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UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD

Therefir said:
INV is a stat unique to Undertale, with its own properties, we cannot interpolate a Resistance that comes from a stat to any random character that has some kind of invulnerability.
Click to expand...
Not actually. Invulnerability is something general and lots of profiles have it. UT just treats it in a game mechanic, but it is still INV. So no, it's something that a character can use to improve durability as I stated before.
 
Redite250 said:
Except INV isn't a stat in the same way as ATK or DEF, it doesn't get higher as you gain more LV for example.
Click to expand...
Speed is also a stat and it does not increase with LV, yet it is treated as a canon stat. I don't understand why INV would not be canon since the game treats it like a canon thing, even being mentioned in items, and characters referring and interferring with it, such as Sans
 
omegabronic said:
it doesn't "add" to your durability, your durability stays the same regardless of invulnerability
Click to expand...
No, it does not. Sonic changes his durability once he gains invulnerability as I showed you, I don't know why you're refusing to see it already since I showed you this.

omegabronic said:
Dura Neg is not AP in the slightiest
Click to expand...
Once again you're not reading and just spamming this comments. I did not say Dura Neg is AP, I said it ADDS to AP just like Omnipresence adds to speed as I showed up above. Please, read things before taking a heads up on someone's commentary.
 
omegabronic said:
No it doesn't, it says that it makes him harm to kill and harm, just like how frisk has their revival and time manip on their durability section for the same reason

I am part of the people who made Sonic invulnerable in the first place, to say that i am reading wrong and that you are right no matter what is really bold
Click to expand...
Sonic's durability literally changes on his profile thanks to INV, I literally sent you... And sorry, but if you're claiming to be one of those who worked on it.. then you did not a great job if you don't even understand the job you did.
 
CoffeeBaiano said:
No, it does not. Sonic changes his durability once he gains invulnerability as I showed you, I don't know why you're refusing to see it already since I showed you this.
Click to expand...
"Varies, Universe level+, up to Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+ at his peak (Able to sustain damage from Solaris and continue fighting.[15] Temporarily caught and held back a laser fired by The End with his bare hands[16]), higher with Super Sonic Boost, far higher with Cyber Corruption, even higher with the Perfect Parry (With the trade-off of needing to be timed precisely compared to the original Parry, Super Sonic is stated to be capable of parrying anything with it[17]). Invulnerability makes it difficult to conventionally harm him"

His Dura don't change once he gets invul, his profile just say that Invul makes difficult to conventionally harm him, because Invuln don't change his dura, Invul negate the damage that he receive
 
CoffeeBaiano said:
Speed is also a stat and it does not increase with LV, yet it is treated as a canon stat. I don't understand why INV would not be canon since the game treats it like a canon thing, even being mentioned in items, and characters referring and interferring with it, such as Sans
Click to expand...
Because "speed" is a stat, sure, but it's also... Speed. Like, the speed characters walk in. Inv could just be the player getting up after falling down, or "mercy frames", and Sans ignores that because he has no mercy at this point. Like, there's nothing in-universe that "proves" Frisk becomes invulnerable straight up after getting hit, to my knowledge at least (unless I'm proven wrong of course)
 
Dragonite007 said:
"Varies, Universe level+, up to Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+ at his peak (Able to sustain damage from Solaris and continue fighting.[15] Temporarily caught and held back a laser fired by The End with his bare hands[16]), higher with Super Sonic Boost, far higher with Cyber Corruption, even higher with the Perfect Parry (With the trade-off of needing to be timed precisely compared to the original Parry, Super Sonic is stated to be capable of parrying anything with it[17]). Invulnerability makes it difficult to conventionally harm him"

His Dura don't change once he gets invul, his profile just say that Invul makes difficult to conventionally harm him, because Invuln don't change his dura, Invul negate the damage that he receive
Click to expand...
| Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+, higher with Super Sonic Boost (Invulnerability makes it difficult to conventionally harm him)

Explain why he gets a higher durability with Invulnerability in this part then.
 
