with the sword so its a mix of strength diff and skill diff. So imo this theoretical multiplier also puts her above Aizen esp since they are on the same tier atm unless you upscale him which i don't think you should.
This is headcanon, and doesn't belong in a thread.

Even if i accept Unohana as superior it doesn't mean i think she would beat them. Unohana understands the fear and danger behind KS. She even hyped up Ichigo's reiatsu meaning she must not find base Aizen's reiatsu particularly impressive. Unohana has always been afraid of KS. She is inferior to that. Aizen using KS. And since she's already under it she knows she doesnt stand a chance. Yamamoto i think is superior to her as an overall combatant. Everyone knows he has one of the strongest Zanpakuto in the entire soul society. I think she's inferior to his bankai. I think Unohana accepts their superiority due to a zanpakuto diff. Aizen has KS and Yama has one of the strongest zanpakutos stated multiple times. This is what i called carried by the zanpakuto. They are def strong without it, but a difference of zanpakuto is the only thing making them superior. In Aizen's case its purely hax, in Yama's case its the aoe and his shikai and bankai likely giving him amps far superior to what we accept for current bankai multipliers. Even Arc agrees Yama's bankai amp is likely far beyond 10x but we cant prove this
This, again, is headcanon unsupported by the databooks. 13 Blades is loud and clear in saying that Yamamoto is the strongest Shinigami, even with one arm (for whatever that's worth). Yamamoto is stated to be the strongest shinigami a bajillion times, regardless.
 
OK, let's open this can of worms. Unohana > Yamamoto and Base Aizen is a terrible take.


No one, literally no one was using this to say Aizen > Yamamoto / Unohana
Arc literally did minus Yama
Did you read or even see the databook past this one picture of a piece of a scan? No. You'd know that it's actually about NON Base Aizen.
My guy its in base aizen's justification. Go at whoever added it. If you are correct, thats excellent though. It would be a fake justification
This is headcanon, and doesn't belong in a thread.
The only headcanon is putting a gauge on how much he got stronger each time, but the fact he does isnt headcanon. If she killed him countless times it would make her monstrously strong as i stated. People never wanna think they just want everything spoonfed then just scream headcanon
 
Last edited:
Because Yamamoto is already dead, Aizen isn't really a shinigami, and it's likely contextually talking about normal shinigami.

You'd be concluding that Unohana > current Aizen, who is > Monster Aizen, and is a soul king level being. Obviously, that's not the case.
Yet when she says stronger than anyone but him, she is implying a past Zaraki. Not current. Meaning it should include Yama and Base aizen as she also encountered them
 
Yet when she says stronger than anyone but him, she is implying a past Zaraki. Not current. Meaning it should include Yama and Base aizen as she also encountered them
By your logic it’s include Bankai Yama since Unohana was alive for that. Yet the databooks (13 Blades) state that at the beginning of the TYBW Yamamoto was strongest in the Gotei 13. Additionally, Yhwach is the only person who can wield Yama’s Bankai power. Meaning Bankai Yama > Gremmy’s full power ~ ShiKen > Unohana. For Yama it means Bankai Yama > Bankai Unohana. Which contradicts your point. As Guac said, she’s clearly not including Yama or Aizen. Any way you slice this pie, Unohana is only above Yama by cherry picking statements to fit an inconsistent mold.
 
By your logic it’s include Bankai Yama since Unohana was alive for that. Yet the databooks (13 Blades) state that at the beginning of the TYBW Yamamoto was strongest in the Gotei 13. Additionally, Yhwach is the only person who can wield Yama’s Bankai power. Meaning Bankai Yama > Gremmy’s full power ~ ShiKen > Unohana. For Yama it means Bankai Yama > Bankai Unohana. Which contradicts your point. As Guac said, she’s clearly not including Yama or Aizen. Any way you slice this pie, Unohana is only above Yama by cherry picking statements to fit an inconsistent mold.
No? Im only arguing base which has nothing to do with that entire paragraph. I literally said Yama has a zanpakuto advantage before
 
No? Im only arguing base which has nothing to do with that entire paragraph
🤦‍♂️ then reread the paragraph cuz I address the notion of cherry picking what it refers to.

“I was stronger than anyone, anyone except you” does in no way specify “I was stronger than base Yamamoto but not Bankai Yamamoto”. Like you’re trying to assert. Regardless, omniscient narrators calling Yamamoto the strongest captain at the start of the TYBW >>> Unohana’s headcanon of being the strongest even if we take her statement to include Yama.
 
🤦‍♂️ then reread the paragraph cuz I address the notion of cherry picking what it refers to.

“I was stronger than anyone, anyone except you” does in no way specify “I was stronger than base Yamamoto but not Bankai Yamamoto”. Like you’re trying to assert. Regardless, omniscient narrators calling Yamamoto the strongest captain at the start of the TYBW >>> Unohana’s headcanon of being the strongest even if we take her statement to include Yama.
Because Kenpachi has always been a monster despite not knowing the name of his sword. She wasnt in Bankai when they fought. So being stronger than anyone from only a strength standpoint isnt a contradiction since Kenpachi has always been about strength and she matched that. Yama just has a better zanpakuto along with Aizen. She would overpower their base
 
Because Kenpachi has always been a monster despite not knowing the name of his sword. She wasnt in Bankai when they fought. So being stronger than anyone from only a strength standpoint isnt a contradiction since Kenpachi has always been about strength and she matched that. Yama just has a better zanpakuto along with Aizen. She would overpower their base
Yeah but we are talking AP here. Your ability to punch hard and deal damage comes from more than your muscular strength. It comes from your reiatsu and Reiryoku as well. So Unohana can have say stronger muscles than anyone as you say while still not being stronger in terms of scaling.
 
Yeah but we are talking AP here. Your ability to punch hard and deal damage comes from more than your muscular strength. It comes from your reiatsu and Reiryoku as well. So Unohana can have say stronger muscles than anyone as you say while still not being stronger in terms of scaling.
Because, as i said carried by his zanpakuto or rather it meets him halfway. Its entirely possible for her to mean stronger than him in terms of sword to sword combat but weaker than the soul society destroying power of his bankai. Even you agree the amp for his bankai is likely above 10x which would make his sword greater than most. Idk why you think she cant be just stronger in sword fighting and strength and be weaker than his zanpakuto which grants him power far greater than the typical zanpakuto. Yama isnt just the strongest due to his base state, he has a zanpakuto to match. So even if she is superior/stronger it wouldnt mean a superior shinigami overall. And her not being a fighter anymore can also shield her from such statements. She doesnt have to say stronger than his base, weaker than his bankai. Its implied that kid kenpachi physically/AP > everybody. Because Kenpachi is quite literally only known for strength. Anyway i gtg
 
Well its wrong the anime went out their way to show why Unohana was the best at that. Databooks arent 100% accurate proven many times. Anyway i gotta go
 
Last edited:
None of that is supported, Aizen tanked a Hado 90 from Yama and was able to pierce through Yama. Absolutely nothing states or shows Yama would give Aizen the hands. That’s headcanon.

Not true, Base Yama has far and away better feats and the tacit acknowledgement of Aizen being weaker, the only way to argue for Aizen is with KS.
-Blitzing Royd
-Containing RJ focused power
-Punching WW into dust with hakuda

Compared to Unohana, she is stronger than Yama except for RJ fire, because she is the kenpachi which technically means the strongest in terms of a sword fight.
 
I don't see why anyone would think Aizen is stronger than Yamamoto when he went out of his way to not fight him in base tbf

Also Yamamoto could fight two senior captains at once without a hogyoku.

And is basically stated stronger reiatsu in CFYOW.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top