Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Revision

[Rizkykarbit]

For some reason a scan didn't get uploaded or was removed [This happens a lot with me for some reason] from the imgur link. In any case, it was explicitly stated that Reaction speed is also constant in thsi case. Additionally, interfering with Information Particles allows you to maintain your vision in Suspended World, and Raphael can indeed do that. On the same note, It was stated that Rimuru couldn't "react" to Michael's attack because he couldn't "move" in Suspended World, as he wasn't a DLF at the time, but that should cease to be the problem afterwards or for other DLFs.
For why "Immeasurable speed" in particular? Its because first of all, we already have immeasurable speed accepted for the verse for Digital Lifeforms in a previous thread. Additionally, as already laid out in this blog, Information particles can move to different points in time. Additionally, their speed is "constant", so the argument that they only have such speed in Suspended World, or the argument that it should only be infinite speed in Suspended World because they're not moving in time, is Invalid. In the first place, time doesn't flow in Suspended World, so there's no "time" to move in.

A futile explanation. It doesn't matter whether the Information particle gets an Immeasurable baseline or above baseline rating. Rimuru and the others never dodged or reacted to attacks that came directly from other timelines, so stop to bring combat and reaction speed here.

Once again I say, no matter how often they see or avoid the Information Particle, if the avoided Information particle does not come from the future or the past then it is useless, so stop debating it because that's not the way to get both.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

It getting more strict now day, you must prove he was changeless because he outside cause and effect, not just take some proof about outside cause and effect and take another proof for being changeless, without prove them interconnected

both of them are from the same volume, the same chapter, and both describing the Will's omnipotence, they can be interconnected.

For source you can check Volume 16

Can you show me the thread that accepting that blog?? Honestly i not found that thread. Espesically for the duality part

I wanted to but when I click on "related discussion threads" in the profile it always gives me the same error

Oops! We ran into some problems.​

The requested page could not be found.

So given that they were mentioned in the official, I assumed they were accepted, because well, they wouldn't be mentioned in the page without them being accepted. I also don't keep track of all the threads, at least not the ones not done by me.

And yeah even if if true that still not general duality

I have already explained how it is the general duality in the OP

This is out of topic but when i search for that thread, i found something interesting honestly. But can you also show me the thread that accepted veldanava profile in LN

below you

Transduality requires "qualitative transcendence", that is, dimensional transcendence in terms of power. I opened a revision to change this but DT said that for Transduality, you have to be dimensionally superior to dualities in the first place in terms of power, Arceus is, and this is not something that happens in Veldavana. (For example, if dualities are 4-D, you have to be 5-D in terms of power for TD in the first place) This is not something I personally agree with but these are the standards.

Both have the similar logic behind their qualitative superiority, that their consciousness holds the entire cosmology.

Td also means giving him Low 1-C in terms of power. But the expression you have is definitely not enough for that. Also, God's holding them by his will is not considered as qualitative transcendence. It is not even considered as lack of duality

If it means we have to give a Low 1-C rating to even accept Transduality in this case, sure, I can change the OP for that too.

A futile explanation. It doesn't matter whether the Information particle gets an Immeasurable baseline or above baseline rating.

Did I even mention anything like "above baseline" here???

Rimuru and the others never dodged or reacted to attacks that came directly from other timelines, so stop to bring combat and reaction speed here.

Immeasurable speed is also given for being able to move in time freely via physical movement, you're specifically limiting it to being only applicable for "came directly from other timelines"

Also, again, Rimuru before being a DLF tried to react to Michael's attack but couldn't, the important part is the reason why, which is because he wasn't a DLF yet, so he couldn't "move" in suspended world, thus, he should be able to react to his attacks after becoming a DLF and being able to "move" in suspended world

Once again I say, no matter how often they see or avoid the Information Particle, if the avoided Information particle does not come from the future or the past then it is useless, so stop debating it because that's not the way to get both.

again, the blog already proves information particle can travel in time, from the future to the past or to any point in time, so your argument is useless here, especially when the speed for information particle is constant.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

No, we are certainly not making such an assumption. Just look at other revisions. The reason why E12 changed it is because we used to assume that, but we no longer do. The verse needs to explain this by showing it with feats

can you please link the revision? Apologies for the inconvenience

That doesn't sound like a layer

A layer is exactly an ability working on someone that resists it. For example, law manip working on someone that's stated to resist law manip grants this law manip that effects that person, 1 layer. So I don't see how this isn't a layer.

