Tyranny Across Time: Solaris [Vol. 2, Pt. 1 - Sonic Revision Series]

[Robo432343]

asking someone to do their own research is never valid

 

[Theuser789]

asking someone to do their own research is never valid

Being entitled to the free works of others isn't valid, too.

 

[Theuser789]

I can tell to anyone in this thread right now if I went to other completed threads and started to stonewall them because I didn't think the evidence used was valid (despite not knowing anything about them) and I kept the thread going by rejecting all points because I thought the replies were "lacking", I would be reported, warned, and at worst banned.

I can guarantee this would happen. I would be shocked if it didn't.

 

[Greenshifter]

asking someone to do their own research is never valid

Actually it’s always valid because of how interpretations work, but I digress

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Actually it’s always valid because of how interpretations work, but I digress

Lol.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Lol.

@Greenshifter since you're here btw, mind doing a quick recap of the arguments presented?

 

[JED]

Easy agree to me

 

[Greenshifter]

@Greenshifter since you're here btw, mind doing a quick recap of the arguments presented?

Sure, Arabian Nights is made out of narratives because characters are described as literally characters and the world is visually made out of text and pages with this being acknowledged by the characters.

Thus affecting the world requires plot manipulation.

Solaris can affect the world thus gets plot manipulation.

“But higher-D erasure does that by default”
No it doesn’t, literal higher-D wank.

“Characters were going to burn the pages, so it’s physical”
The pages ARE the plot. It’s not even one book either, there’s multiple books containing Arabian Nights stories. But there’s only one Arabian Nights made out of pages and text.

“You’re just extrapolating based on visuals”
No? These things are stated too + if the spaghetti god transports you to a different world and you see spaghetti all around you in said world, wouldn’t that be sufficient to deduce the world is made out of spaghetti?

 

[Theuser789]

Easy agree to me

There's no reason to agree. This thread is already accepted. It's just being dragged because it being accepted "doesn't matter" if a staff member finds the evidence to be "lacking".

 

[Theuser789]

The pages ARE the plot. It’s not even one book either, there’s multiple books containing Arabian Nights stories. But there’s only one Arabian Nights made out of pages and text.

The physical pages of the book Sonic has at the start of the game don't even get affected even though Erazor is "absorbing" them. All that happens is that the text disappears, showing they are affecting the narrative, NOT the physical book. All the counter-arguments are gross misinterpretations of the game's plot.

 

[Greenshifter]

Like, is there even any information that confirms if someone blasted it normally, it'd be hunky dory?

“Hey look a soul! Quick John Wick, strangle it to death! Oh shoot that didn’t work, how could that be?”

This the kind of statement you’re looking for?

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Alright, a thanks to Greenshifter for the summary.

Sure, Arabian Nights is made out of narratives because characters are described as literally characters and the world is visually made out of text and pages with this being acknowledged by the characters.

Thus affecting the world requires plot manipulation.

Solaris can affect the world thus gets plot manipulation.

Yeah, basic logic. That's Plot EE (since Solaris' whole deal is erasing/destroying the world afaik).

"But higher-D erasure does that by default”
No it doesn’t, literal higher-D wank.

It does, here on VBW. The only exceptions are NEP nature 2 and probably ND type 3 and Transdualities.

"Characters were going to burn the pages, so it’s physical”
The pages ARE the plot. It’s not even one book either, there’s multiple books containing Arabian Nights stories. But there’s only one Arabian Nights made out of pages and text.

If those pages are the actual space-time fabric of the Arabian Nights, then yeah, I agree with you.

"You’re just extrapolating based on visuals”
No? These things are stated too + if the spaghetti god transports you to a different world and you see spaghetti all around you in said world, wouldn’t that be sufficient to deduce the world is made out of spaghetti?

VBW usually treats visuals as nothing more than supporting evidence 9/10 (at least, that's how it seems to work to me), but if there are statements to back them up then it shouldn't even be a debate.

