UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD

[StrymULTRA]

My guess is to put alternatives to showings that are super vague

Like "Existence Erasure/Teleportation" for when that follower just disapperared, you can argue either.

 

[StrymULTRA]

??? And the things that we know I put in the profile. Gaster being non-existent is referred to as a rumor. "They say he shattered across time and space.". They say.

I forgot that is only word by mouth in-verse and not something even 100% solid

 

[RinneItachi]

Okay but we already know he doesnt exist and is shattered across time and space (They literally say he is listening everything). You don't need a "possibly" on every single ability ever, yall are really exaggarete.

If something ain't confirmed then it ain't confirmed.

 

[ShionAH]

It is confirmed though.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Would Gaster even have this, btw?

Monster Physiology (Undertale)

Monsters are one of the races which rules over the Earth alongside Humans in Undertale.[1] Unlike the latter, whose SOULs are independent from their body, and thus can persist after death, the Monsters' SOULs are much weaker given that they're linked to their body, thus when they die their SOUL...

vsbattles.fandom.com

It is confirmed though.

Lil bro this ain't the Pokedex

 

[StrymULTRA]

If something ain't confirmed then it ain't confirmed.

Btw, uploaded HD versions of the Gaster sprites

MysteryMan and other possible appearance.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Plus, "shattered across space and time" doesn't exactly mean omnipresence in itself. There's that followers who LITERALLY HOLDS A PIECE OF GASTER IN HIS HAND.

That doesn't sound like "being everywhere and everywhen at once" tbh.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If something ain't confirmed then it ain't confirmed.

Btw, it came.

Note that it's basically the old profile, I only have changed some images around, otherwise is identical.

RinneItachi/GasterSandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Imaginym]

Yes but it's silly to think he'd set-up the Gaster storyline like this for a joke. I haven't seen a mysterious character get built up like this since...ever really. Only character who comes close in my mind is Bill Cipher.

I agree with your logic except for the comparison at the end.
"Close"? Perhaps I'm arguing from incredulity, as I'm 1 of those shameful sorts who watched Gravity Falls but never even tried to solve the cipher puzzles, preferring to listen to theorists but by sheer quantity of Easter Eggs in backgrounds, the myriads of complex riddles, the many obscure methods & complex solutions....

In methodology of hiding in secret/plain sight, but quantitatively (Am I using that term right?), I doubt Gaster is close in build-up to Bill.

Plus, "shattered across space and time" doesn't exactly mean omnipresence in itself. There's that followers who LITERALLY HOLDS A PIECE OF GASTER IN HIS HAND.

That doesn't sound like "being everywhere and everywhen at once" tbh.

So they claim.
How do we know it isn't Gaster-induced lunacy or some kind of spooky prank?
Heck, the followers are grayscaled versions of other NPCs, right? So we compare the sprites to check, no?
What is he holding that's the Gaster part, then? Because we can't see it, & he doesn't specify it. & all that's assuming he's being literal, rather than metaphorical. After all, another said Gaster was shattered across time & space. What if it's something like "We are holding a piece of him in our hearts, because we're loyal" or something? What if it's metaphorical?

 

[StrymULTRA]

What is he holding that's the Gaster part, then? Because we can't see it, & he doesn't specify it. & all that's assuming he's being literal, rather than metaphorical. After all, another said Gaster was shattered across time & space. What if it's something like "We are holding a piece of him in our hearts, because we're loyal" or something? What if it's metaphorical?

I mean the thing is literally being held in his hand and is talking, so I think it's pretty literal, or maybe not.

 

[ShionAH]

I mean the thing is literally being held in his hand and is talking, so I think it's pretty literal, or maybe not.

Thing in his hand is also there in his original sprite iirc, so its like his head is just on his hands. He isn't holding Gasters head or whatever you are implying

 

[StrymULTRA]

Thing in his hand is also there in his original sprite iirc, so its like his head is just on his hands. He isn't holding Gasters head or whatever you are implying

I mean that by "shattered across space and time" you can argue that his body was literally teared apart and spread across different areas of the space-time.

 

[ShionAH]

How would he be listening everything if he was just blown up.

 

[StrymULTRA]

How would he be listening everything if he was just blown up.

By Gastering/j.

Might be something like Monika who is still a NEP thing despite being erased on a space-time level.

 

[Imaginym]

Thing in his hand is also there in his original sprite iirc, so its like his head is just on his hands. He isn't holding Gasters head or whatever you are implying

I mean that by "shattered across space and time" you can argue that his body was literally teared apart and spread across different areas of the space-time.

