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the 'invidual labels' in question:This could contain quite literally anything. All of the cabinets are individually labeled.
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the 'invidual labels' in question:This could contain quite literally anything. All of the cabinets are individually labeled.
Proof?
How does this refute my claims?
Why wouldn't they be able to share those 3 timelines? The split occurs after the Cell Saga, we have no reason to believe it would result in copies.Timeline 4 and 6 are different timelines. Each of these timelines share the same history up to the Goku Black arc. Each of their individual histories are linked with 3 other timelines. One of Future Trunks, one of Cell, and one where the Future Trunks from Cell's timeline went the first time around.
They cannot share these 3 timelines inbetween eachother, they both individually have 3 timelines linked to one another.
Were you not implying that Whis transported Trunks and Mai into the past of their original world, without causing another timeline shift?How does this refute my claims?
Because the past doesn't just stop existing unaccounted for after a timeline split. The present has to build itself around the past, and not the opposite.Why wouldn't they be able to share those 3 timelines? The split occurs after the Cell Saga, we have no reason to believe it would result in copies.
These timelines are branches, they can share a history and only separate when their two histories become irreconcilable. There's no necessity for "copy" timelines here, and there's no information in-verse that says any such mechanism exists.Because the past doesn't just stop existing unaccounted for after a timeline split. The present has to build itself around the past, and not the opposite.
in simple terms, two cells are needed for two timelines that both need them.
Yes, the main history split in two. As in, its other halve is our timeline.
Rewriting history creates a parallel world.Were you not implying that Whis transported Trunks and Mai into the past of their original world, without causing another timeline shift?
Weren't you the one that said it wasn't split in two, and that it was one and the same?Yes, the main history split in two. As in, its other halve is our timeline.
Rewriting history creates a parallel world.
Did you forget about Whis going back in time with Trunks and Mai before the timeline shift would occur? Copy timelines are an absolute necessity, and are purely logical with how history works. If this particular subject is all that's left in our argument, I think this is a good spot to finish off and let the rest of the moderators cast their votes.These timelines are branches, they can share a history and only separate when their two histories become irreconcilable.
Whoops. I read it as "timeline where Beerus didn't erase Zamasu" and "Zamasu steals Goku's body".Weren't you the one that said it wasn't split in two, and that it was one and the same?
He went before the shift created by Goku Black, but then he changed the timeline himself, by indicating that he was going to make sure that timelines' Beerus took care of Zamasu, thus creating a timeline to replace the one Zeno destroyed, which is why all six timelines are accounted for.Did you forget about Whis going back in time with Trunks and Mai before the timeline shift would occur?
No, they aren't, as I explained the timelines can have a shared history, and they are not "logical" because time travel is a purely fictional concept and only follows the rules the author creates.Copy timelines are an absolute necessity, and are purely logical with how history works
..Based on the timelines you yourself provided the 'canon' timeline in itself was created by Cell, who's involvement created the history that spawned off the 'canon' Future Trunks timeline. You're the one here arguing that this wouldn't occur for Goku Black for some reason, the series doesn't have to bend itself to your logic when it comes to evidence.No, they aren't, as I explained the timelines can have a shared history, and they are not "logical" because time travel is a purely fictional concept and only follows the rules the author creates.
There is no evidence of copy timelines. There is evidence against copy timelines. It's that simple.
I don't follow the argument you're making, please be more specific. What am I saying wouldn't occur for Goku black?..Based on the timelines you yourself provided the 'canon' timeline in itself was created by Cell, who's involvement created the history that spawned off the 'canon' Future Trunks timeline. You're the one here arguing that this wouldn't occur for Goku Black for some reason, the series doesn't have to bend itself to your logic when it comes to evidence.
wasn't it only a different timeline because he time traveled? that is what the original translation that null provided implies anywayiirc, isn't Trunks travelling to the past in Z isn't literal past of his own timeline, but actually the past of different timeline???
