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UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD

Imaginym said:
Dess and Mayor Holiday AREN'T reindeer
Three pieces of evidence:

  1. As this Wiki says, Noelle, Dess and Rudy existed in the Undertale universe. Sans says, "the antelered girl and her big sis," suggesting, again, as the Wiki puts it, that Dess did not have antlers. This says something about Mayor Holiday as well, because, by inheritance, if both her mum AND dad have antlers, she should have them too. Rudy has antlers, so Mayor Holiday likely doesn't.
  2. Rudy claims that Noelle's mum slapped him. This might be getting too deep into technicalities, but is 'slapping' a possible action with hooves?
  3. Diamond Boy in Sans' shop mentions the 'hooved girl.' Again, as though no-one else matches the description. I'm sure no-one else would call the mayor a 'hooved girl' even if she did have hooves, but it would still be confusing if he used that term while a well-known female Hometown citizen had hooves. And although Dess is missing right now (but still alive, I'm sure), it would be odd to use that term if someone else known with that description - the mayor's daughter - recently lived there.
Click to expand...
1. Reindeers shed antlers, and idk if this actually implies she doesn't have antlerd
2. Noelle has actual human looking hands, we know this from her ACT animation, as well as her other ones
3. Noelle comes to the store a lot, so it makes sense
 
Ti58 said:
1. Reindeers shed antlers, and idk if this actually implies she doesn't have antlerd
Click to expand...
& yet Dess lacked antlers at a time when Noelle had them, despite it typically being a seasonal thing?
Ti58 said:
2. Noelle has actual human looking hands, we know this from her ACT animation, as well as her other ones
Click to expand...
Fair.
Ti58 said:
3. Noelle comes to the store a lot, so it makes sense
Click to expand...
I guess it is possible it's considered unambiguous who it refers to, by that character at least, due to how often Noelle goes to the shop.
(& Dess may've been gone for years when the line is uttered, if "Diamond Boy" even knew who Dess was to begin with.)
Ti58 said:
Also the Knight is probably quite strong, but we obviously don't know how strong
Click to expand...
I mean, I agree with you, but it feels so likely to be true that it goes without saying.
(Inb4 we're laughing at ourselves for this in the future when it turns out we were wrong, lol.)
 
Imaginym said:
& yet Dess lacked antlers at a time when Noelle had them, despite it typically being a seasonal thing?
Click to expand...
Noelle is trans Idk, maybe. But honestly I don't think that sans line necessarily implies Dess doesn't have antlers.
Imaginym said:
I guess it is possible it's considered unambiguous who it refers to, by that character at least, due to how often Noelle goes to the shop.
(& Dess may've been gone for years when the line is uttered, if "Diamond Boy" even knew who Dess was to begin with.)
Click to expand...
yeah, in fact it's actually confirmed she has been missing for years as she was already missing when the spelling bee happened
Imaginym said:
I mean, I agree with you, but it feels so likely to be true that it goes without saying.
(Inb4 we're laughing at ourselves for this in the future when it turns out we were wrong, lol.)
Click to expand...
I mean Jevil says the Knight is stronger than us. So there's that.

if Oblivion theory turns out to be true the Knight could even scale to 2-B
 
Ti58 said:
also btw the Mayor probably is not 8-B that'd be unreasonable, i really doubt she could just destroy a city block
Click to expand...
update: nevermind, Pap and sans (implied to be able to use interdimensional travel via that machine in sans' workshop and implied to be originally from the Deltarune universe) are 8-B and 9-A. So I guess it's not that unreasonable.
 
Ti58 said:
I mean Jevil says the Knight is stronger than us. So there's that.
Click to expand...
DOES he?
  • UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KIDS CANNOT HAVE SUCH A PLEASANT DREAM.
  • FROM NOW, A NIGHTMARE WILL AWAKEN IN YOUR HEARTS.
  • IN THE SHADOW OF THE KNIGHT'S HAND...
  • LIGHTNERS, CAN YOU STOP IT?


It's not the most unambiguous, direct language.
To its credit, Jevil does say yet stronger, but this could refer to Queen, or mean stronger than Jevil himself, as they just fought him.
& The Knight is opening Dark Fountains, yet so far, has kept hidden from the protagonists, only being known to them by second hand info. Unless it wants us closing the fountains it's working to open, not stopping us is a strange choice if it's stronger, especially enough so to be endgame level.

Having too many Dark Fountains open at once could bring about The Roaring, & the criteria to open one seem to be willpower & being a Lightner, so you don't need to be strong to do that.

Meaning if The Knight's goal is The Roaring, they don't need to be stronger than The Delta Warriors, & avoiding a fight is reasonable in that case, too.

I don't think it's certain they're stronger than the party.
Ti58 said:
if Oblivion theory turns out to be true the Knight could even scale to 2-B
Click to expand...
I don't remember all the details of Oblivion Theory, or how the scaling for that would work, but seems true!
 
Imaginym said:
DOES he?
  • UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KIDS CANNOT HAVE SUCH A PLEASANT DREAM.
  • FROM NOW, A NIGHTMARE WILL AWAKEN IN YOUR HEARTS.
  • IN THE SHADOW OF THE KNIGHT'S HAND...
  • LIGHTNERS, CAN YOU STOP IT?


It's not the most unambiguous, direct language.
To its credit, Jevil does say yet stronger, but this could refer to Queen, or mean stronger than Jevil himself, as they just fought him.
& The Knight is opening Dark Fountains, yet so far, has kept hidden from the protagonists, only being known to them by second hand info. Unless it wants us closing the fountains it's working to open, not stopping us is a strange choice if it's stronger, especially enough so to be endgame level.

Having too many Dark Fountains open at once could bring about The Roaring, & the criteria to open one seem to be willpower & being a Lightner, so you don't need to be strong to do that.

Meaning if The Knight's goal is The Roaring, they don't need to be stronger than The Delta Warriors, & avoiding a fight is reasonable in that case, too.

I don't think it's certain they're stronger than the party.
Click to expand...
he says that "YOU'RE FAST, FAST, STRONG, STRONG". So he definitely means stronger than Delta warriors. Also it seems like here he's saying that the Queen will return and hell's roar will bubble from the DEPTHS because of the Knight's hand drifting forward

I also do think that the Knight has other goals than just the Roaring. They opened a fountain concidentally next to another one where there's a guy who knows lots of things about that kind of stuff and also just seems to open fountains in the rooms the Delta Warriors go to. There are multiple possible explanations for this though, they could be doing this to get the Lightner trio to open the fountains themselves for example.
Imaginym said:
I don't remember all the details of Oblivion Theory, or how the scaling for that would work, but seems true!
Click to expand...
yeah
 
Ti58 said:
he says that "YOU'RE FAST, FAST, STRONG, STRONG". So he definitely means stronger than Delta warriors. Also it seems like here he's saying that the Queen will return and hell's roar will bubble from the DEPTHS because of the Knight's hand drifting forward
Click to expand...
So what makes it certain he means The Knight & not Queen, or that he means Queen AND The Knight, if you'll forgive my asking?
Ti58 said:
I also do think that the Knight has other goals than just the Roaring. They opened a fountain concidentally next to another one where there's a guy who knows lots of things about that kind of stuff and also just seems to open fountains in the rooms the Delta Warriors go to. There are multiple possible explanations for this though, they could be doing this to get the Lightner trio to open the fountains themselves for example.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
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