UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD

[Ti58]

clam girl is also grey and doesn't talk about Gaster (she talks about Deltarune though)

And everything Monster Kid Goner says applies to the FUN events. If you don't get the right fun value, they don't exist. Everything functions perfectly without them though.

ALTHOUGH you might be right, on https://deltarune.com/egg page Noelle says that she doesn't remember the name of the egg and the author of the mysterious letter from the Valentine Newsletter who may or may not be Gaster says "YES, IT'S QUITE IRONIC, BUT I MIGHT HAVE FORGOTTEN"

But also one of the Gaster followers implied Asgore remembered how brilliant Gaster was and that's why it took him so long to pick a new royal scientist

 

[StrymULTRA]

clam girl is also grey and doesn't talk about Gaster (she talks about Deltarune though)

This is true.

And everything Monster Kid Goner says applies to the FUN events. If you don't get the right fun value, they don't exist. Everything functions perfectly without them though.

Perhaps. Wanna more solid evidence for NEP tho.

ALTHOUGH you might be right, on https://deltarune.com/egg page Noelle says that she doesn't remember the name of the egg and the author of the mysterious letter from the Valentine Newsletter who may or may not be from Gaster says "YES, IT'S QUITE IRONIC, BUT I MIGHT HAVE FORGOTTEN"

Think this is pretty vague to be related to Goner Kid ngl.

But also one of the Gaster followers implied Asgore remembered how brilliant Gaster was and that's why it took him so long to pick a new royal scientist

Hence why his Type 5 Aspect for NEP is only a possibly.

 

[Ti58]

Tried to give my interpretation on Gaster. Any thoughts?

Yes, this is obviously meant to be kept as a sandbox, any attempt to make it in a profile should be instantly shut down obviously.

StrymULTRA/GasterSandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

Very tiny correction: Gaster's name isn't W. D. Gaster, it's W.D. Gaster, without the space between W. and D.

It looks like a space because "." in Undertale occupies the same place as all other characters. His name is likely WingDings Gaster

 

[Ti58]

This is true.

Perhaps. Wanna more solid evidence for NEP tho.

Think this is pretty vague to be related to Goner Kid ngl.


Hence why his Type 5 Aspect for NEP is only a possibly.

Yeah Goner Kid doesn't have to talk about Gaster

I assume his physiology might be similar to that of Giygas, but this is only because I like Gaster takes which are directly inspired by Giygas and I think Toby might also be drawing parallels between the two.

The two examples I sent (the egg and the letter, both of which might or might not be from Gaster) are more tied to Gaster himself than to Goner Kid tbh.

Makes sense.

 

[Ti58]

Though REDACTED makes me thing that Gaster is probably taking multiple forms, as pieces of himself are scattered.

What if both Mystery Man and REDACTED are Gaster's pieces?

redacted is locked behind a dogcheck, I don't think he's even canon. Unlike Gaster he also speaks in fully lowercase text and with an asterisk

 

[StrymULTRA]

redacted is locked behind a dogcheck, I don't think he's even canon. Unlike Gaster he also speaks in fully lowercase text and with an asterisk

split personalities :#

 

[StrymULTRA]

I assume his physiology might be similar to that of Giygas, but this is only because I like Gaster takes which are directly inspired by Giygas and I think Toby might also be drawing parallels between the two.

I do not think that using other franchises is exactly helpful if we're going to analyze those under a powerscaling lens, as only us are nerds who overlook details like these... Don't even think Toby even knows what Abstract Existence is.

 

[Ti58]

split personalities :#

redacted is dogchecked (and therefore likely not canon) and also most likely less important than mysteryman, as Mysteryman has an entire poem about him hidden in Deltarune's files and the man behind the tree exists, plus Mysteryman always gets erased from merch and replaced by something else, while redacted is on the UT vinyl

 

[Ti58]

I do not think that using other franchises is exactly helpful if we're going to analyze those under a powerscaling lens, as only us are nerds who overlook details like these... Don't even think Toby even knows what Abstract Existence is.

i mean it's a franchise that Deltarune and Undertale are heavily inspired by

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

 

[Ti58]

Speaking of Deltarune cosmology
What does the seal between the DEPTHS and the light world count as? Clearly it's not the third dimension unless you believe there's an ocean of darkness a few centimeters below Hometown which somehow doesn't sound likely to me.