New timelines only occur when two things happen in tandem.wasn't it only a different timeline because he time traveled? that is what the original translation that null provided implies anyway
Yes, I remember Bulma mentioned that the time machine travels to parallel worlds.iirc, isn't Trunks travelling to the past in Z isn't literal past of his own timeline, but actually the past of different timeline???
Posting this here because this video is relevant
No wonder why it’s so difficult to parse this out—It’s literally because it’s not internally consistent.
Just wanted to repost this argument since I never got a response first time around. Would this not prove a Manga-Toeiverse link?I feel like this would actually help our argument enormously. The DBS anime and BOG movie are different entities, so if GT happens after BOG rather than DBS, the contradictions brought on by DBS are irrelevant. And with the statements of the movies being different dimensions from the manga at least, that would mean...
-The movies are canon to the manga as parallel worlds through Toriyama's statement about them taking place in different dimensions.
-The movies are canon to the Toeiverse since GT happens after BOG (not DBS, since there are contradictions against GT happening after, just BOG movie).
Shouldn't this be a clear Manga-Toeiverse link? The GT timeline is a parallel timeline to the manga since it's the same timeline as the Battle of Gods movie, which takes place in a parallel timeline from the manga via Toriyama's statement about the movies.
not so fast, we do not have enough voting to decide that yet, and even, what will stay composite will possibly be up to debate as well considering what the staff who voted for it were arguingThis is getting wildly off topic, even though I prefer to leave them as separate timelines, composite cosmology for the living realm, afterlife, kaioshin realm, and pretty much everything we saw in toei is staying.
there are arguments contesting both of those points made along the thread as well, at this point i would very much prefer everyone to stop talking and let the staff evaluate on the summary instead of creating even more pagesJust wanted to repost this argument since I never got a response first time around. Would this not prove a Manga-Toeiverse link?
-The movies are canon to the manga as parallel worlds through Toriyama's statement about them taking place in different dimensions.
What is your personal stance on Dragon Ball’s theatrical films, Sensei?
"I take the movies as “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic”. I’m entirely just an audience member for them."
How is one film, lending itself to the continuity of (count 'em!) zero previous films, being connected to GT* proof of all previous films being canon?-The movies are canon to the Toeiverse since GT happens after BOG (not DBS, since there are contradictions against GT happening after, just BOG movie).
And, for the curious, the final episode of the Dragon Ball Z anime is episode 291.アニメーションシリーズの「Z」と「GT」の間、つまり、原作517話で魔人ブウとの戦いが終わった後、518話までの空白の10年の間に起こったエピソードが初めて描かれる。
For the first time, the film depicts the episodes that took place between "Z" and "GT" in the animation series, that is, the 10-year gap between the end of the battle with Majin Buu in episode 517 of the original story and episode 518.
Toriyama never said that.Shouldn't this be a clear Manga-Toeiverse link? The GT timeline is a parallel timeline to the manga since it's the same timeline as the Battle of Gods movie, which takes place in a parallel timeline from the manga via Toriyama's statement about the movies.
But the above press release works, too.
How is one film, lending itself to the continuity of (count 'em!) zero previous films, being connected to GT* proof of all previous films being canon?
Asterisk, because the press release reads:
And, for the curious, the final episode of the Dragon Ball Z anime is episode 291.
Besides, according to the timeline presented at the Tenkaichi Budōsai, as the entire thread knows, GT takes place after Super, rather than the film, no?
Toriyama never said that.
Toriyama said:
But the above press release works, too.
Him being an audience member for the movies doesn't contradict them being from a different dimension to the main story of the comic or canon to the overarching series in his view as the author.What is your personal stance on Dragon Ball’s theatrical films, Sensei?
"I take the movies as “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic”. I’m entirely just an audience member for them."
Connected to Battle of Gods.Zero previous films being connected to GT is wrong
Did you just ignore everything else?Him being an audience member for the movies
If you feel like I've ignored something, feel free to point it outConnected to Battle of Gods.
Did you just ignore everything else?
