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Tyki Mikk Vs Lille Barro - 7/3 - Grace

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I'll give the level of Tyki's NPI and Intang scaling since i heavily doubt anyone except Me, Gin and a couple other people even know D.Gray-Man, much less are knowledgeable on the series.

Tyki's NPI:

Allen's Base Innocence which can interact with souls < Miranda's Innocence < Road's Dark Matter < Tyki's Intang < Road's Intangibility < Tyki's "Choose" Ability.

Tyki's Intang:

Allen's Base Innocence which can interact with souls < Miranda's Innocence < Road's Dark Matter < Tyki's Intang.
 
speedster352 said:
X-axis gg since it's undodgeable
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It's consistently shown within the series that The X-Axis is only undodgeable while Lille is in his base form.

Shunsui constantly dodged and reacted towards The X-Axis after Lille used his Vollstandig.

Since this Second-Form Lille, Tyki Mikk can react to, dodge and even block Lille's attacks with his Dark Matter.

So that isn't a valid explanation on why Lille wins.

speedster352 said:
it can negate intangibility
Click to expand...
True.

Tyki can do the same with his Dark Matter and "Choose" ability.

So both have valid win-cons.
 
Deceived said:
It's consistently shown within the series that The X-Axis is only undodgeable while Lille is in his base form.

Shunsui constantly dodged and reacted towards The X-Axis after Lille used his Vollstandig.

Since this Second-Form Lille, Tyki Mikk can react to, dodge and even block Lille's attacks with his Dark Matter.

So that isn't a valid explanation on why Lille wins.


True.

Tyki can do the same with his Dark Matter and "Choose" ability.

So both have valid win-cons.
Click to expand...
I am still leaning towards lillie but I can't place a vote now I need more arguments
 
Honestly gonna have to vote for Tyki here.

He has the advantage when it comes to other hax, such as DM having layered hax which Lillie has no resistance to atm, such as atomic hax, the better soul Manipulation when it comes to layers and numbers, and having EE to make the cherry on top.


Both can interact with one another, so they're Intangbility is useless in this match. However Tyki can still use his Choose ability, not for defensive applications (At Least directly speaking, he can still use it to erase / repel oncoming attacks so while Phasing is out of the question he still has the literal choice of erasing Lillie's attacks.). Tyki also has some degree of a resistance to spatial manipulation since even SoE couldn't one shot him, and only technically resulted in Tyki entering an even stronger form.


Also if this turns into a battle of attrition I'd say Tyki takes it by virtue of being a Noah. Noah can persist as long as they feel negative emotions / hatred in the world, and as good as Lillie's stamina is the only people in Bleach who have a never ending suppy of stamina are rarities such as Aizen, Yhwach etc.


Also I'd bring up Skill but that's not very relevant here given that they're different types of combatants. Tyki is a hand to hand fighter primarily, while Lillie is a range based fighter so they both have the skill advantage in their own respective field so there isn't any "skill advantage." to really take advantage of.


Yeah voting The Noah of Pleasure with high difficulty.



You could also debate that if Tyki hits Lillie even once that the fight would be over. Quincy in Bleach are holy in nature, and Tyki can destroy holy based shit directly by just touching them.
 
speedster352 said:
Lillie can teleport and regen so he should be fine I vote lillie
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Tyki can also regenerate, and unlike Lillie Tyki is actually capable of overpowering Lillie's regeneration via Soul Manipulation of a greater degree and Matter Manipulation.


The X-Axis doesn't destroy the body in of itself, Tyki on the other hand has the ability to destroy Lillie's attacks and even Lillie himself due to verse equalization.
 
LordGinSama said:
Tyki can also regenerate, and unlike Lillie Tyki is actually capable of overpowering Lillie's regeneration via Soul Manipulation of a greater degree and Matter Manipulation.


The X-Axis doesn't destroy the body in of itself, Tyki on the other hand has the ability to destroy Lillie's attacks and even Lillie himself due to verse equalization.
Click to expand...
Lillie still has paralysis inducement and can spam trompete and light beams to overwhelm his regen and teleport. Lillie regen is low high
 
speedster352 said:
Lillie still has paralysis inducement and can spam trompete
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Trompete, Tyki can dodge easily or straight up erase.
speedster352 said:
and light beams to overwhelm his regen and teleport. Lillie regen is low high
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First of all, Tyki can counter Lillie's abilities. Lillie on the other hand cannot counter all of Tyki's abilities, only his Intangbility. Low-High is not recovering from Atomic and Soul Destruction.


And before you say "Lillie is resistant to Soul Manipulation." he isn't resistant on the level of Tyki's.
 
LordGinSama said:
Trompete, Tyki can dodge easily or straight up erase.

First of all, Tyki can counter Lillie's abilities. Lillie on the other hand cannot counter all of Tyki's abilities, only his Intangbility. Low-High is not recovering from Atomic and Soul Destruction.


And before you say "Lillie is resistant to Soul Manipulation." he isn't resistant on the level of Tyki's.
Click to expand...
No counter to paralysis inducement also bleach is getting upgrades in soul resistance and etc
 
AppleLord said:
Tiky needs both Soul Manipulation and Light Manipulation to affect Lille’s intangible light soul-body.
Click to expand...
Soul Manipulation for Tyki happens for all of his attacks, and he doesn't need light Manipulation either. He has layered NPI which is enough to interact with Lillie.