So then it indeed isn't a part of Gaster, it's something inherent to the NPC, based on the non-Goner version? (In theory, Gaster COULD have had a piece of him launched to 1 of his followers, but....)

 

[StrymULTRA]

So then it indeed isn't a part of Gaster, it's something inherent to the NPC, based on the non-Goner version? (In theory, Gaster COULD have had a piece of him launched to 1 of his followers, but....)

Nah, it's pretty literal imo, he wouldn't just say such a lie in that seriousness.

 

[Ti58]

How does Deltarune cosmology work here? King for example is put at 9-A, but he is in reality an object brought to life with determination, more specifically a king of spades card. Darkners in general are less real than lightners (i mean yeah they're objects brought to life) and are treated as such, dark worlds are fiction within fiction, so are characters like Jevil actually 9-A or not?

My interpretation of Deltarune cosmology, by the way:

 

[StrymULTRA]

so are characters like Jevil actually 9-A or not?

You can, you know, check the profiles, right?

 

[Ti58]

You can, you know, check the profiles, right?

Jevil is just an example, what I said applies to literally every darkner in Deltarune. Lancer, Jevil, King, Queen, Virovirokun etc

 

[Ti58]

People also forget that Gaster, for what we know, literally cannot fight because he cannot interact with anything in reality after being reduced to a nonexistent mess shattered across space-time.

I mean he seems to be able to, somehow. The prophecy (which Gaster knows based on the 2016-2017 version of deltarune.com page) was literally foretold by "time and space", he directly speaks to the player on Twitter at the beginning of Deltarune and in some other instances, there's also whatever is going on with Mysteryman (and the man behind the tree) etc.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean he seems to be able to, somehow.

What.

The prophecy (which Gaster knows based on the 2016-2017 version of deltarune.com page) was literally foretold by "time and space", he directly speaks to the player on Twitter at the beginning of Deltarune and in some other instances, there's also whatever is going on with Mysteryman (and the man behind the tree) etc.

How is this meaning that he can punch things?

 

[Ti58]

What.

How is this meaning that he can punch things?

He seems to have a way of interacting with the world. If the man behind the tree is him, he can hand people eggs apperently, which probably means he probably can punch things.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Why not?

Also, we have some good Sandboxes for W. D. Gaster, right?

He is not exactly nonexistent if he could still be interacted and seen.

 

[Greatsage13th]

@Ti58 your pfp is cursed by the way.

 

[Ti58]

@Ti58 your pfp is cursed by the way.

w.d. cipher

 

[Ti58]

i have my own take on a Gaster profile thing by the way

 

[Chianli]

This Gaster fellow sure is on the oppisite end of the stick from bill.

 

[Imaginym]

Nah, it's pretty literal imo, he wouldn't just say such a lie in that seriousness.

Wouldn't they?

The Gaster followers do things like laughing as if insane, waxing philosophical about having never existed....

How does Deltarune cosmology work here? King for example is put at 9-A, but he is in reality an object brought to life with determination, more specifically a king of spades card. Darkners in general are less real than lightners (i mean yeah they're objects brought to life) and are treated as such, dark worlds are fiction within fiction, so are characters like Jevil actually 9-A or not?

My interpretation of Deltarune cosmology, by the way:

You put the SOUL outside the box, yet Gaster in the innermost box.

Are you saying Gaster is lower than the Darkworlders, despite interfacing with our metafictional representation, the SOUL?

 

[Ti58]

Wouldn't they?

The Gaster followers do things like laughing as if insane, waxing philosophical about having never existed....

You put the SOUL outside the box, yet Gaster in the innermost box.

Are you saying Gaster is lower than the Darkworlders, despite interfacing with our metafictional representation, the SOUL?

I've slighty changed it since then now it looks like this

The justification for Gaster being there was due to him maybe being in the DEPTHS layer, the darker than dark layer, which is where all darkness comes from (note that this is a theory), which is why the GONER MAKER backround uses the dark fountain texture and is called IMAGE_DEPTH like the place where Jevil says the Roaring bubbles from. But I never really meant for it to seem like Gaster was actually below darkners or whatever I just didn't think of a way to make the DEPTHS be darker than dark while being connected to reality kinda

 

[Ti58]

I also like the one wandydoodles made

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Are there really any more revisions we can make that aren't speculative before Chapters 3, 4, and 5 come out?

 

[Imaginym]

Are there really any more revisions we can make that aren't speculative before Chapters 3, 4, and 5 come out?

Is there anything for Intelligence? Stamina? Range? Lifting Strength?

