Uncompositing the Dragon Ball Cosmology

[Lonkitt]

but what are your opinions about whether or not GT/Movies are cannon as alternate timelines? are you guys' opinion on that?

I believe they’re alternate timelines

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

bro's trying to loop back to the same argument that was addressed and finished 3 days ago ignore and move on

We accept that the cosmology is 2-B and has more than 5 time rings and the crt isn’t even about changing that so as Breezy would say its poppycock

 

[Veronica]

Bump

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Bump

 

[KLOL506]

@Celestial_Pegasus @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Starter_Pack @Colonel_Krukov @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Just_a_Random_Butler @Emirp sumitpo @LordTracer @DemonGodMitchAubin Your evaluation here would be appreciated.

 

[AguilaR202]

This is getting wildly off topic, even though I prefer to leave them as separate timelines, composite cosmology for the living realm, afterlife, kaioshin realm, and pretty much everything we saw in toei is staying. Suguroku space is whatever, but if it stays or goes, so be it. So now we need to reach a solid conclusion.

Suguroku space is not relevant anyways because it exists outside the standard model of macrocosm; Kibitokai can’t reach it with IT unlike the rest of the realms.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Literally everything points to a shared Cosmology, there are characters that reference both from Dr slump and the owner of the manga himself said they were alternate timelines

 

[Omegabronic]

Literally everything points to a shared Cosmology, there are characters that reference both from Dr slump and the wonder of the manga himself said they were alternate timelines

dude, this was already said and addressed back and forth multiple times in this thread, i kindly ask you to avoid repeated topics

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Literally everything points to a shared Cosmology, there are characters that reference both from Dr slump and the wonder of the manga himself said they were alternate timelines

hehehe, exactly

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

dude, this was already said and addressed back and forth multiple times in this thread,

Not sure what you mean by addressed,if you mean handwaving the owner's own statements as headcanon, then no, you people didn't address anything

i kindly ask you to avoid repeated topics

I kindly ask you to mind your passive aggressive tone

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Not sure what you mean by addressed,if you mean handwaving the owner's own statements as headcanon, then no, you people didn't address anything

I kindly ask you to mind your passive aggressive tone

I mean this has been brought up as evidence and not accepted as enough. Nothing more you can do about that apart from finding more evidence.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

I mean this has been brought up as evidence and not accepted as enough. Nothing more you can do about that apart from finding more evidence.

Honestly? Judging from the responses and standards I read from those who rejected it, I am not sure a phone call from Toriyama would even work

 

[Omegabronic]

Not sure what you mean by addressed,if you mean handwaving the owner's own statements as headcanon, then no, you people didn't address anything

"You people" i am not in either side, what i meant is that this argument was already brought up and discussed, we really don't need more repetition again

I kindly ask you to mind your passive aggressive tone

Not sure how that could have been passive agressive in any way

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Honestly? Judging from the responses and standards I read from those who rejected it, I am not sure a phone call from Toriyama would even work

What can you do. Since the crt is trying to pass in this site those are the standards.

 

[Omegabronic]

bump

 

[Vizer04]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

If needed, this is from the Dragon Ball Z Anime Special booklet. It's a book all about the development of anime and movies in special and talks about Toriyama's relationship with anime development. This page is the "Akira Toriyama's Memos" (鳥山明メモだ) and is about the notes Toriyama makes for the anime staff for original ideas.

いくら原作者といっても、アニメのドラゴンボールをみるのは、みなさんと同じ水曜日の7時です。 自分でマンガに描いておきながら展開を忘れてしまっている場合や、 アニメだけのオリジナルな内容の時、迫力のあるシーンなどで盛り上がっている時など、 「どうなるんだろ・・・」などと、けっこうドキドキして晩ゴハンを食べながら、楽しくみせてもらっています。 あたりまえのことですがアニメにはアニメならではの良さがあり、マンガにはマンガならではの良さがあります。みなさんも、アニメとマンガ、似ているようで、それぞれ微妙にちがった世界を持っているふたつの 「ドラゴンボール」を、ぜひお楽しみください。 (ところでわが家は5人家族ですが、 アニメもマンガもドラゴンボールをみているのはボクひとりです。とほほ･･･。 ま、いいけどね)

Akira Toriyama: Even though I'm the original author, I watch the Dragon Ball anime just like everyone else, at 7 o'clock on Wednesdays. Even though I draw the manga, I sometimes forget about the development, so when there's original content in the anime, when there's a very exciting and powerful scene, I get "What is going to happen...", I'm eating my rice during the evening, and having a lot of fun. Everyone, both the manga and anime are similar, but they are slightly different worlds even though both have "Dragon Ball", you'll certainly enjoy both of them. (By the way, my house family has people, but I'm the only one who watches both the anime and manga of Dragon Bal... Hoho... Well, that is good.)

アニメ版ドラゴンボールZのオリジナル部分の基本となる鳥山明先生のアイディアメモを大公開!
The basis for the original parts of the anime version of Dragon Ball Z, Akira Toriyama-sensei's idea memo, is now open to the public!