That's like me saying that if Kizaru could interact with Soul's then he'd beat the shit out of Lillie. First of all, Lillie doesn't have Soul based intangibility so this argument falls flat.
 
speedster352 said:
Even shunsui couldn't dodge it
Click to expand...
Shunsui isnt Tyki, and yes Shunsui did in fact dodge Lillie's Trumpet attack.
speedster352 said:
and it's invisible and has no warnings.
Click to expand...
Tyki can already react and see invisible shit. Lillie does have warnings, hence why you can telegraph attacks from him based on where he aims.
speedster352 said:
So Lillie stops him from moving and spams trompete and light beams
Click to expand...
Nope, countered and debunked. All of your arguments are moot, and I seriously doubt you've read all of Bleach. I on the other hand have been one of the wiki's biggest and most knowledgeable fans and can tell you that your wanking here.
 
LordGinSama said:
Soul Manipulation for Tyki happens for all of his attacks, and he doesn't need light Manipulation either. He has layered NPI which is enough to interact with Lillie.


That's like me saying that if Kizaru could interact with Soul's then he'd beat the shit out of Lillie. First of all, Lillie doesn't have Soul based intangibility so this argument falls flat.
Click to expand...
You said he can manipulate his soul, his soul is made of spiritual light which is different from Reishi what makes a soul in Bleach. That already negates Tiky Soul Manipulation until shown to be able to interact with light which is now what his body can transform into. Period.

Everyone in Bleach can touch souls, Shunsui who can touch intangible souls (Konpaku) per his job as a Shinigami can’t physical touch Lille‘s soul-body even when using energy attacks.

Lille is intangible to souls that can interact and touch intangible souls.
 
AppleLord said:
You said he can manipulate his soul, his soul is made of spiritual light which is different from Reishi what makes a soul in Bleach. That already negates Tiky Soul Manipulation until shown to be able to interact with light which is now what his body can transform into. Period.
Click to expand...
Again, irrelevant since Tyki can interact with anything that's of nature, including light. So you can keep writing but that doesn't negate his ability "Choose." which is also evident proof that you haven't read Tyki's profile. Period.

Read the profiles instead of wanking and downplaying as per usual. Tkyi can interact with light and souls casually so don't @ me.
AppleLord said:
Everyone in Bleach can touch souls, Shunsui who can touch intangible souls (Konpaku) per his job as a Shinigami can’t physical touch Lille‘s soul-body even when using energy attacks.
Click to expand...
So can everyone in D Gray-Man but to a higher degree? This isn't an argument, read the profiles since this is explained clearly.
AppleLord said:
Lille is intangible to souls that can interact and touch intangible souls.
Click to expand...
And so is Tkyi. Both have enough layered NPI, Deceived litteraly posted both of their NPI scaling which you ignored.
 
LordGinSama said:
Too bad Tyki has enough layers of NPI to interact with Lillie is this is a non argument.

Next argument, please because at the moment you have zero legitimate arguments.
Click to expand...
I don't see any Light Manipulation in his profile.
Enhanced Non-Physical-Interaction (Dark Matter can interact with Miranda’s Innocence, which can’t be interacted by Allen who can interact with Sand and Souls)
Click to expand...

NPI against souls alone won't cut it. Lille doesn't have Innocence. He is not only a soul that contains NP + his soul is also made of light which is different from what souls are made of.
 
AppleLord said:
I don't see any Light Manipulation in his profile.
Click to expand...
Light Manipulation doesn't allow you to interact with Lille's type of intang my guy.

Layered NPI allows you to interact with Lille and guess what Tyki has....... Layered NPI.

AppleLord said:
NPI against souls alone won't cut it. Lille doesn't have Innocence. He is not only a soul that contains NP + his soul is also made of light which is different from what souls are made of.
Click to expand...
I literally gave you the scaling chain for Tyki's NPI.

Read it, Lille is being interacted with by Tyki.
 
Deceived said:
Light Manipulation doesn't allow you to interact with Lille's type of intang my guy.

Layered NPI allows you to interact with Lille and guess what Tyki has....... Layered NPI.
Click to expand...
NPI with Sand and Souls. Yes. No NPI to light + souls. He is missing one feat.
Deceived said:
I literally gave you the scaling chain for Tyki's NPI.

Read it, Lille is being interacted with by Tyki.
Click to expand...
I'm blind because I can't see it.
 
AppleLord said:
NPI with Sand and Souls. Yes. No NPI to light + souls. He is missing one feat.
Click to expand...
Layered NPI is Layered NPI dude, just because Lille is spiritual light doesn't mean anything towards his Intang against someone with Layered NPI on the spiritual level.

Tyki's "Choose" also allows him the ability to interact with light so that doesn't matter even discounting my previous argument.

He's being interacted with.

AppleLord said:
I'm blind because I can't see it.
Click to expand...
🗿

It's literally one of the first post in this thread.

Scroll up.
 
Deceived said:
Layered NPI is Layered NPI dude, just because Lille is spiritual light doesn't mean anything towards his Intang against someone with Layered NPI on the spiritual level.

Tyki's "Choose" also allows him the ability to interact with light so that doesn't matter even discounting my previous argument.

He's being interacted with.


🗿

It's literally one of the first post in this thread.

Scroll up.
Click to expand...
Can you post scans of Tyki touching light but not normal light. Spiritual light. Made different from light. I'll wait for the evidence. I don't accept anything less than a simple feat or statement. I'm not taking assumptions as proof. That is NLF.
 
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