- 628
- 1,157
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Uncompositing the Dragon Ball Cosmology
- Thread starter BestMGQScalerEver
- Start date
- Status
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,782
- 8,601
- 7,836
- 14,855
Why wouldn't they be able to share those 3 timelines? The split occurs after the Cell Saga, we have no reason to believe it would result in copies.
- 628
- 1,157
?
Were you not implying that Whis transported Trunks and Mai into the past of their original world, without causing another timeline shift?
Because the past doesn't just stop existing unaccounted for after a timeline split. The present has to build itself around the past, and not the opposite.
in simple terms, two cells are needed for two timelines that both need them.
- 7,836
- 14,855
These timelines are branches, they can share a history and only separate when their two histories become irreconcilable. There's no necessity for "copy" timelines here, and there's no information in-verse that says any such mechanism exists.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,782
- 8,601
Yes, the main history split in two. As in, its other halve is our timeline.
?
Rewriting history creates a parallel world.
- 628
- 1,157
Weren't you the one that said it wasn't split in two, and that it was one and the same?
And yes, we're on agreement on that second point.
Did you forget about Whis going back in time with Trunks and Mai before the timeline shift would occur? Copy timelines are an absolute necessity, and are purely logical with how history works. If this particular subject is all that's left in our argument, I think this is a good spot to finish off and let the rest of the moderators cast their votes.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,782
- 8,601
Whoops. I read it as "timeline where Beerus didn't erase Zamasu" and "Zamasu steals Goku's body".
- 7,836
- 14,855
He went before the shift created by Goku Black, but then he changed the timeline himself, by indicating that he was going to make sure that timelines' Beerus took care of Zamasu, thus creating a timeline to replace the one Zeno destroyed, which is why all six timelines are accounted for.
No, they aren't, as I explained the timelines can have a shared history, and they are not "logical" because time travel is a purely fictional concept and only follows the rules the author creates.
There is no evidence of copy timelines. There is evidence against copy timelines. It's that simple.
- 628
- 1,157
..Based on the timelines you yourself provided the 'canon' timeline in itself was created by Cell, who's involvement created the history that spawned off the 'canon' Future Trunks timeline. You're the one here arguing that this wouldn't occur for Goku Black for some reason, the series doesn't have to bend itself to your logic when it comes to evidence.
- 7,836
- 14,855
I don't follow the argument you're making, please be more specific. What am I saying wouldn't occur for Goku black?
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,145
- 14,402
iirc, isn't Trunks travelling to the past in Z isn't literal past of his own timeline, but actually the past of different timeline???
- 11,910
- 4,281
wasn't it only a different timeline because he time traveled? that is what the original translation that null provided implies anyway
- 7,836
- 14,855
New timelines only occur when two things happen in tandem.
1) Someone travels to the past
2) They create a paradox in doing so.
Logically any interaction with the past is a paradox but Dragon Ball treats this more casually. Future Trunks warning them about Goku Black didn't result in a "paradox" until it causes Beerus to kill Zamasu.
- 369
- 353
Yes, I remember Bulma mentioned that the time machine travels to parallel worlds.
- 2,444
- 2,865
No wonder why it’s so difficult to parse this out—It’s literally because it’s not internally consistent.
- 10,116
- 11,488
- 2,712
- 3,501
This is getting wildly off topic, even though I prefer to leave them as separate timelines, composite cosmology for the living realm, afterlife, kaioshin realm, and pretty much everything we saw in toei is staying. Suguroku space is whatever, but if it stays or goes, so be it. So now we need to reach a solid conclusion.
- 1,393
- 3,510
Just wanted to repost this argument since I never got a response first time around. Would this not prove a Manga-Toeiverse link?
- 11,910
- 4,281
not so fast, we do not have enough voting to decide that yet, and even, what will stay composite will possibly be up to debate as well considering what the staff who voted for it were arguing
- 11,910
- 4,281
there are arguments contesting both of those points made along the thread as well, at this point i would very much prefer everyone to stop talking and let the staff evaluate on the summary instead of creating even more pages
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,782
- 8,601
How is one film, lending itself to the continuity of (count 'em!) zero previous films, being connected to GT* proof of all previous films being canon?
Asterisk, because the press release reads:
And, for the curious, the final episode of the Dragon Ball Z anime is episode 291.
Besides, according to the timeline presented at the Tenkaichi Budōsai, as the entire thread knows, GT takes place after Super, rather than the film, no?
Toriyama never said that.
Toriyama said:
But the above press release works, too.
- 628
- 1,157
Him being an audience member for the movies doesn't contradict them being from a different dimension to the main story of the comic or canon to the overarching series in his view as the author.