「ドラゴンボールZ」では原作にはないオリジナルエピソードがふんだんに盛り込まれている。この原作に登場しない部分は、すべて鳥山明先生の考えたアイディアをもとにして作られているんだ。 鳥山明先生がアニメの製作スタッフに自分の考えを伝えるために描いたアイディアメモがこの「鳥山明メモ」なのだ! このページではアニメで使われた鳥山明先生のアイディアを紹介しちゃうゾ!
"Dragon Ball Z" has various original episodes that are not in the original. The parts that don't appear in the original work, are all created based on Akira Toriyama-sensei's ideas. This "Akira Toyirama Memo" is an idea memo drawn by Akira Toriyama-sensei to convey his thoughts to the anime development staff!
On this page, we'll introduce Akira Toriyama-sensei's ideas that were used in the anime!

さて、蛇の道ってどんなところなんだろうか?あの雲の下には何があるのだろう? 鳥山明先生は、みんなの気になるそんなところもちゃんと考えているのダ。原作では明かされなかった部分がわかっちゃうなんて、ちょっとトクした気分だね。
So what is Serpentine Road like? What's under those clouds? Akira Toriyama-sensei really thought about things everyone cares about. It feels a little advantageous to learn about things that weren't revealed in the original work.

Executor seems to make sense above, but a summary of each side of the arguments here would be appreciated.

 

[Omegabronic]

Executor seems to make sense above, but a summary of each side of the arguments here would be appreciated.

I already did that here

https://vsbattles.com/threads/uncompositing-the-dragon-ball-cosmology.157344/post-5980669

 

[Antvasima]

If needed, this is from the Dragon Ball Z Anime Special booklet. It's a book all about the development of anime and movies in special and talks about Toriyama's relationship with anime development. This page is the "Akira Toriyama's Memos" (鳥山明メモだ) and is about the notes Toriyama makes for the anime staff for original ideas.

いくら原作者といっても、アニメのドラゴンボールをみるのは、みなさんと同じ水曜日の7時です。 自分でマンガに描いておきながら展開を忘れてしまっている場合や、 アニメだけのオリジナルな内容の時、迫力のあるシーンなどで盛り上がっている時など、 「どうなるんだろ・・・」などと、けっこうドキドキして晩ゴハンを食べながら、楽しくみせてもらっています。 あたりまえのことですがアニメにはアニメならではの良さがあり、マンガにはマンガならではの良さがあります。みなさんも、アニメとマンガ、似ているようで、それぞれ微妙にちがった世界を持っているふたつの 「ドラゴンボール」を、ぜひお楽しみください。 (ところでわが家は5人家族ですが、 アニメもマンガもドラゴンボールをみているのはボクひとりです。とほほ･･･。 ま、いいけどね)

Akira Toriyama: Even though I'm the original author, I watch the Dragon Ball anime just like everyone else, at 7 o'clock on Wednesdays. Even though I draw the manga, I sometimes forget about the development, so when there's original content in the anime, when there's a very exciting and powerful scene, I get "What is going to happen...", I'm eating my rice during the evening, and having a lot of fun. Everyone, both the manga and anime are similar, but they are slightly different worlds even though both have "Dragon Ball", you'll certainly enjoy both of them. (By the way, my house family has people, but I'm the only one who watches both the anime and manga of Dragon Bal... Hoho... Well, that is good.)

アニメ版ドラゴンボールZのオリジナル部分の基本となる鳥山明先生のアイディアメモを大公開!
The basis for the original parts of the anime version of Dragon Ball Z, Akira Toriyama-sensei's idea memo, is now open to the public!

「ドラゴンボールZ」では原作にはないオリジナルエピソードがふんだんに盛り込まれている。この原作に登場しない部分は、すべて鳥山明先生の考えたアイディアをもとにして作られているんだ。 鳥山明先生がアニメの製作スタッフに自分の考えを伝えるために描いたアイディアメモがこの「鳥山明メモ」なのだ! このページではアニメで使われた鳥山明先生のアイディアを紹介しちゃうゾ!
"Dragon Ball Z" has various original episodes that are not in the original. The parts that don't appear in the original work, are all created based on Akira Toriyama-sensei's ideas. This "Akira Toyirama Memo" is an idea memo drawn by Akira Toriyama-sensei to convey his thoughts to the anime development staff!
On this page, we'll introduce Akira Toriyama-sensei's ideas that were used in the anime!

さて、蛇の道ってどんなところなんだろうか?あの雲の下には何があるのだろう? 鳥山明先生は、みんなの気になるそんなところもちゃんと考えているのダ。原作では明かされなかった部分がわかっちゃうなんて、ちょっとトクした気分だね。
So what is Serpentine Road like? What's under those clouds? Akira Toriyama-sensei really thought about things everyone cares about. It feels a little advantageous to learn about things that weren't revealed in the original work.

Executor seems to make sense above, but a summary of each side of the arguments here would be appreciated.