Anyways, am preparing for a message to post in Layered evaluation thread for this rn in any case

 

[CodeCCLL]

Once again I say, no matter how often they see or avoid the Information Particle, if the avoided Information particle does not come from the future or the past then it is useless, so stop debating it because that's not the way to get both.

No, just think about that, there is no such thing as past and future in the perception of characters who have an immeasurable speed of struggle and reaction, and therefore speed of perception, they already move beyond linear time, so narrative does not/does not have to include this when it explains events from the perspective of characters who already have an immeasurable speed of perception.. If you are having a hard time understanding what this means, look at the explanations of the verses that have the most obvious immeasurable speed and immeasurable speed based scaling, you will understand what I mean.

 

[Theglassman12]

Yeah I'm not seeing type 5 Acausality there, nothing mentions he's unchangeable as a result of being outside of cause and effect.

The transduality I'm not exactly understanding the argument here, is it because the fact that he created everything from the moment he was born and made everything that he lacks these dual natures? I don't think that would be enough, he'd need to be just outside of the dual nature of light and darkness and other stuff for him to be transdual in the first place. Though the description at best makes it implied to be nondual instead of transdual since he's mentioning everything's a part of him, so he doesn't transcend the dual nature in a sense that he can't be brought back down to those dual natures.

High godly idk why you're pushing that when I already explained that's Mid godly at best if information still exists in the individual.

The rest I don't particularly care for.

 

[Georredannea15]

Both have the similar logic behind their qualitative superiority, that their consciousness holds the entire cosmology.

Then read this post by DT and see what "qualitative superiority" in Transduality means. It must represent a true transcendence

can you please link the revision? Apologies for the inconvenience

Type 5 Acausality Rewording

I have noticed for some time now that people seem to have issues understanding Type 5 Acausality and the requirements for acquiring it, with multiple people citing that the Acausality page itself is unclear and sometimes even seemingly contradicted by staff in their judgements. So based off my...

vsbattles.com

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Yeah I'm not seeing type 5 Acausality there, nothing mentions he's unchangeable as a result of being outside of cause and effect.

the supposed "Omnipotent and Omniscient" Veldanava[which refers to god] should be changeless because he "threw away" his omnipotence and became Veldanava only to experience change, but at the same time, 'god' and 'Veldanava' are not the same being and exist independently of each other

The transduality I'm not exactly understanding the argument here, is it because the fact that he created everything from the moment he was born and made everything that he lacks these dual natures? I don't think that would be enough, he'd need to be just outside of the dual nature of light and darkness and other stuff for him to be transdual in the first place. Though the description at best makes it implied to be nondual instead of transdual since he's mentioning everything's a part of him, so he doesn't transcend the dual nature in a sense that he can't be brought back down to those dual natures.

he didn't create or made everything, he was everything, or well, his "consciousness" was, so basically his consciousness/mind holds the cosmology which includes the dualities

High godly idk why you're pushing that when I already explained that's Mid godly at best if information still exists in the individual.

I mentioned another argument in a previous post, so its not entirely that only, and also proposed in that post that it could be limited HGR or something

 

[Mizuki67]

the supposed "Omnipotent and Omniscient" Veldanava[which refers to god] should be changeless because he "threw away" his omnipotence and became Veldanava only to experience change, but at the same time, 'god' and 'Veldanava' are not the same being and exist independently of each other

he didn't create or made everything, he was everything, or well, his "consciousness" was, so basically his consciousness/mind holds the cosmology which includes the dualities

I mentioned another argument in a previous post, so its not entirely that only, and also proposed in that post that it could be limited HGR or something

Stop pushing something you don't even understand
This isn't acca5
Your scans doesn't really explain much either

 

[Theglassman12]

yeah still not telling me much on acausality when it just talks about his own world being uninteresting.

That still doesn't tell me much on him being unbound from dualities.

That's not even limited HGR when the user still dies from the core being gone. It's MGR at best.

 

[Mizuki67]

That's not even limited HGR when the user still dies from the core being gone. It's MGR at best.