There's also whatever sans and Papyrus might have used to travel from Deltarune to Undertale and the way Gaster's shattering caused for him to be present in Deltarune as well

 

[StrymULTRA]

while redacted is on the UT vinyl

Didn't know.

Speaking of Deltarune cosmology
What does the seal between the DEPTHS and the light world count as? Clearly it's not the third dimension unless you believe there's an ocean of darkness a few centimeters below Hometown which somehow doesn't sound likely to me.

Maybe it's a spatial separation like with Dragon Ball's Living World and Afterlife.

 

[Ti58]

Didn't know.

Maybe it's a spatial separation like with Dragon Ball's Living World and Afterlife.

what does that count as in the cosmology of that verse

 

[StrymULTRA]

what does that count as in the cosmology of that verse

Nothing.

 

[Ti58]

Nothing.

Oh

 

[Imaginym]

I’m surprised nobody has calced Undyne wielding a sword 10 times her size yet.

When did she do that?

Tried to give my interpretation on Gaster. Any thoughts?

Yes, this is obviously meant to be kept as a sandbox, any attempt to make it in a profile should be instantly shut down obviously.

StrymULTRA/GasterSandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

" but shattering his very essence into an endless number of pieces across time and space. "

Source that it was an endless number of pieces?

" However, the fact Gaster ever existed at all is never brought up except by several equally as mysterious individuals. "

Isn't he referred to indirectly as the previous Royal Scientist, by Alphys & others?

• Existence Erasure/Teleportation (Implied to have either erased or teleported away some of his followers. He's possibly Mystery Man, who teleports away when interacted with)

Why not a Possibly or a Likely? Also, for all we know, this was a projection of an image he dispelled, or a hallucination. The explanations you provided are likely, but they're not the only ones, & we have little indicating what they could be.

Speed: Unknown, possibly Omnipresent (Gaster is apparently shattered across all time and space, being stated to always listen

NLF, the dialogue says:

• Well, I needn't gossip.
• After all, it's rude to talk about someone who's listening.

It isn't stated that he's ALWAYS listening, & we don't know if why he's listening there -If the Follower is accurate- applies to all circumstances. Maybe Hotland is special, since it's where his great work, the CORE is, or he listens when one of his followers are present?

despite being unable to interact with anything, only be able to watch as the world goes on without him

Conjecture? Goner Kid's dialogue is as follows:

• Have you ever thought about a world where everything is exactly the same...
• Except you don't exist?
• Everything functions perfectly without you...
• Ha, ha... The thought terrifies me.
• ... [Talk again]
• [If holding an umbrella]
  • An umbrella...? But it's not raining.
  • Ha, ha...
  • You know, that does make me feel a little better about this.
  • Thank you.
  • Please forget about me.
    • Please don't think about this anymore. [Talk again]

It doesn't seem to be directly about Gaster, at best, he's alluding to what may be the case, or he's being a creepy weirdo, as is par for Gaster followers in-game, & speculating about himself not existing. Similarly, his dialogue doesn't really suggest Gaster is able to watch.
Especially if he IS suggesting Gaster doesn't exist, because a logical conclusion of not existing is not being able to perceive stuff. In context, he mentions knowing everything functions perfectly without you because he's thinking about what the world is like, not what it's like to be non-existent, I think.

Otherwise, I believe I'm fine with it, & I like it!

 

[Imaginym]

Speaking of Deltarune cosmology
What does the seal between the DEPTHS and the light world count as? Clearly it's not the third dimension unless you believe there's an ocean of darkness a few centimeters below Hometown which somehow doesn't sound likely to me.

There's what a few CM below the Light World? Source?

 

[Ti58]

There's what a few CM below the Light World? Source?

Dark Fountains have to come from somewhere y'know

 

[RinneItachi]

That's literally what is accepted on the profile, as I said.

