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TSSDK Regeneration Upgrade (WN & LN)

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LN Diablo profile lacks explanations about it regen, would be good to put the explanation on the profile, saying that it envolves Disintegration
 
I'm not continuing to do this, sorry. Arguing with anime is exhausting and it seems the "I'm not arguing for High-Godly" thing is indeed a fluke.

Good luck, Witch, may ye be a superior stalwart compared to me.
 
Jesus, I really should’ve paid more attention to my own thread if this was happening.

Now, I can’t actually argue things that have been accepted. But that’s fine, I’ll wait till Vol 17, this can be closed, and Mid-Godly will be applied.
 
This thread's kind of a mess. I'll try to give my thoughts and summarize the points in an attempt to make things clear and cohesive. Note: This are all from the LN. So results of your judgment about my post is LN-exclusive, although there might be similarities with the WN, so some of the things I will bring up can still be relevant for WN profiles (especially the QUERIES part). If I get something wrong, please correct me.

Arguments for High-Godly
Basically, these are the key terms for this topic:
  • Information Particles: described as the smallest physical unit (doesn't mean literal physical), a substance smaller than even ‘spirit particles’, and was close to having no mass at all. All matter in the world contains it. Rimuru's Wisdom King Raphael has the ability to manipulate information particles to either combine or abolish Skills.[Volume 11]
    • Spirit Particles: is the special particle that makes up magicule (or magic atom, so it's kinda like electrons?), its motion is extremely hard to predict. The spirit particles can move through the barrier of space and time (hence why it could bypass Rimuru's Absolute Defense which "severs space in both sides"). [Volume 7]
    • Skills: Abilities etched in the soul (more-so, this refers to Unique and Ultimate Skills) [Volume 1]. As implied, Skills are also made up of Information Particles, so Skills are basically information etched in the soul.
    • Note: Unlike the WN, there is nothing (that I know of) in the LN that states that information particles make up concepts as well. (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong).
  • Soul/Core: Should be self-explanatory and already explained. Like Skills, souls or the core is also made up of Information Particles (though it might be better if there's a scan for this, I can't find one from the LN). IIRC, this is how a Manas (theosophy core) was created by Raphael, which are information particle entities.
  • Disintegration/Melt Slash: Already explained, it's a holy attack that destroys everything from cells to souls. It utilizes holy/spirit particles, thus also destroys spirit particles. Now, the reason it's related to High Godly regeneration is that it can destroy Ultimate Skills (specifically, when Hinata destroyed Rimuru's "Beelzebub" in Volume 7). Thus it's being argued that those who can regenerate from Disintegration/Melt Slash can get High Godly Regeneration.
In extension, those who can regenerate after their souls/core are destroyed are being argued to have High Godly regeneration as well.
Beings who are described to have this feature are:
  • True Dragons: it has been described that True Dragons can "come back" even if their souls/core are destroyed. It is implied that Veldora died this way multiple times. However, their personalities get reset after death. These people don't have LN profiles yet.
  • Primordial Demons: According to Rain (Blue Primordial), Primordials can come back from any condition/cannot be destroyed. Including destruction of their core. The downside is it takes a long time for them to recover (except for Diablo/Primordial Black, who is implied to be capable of coming back instantly), and that they can be made subservient if they get killed by soul destruction (though this is not enforceable as servitude, they can disobey if they want to). [Volume 17] The only one among them who has an LN profile is Diablo.
  • Other demons: specifically, those who are close to the primary colors, i.e. Primordial Demons. These are usually their direct subordinates. [Volume 17].
In summary, the basis of High Godly Regeneration is information particles, wherein there are characters who can regenerate damage from attacks that destroys information particles, and/or come back from their souls/core which is made up of information being destroyed.
This is limited to Rimuru, the Primordials, and True Dragons (LN).

Queries
With all of that clarified (to the best of my ability), these are the most important queries that is prevalent in this thread:
  1. Is "Information Particles" enough basis to qualify as High Godly? This is the most important thing in this discussion. Personally, I'm uncertain. But what I'm certain of is a lot of the sentiment that pushing for High Godly is due to how it's treated in the site. If it's not going to be accepted, High Godly standards should probably be clarified, and be made stricter.
    1. If yes, then does the destruction of the soul equate to destruction of information particles, thus count as High Godly regeneration? This one is a bit iffy. IMO it needs more context.
  2. Is this really regeneration of just Immortality Type 4? Certainly, aside from Rimuru, the rest of them are statements about "coming back" which may imply more on being reborn/resurrected than reforming/regenerating. Though personally, disagree with it not being regeneration, purely because the only way I can envision the way High Godly regeneration works is essentially the same as "coming back" which is manifesting again from nothingness, which is technically resurrection in a way. Of course, I could be wrong and one can argue otherwise.
  3. Is Rimuru's feat actually qualified for High Godly? As the others have pointed out, while Rimuru suffered the attack, he was never completely destroyed by Melt Slash. This is the statements about him taking Melt Slash:
The moment I cancelled out Hinata’s skill, I consumed a massive amount of magicule. Converting to damage, I’ve lost more than seventy percent of it in a go.
Click to expand...
Hold on? Wisdom King Raphael-san wouldn’t make such dangerous gambit, so could it be…