I already did that here

https://vsbattles.com/threads/uncompositing-the-dragon-ball-cosmology.157344/post-5980669

@Elizhaa @SamanPatou @DarkDragonMedeus @Theglassman12 @Flashlight237 @Therefir @DemonGodMitchAubin @UchihaSlayer96 @Maverick_Zero_X @Migue79 @LordGriffin1000 @Starter_Pack @Sir_Ovens

What do you all think about this? Help would be appreciated.

 

[Therefir]

Going with Toriyama's comments (the last that were translated), I'm inclined to believe that these stories are alternate timelines of the same world and that they share the same cosmology.

 

[Elizhaa]

I still think Executor's interpretation makes the most sense; I don't disagree that there are some differences between what does or doesn't exist between original manga + Super and the Toei continuity + GT and (Movies to an extent). But the structure of the universe as the nature of the Otherworld Vs Living World has still remained consistent amongst all mediums.

Going with Toriyama's comments (the last that were translated), I'm inclined to believe that these stories are alternate timelines of the same world and that they share the same cosmology.

I shared similar thoughts.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

I saw the vote count and it didn't look like the votes for this were being counted

 

[Omegabronic]

I saw the vote count and it didn't look like the votes for this were being counted

they were, all the initial votes were asked for a recount with the summary made, i just got back here, so i will put the newly made votes there now

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I think we have enough votes to close this and the cosmology is made up (being the same), anyway, the original timelines of the movies are alternate lines, like featured in my crt to add this.

Agree: @Deagonx, @Maverick_Zero_X, @KingTempest, @Damage3245

Disagree: @LordGriffin1000, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Lonkitt ,@Antvasima ,@Therefir ,@Elizhaa,

Neutral: @LephyrTheRevanchist

 

[ProudLearner]

Can any of the info above be added to the Dragon Ball page or blogs?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Can any of the info above be added to the Dragon Ball page or blogs?

I think we have to wait for their response, but I'm sure it will be of some help for relegation attempts later on.

 

[Omegabronic]

I think we have enough votes to close this and the cosmology is made up (being the same), anyway, the original timelines of the movies are alternate lines, like featured in my crt to add this.

Agree: @Deagonx, @Maverick_Zero_X, @KingTempest, @Damage3245

Disagree: @LordGriffin1000, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Lonkitt ,@Antvasima ,@Therefir ,@Elizhaa,

Neutral: @LephyrTheRevanchist

@Antvasima has not voted, @Therefir vote doesn't count for evaluating this thread due to his being a content mod, 2 of the 13 staffs that Ant tagged have commented, we do not have enough votes to close this thread still, besides a bunch of the votes you counted as "Agree" and "disagree" haven't voted in one of the now 2 tallies for this thread, we need to have votes on that to conclude if we will composite the cosmology based on it being alternate timelines or because of Akira's involvement with the anime

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Executor seems to make sense above, but a summary of each side of the arguments here would be appreciated.

...

 

[Omegabronic]

...

but a summary of each side of the arguments here would be appreciated.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

but a summary of each side of the arguments here would be appreciated.

Executor seems to make sense above

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I shared similar thoughts.

Do we need a few more opinions from a few team members or would just 6 be enough to wrap this up?

 

[Omegabronic]

ignoring the second phrase that indicates uncertain tone is not helpful dude, stop talking for him please, ask him about his vote instead to him

 

[Omegabronic]

Do we need a few more opinions from a few team members or would just 6 be enough to wrap this up?

the vote difference is of only 1 vote for those with evaluation rights

 

[Vietthai96]

Anyway, so simplifiy the vote count is:
Agree: 2 thread mods, 2 admins
Disagree: 1 thread mods, 3 admins

Still this is DB we talking about need more staff opinions

 

[Damage3245]

One thing that hasn't been brought up enough here I think is that even if the movie-original content was considered to be "alternate timelines" (despite never being stated to be such) then why couldn't they just be non-canon alternate timelines?

Do people really think it's possible for characters in Dragon Ball Super to time-travel to Dragon Ball GT?

 

[Nierre]

after finally reading through this, I share the same opinions as Leph. ...which isn't all that helpful since it's mostly a neutral stance ahaha

 

[pineappleman]

One thing that hasn't been brought up enough here I think is that even if the movie-original content was considered to be "alternate timelines" (despite never being stated to be such) then why couldn't they just be non-canon alternate timelines?

Do people really think it's possible for characters in Dragon Ball Super to time-travel to Dragon Ball GT?

this has been brought up a million times and the answer is still the same
DB operates under MWI, there is no 'non-canon alternate timelines'

 

[Hasty12345]

DB operates under MWI, there is no 'non-canon alternate timelines'

if by MWI you mean timelines are created when time travel occurs and a change is made which causes a single timeline to branch, then sure

 

[Damage3245]

this has been brought up a million times and the answer is still the same
DB operates under MWI, there is no 'non-canon alternate timelines'

MWI has nothing to do with canon/non-canon, so it does not mean there are no non-canon alternate timelines.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

this has been brought up a million times and the answer is still the same
DB operates under MWI, there is no 'non-canon alternate timelines'

Wasn't that scan fake or am I thinking of something else?