 

[Greenshifter]

It does, here on VBW. The only exceptions are NEP nature 2 and probably ND type 3 and Transdualities.

If this is the case then Glass has a point, could you point me to where this was accepted? This doesn’t have to do with QS does it?

 

[Theuser789]

It does, here on VBW. The only exceptions are NEP nature 2 and probably ND type 3 and Transdualities.

I didn't know about this, too. If Solaris being 5D allows him to erase a world like the Arabian Nights, I will be fine with that. My main concern was just overturning a CRT using only "I don't like the evidence" as an argument.

 

[Greenshifter]

If Solaris being 5D allows him to erase a world like the Arabian Nights

Yeah it’d just be consistent at that point

 

[Greenshifter]

It does, here on VBW. The only exceptions are NEP nature 2 and probably ND type 3 and Transdualities.

Also didn’t know I have 2D plot destruction, pretty cool

 

[JJSliderman]

This tells me that you can affect the realm by affecting the pages and text. It doesn't tell me that an act of destroying the realm is automatically on the narrative level.

Of course, he's entering the world of Arabian stories from reality but like, if I entered a Shakespeare-inspired dimension from here it'd be described the same way.

The core issue II have here is that this somehow presumes the realm can only be destroyed in a narrative way when there doesn't seem to be anything here confirming that.

Except destroying the realm spatially is equivalent to destroying it on the narrative level, because they are one and the same. The space itself, is a narrative.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

If this is the case then Glass has a point, could you point me to where this was accepted? This doesn’t have to do with QS does it?

It's a thing for multiple abilities,such as NEP and Acausality Type 5.

Though the character is completely independent of causality to the point of being unaffected by any outside change, this only extends to as far as evidence shows and not to things beyond its feats. While true acausality such that one is completely unbounded by and independent from cause and effect in the philosophical sense is impossible to prove, lesser forms of the idea appear often in fiction.

Note: The aspects in which a character is not nonexistent in the common sense are what makes them into a 'living' character. As such, if a character with this power is reduced to a state in which they can't display any properties of something that exists (e.g. becomes unable to take any actions), they are effectively dead/erased. A consequence of that is that feats or special reasoning are required for a character with this ability to survive the complete erasure of their plane of existence, as one needs to confirm that they are able to still display some existent properties on a different plane of existence.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

It's a thing for multiple abilities,such as NEP and Acausality Type 5.

It's also been answered here.

State of Being vs Higher D Hax

Simple Question Let’s say that you have a Tier 10 up to Tier 2 (3-D up to 4-D) being with AE Type 1. They could be a conceptual abstract, information abstract, narrative abstract, whatever If a Tier 1 Hax completely nukes the mathematical dimensional plane of existence they reside on (in this...

vsbattles.com

 

[Greenshifter]

Ok so the reasoning is that “planes of existence are a big deal”? Very well I suppose.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Ok so the reasoning is that “planes of existence are a big deal”? Very well I suppose.

Yeah it's kinda disappointing from your POV ig (CSAP standards and all that), but it's how it works nowadays.

 

[Greenshifter]

It's also been answered here.

State of Being vs Higher D Hax

Simple Question Let’s say that you have a Tier 10 up to Tier 2 (3-D up to 4-D) being with AE Type 1. They could be a conceptual abstract, information abstract, narrative abstract, whatever If a Tier 1 Hax completely nukes the mathematical dimensional plane of existence they reside on (in this...

vsbattles.com

People mentioned incapacitation and QS in this thread and no true staff input was given. Though I suppose Glass himself could be considered a reliable source to confirm this.

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah it's kinda disappointing from your POV ig (CSAP standards and all that), but it's how it works nowadays.

I just don’t think I’d be able to hax lower-D beings like that, it’s just a size difference after all. If this was a Qualitative transcendence thing I’d more understand it.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I just don’t think I’d be able to hax lower-D beings like that. If this was a Qualitative transcendence thing I’d more understand it.

I think it's pretty much tied to that,as well. Lemme check the R-F page.