—That even if I didn’t use “Gluttonous King Beelzebub” to cancel the attack, I wouldn’t be killed even when hit by “Melt Slash” head on?

<<Answer. Of course not. Speculate to consume massive amount of magicule, however, the physical body can be instantly revived through “Endless Regeneration”.>>
Click to expand...
The issues here are
1. The attack was cancelled by Beelzebub. It did drain Rimuru 70% of his magicules but it's unclear whether there was actual damage on his physical body or soul at all. Someone with a better understanding of what happened can explain this part if they can.
2. Raphael notes "physical body" which might be contradictory. If it said "soul" then this particular could've been the strongest evidence for high godly regeneration for Demon Lord Rimuru. Perhaps checking the raws might clear it up?

Personally, I agree with compromising with Mid Godly for the characters stated in the conclusion above, until or unless there are more definitive evidence of High Godly.
Of course, if people have better arguments or if I got something wrong or missing, I'll concede.

Apologies if this post is too lengthy, unnecessary or too late to the party.

EDIT: Made a few edits to make the composition better.
 
Last edited:
Metalballrun said:
This thread's kind of a mess. I'll try to give my thoughts and summarize the points in an attempt to make things clear and cohesive. Note: This are all from the LN. So results of your judgment about my post is LN-exclusive, although there might be similarities with the WN, so some of the things I will bring up can still be relevant for WN profiles (especially the QUERIES part). If I get something wrong, please correct me.

Arguments for High-Godly
Basically, these are the key terms for this topic:
  • Information Particles: described as the smallest physical unit (doesn't mean literal physical), a substance smaller than even ‘spirit particles’, and was close to having no mass at all. All matter in the world contains it. Rimuru's Wisdom King Raphael has the ability to manipulate information particles to either combine or abolish Skills.[Volume 11]
    • Spirit Particles: is the special particle that makes up magicule (or magic atom, so it's kinda like electrons?), its motion is extremely hard to predict. The spirit particles can move through the barrier of space and time (hence why it could bypass Rimuru's Absolute Defense which "severs space in both sides"). [Volume 7]
    • Skills: Abilities etched in the soul (more-so, this refers to Unique and Ultimate Skills) [Volume 1]. As implied, Skills are also made up of Information Particles, so Skills are basically information etched in the soul.
    • Note: Unlike the WN, there is nothing (that I know of) in the LN that states that information particles make up concepts as well. (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong).
  • Soul/Core: Should be self-explanatory and already explained. Like Skills, souls or the core is also made up of Information Particles (though it might be better if there's a scan for this, I can't find one from the LN). IIRC, this is how a Manas (theosophy core) was created by Raphael, which are information particle entities.
  • Disintegration/Melt Slash: Already explained, it's a holy attack that destroys everything from cells to souls. It utilizes holy/spirit particles, thus also destroys spirit particles. Now, the reason it's related to High Godly regeneration is that it can destroy Ultimate Skills (specifically, when Hinata destroyed Rimuru's "Beelzebub" in Volume 7). Thus it's being argued that those who can regenerate from Disintegration/Melt Slash can get High Godly Regeneration.
In extension, those who can regenerate after their souls/core are destroyed are being argued to have High Godly regeneration as well.
Beings who are described to have this feature are:
  • True Dragons: it has been described that True Dragons can "come back" even if their souls/core are destroyed. It is implied that Veldora died this way multiple times. However, their personalities get reset after death. These people don't have LN profiles yet.
  • Primordial Demons: According to Rain (Blue Primordial), Primordials can come back from any condition/cannot be destroyed. Including destruction of their core. The downside is it takes a long time for them to recover (except for Diablo/Primordial Black, who is implied to be capable of coming back instantly), and that they can be made subservient if they get killed by soul destruction (though this is not enforceable as servitude, they can disobey if they want to). [Volume 17] The only one among them who has an LN profile is Diablo.
  • Other demons: specifically, those who are close to the primary colors, i.e. Primordial Demons. These are usually their direct subordinates. [Volume 17].
In summary, the basis of High Godly Regeneration is information particles, wherein there are characters who can regenerate damage from attacks that destroys information particles, and/or come back from their souls/core which is made up of information being destroyed.
This is limited to Rimuru, the Primordials, and True Dragons (LN).

