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Ultra Pokémon Discussion Thread (Discussion thread 7)

The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Oh. What a shame..
Click to expand...
Dude, they are dealing with Team Skull, Aether, Ultra Recon Squad and Necrozma main game. Episode Rainbow Rocket has to be Post-Game.
 
Oh... It's like the Rayquza thing. It's technically "canon" . I'm sorry... I thought it was Post-Game as in " A random occurrence " . Forgive me for sounding ignorant....

ANYWAYS ... Should we attempt to make profiles for the protagonist now ? As well as giving a different key for the Team Villians ?
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
ANYWAYS ... Should we attempt to make profiles for the protagonist now ?
Click to expand...
We currently cannot since the trainers scaling should be completely revised and this is fifth time i said this.
 
... Can i ask how exactly are you going to revise the scaling system for the trainers ? It probably has to do with Legendaries.. I feel that is the only reason the pokemon scaling system would be revised.
 
That's the hard part since in Sun and Moon you can fight Salamence via S.O.S, having them at third stage Pokémon level at the beginnings is something that i disagree, same for second gym Starmie and Mawile in third gen, second cave.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
...Hmm... Interesting. I do believe however that US & UM Protagonists are debatably the most powerful protagonists we have .
Click to expand...
By what metrics are we measuring this? I mean, if you mean by scaling to them canonically taking out all the villains.... Yeah, probably.

Which reminds me that I really need to get around to making that silly Composite Pokemon Trainer Protagonist Blog Profile; Blog because it's more for fun, &, AFAIK, some are uncomfortable with the idea, for various reasons.

But yeah. Outside of scaling them to others, if I had to find a way to give Composite Pokemon Trainer Protagonist solid stats, I'd do it by basing it on what Pokemon they mandatorily obtain in the games. Which, aside from a variety of Egg Pokemon -assuming they hatch them; There's sort of story reasons for most mandatory eggs to be assumed to be hatched, but not for them to not be hatched- is mostly Reshiram/Zekrom, a Lucario from Korrina, & Solgaleo/Lunala.

Still, even not composite.... S/M Protagonist. Memorized Z-Moves, all the hax Affection gives their Pokemon.... Not to mention them becoming Champion. Also, around the time of the battle with Mount Molayne, Kukui says: "Yeah, I think (s)he's even stronger than we were at this point of our island challenge!" (Roughly paraphrasing a bit, text from https://projectpokemon.org/research/sunmoon/storytext.txt )

So they're definitely an exceptional trainer, but what protagonist isn't?

Incidentally, I love some of the Affectio text. Did you know that Pokemon can melt themselves free of being frozen solid with their sheer fiery determination alone? In fact, they can cure themselves of any non-volatile status condition, & do so just so you/their trainer won't worry!

Not to mention survive attacks that'd otherwise KO, just so the trainer won't feel sad, landing crits just for praise/being in sync with the trainer's wishes....

Oh & did you know that apparently the S/M protagonist has Reaction Speed close to that of the Pokemon themselves?

4 Avoiding an attack <Pokémon> read <Trainer>'s mind and avoided the move!XYORAS
<Pokémon> avoided the move in time with your shout!SM
(I'd assume for Gen 6, "read trainer's mind" is more along the lines of "knew exactly what their trainer would want them to do & how", as opposed to actual mind-reading.)

The S/M protagonist can shout fast enough for their Pokemon to notice & still have time to avoid incoming moves, going by that.

Affection so hax. (Although Pokemon can't actually benefit from Affection while Mega Evolved.).

(Oh & the S/M Protagonist also has incredible visual memorization skills, IMHO, for being able to remember ALL the Z-Move poses they learn & being able to execute them on a whim.)
 
Can I ask? What pray tell are these revisions for the trainers? I have my own ideas for trainer files tbh.
 
Ovrhide said:
Ive seen the walktrhough of the the game, and apperantly ultra necrozma previously provided light to many worlds. Including the different worlds of each specific UB. We just dont know what they mean by worlds, but based on what ive seen, ultra necrozma is able to provide light to an entire universe, or possibly more, if each ultra space location has a seperate space-time.
Click to expand...
Possibly each location of the ultra space are different universes, especially by the dimension of Guzzlord...
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I'm still shocked we don't have a Kukui page here yet :(
Click to expand...
That's for a good reason.

He's to powerful, he'll throw the entire site in chaos with his abs alone.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Lol @Kukui.

But for more serious question : SPreading light to Multiple Timelines (Debatably) counts for what tier ?
Click to expand...
Probably low 2-c, if it is multiple space-times. If its not, then maybe a solar system level necrozma at most.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
But for more serious question : SPreading light to Multiple Timelines (Debatably) counts for what tier ?
Click to expand...
Code: 
Tier 4-3 assuming he is filling multiple universes with light.
 
Well, apperantly the worlds arent seperate time-space. They thousands of light years away from each other. So necrozma can provide light to worlds at least thousands of light years away. I think thats pretty impressive.

If you want an estimation, one of the ultra beasts world is located about 2,000 light years away. So far thats the one i know of. Others might be closer or farther.
 