I'm saying the profile is wrong.

It could be that he's narrating.

Could be. Very unlikely. Gaster has a weird manner of speaking but that's just on the point of being outright silly.

(Assuming it is indeed Gaster....)

If Gaster was in control, why say these things?

Cause he's the one controlling the program. He's hosting our stay and so when we want to edit our SAVE files we can only do it through him. The whole underlying gimmick of Deltarune is about control as well.

He makes a big deal of being connected when Deltarune is first run, so clearly he values some form of interface between himself & the SOUL.

Definitely, and I think that's part of the explanation.

Like, when copying to another file, he states "IT WILL BE SUBSUMED.".
That's a warning/cautioning; The phrasing implies confident knowledge of what will happen.
Or trying to copy an empty file. "IT IS BARREN AND CANNOT BE COPIED.".
If the copying action fails because the file is barren, there wouldn't be much reason to say that if he was experimenting alone, since it's phrased as though as it's already known info. (Not to mention it seems like fictional scientists, when acting on their own, often pursue new info, rather than rigorously going through all permutations as the scientific method might encourage. Gaster might actually be so thorough, but until we know otherwise, if such a trend is true, it could be presumed for him, too.)

Good points. But like there's a ton that can be derived from the exact context of "Gaster's" words here cause of how some parts are left vague.

Gaster is an experimenter, a scientist. He wouldn't need to warn himself if it's himself doing the experiments.

Well my point is that he's controlling it but that he's acting on our permission. We are the player in Gaster's experiment which he has control over, but he doesn't want to influence it directly, so he uses us as a medium. We don't control the SAVE files here, but we still choose what happens to them. In the same way we don't make a dish at a restaurant but we tell the chef what we want. He's effectively "serving" us.

There's also the overwriting when all files are the same dialogue, saying "WHAT AN INTERESTING BEHAVIOUR.".

Not to mention the cursor being the SOUL. What things are involved in each experiment in that file select is dictated by the choices of the cursor/SOUL, which isn't controlled by Gaster. (AFAIK.)
Why he wants/needs our help for that, IDK.

It is curious how some of it is phrased. Such as "BUT THERE WAS NOTHING LEFT TO COPY.". Feels kind of past tense. Meh, IDK.

Well he doesn't need our help imo. And yeah the phrasing is weird on purpose. But that's just Gaster. He's always talked in a funky and overly formal way.

Other curious stuff is for after copying -"THE DIVISION IS COMPLETE."- & if all 3 files are made the same, it says "PREPARATIONS ARE COMPLETE".
Is Gaster announcing this as though thinking it's our preparations?
Does he seek to have 3 identical files for some reason?

Way I see it he's just announcing to us that our demands have been met satisfyingly and that we're "good to go".

Copying a Save File divides it? Is it not a timeline? Is it some kind of simulation computational power?
& why is an EMPTY File barren?

Who knows.

I know from personal experience that you can beat Deltarune -At least as far as the end of Chapter 2- without Saving. (Although, IIRC, Jevil & Spamton are agony. & also those danged teacups.)
If you do that, your file is EMPTY.
Barren of what then? Determination exertion?
I suppose since it's a post-chapter-starting pre-completion menu, you can't be there having beaten with an unsaved-to, EMPTY file. There would have to be progress or you'd be at the regular menu, right? Chapter Select?

We have no idea rn p much. It'll prob get revealed.

Is the timeline like the Vessel, & artificially generated? Is that why the voice knows of Kris, Susie & Noelle? (If you name the Vessel the same as them, it says you're about to meet someone interesting, IIRC.) But then why no such reaction for Ralsei?

Good points. One of the many in the great number of spreading Ralsei theories. Def more to him.

Is Ralsei so tragically forgettable even to such a dedicated researcher? Is Gaster only concerning himself with informing about Lightners? Are Darkners somehow unknown to him?
Is the SOUL maybe somehow his means of getting info about Darkners/Dark Worlds? Or does he want Ralsei to be a surprise to us?