Queries
With all of that clarified (to the best of my ability), these are the most important queries that is prevalent in this thread:
  1. Is "Information Particles" enough basis to qualify as High Godly? This is the most important thing in this discussion. Personally, I'm uncertain. But what I'm certain of is a lot of the sentiment that pushing for High Godly is due to how it's treated in the site. If it's not going to be accepted, High Godly standards should probably be clarified, and be made stricter.
  2. Is this really regeneration of just Immortality Type 4? Certainly, aside from Rimuru, the rest of them are statements about "coming back" which may imply more on being reborn/resurrected than reforming/regenerating. Though personally, disagree with it not being regeneration, purely because the only way I can envision the way High Godly regeneration works is essentially the same as "coming back" which is manifesting again from nothingness, which is technically resurrection in a way. Of course, I could be wrong and one can argue otherwise.
  3. Is Rimuru's feat actually qualified for High Godly? As the others have pointed out, while Rimuru suffered the attack, he was never completely destroyed by Melt Slash. This is the statements about him taking Melt Slash:


The issues here are
1. The attack was cancelled by Beelzebub. It did drain Rimuru 70% of his magicules but it's unclear whether there was actual damage on his physical body or soul at all. Someone with a better understanding of what happened can explain this part if they can.
2. Raphael notes "physical body" which might be contradictory. If it said "soul" then this particular could've been the strongest evidence for high godly regeneration for Demon Lord Rimuru. Perhaps checking the raws might clear it up?

Personally, I agree with compromising with Mid Godly for the characters stated in the conclusion above, until or unless there are more definitive evidence of High Godly.
Of course, if people have better arguments or if I got something wrong or missing, I'll concede.

Apologies if this post is too lengthy, unnecessary or too late to the party.

EDIT: Made a few edits to make the composition better.
Click to expand...
The High-Godly Regeneration for Rimuru and Primordials is i believe has been accepted in past CRT.

Regarding "Regenerate His physical body" IMO its refers to his complete existence. I mean even Spirits particles and Information particles is called physical unit in verse, spirit particles is what makes soul and spiritual life-form and also intangible. Even then the description of Melt slash is to erase from Cell to souls, even skills or everything and leave nothing behind, so by that alone the statement "regenerate physical body" refers to only his "physical" body is doesn't make any sense.
 
Last edited:
Makenai said:
The High-Godly Regeneration for Rimuru and Primordials is i believe has been accepted in past CRT.
Click to expand...
Yes, it was done in this thread. But I thought the topic was being revisited. Since the majority of the debate in this thread revolves around information particles which is the basis on the old thread as well.
Do note I'm only speaking for LN profiles, not WN since that's not my expertise.
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Everyone else, Mid-Godly.
Click to expand...
Which characters exactly are you referring to "everyone else" here that gets Mid-Godly? It's a bit confusing.
 
Metalballrun said:
Yes, it was done in this thread. But I thought the topic was being revisited. Since the majority of the debate in this thread revolves around information particles which is the basis on the old thread as well.
Do note I'm only speaking for LN profiles, not WN since that's not my expertise.
Click to expand...
Nah, the Topic is about about destroying soul is equal to destroying Information particles. Which i'm pretty sure it's being rejected.
 
Makenai said:
Nah, the Topic is about about destroying soul is equal to destroying Information particles. Which i'm pretty sure it's being rejected.
Click to expand...
If that's the case then that would still affect some of the profiles considering that some of the High Godly regeneration relies on statements about characters coming back after getting their soul destroyed. Especially in the LN.
 
Metalballrun said:
If that's the case then that would still affect some of the profiles considering that some of the High Godly regeneration relies on statements about characters coming back after getting their soul destroyed. Especially in the LN.
Click to expand...
For LN only Diablo and Rimuru who have High-Godly.
 
Makenai said:
For LN only Diablo and Rimuru who have High-Godly.
Click to expand...
I already made my case with this in the Queries part of my post.
I'm neutral with infons being a basis for High Godly so whatever was voted/agreed upon can be applied or stay.
But I'm also questioning Rimuru actually regenerating from Melt Slash.
As for Diablo, we don't really have much evidence that he has High Godly so far.
 