Do we have their Standard &/or Optional Equipment listed out?

What about the unused items? Could try to make preliminary versions of those in Sandboxes?

Really trying to think of something. Months without even Newsletters are a little painful, no?

 

[Imaginym]

We could also try to make enemy profiles, I guess? But unsure folks want to invest in the fodder.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

snip

Best I can think of is the fact that there is an issue with the 8-A calc for Giga Queen and the Fun Gang's mecha. The fix will likely downgrade 'em to somewhere much lower than 8-A from my understanding. I think Psycho may or may not have done a recalc for it, but I am not sure.

Not much else to do with Deltarune until the 3rd chapter releases, I suppose.

 

[Imaginym]

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wouldn't they?

The Gaster followers do things like laughing as if insane, waxing philosophical about having never existed....

Look at the double standards...

"Shattered across space and time" (by hearsay): LITERAL OMNIPRESENCE, LEGIT

"I'm holding a piece of him right now" (we literally see it: NOOO, METAPHOR, CRYPTIC, NOT LITERALLY!

 

[Imaginym]

Look at the double standards...

"Shattered across space and time" (by hearsay): LITERAL OMNIPRESENCE, LEGIT

"I'm holding a piece of him right now" (we literally see it: NOOO, METAPHOR, CRYPTIC, NOT LITERALLY!

Do you mean that I've been applying double standards in that regard?

If so, I do apologize if I've bothered with you with that, but I didn't mean to; I have had no intention of applying double standards, whether I've been (unwittingly) doing so or not.

That said, to "play Devil's Advocate" as they say:

If to treat those two differently in regards to figurative vs literal qualification is a double standard, then I'd like to ensure I better know what the... erm... "standard standard" for the two is in this case. So....

Why would him being shattered across space & time be metaphorical?
Gaster was an incredible scientist, his work being, IIRC, unfathomable & revered by everyone, especially Alphys, the 2nd best scientist of the Kingdom, & whom took over in his absence.
Yet his works are considered beyond her scope, skills & understanding.

At that level, something that could shatter a being across time & space isn't unheard of. & thanks to Chara & Determination, talk of timelines & time & space all that isn't unprecedented within Undertale. That it was his own creation which did this, when Gaster fell into it, rather than some other machine of some other origin, I think reaffirms this.

• Alphys might work faster. But the old Royal Scientist, Doctor W.D. Gaster?
• One day, he vanished without a trace.
• They say he shattered across time and space.
• Ha ha... How can I say so without fear?
• I'm holding a piece of him right here.

This guy is speaking in rhyme, the thing he's holding doesn't look like the "Mystery Man" we associate with Gaster, it moves -Odd if it'd be a piece that's shattered- & looks like a head.

Hotland/NPCs

This clam-headed monster talks about how he came to Hotland from Waterfall specifically to get a drink. He comments if the protagonist carries a glass of water[1] and if they dump a few glasses of, or all of the water on the ground.[2][3] If the protagonist poured all of the water out of the...

undertale.fandom.com

Plus, his own dialogue asserts Gaster "vanished without a trace", so what's he doing having a trace, a piece, of Gaster? It seems like a self-contradiction to me.

& that assumes it's even possible to hold a piece of Gaster who was shattered in such a manner.

It may be of note that they disappear after their dialogue.

So this guy is talking in rhyme, his assertion of holding a piece of Gaster seems self-contradictory, the thing he's holding doesn't match the primary suspect for Gaster's appearance (Which doesn't move, unlike what he's holding.), & is a head, which would ostensibly be too important a piece to say you're holding a "piece".
Gaster was the royal scientist, & other dialogue claims he's listening; If you had his HEAD, still moving, of all pieces, you'd probably say you're holding his head, rather than "a piece".

& if it's not that head thing, then what? An invisible piece?

Being shattered across time & space feels like a more sci-fi statement that's meant to be genuine exposition & aligns with stuff featured in Undertale.
But holding a piece of him feels contradictory to a lot, & like it's meant to be a dramatic twist for surprise creepy in the dialogue.
Not to mention the possibility of a reverent follower of someone being likely they have a "piece" of the target of their idolization, when they in fact, do not have a literal piece of that being, because they feel a strong connection, especially an emotional one.

When these guys are, IIRC, canonically called Gaster Followers, like "followers" of a cult, & practically are, behaving in strange, creepy ways, spreading word of this dude -& then creepily disappearing, too.- who supposedly got "shattered across time and space" after falling into his own creation, I can believe that less science-y parts, especially creepy twists at the end of their dialogue might be a little bit less literal.