Ralsei is not forgettable to Gaster in the slightest, Gaster has mentioned him once before. Remember on the old versions of the Deltarune website discovered on the Wayback Machine, 2 different images appeared at different times. One reading "THIS NEXT EXPERIMENT WILL BE VERY, VERY, INTERESTING." and "THREE HEROES APPEARED, TO BANISH THE ANGEL'S HEAVEN." which is in direct reference to the prophecy that Ralsei himself explains to us in our first encounter. He definitely knows and considers Ralsei as Ralsei is no doubt instrumental to the story of the game, but for some reason is rather quiet about him as you mention. And we have no idea why.

 

[Omegabronic]

Monster Physiology (Undertale)

Monsters are one of the races which rules over the Earth alongside Humans in Undertale.[1] Unlike the latter, whose SOULs are independent from their body, and thus can persist after death, the Monsters' SOULs are much weaker given that they're linked to their body, thus when they die their SOUL...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Since amalgamates have DETERMINATION shouldn't they have the power of SAVE, LOAD and RESET as well? Like, i know they don't use it in game, but neither does Flowey due to Frisk having more DETERMINATION than them

 

[RinneItachi]

I disagree with him making the entire world of Deltarune. Like the light world wasn't made by Gaster or anything. I think he made DELTARUNE the executable file and also kinda the plot of Deltarune via the Legend.

The original file of Deltarune's download was named "SURVEY_PROGRAM", Gaster's Entry Number Seventeen text "THIS NEXT EXPERIMENT WILL BE VERY, VERY, INTERESTING." appearing on the original Deltarune website in addition to the many references of darkness in the entry, the trademarks to Deltarune and Undertale are owned by "Royal Sciences, LLC", Gaster is 99% definitely the one speaking to us about his new creation on Twitter before the releases of each chapter and even subtly references the pandemic in the second one further implying his knowledge of real world events, it is 99.9999999% definitely Gaster speaking to us at the start of Deltarune and helping us create a vessel, talking about us being connected. He also speaks to us in the download data for the original file as well.

Everything points to the game itself being literally made by Gaster canonically.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Monster Physiology (Undertale)

Monsters are one of the races which rules over the Earth alongside Humans in Undertale.[1] Unlike the latter, whose SOULs are independent from their body, and thus can persist after death, the Monsters' SOULs are much weaker given that they're linked to their body, thus when they die their SOUL...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Since amalgamates have DETERMINATION shouldn't they have the power of SAVE, LOAD and RESET as well? Like, i know they don't use it in game, but neither does Flowey due to Frisk having more DETERMINATION than them

That could also apply to Undyne, no? Don't think we have enough evidence to say that they pass the SAVE n LOAD threshold.

 

[Omegabronic]

redacted is locked behind a dogcheck, I don't think he's even canon. Unlike Gaster he also speaks in fully lowercase text and with an asterisk

He appears in merch tho..............if that has any value lol

 

[Omegabronic]

That could also apply to Undyne, no? Don't think we have enough evidence to say that they pass the SAVE n LOAD threshold.

There...........is a stated threshold?

 

[RinneItachi]

There is no directly known threshold. It's just said that whoever has the most can do it.

 

[Omegabronic]

I wonder if DETERMINATION has enough powers to be made a Verse Specific power page......huh

 

[RinneItachi]

I wonder if DETERMINATION has enough powers to be made a Verse Specific power page......huh

Determination has a ton of details people don't even know about and yeah it could get a page I've thought about doing it.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

We already kinda detail how DT affects monsters in the Amalgamates section of the Monster Physiology page.
Don't think we'll have enough users to get a Verse Specific power page if we don't count the Amalgamates.

We can of-course just remove em from the Monster Physiology page and put em on a DT page, but yeah

 

[Omegabronic]

We already kinda detail how DT affects monsters in the Amalgamates section of the Monster Physiology page.
Don't think we'll have enough users to get a Verse Specific power page if we don't count the Amalgamates.

Dunno why shouldn't they count tbh, technicaly we have more than 5 users already with all human souls + Frisk and Chara

 

[Imaginym]

Cause he's the one controlling the program. He's hosting our stay and so when we want to edit our SAVE files we can only do it through him. The whole underlying gimmick of Deltarune is about control as well.