Redite250 said:
Because "speed" is a stat, sure, but it's also... Speed. Like, the speed characters walk in. Inv could just be the player getting up after falling down, or "mercy frames", and Sans ignores that because he has no mercy at this point. Like, there's nothing in-universe that "proves" Frisk becomes invulnerable straight up after getting hit, to my knowledge at least (unless I'm proven wrong of course)
Click to expand...
But Speed is not treated nor mentioned AT ANY part in the game, and it's never used AT ANY part as well. INV in UT is literally mentioned in the temmie shop and Sans as well. Also, every stat in the game is canon, I don't see a reason for INV not to be canon as well.
 
CoffeeBaiano said:
But Speed is not treated nor mentioned AT ANY part in the game, and it's never used AT ANY part as well. INV in UT is literally mentioned in the temmie shop and Sans as well. Also, every stat in the game is canon, I don't see a reason for INV not to be canon as well.
Click to expand...
ATK, DEF and Speed are "canon" because they are just physical stats. Inv isn't. Besides, INV is never mentioned except from texts explaining how it works (in the game of course, not in universe) and you'd think in a meta game like Undertale characters would mention it if your character became invulnerable to damage for a couple seconds, except it's never mentioned. At all.
CoffeeBaiano said:
| Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+, higher with Super Sonic Boost (Invulnerability makes it difficult to conventionally harm him)

Explain why he gets a higher durability with Invulnerability in this part then.
Click to expand...
I don't think you're reading that right. He has higher durability with Super Sonic Boost plus Invulnerability makes it difficult to conventionally harm him. The higher durability doesn't come from the invulnerability, neither does the invulnerability come from the higher durability.
 
IKeeKon did his take on his view of DustTale tho, where Sans isn't complete madness, and Chara&Sans actually teamed up against someone else.
 
CoffeeBaiano said:
Not actually. Invulnerability is something general and lots of profiles have it. UT just treats it in a game mechanic, but it is still INV. So no, it's something that a character can use to improve durability as I stated before.
Click to expand...
The INV stat in UNDERTALE increases the DURATION of post hit invulnerability.
Blunt_Claw said:
I would like to remind everyone that INV isn't invulnerability but instead invulnerability DURATION. INV effects Sans' KARMA because it lengthens the time between his 1 hit points of damage. It doesn't make Frisk more durable at all.
Click to expand...
 
vsbattles.com

Monkey VS Skeleton because why not?

Kid Goku VS Sans 21st Budokai Goku is being used Goku knows Sans abilities and have 1 hour of prepare time Speed is equalized Sans don´t has his "likely time stop" and "likely air manipulation" Location: 21st Budokai arena Method of Victory: KO, death or BFR Both are in character Who wins...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Another one of these, yeah i know, i am bored too
 
Erasure of worlds/timelines does seem plausible, but IMHO, it sounded like the point was the Goners are gone/missing, hence them not being in their own timeline or such & only encounterable in unique circumstances. Unique "timelines", if we're to consider the different actions different players may take as leading to slightly different timelines, & the fun value as being meant to simulate that, in a meta sense.
 
Gaster seems to be creating them all, considering GONER_MAKER machine
 
Imaginym said:
Why would he do that?
I mean, they're his followers. What does a scientist need with followers? If it's to spread his knowledge -Assumed he's not too insane to do so- why through creating creepy people instead of books or something?
& why distribute them so randomly?
Click to expand...
It's... actually a good question.
But by the way, Gaster is extremely afraid of The Angel, since its implied that the second Prophecy was kept in secret(japanese translations says its straight forward tho), probably Gaster just created them, so he would be safe and Goner would be destroyed if anything had happened.
Imaginym said:
Although, another interpretation is that it's the Goner Maker in that it "makes" people become "goners" somehow.
Click to expand...
Well, when we were creating our own goner, we were assembling him like a LEGO. And it wasn't really having its own mind and that time
 
Imaginym said:
Source on those texts, please?
Click to expand...
昔むかし ひそかに語りつがれる 言い伝えがあった。
(The Prophecy was kept in a secret)
While the english version is:
Once upon a time, a LEGEND was whispered among shadows.