Also, forgive me if I did or gave the impression that I did, but I don't fully believe Gaster is omnipresent. At least, given what little info we have.
It's possible he is, but I don't think we have enough to support such a conclusion, currently.

We don't know how many pieces, what trajectory, what speed, when.... The scenario where he's asserting to be listening is just one, & from a follower I'd call reverent, given their dialogue:

• I understand why ASGORE waited so long to hire a new Royal Scientist.
• The previous one... Dr. Gaster.
• His brilliance was irreplaceable.
• However, his life... Was cut short.
• One day, his experiments went wrong, and...
• [Talk again]
  • Well, I needn't gossip.
  • After all, it's rude to talk about someone who's listening.

I do apologize for any bother caused by the stance(s) I currently have.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I do apologize

no

This guy is speaking in rhyme, the thing he's holding doesn't look like the "Mystery Man" we associate with Gaster, it moves -Odd if it'd be a piece that's shattered- & looks like a head.

I hope you do realize that talking in rhymes means literally nothing. Plus... what's wrong with it moving?

Plus, his own dialogue asserts Gaster "vanished without a trace", so what's he doing having a trace, a piece, of Gaster? It seems like a self-contradiction to me.

Of course it's a contradiction, given that's something contradicting your wankfest.

Lil' bro, "vanishing without a trace" has many meanings. Like him disappearing for a lot of time, and then somehow retrieving some parts of him.

Also, forgive me if I did or gave the impression that I did, but I don't fully believe Gaster is omnipresent. At least, given what little info we have.
It's possible he is, but I don't think we have enough to support such a conclusion, currently.

Then be clear about it ong...

 

[Imaginym]

no

Worrying. I do hope you're okay. If it's just because of my stance(s), then I'm surprised. No offense meant.

I hope you do realize that talking in rhymes means literally nothing.

It indicates a playful, or uncanny tone.

Normal people do not usually talk in rhymes, let alone to strangers.

Plus... what's wrong with it moving?

Again pardon me, but, the impression I get from this question is something like: "What's wrong with this severed part of someone's body that they're holding still moving?"

Long decapitated heads do not typically move.

Of course it's a contradiction, given that's something contradicting your wankfest.

I meant & stated that it's a contradiction of his own dialogue, & I'd be confident that you knew that that was what I meant & stated as I am asserting now.
Also, must you use such abrasive terminology?

Lil' bro, "vanishing without a trace" has many meanings. Like him disappearing for a lot of time, and then somehow retrieving some parts of him.

Disappearing for a lot of time?
He fell into his creation & got shattered across time. Falling into a machine doesn't usually result in like, going on a business trip or a soul-searching journey.

If Gaster was able to direct himself in his new multi-parted state, I suspect he would. He could resume his work as Royal Scientist, & I'm confident the kingdom would want, if not urge him to do so.
If he retrieved his parts, & this happened long ago, why are the only ones speaking of him often speaking of him in past tense, why isn't he doing science again where he's dearly wanted?

They said his life was cut short, so I doubt him falling into his own creation was deliberate.

This wasn't a journey he was just going to leisurely return from, it wasn't intentional, has disrupted he does work from now on... so why would some random follower of his have a LITERAL piece of his still alive body? He has agency, so why would he leave it with that literal who when for all we know, he's doing work in another universe, where he might dearly miss his missing head, arm, organ or whatever it could be that's held.

Then be clear about it ong...

Truly, I didn't realize I hadn't been clear.

Do you believe we have sufficient evidence to CONCLUSIVELY, UNAMBIGUOUSLY deem Gaster as Omnipresent?

 

[StrymULTRA]

This wasn't a journey he was just going to leisurely return from, it wasn't intentional, has disrupted he does work from now on... so why would some random follower of his have a LITERAL piece of his still alive body? He has agency, so why would he leave it with that literal who when for all we know, he's doing work in another universe, where he might dearly miss his missing head, arm, organ or whatever it could be that's held.

Cherrypicking at its finest, "it's literal only in the parts that are convenient to me!" moment.

Do you believe we have sufficient evidence to CONCLUSIVELY, UNAMBIGUOUSLY deem Gaster as Omnipresent?

Listen... I do not even disagree with that, Gaster should be a "Unknown, possibly Omnipresent" or something, because yes, it's vague as ****, but it's still possible to get something from it.

Like being erased from space and time does not mean that you become omnipresent, neither should be "scattered across space time" without more context.

Maybe he can just time travel while being nonexistent, who knows.