Controlling the program that he sought out our connecting to.

Definitely, and I think that's part of the explanation.

Good points. But like there's a ton that can be derived from the exact context of "Gaster's" words here cause of how some parts are left vague.

Well my point is that he's controlling it but that he's acting on our permission. We are the player in Gaster's experiment which he has control over, but he doesn't want to influence it directly, so he uses us as a medium. We don't control the SAVE files here, but we still choose what happens to them. In the same way we don't make a dish at a restaurant but we tell the chef what we want. He's effectively "serving" us.

If Gaster wasn't doing this until he had our SOUL connected, which he seemed to want, that would imply he couldn't.
Ergo, even if he has the file system set up, he may not be able to operate it without a SOUL's power to exert the actions.

I don't think he has any more control over the SOUL then someone with a lightning rod connected to a power grid & some switches or whatever.
He might've made the save file system, but he can't do anything with it without the SOUL's power, which he can't control.
The SOUL is something he connected to because he needs its power.

Well he doesn't need our help imo. And yeah the phrasing is weird on purpose. But that's just Gaster. He's always talked in a funky and overly formal way.

Speaking of weird phrasing, I wonder if Water Theory is relevant to this.

IIRC, the Goner Maker's background is named after water, &/or uses a water texture. There's an, IIRC, somehow Gaster-associated sound named after the ocean in the files, & of course, there's all of Onion-san's stuff about hearing weird things from the sea.
Considering the bunker is likely underground, I wonder.

Anyway, copying to an empty file gives "THE DIVISION IS COMPLETE." & when selecting to copy, there's "CHOOSE THE TARGET FOR THE REFLECTION." (Although, trying to copy to an identical file gives "IT IS IMMUNE TO ITS OWN IMAGE.".)

You can divide water, & it has a reflective surface.... Maybe it's a stretch, though.

Way I see it he's just announcing to us that our demands have been met satisfyingly and that we're "good to go".

Declaring demands are met, as though an ordered task is done, by saying preparations are complete? Preparations imply something further is to be done.
Could it really just be Gaster speaking weirdly?

Good points. One of the many in the great number of spreading Ralsei theories. Def more to him.

Ralsei is not forgettable to Gaster in the slightest, Gaster has mentioned him once before. Remember on the old versions of the Deltarune website discovered on the Wayback Machine, 2 different images appeared at different times. One reading "THIS NEXT EXPERIMENT WILL BE VERY, VERY, INTERESTING." and "THREE HEROES APPEARED, TO BANISH THE ANGEL'S HEAVEN." which is in direct reference to the prophecy that Ralsei himself explains to us in our first encounter. He definitely knows and considers Ralsei as Ralsei is no doubt instrumental to the story of the game, but for some reason is rather quiet about him as you mention. And we have no idea why.

Some theorizers have noted that the legend Ralsei gives us states "A PRINCE FROM THE DARK", which Lancer could also fulfill the criteria for.

Of course, this could also just be some kind of 4D Chess gameplay move by Ralsei. Toby does seem to like red herrings, no? & it does seem like Ralsei wants to hide something from us, so what if he put a false lead in it expecting us to think it's Lancer?

Although, since he doesn't seem fond of Lancer, Lancer is usually out of the way -Just quiet in Kris's pocket- & Ralsei has a more evident motive & seems to want our help, maybe Lancer being the one really will be the surprise twist.

Although, since I like Ralsei & don't like Lancer, I'd be fine with Lancer not being very relevant to stuff at all.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Dunno why shouldn't they count tbh, technicaly we have more than 5 users already with all human souls + Frisk and Chara

The Human SOULs just count as 1 page, but it does meet the criteria with Undyne and Flowey, ye. Forgot Chara lol

It should probably have a Specific Applications section for how it effects monsters,
Probably should also have three levels, one for those with DT who can't remember RESETS, one for those who can, and one for those who can TRUE RESET.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm saying the profile is wrong.