Yeah, it also says they die permanently if they do lose their core, and they only regen overtime from their core, so its MGR overtime like we keep telling OP, i think his aim is to wank, because nothing here except intelligence make sense

 

[Rizkykarbit]

No, just think about that, there is no such thing as past and future in the perception of characters who have an immeasurable speed of struggle and reaction, and therefore speed of perception, they already move beyond linear time, so narrative does not/does not have to include this when it explains events from the perspective of characters who already have an immeasurable speed of perception.. If you are having a hard time understanding what this means, look at the explanations of the verses that have the most obvious immeasurable speed and immeasurable speed based scaling, you will understand what I mean.

I know that because indeed in their sight, an attack from any time is the same as an ordinary attack. But what must be proven is that the object that comes to them is not just them. I will make an example of Character A who does not have Immeasurable and Character B who has Immeasurable. Character A will not get the same Combat or Reaction as Character B just because they both fight. If you do not care about me, you can confirm my statement to the staff or someone else.

Did I even mention anything like "above baseline" here???

Immeasurable speed is also given for being able to move in time freely via physical movement, you're specifically limiting it to being only applicable for "came directly from other timelines"

Also, again, Rimuru before being a DLF tried to react to Michael's attack but couldn't, the important part is the reason why, which is because he wasn't a DLF yet, so he couldn't "move" in suspended world, thus, he should be able to react to his attacks after becoming a DLF and being able to "move" in suspended world

again, the blog already proves information particle can travel in time, from the future to the past or to any point in time, so your argument is useless here, especially when the speed for information particle is constant.

Information Particle has indeed become Immeasurable but it won't always be like that because the narrative itself says it like that.

"No problem. 'It turns out that the Information isn't affected by time or space and can transmit information to any point in time. That means I can convey thoughts even in a stopped world.'" (vol 19)

The narrative mentions that he Information particle can transmit Information to all points in time, the word "Can" only means that he is capable and does not always happen.

"No problem. 'It turns out that the Information isn't affected by time or space and transmit information to any point in time. That means I can convey thoughts even in a stopped world.'" (vol 19)

If you omit the word "can" it means that the Information Particle always travels to any point in time when transmitting Information. Again the way to get Reaction and Combat speed is not like that, even if you don't agree with me the others will not agree with you and it indicates that what you give is wrong.

 

[Catpija]

[*]Rimuru (Demon Lord Key and afterwards) : Immeasurable perception speed and possibly attack speed (Via Raphael, Rimuru can observe Information Particles, and interact with them, such as moving those Information Particles back and fourth to establish communication inside Suspended World, and imprint his Will onto said Information Particles to attack; however, he still cannot move in Suspended World, and it is far less efficient to move Information Particles back and fourth compared to moving by himself as they do in the Real World, and resultantly, cannot defend against such attacks that utilize Information Particles[1][2])

This should be in the Ultimate Slime key, and Rimuru specifically needs to use 'Emergency Response Mode' in order to perceive its movement, so you need to specify that.

Probably, something like this.

FTL, Immeasureable perception speed with Emergency Response Mode (Via Ciel, Rimuru can ...)

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

This should be in the Ultimate Slime key, and Rimuru specifically needs to use 'Emergency Response Mode' in order to perceive its movement, so you need to specify that.

Probably, something like this.

I think that was the last appearance of Emergency Response Mode, unless it's on all the time now, since after Chloe retreated, Rimuru was able to fend off Michael, so would it be a permanent Emergency Response Mode?

 

[Fixxed]

both of them are from the same volume, the same chapter, and both describing the Will's omnipotence, they can be interconnected.

For source you can check Volume 16

Yeah still not enough, like i say it getting strict now day

So given that they were mentioned in the official, I assumed they were accepted, because well, they wouldn't be mentioned in the page without them being accepted. I also don't keep track of all the threads, at least not the ones not done by me.

I literally search that for 1 hours, and i dont found any thread that accepted that blog

I have already explained how it is the general duality in the OP

No it is not general duality, you even brought Yin and Yang, but there are no in your scan that stated about Yin and Yang

 

[Rizkykarbit]

Looks good to me

This should be in the Ultimate Slime key, and Rimuru specifically needs to use 'Emergency Response Mode' in order to perceive its movement, so you need to specify that.

Probably, something like this.