Kept in a secret from who tho?

and Gaster has some terrible relationships with Angel since he wants to banish The Angel's Heaven, and also he destroys The Fountains which are apparently Holy
Imaginym said:
Wait.... Forgive my asking then, but where do we see/find the thing that's identified as the GONER_MAKER Machine?
My best guess is it's an internal name for the "character creator" in Deltarune. How (in)accurate is that guess of mine? No offense meant.
Click to expand...
It's from the code itself , you know, in the code of deltarune everything what is gaster related is just typed differently, for example normal sprite would be spr_insertname while gaster related stuff will be IMAGE_PLACEHOLDER or SOUND_, PLACE_ and other stuff.
Imaginym said:
Speaking of that avatar, I wonder why Gaster would involve himself with creating that. Presumably it's part of some experiment he's overseeing.
But it's hard to figure out how that could be applied to the other goners/followers.
Click to expand...
And then Goner was destroyed by some second creature who isn't Gaster.
Imaginym said:
Incidentally, if "Goner" means Missing -Unless that was just a strange choice for Japanese localization-, it's curious what that could mean for the fate of that avatar/character.
They certainly are missing from the plot. But will they stay that way?
Click to expand...
Interesting.
 
Greetings. I have a question i want to ask, whats the basis for Immeasurable Asriel/Frisk (and by extension Chara)?
Because im looking at Hyper Goner, it doesnt SEEM to be erasing the timeline in a conventional way. It kinda looks like it shatters it to pieces and absorbs it from there.

Soooo.....dodging a piece of broken timeline = Immeasurable? I just wanna make sense of it all.
 
Topaz404 said:
Greetings. I have a question i want to ask, whats the basis for Immeasurable Asriel/Frisk (and by extension Chara)?
Because im looking at Hyper Goner, it doesnt SEEM to be erasing the timeline in a conventional way. It kinda looks like it shatters it to pieces and absorbs it from there.

Soooo.....dodging a piece of broken timeline = Immeasurable? I just wanna make sense of it all.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's because Frisk dodged pieces of a broken timeline, more so that, if Hyper Goner can pull an entire timeline into itself, escaping the force of its pull would require immeasurable speed.
 
RinneItachi said:
I don't think it's because Frisk dodged pieces of a broken timeline, more so that, if Hyper Goner can pull an entire timeline into itself, escaping the force of its pull would require immeasurable speed.
Click to expand...
It doesnt even look like Frisk is trying to escape the force of its pull- more like resisting it. You'd be more going side to side to dodge the pieces,or hell, im pretty sure you can stand still and you wont die to the attack. Correct me if im wrong though
 
RinneItachi said:
I don't think it's because Frisk dodged pieces of a broken timeline, more so that, if Hyper Goner can pull an entire timeline into itself, escaping the force of its pull would require immeasurable speed.
Click to expand...
that's weird
wouldn't it just require immeasurable LS? It's not like someone not being pulled in by something absorbing debris at rela+ speeds would make said person rela+ either
 
I mean, hell, does it even show Frisk being Immeasurable speed? Or would it just be Frisk resisting the effects of the timeline getting sucked in? Its not shown as Frisk outrunning the effect, its just Frisk not getting sucked in and dodging debris as it flies past him, towards Hyper Goner.

I just dont see it :/
 
Honestly the Immeasurable Speed is just very easy to understand.

Frisk simply dodged with sheer physical movement the destruction of the timeline, it's not shown "directly" because of how weird would it be to dodge omnidirectional attacks and the game has was made in GameMaker in what, 2013?

Plus you guys have to understand this is Undertale, everytime Frisk gets hit from something they receive damage mid-battle unless it's something scripted to not make them to (like MTT NEO exploding).

If Frisk does not dodge the Hyper Goner, their HP get reduced to 1, otherwise they'd still be at whatever amount they were before, it's not something that Frisk is supposed to no-sell, it's just another attack that you either dodge or get damaged.
ZillertheBucko said:
wouldn't it just require immeasurable LS? It's not like someone not being pulled in by something absorbing debris at rela+ speeds would make said person rela+ either
Click to expand...
To be fair this is more like a Black Hole here. I wouldn't say it's actually Immeasurable LS given how weird and vague the mechanics at play are here, but it's clear they did it through sheer movement.
 
But it really doesnt look like Frisk is like- outrunning the destruction of the timeline (that would make it very clear), but i can say that he DID survive it being consumed by the Hyper Goner
But my question is would Frisk dodging chunks of the timeline (presumably shattering around them) count as Immeasurable? How do we even know its even the chunks of the timeline your even trying to dodge?

Im not trying to downplay it (that aint gonna happen anytime soon), but im trying to understand it. Im not convinced :/
 
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