Make a CRT

 

[Chianli]

man, there is no baldi thread

 

[StrymULTRA]

Dunno why shouldn't they count tbh, technicaly we have more than 5 users already with all human souls + Frisk and Chara

Determination doesn't even have enough abilities tbh.

It should have at least 10, and the fact that there are very few users who actually did display its fullest capabilities doesn't help .

 

[RinneItachi]

Make a CRT

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Determination doesn't even have enough abilities tbh.

It should have at least 10, and the fact that there are very few users who actually did display its fullest capabilities doesn't help .

Taking the Amalgamates powers into account would definitely get it to 10 abilities tho
Peak DT probably also has the most users with Frisk, Asriel, Chara and the Player

 

[RinneItachi]

Determination doesn't even have enough abilities tbh.

It should have at least 10, and the fact that there are very few users who actually did display its fullest capabilities doesn't help .

Let's list them;

Statistics amplification.

Immortality types 3, 4, and (sort of) 8

Healing

Time manipulation (reversal)

Creation (Frisk could create physical objects during the Asriel fight)

Limited acausality type 1 (only in memories)

Limited soul manipulation

Existence erasure resistance

Soul manipulation resistance

In terms of both versatility and known details I'd argue Determination would suffice for a page.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Taking the Amalgamates powers into account would definitely get it to 10 abilities tbh

People do be talking shit then always be scared to actually do action smh...

Death Battle thread behavior right here.

Taking the Amalgamates powers into account would definitely get it to 10 abilities tho

Normally I'd be against but this exists...

Demon Physiology (Hazbin Hotel)

Demons are the supernatural denizens of Hell, whether they be native to the world or from the mortal realm, and make up the cast of Hazbin Hotel and its spin-off series Helluva Boss. They are ruled by the King of Hell Lucifer and live within the seven Rings of Hell, where they can stir up any...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Though would the Amalgamates even count? Most of their things are already covered from Monster Physiology, as they have things that normal DT doesn't allow (like invulnerability, density manip, etc.)

 

[RinneItachi]

People do be talking shit then always be scared to actually do action smh...

Death Battle thread behavior right here.

Brother a lot of people here just have genuinely better things to do. I'm not finna make a whole new thread to argue with strangers about whether it's Gaster or the Player that controls SAVE files in Deltarune, much less when there's still a ton left to be revealed about Gaster. Maybe when I was a teenager. Most I can do is talk in threads, particularly laid back discussions. Especially when I've had like maybe 3 civilized debates on this site. It usually takes not even a page for things to devolve into at least multiple ad hominin's in every message.

Normally I'd be against but this exists...

Demon Physiology (Hazbin Hotel)

Demons are the supernatural denizens of Hell, whether they be native to the world or from the mortal realm, and make up the cast of Hazbin Hotel and its spin-off series Helluva Boss. They are ruled by the King of Hell Lucifer and live within the seven Rings of Hell, where they can stir up any...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Though would the Amalgamates even count? Most of their things are already covered from Monster Physiology, as they have things that normal DT doesn't allow (like invulnerability, density manip, etc.)

Amalgamates abilities come from the effect that Determination usually has on Monster's which turns them into goopy nightmare creatures that are virtually indestructible. Undyne can only manage to make a complete transformation cause she's built different and made the Determination on HER OWN instead of being injected with it.

 

[StrymULTRA]

My problem with DT having a page is that there's also a lot of stuff that's indeed related to DT (like Undyne's Type 2 immortality), but doesn't apply to anything else but them, like...

Creation (Frisk could create physical objects during the Asriel fight)

This sounds Frisk exclusive.

Soul manipulation resistance

That's for like also monsters lol.

Healing

????

Brother a lot of people here just have genuinely better things to do. I'm not finna make a whole new thread to argue with strangers about whether it's Gaster or the Player that controls SAVE files in Deltarune, much less when there's still a ton left to be revealed about Gaster.

So you do admit that your points mostly rely on unfounded premises and assumptions here. Occam's Razor says it's the Player's doing, and there aren't really hard proofs for otherwise.