 

[Catpija]

I think that was the last appearance of Emergency Response Mode, unless it's on all the time now, since after Chloe retreated, Rimuru was able to fend off Michael, so would it be a permanent Emergency Response Mode?

That was also the first and only appearance. We don't know if it permanent or not, but the reason why Rimuru become able to fight Michael after that was because he turned himself into a Digital Lifeform.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Look man, one thing at a time, putting speed upgrade here was a big mistake, of course no one would want to grasp any of it, he even added layers to a non layer evaluation thread, i could help break it down but OP should remove this speed, layer and God upgrade and leave it at intelligence first, and remove the "infinite multiverse" thing that's not true just say "world" or universe, try to keep every wording simple and not too overhyped

Oh I see

 

[Worthless]

If you omit the word "can" it means that the Information Particle always travels to any point in time when transmitting Information. Again the way to get Reaction and Combat speed is not like that, even if you don't agree with me the others will not agree with you and it indicates that what you give is wrong.

Who is the others? In this case I agree with him

 

[CodeCCLL]

Yes, I know that only a few people (maybe no one will read it completely) who really care about the verse will read this, but no matter what, I cannot allow this thread to end with the comments of people who do not have enough knowledge about the verse itself or the wiki standards. So let's talk a little bit about the proposals before the staff/s comment further here.

Speed

Spoiler

The immeasurable speed of combat and reaction of the Digital Lifeforms now looks good to me because when the full context of the scans is examined, we see that explanations of the nature of the information particles are used entirely to explain the actions of Digital Lifeforms like Guy and Chloe as they fight each other.

What happens if you aim for the moment your sword hits the opponent?

<<That's what Guy and Chloe were doing when they were fighting.>>>

According to the quote, when the Digital Lifeforms Chloe and Guy are fighting each other, they are both aiming/attacking at a point where their swords have already hit each other. This suggests that Chloe's sword is attacking Guy's future at a point where Chloe has already hit Guy, and that Guy is doing the same against Chloe, but both are responding to each other's attacks on their futures due to their immeasurable speed and this is clearly support evidence for Digital Lifeforms immeasurable combat and reaction speed.

Intelligence

Spoiler

I don't know why you assume all magic users are in the same case as Yuuki in this regard.

World Language from pretty much the moment I was stabbed. There was definitely some kind of connection between Earth and this world it had to ride on. "Plus... You can cast magic, can't you, Rimuru?"

"Yeah," I replied to the sudden topic change, "I had a spell or two taught to me."

Yuuki squinted at me, jealous. "That sure is nice... I was really excited about magic, too, at first..."

As he put it, when he first came to this world, he both lamented his plight and fostered a deep fascination for the unknown force of magic. I was the same way. Anyone who's a fan of manga and anime must have wished they could toss around

magic at least once in their lives. "I wanted to learn some, but for some reason, I just couldn't do it. I think it's because of the way my body changed. It felt so, like, romantic, too, but no...
Yep. Something adventurous to it, isn't there? If something's right there at your fingertips, of course you'll wanna try it out. But Yuuki just didn't have the right characteristics for it. Reality sucks sometimes.

"Still, I can perform research into it. And what I found was that in this world, magic is the power to interfere with the laws of nature. There's a mysteri- ous set of laws to this world-people call them the World Language-and when you earn a new power, or the value of your life rises in some way, like when you evolve, then that's how nature tells you about it. Magie runs under the same rules as this World Language; when you cast the spell, it turns that nonphysi-

It is obvious that Yuuki is not in the same case as other magic users. Yuuki somehow couldn't do magic because he didn't have the right characteristics, but his desire for magic led his to research into it, the world language, the law of world.

Moreover, this feat of Yuuki is only at the level of Extraordinary Genius (like Diablo) because there is no way to even claim that understanding the Laws of the World and deciphering them one by one means processing all the information held by the Voice of the World, which covers the entire infinite multiverse. There is no evidence that even with an Ultimate Skill you can process infinite information.

The Sage was silent. No, a skill like that's just a fairy tale. Guess we'd just have to keep plugging away on that research. Yuuki gave me a wry grin. "Of course, I'd never have enough time to uncover all of it, I guess. I'd have to decipher and evaluate each of the laws, one by one."

As a result, we have no reason to put any magic user on the same level as Yuuki.