Hell, one of these theatrical films that he was a mere audience member for ended up being added directly to the canon:
Zero previous films being connected to GT is wrong, seeing as GT is tied directly to four movies (Deadzone, Cooler's Revenge, Fusion Reborn, Wrath of the Dragon) with these movies themselves being tied to a great number of the other films.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,782
- 8,601
Connected to Battle of Gods.
Did you just ignore everything else?
Can I do that, too, from now on?
- 628
- 1,157
If you feel like I've ignored something, feel free to point it out
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,782
- 8,601
- 628
- 1,157
What type of stance do you think Toriyama takes when taking decisions for his series? lol
- 11,910
- 4,281
as per our rules of WoG, non decisive statements such as personal opinions are not conclusive enough to be accepted, his opinions about his work can't overwrite the work itself, so if isn't him concretely saying a fact about the work, but him giving an opinion on it, then it wouldn't be valid enough per our standards to be accepted, specially with statements that straight up says that the movies are not in the canon at all like the one @The_Yellow_Topaz showed
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,509
- 628
- 1,157
Good thing it's not overwriting the work itself, and isn't the only piece of evidence presented in our argument.
a legitimate case of arguing semantics, since it was the interviewer that brought up the word 'personal' in the first place. not to mention arguing semantics over a translated interview.
- 11,910
- 4,281
the work itself never showed GT or the movies at all, all we have are statements and that's it
and akira said the "i take" which indicates personal opinion, plus if the question was for his personal opinion, then it is his personal opinion, if you think that the translation is not valid then bring the raw text for to be translated here then
- 628
- 1,157
Honestly, if you think that the author giving clarification on the canonicity of the films in an interview within a guidebook all about these specific movies and specials (literally called Daizenshuu 6: Movies & TV Specials) is just a 'personal opinion that should be discarded' and that the personal headcanon of the people here has more merit, you're just being silly
- 628
- 1,157
nice 'nu-uh'
Here's the raw of both the question and it's answer, according to JJ there is no explicit wording such as 'personal' to begin with so again, you've all just been arguing over semantics in a translation
Would be nice of Executor to double check this though, and to go into detail over “先生の中で”.
Also:
Taken from Dragon Box: The Movies
- 11,910
- 4,281
that is good evidence for your side, we can have a translator here double check it tho, i think if a staff could tag @Executor_N0 it would be goodnice 'nu-uh'
Here's the raw of both the question and it's answer, according to JJ there is no explicit wording such as 'personal' to begin with so again, you've all just been arguing over semantics in a translation
Would be nice of Executor to double check this though, and to go into detail over “先生の中で”.
Also:
Taken from Dragon Box: The Movies
- 3,486
- 5,161
nice 'nu-uh'
Here's the raw of both the question and it's answer, according to JJ there is no explicit wording such as 'personal' to begin with so again, you've all just been arguing over semantics in a translation
Would be nice of Executor to double check this though, and to go into detail over “先生の中で”.
Also:
Taken from Dragon Box: The Movies
If executor can translate these scans too that’d be a W
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,509
The quality is too rough, I can't make out most of the kanjis or katakana.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,509
That's a very strong evidence.nice 'nu-uh'
Here's the raw of both the question and it's answer, according to JJ there is no explicit wording such as 'personal' to begin with so again, you've all just been arguing over semantics in a translation
Would be nice of Executor to double check this though, and to go into detail over “先生の中で”.
Also:
Taken from Dragon Box: The Movies
ChatGPT's translation is second only to a human translator, as it understands context to some extent.
Here's it's take on the passage:
"Translation: "If you're a fan, you have to enjoy it up to this point!! An original story not found in the original work!! Although the movie has an original story, it is not a separate entity from the main series. Parts that might seem possible and origins that were not explained, are revealed in the movie!!"
Context: This passage is discussing the enjoyment and significance of a movie within the context of a fan's perspective. It emphasizes that the movie contains an original story that is not present in the original source material (likely referring to a series or franchise like Dragon Ball). Despite having an original storyline, the movie is not detached from the main series and is still connected to the established universe. The text suggests that certain elements or details that were previously unexplained or left open to interpretation in the main series might find their origins or explanations clarified in the context of the movie. The passage aims to highlight the value of the movie for fans and how it contributes to the overarching narrative of the series."
- 10,116
- 11,488
nice 'nu-uh'
Here's the raw of both the question and it's answer, according to JJ there is no explicit wording such as 'personal' to begin with so again, you've all just been arguing over semantics in a translation
Would be nice of Executor to double check this though, and to go into detail over “先生の中で”.
Also:
Taken from Dragon Box: The Movies
@Executor_N0 could you take a look at these? Thanks in advance.
If executor can translate these scans too that’d be a W
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