Metalballrun said:
I already made my case with this in the Queries part of my post.
I'm neutral with infons being a basis for High Godly so whatever was voted/agreed upon can be applied or stay.
But I'm also questioning Rimuru actually regenerating from Melt Slash.
As for Diablo, we don't really have much evidence that he has High Godly so far.
Click to expand...
If you go that way, then pretty much most of ability in this wiki are invalid.
Like only accept feats and didn't accept statement?

Did Anos ever destroyed more than 1001 universes? Did Rimuru ever create and destroy 10.000 universes? No, those all come from statement.

If we can't trust information from Raphael then pretty much we can't trust any other tensura's character statement, moreover Diablo's case is being stated by narration itself. I don't know if this Wiki is that strict to the point its sounds dumb.
 
Makenai said:
If you go that way, then pretty much most of ability in this wiki are invalid.
Like only accept feats and didn't accept statement?
Click to expand...
Nobody is making that kind of argument. Strawman arguments will only derail the thread.

Nobody is questioning the validity of Raphael's statements. Refer to Query #3.

As for LN Diablo, please provide anything from the "narration" that explicitly describes Diablo having High Godly regeneration. Because I'm quite certain that there isn't any, only a conjecture that Diablo can regenerate from Disintegration when nothing of the sort is even implied in Volume 11.
"But Diablo was using Disintegration" Diablo being able to use an attack doesn't mean he can regenerate from getting hit by that attack, on top of the fact that Rain, who was Diablo's opponent, couldn't use Disintegration.
This conjecture would be more palatable if we had Guy Crimson imply that he will use Disintegration against Diablo, but there isn't any implication of that as of now.

Like I said, if Query #1 and #1.1 is approved as a valid basis of High Godly, or if we're sticking to the old CRT which approved this, then the Primordials will get High Godly regen. I'd still like Query #3 to be addressed by someone else, though, even if I did agree that this is a high godly regen feat in the past.
 
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The feat is, at best, Mid-Godly. I would say how we judge 'information particles' would have to vary on a case-by-case basis. Depending on the context of the general power scale and system it could fall among the Godly's. Here it seems Mid-Godly at best.
 
Okay. Thank you for the evaluation. We should preferably go with that solution then.
 
I think that what Promestein intended is that nobody should have High-Godly, but may have misunderstood.
 
Last edited:
Antvasima said:
I think that what Promestein intended is that nobody should have High-Godly, but may have misunderstood.
Click to expand...
He maybe is talking about the spiritua lifeforms, because that is what the OP wanted to do, and Indeed, the spiritual lifeforms does not qualify to high-godly
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Antvasima said:
What is Rimuru's regeneration feat?
Click to expand...
He was established to be able to regenerate from conceptual destruction. He was said to be able to regenerate from melt slash which destroys his information particles. Information particles makes up his concept. Another feat that backs this up his him surviving and conceptual destruction at a point in the story.
 
Do we know as an absolute certainty that he was absolutely annihilated from existence on a conceptual level, or is it based on speculation?
 
Alphaapexnep00 said:
He was established to be able to regenerate from conceptual destruction. He was said to be able to regenerate from melt slash which destroys his information particles. Information particles makes up his concept. Another feat that backs this up his him surviving and conceptual destruction at a point in the story.
Click to expand...
This was agreed to be mid godly in this case
 
Well, first of all, indeed, rimuru wasnt actually hit, but even if he was, Raphael stated that it wouldnt be a problem because Rimuru has ''Endless Regeneration''
d4964d8178ccb2018b71b00f197264f9.jpg
 
This thread has lost its meaning with two different topics being juggled around in tandem, leading to no one having a damn clue what is currently being debated and what arguments belong to where.

I say we wrap up the matter at hand which is mid godly for relevant characters, as anyone has agreed to that. We will talk about Rimuru's and other god tiers High Godly in a different thread. Im getting conflicting arguments due to in of itself delrailed topics and nothing productive will come out of this.

Anything past this post shall please be about the topic at hand, we will deal with the reexamination of Rimuru's and co' High Godly in another thread.
 
First_Witch said:
This thread has lost its meaning with two different topics being juggled around in tandem, leading to no one having a damn clue what is currently being debated and what arguments belong to where.

I say we wrap up the matter at hand which is mid godly for relevant characters, as anyone has agreed to that. We will talk about Rimuru's and other god tiers High Godly in a different thread. Im getting conflicting arguments due to in of itself delrailed topics and nothing productive will come out of this.

Anything past this post shall please be about the topic at hand, we will deal with the reexamination of Rimuru's and co' High Godly in another thread.
Click to expand...
I agree this thread wasn't well planned.
 
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