They are different worlds, the wormhole for them are light years apart though.


Ultra ruin is a good example.

Future, post apocalyptic if an already established place in game.
 
The real cal howard said:
My question is, if anyone fought Necrozma, say, Groudon, would it be an outlier?
Click to expand...
Yes, it's the same as bringing any legendaries to fight Darkrai/Arceus in the Post-Game.
 
It's very complicated, but i wanted to scale all the trainers based on level/point of the game when they are fought rather than scaling them to wild Pokémon in a route like S.O.S Salamence or Mawile in the beginnings.
 
I thought we already did that.

Anyway, I feel like you guys are making this waaay more complicated than it really should be. All of this is a simple fix.

Legendary Scaling: Only the ones who catch them should scale. No one else.

Story Scaling: The main trainer should have at least 3 keys to reflect their progress. Let's use Red here.

At least 9-B | At least 8-A, possibly Low 7-C | At least 6-C

Reasoning: (Should have multiple well trained Stage 1 Pokemon) | (At this point should have pretty powerful well trained Stage 02 Pokemon. Could fight the likes of Brock's Onix) | (Should have a team full of multiple Fully Evolved Pokemon capable of besting the Elite 4 in battle. This includes Pokemon such as Dragonite and Alakazam)

Keys: Beginning of Game | Late-Early Game to Mid Game | End Game

And let's say we allow Red to have the likes of Mewtwo or the birds.

Low 6-B | High 6-A

With the Legendary Birds | With Mewtwo

With this method Trainer files become very streamlined and easy to keep in order. The only thing you have to worry about is what Legendaries do we allow a Protagonist to have. Do we give him all Legendaries in game? Or just those that you have to catch? Once again, only the trainer scales. No one else.
 
I forgot to tell that Howard accepted the Alakazam Island level calc, which was ready to take the Pokémon league.

Red fought Pokèmon such as Onix, Starmie, Victrebeel and etc.
 
Yes, it's the same as bringing any legendaries to fight Darkrai/Arceus in the Post-Game.

Bro, I don't mean like that (otherwise you could scale the Birds to Mewtwo...although Articuno managed to wound Mewtwo enough to require a Recover). I mean if someone fights Necrozma like how Sky-Shaymin fought Giratina (I'm using an outlier fight for a reason)
 
Ok, i will post my idea of scaling for all regions. First Mode is my version. The Second Mode is based on the Pokémon trainers fought up to Seventh Gym.

Start Game [Close to First Gym]

Mode 1: 9-A. Transonic.

Mode 2: 8-B. Transonic [Bug Trainer Metapod].

First Gym

Mode 1: High 8-C+. Hypersonic.

Mode 2: 8-A+. Massively Hypersonic+ [Falkner Pidgeotto]

Second Gym

Mode 1: 8-A+. Massively Hypersonic+.

Mode 2: At least 7-A+. Sub-Relativistic [Misty Starmie]

Third Gym:

Mode 1: Low 7-C. Massively Hypersonic+.

Mode 2: Likely High 7-A. Sub-Relativistic stays until Eighth Gym.

Fourth Gym

Mode 1: 7-B. At least Massively Hypersonic+.

Mode 2: High 7-A

Fifth Gym

Mode 1: At least 7-A+. At least Massively Hypersonic+.

Mode 2: At least High 7-A

Sixth Gym

Mode 1: High 7-A. Sub-Relativistic.

Mode 2: At least High 7-A, likely higher.

Seventh Gym

Mode 1: At least High 7-A. Sub-Relativistic.

Mode 2: Likely 6-C.

Which version is the most accurate one to use?

Others

At least Sub-Relativistic. 6-C: Eighth Gym-Elite 4.

At least 6-C: Champion and Onwards.

High 6-C: Red, BW2 Gym Leaders.

At least High 6-C: BW 2 Champions.

Low 6-B: Basically most normal leggendaries.

At least Sub-Relativistic, likely higher. 6-B: Lugia, Ho-Oh, Landorus.

High 6-A: Groudon, Kyogre, Regis.

At least High 6-A: Mewtwo, Rayquaza, Deoxys.

At least High 6-A, likely higher: Mega Mewtwo, Zygarde.

Infinite 2-C: Darkrai, Cresselia and etc.

Note: Leggendaries showed are examples and US/UM feats are not listed but will likely affect those that fought with it and etc. depending on the form.

The things that i disagree [Colress]

- Scaling via S.O.S special Pokémon.

- A trainer without legendaries defeating trainers with them or ko'ing normal leggendaries, but one can catch them with enough luck.

- The trainers fights teams with leggendaries like Zinnia or Ghetsis.

- A weaker Pokémon injuring a much stronger one,

- Ash Pikachu constantly defeating leggendaries [Since he also gets constanly overpowered by Pokémon such as Magikarp, Snivy, Eevee, Persian, Electrivivre, S/M Team Rocket and etc.]

Trainers

10-C: Start Wally.

10-B: Everyone else.

10-A: Lt Surge, Ardos, Eldes.

9-C with Powers: Sabrina.

9-B: Bruno, Ash.

Superhuman: Running Shoes and 9-B's.
 
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