Can I do that, too, from now on?
If you feel like I've ignored something, feel free to point it out
What is your personal stance on Dragon Ball’s theatrical films, Sensei?
"I take the movies as “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic”.
as per our rules of WoG, non decisive statements such as personal opinions are not conclusive enough to be accepted, his opinions about his work can't overwrite the work itself, so if isn't him concretely saying a fact about the work, but him giving an opinion on it, then it wouldn't be valid enough per our standards to be accepted, specially with statements that straight up says that the movies are not in the canon at all like the one @The_Yellow_Topaz showedWhat type of stance do you think Toriyama takes when taking decisions for his series? lol
Decisive.What type of stance do you think Toriyama takes when taking decisions for his series? lol
Good thing it's not overwriting the work itself, and isn't the only piece of evidence presented in our argument.as per our rules of WoG, non decisive statements such as personal opinions are not conclusive enough to be accepted, his opinions about his work can't overwrite the work itself, so if isn't him concretely saying a fact about the work, but him giving an opinion on it, then it wouldn't be valid enough per our standards to be accepted, specially with statements that straight up says that the movies are not in the canon at all like the one @The_Yellow_Topaz showed
a legitimate case of arguing semantics, since it was the interviewer that brought up the word 'personal' in the first place. not to mention arguing semantics over a translated interview.Decisive.
Yes, there is a major difference.
the work itself never showed GT or the movies at all, all we have are statements and that's itGood thing it's not overwriting the work itself, and isn't the only piece of evidence presented in our argument.
and akira said the "i take" which indicates personal opinion, plus if the question was for his personal opinion, then it is his personal opinion, if you think that the translation is not valid then bring the raw text for to be translated here thena legitimate case of arguing semantics, since it was the interviewer that brought up the word 'personal' in the first place. not to mention arguing semantics over a translated interview.
Honestly, if you think that the author giving clarification on the canonicity of the films in an interview within a guidebook all about these specific movies and specials (literally called Daizenshuu 6: Movies & TV Specials) is just a 'personal opinion that should be discarded' and that the personal headcanon of the people here has more merit, you're just being sillyand akira said the "i take" which indicates personal opinion, plus if the question was for his personal opinion, then it is his personal opinion, if you think that the translation is not valid then bring the raw text for to be translated here then
nice 'nu-uh'He didn't do that, though.
and akira said the "i take" which indicates personal opinion, plus if the question was for his personal opinion, then it is his personal opinion, if you think that the translation is not valid then bring the raw text for to be translated here then
that is good evidence for your side, we can have a translator here double check it tho, i think if a staff could tag @Executor_N0 it would be goodnice 'nu-uh'
Here's the raw of both the question and it's answer, according to JJ there is no explicit wording such as 'personal' to begin with so again, you've all just been arguing over semantics in a translation
Would be nice of Executor to double check this though, and to go into detail over “先生の中で”.
Also:
Taken from Dragon Box: The Movies
nice 'nu-uh'
Here's the raw of both the question and it's answer, according to JJ there is no explicit wording such as 'personal' to begin with so again, you've all just been arguing over semantics in a translation
Would be nice of Executor to double check this though, and to go into detail over “先生の中で”.
Also:
Taken from Dragon Box: The Movies
That's a very strong evidence.nice 'nu-uh'
Here's the raw of both the question and it's answer, according to JJ there is no explicit wording such as 'personal' to begin with so again, you've all just been arguing over semantics in a translation
Would be nice of Executor to double check this though, and to go into detail over “先生の中で”.
Also:
Taken from Dragon Box: The Movies
nice 'nu-uh'
Here's the raw of both the question and it's answer, according to JJ there is no explicit wording such as 'personal' to begin with so again, you've all just been arguing over semantics in a translation
Would be nice of Executor to double check this though, and to go into detail over “先生の中で”.
Also:
Taken from Dragon Box: The Movies
@Executor_N0 could you take a look at these? Thanks in advance.
If executor can translate these scans too that’d be a W