 

[Greenshifter]

I think it's pretty much tied to that,as well. Lemme check the R-F page.

There are no QS’s in Sonic’s cosmology

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

There are no QS’s in Sonic’s cosmology

Alright.

Then the Aca5 logic applies, I suppose. You can be abstract/nonexistent but you're still tied to the level of reality you've showed those feats in.

 

[Greenshifter]

K,
TLDR for Sonic Supporters;
Plot Erasure should be removed from Solaris’ page, it falls under his higher-D erasure by default.

 

[omegabronic]

this thread was already accepted and the grace period already ended, if anyone disagrees with it another thread needs to be created to say why you disagreed with the accepted thread

 

[Theuser789]

K,
TLDR for Sonic Supporters;
Plot Erasure should be removed from Solaris’ page, it falls under his higher-D erasure by default.

That's fair, then. A better explanation than it was given before.

 

[Greenshifter]

this thread was already accepted and the grace period already ended, if anyone disagrees with it another thread needs to be created to say why you disagreed with the accepted thread

Technically since the ability was already on Solaris’ page before the thread was made I’m not disagreeing with anything. I’m just saying it shouldn’t be mentioned on his page twice.

 

[Eseseso]

K,
TLDR for Sonic Supporters;
Plot Erasure should be removed from Solaris’ page, it falls under his higher-D erasure by default.

Fair, though that really should've been either mentioned earlier or put in another thread.

 

[Qawsedf234]

is YOUR job when you come after a thread is already concluded demanding for proof when you keep misinterpreting the arguments given again.

Thread is only concluded 48 hours after the last accepted vote. The last vote was Wednesday which is the same day they commented.

If anything the thread was actually prematurely applied.

 

[Theuser789]

Thread is only concluded 48 hours after the last accepted vote. The last vote was Wednesday which is the same day they commented.

I didn't knew about this rule. Apologies. Can you confirm if higher D erasure covers narrative erasure?

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Thread is only concluded 48 hours after the last accepted vote. The last vote was Wednesday which is the same day they commented.

If anything the thread was actually prematurely applied.

What? Since when? The only CRT grace (that I'm aware of) is from thread creation, not when the votes needed were reached

 

[Qawsedf234]

What? Since when? The only CRT grace (that I'm aware of) is from thread creation, not when the votes needed were reached

For all content revision suggestions, a grace period of 48 hours should be allowed for the reviewing staff members to evaluate and approve them.

The grace period is once its accepted.

 

[Theuser789]

I don't see the rules saying it's only when it's "accepted". It sounds like it's just when the thread is created.

Especially this part:

Until this grace period has elapsed since the time of the thread's creation, the revision should not be applied to the profiles.

 

[Eseseso]

Thread is only concluded 48 hours after the last accepted vote. The last vote was Wednesday which is the same day they commented.

If anything the thread was actually prematurely applied.

Pretty sure it's just 48 hours after the thread is made.

 

[Dereck03]

For all content revision suggestions, a grace period of 48 hours should be allowed for the reviewing staff members to evaluate and approve them. This grace period applies to both minor and self-evident revisions, as well as larger revisions that may require more input from other staff members. Until this grace period has elapsed since the time of the thread's creation, the revision should not be applied to the profiles.

Grace period start since thread's creation.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Pretty sure it's just 48 hours after the thread is made.

Grace is when the thread's finishing vote is put into place. It's not meant for just thread creation. It's what multiple staff threads were about.

To quote AKM

Pretty sure this was explicitly in reference to even after other staff had approved of this that there should be a 48-hour grace period even after overwhelming acceptance was found, so that any remaining staff members could give their two cents on something like this.

This is true.

 

[Theuser789]

Grace is when the thread's finishing vote is put into place. It's not meant for just thread creation. It's what multiple staff threads were about.

To quote AKM

This is cool and all, but the actual rules (and the post you linked from Damage) ONLY say it's after thread creation. I don't think a regular member should scour through old threads to "fully understand" what the rules might be saying.