• Rimuru's DL Key : Supergenius (Raphael is capable of deciphering and unlocking Unlimited imprisonment in a single day, Unlimited Imprisonment is made of a complex number of Spatial Dimensions, which would have taken Great Sage and Veldora combined more than a hundred years, even though Great Sage's Intellect Level is Extraordinary Genius at the very least, possibly Supergenius via being able to understand and analyze all non-concealed Phenomenon including the Laws of the World, an Ultimate Skill has a far higher analyzing capacity than a mere Unique Skill)

It has already been clarified here that Unlimited Imprisonment is an metaphysical area rather than a real one.

Infinite Speed Rimuru (LET ME COOK!!🔥🔥)

But a weakness is given for the ability – telepathy (which somehow negates the idea of "physical infinite range") Infinite Range Telepathy fr 💯

vsbattles.com

Therefore, the intelligence rating based on the analysis of Unlimited Imprisonment is only sufficient for Extraordinary Genius.

Acausality Type 5 

Spoiler

First, let's see what we actually have.

"Everything has a cause and an effect, and if you figure out the laws behind all that, you might even be able to find a way home...is what you're saying?"

But, then again, it was Veldanava himself who had given the humans their desires. The result of this was a cycle of cause and effect, and it was only self-inflicted. That is why Feldway did not doubt that Veldanava was no longer omniscient and omnipotent.

Aren't you the Creator? If you're the god who created us, you oughtta be able to guide the world the way you want it. Why do you need to ask someone like me?"

"Ha-ha-ha! Well, because I'm not omnipotent. When I was born, all that existed was my will. It was complete, fully, not a piece missing to it-a flawless existence, where all was one and one was all. I was the only thing in the world. Doesn't that sound boring to you?"

A God who can guide the world as want with own will, which is independent of the laws that govern cause-effect relationships and that precedes the creation of said laws.

Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible.

The character is completely independent of causality to the point of being unaffected by any outside change.

Now let's look at the part of the requirements that concerns us, is there enough an evidence that God cannot be changed by any affect based on the system of causality (not an idealistic change as in the argument in the OP), is not affected by any outside changes or is described uninteractible? No, although God can direct causality at his own will, bind lower beings to the laws governing causality, and although himself is outside of creation (contains all these laws), essentially the relationship between God himself and causality has never been explained to a level that meets our requirements.

Transduality Type 2

Spoiler

I've talked enough about this already so I'll keep it basic, not every equivalent opposition is a duality at all, dualities are conceptual in nature and govern existing in reality so the only duality that I think meets the standards of duality is the duality of the Great Spirit of Light and Darkness and by current wiki standards God cannot qualify for Transduality without having a qualitative superiority over dualities. So I don't support anything beyond Nonduality Type 1 for God.

Magic

Spoiler

• Physics Manipulation (Elemental Magic alters the Laws of Physics[1])

This is good.

• Limited Causality Manipulation (The Laws of the World involve the Law of Causality, by which there's a Cause and effect behind everything; Yet Magic can bypass that process itself as it directly alters the Laws of Physics instead[2][3])

Physics manipulation itself can already bypass natural processes and change the results caused by the laws of physics, but this is still just physics manipulation.

Physical causality is a physical relationship between causes and effects. It is considered to be fundamental to all natural sciences and behavioural sciences, especially physics. Causality is also a topic studied from the perspectives of philosophy, statistics and logic.

Also, just because magic interferes with the laws of the world does not mean that magic can interfere with everything governed by the laws of the world; skills, unique skills, and ultimate skills all, manipulate the related parts of the laws of the world. For example, although law of worlds govern fate, we have certain characters such as Shion, Masayuki, and Veldanava who have Fate Manipulation skills.

• Acausality (Type 4; Elemental Magic works on Laws completely different than the natural Laws of the World including the Laws of Physics as well as the Law of Causality as it completely skips the process involved in Natural Phenomenon; In other words, something governed by the Natural Laws such as the power of Spirits , cannot effect Magic at all, a Flame started by Elemental Magic cannot be extinguished by normal water, nor does it go through the same process of Combustion as set by Chemical and Physical Laws[4][5]) -Strictly referring to Magic only as an ability, not a character
• Acausality Negation (Type 4; Anti-Magic Area prevents the usage of any other Magic[6], thus preventing Impact on the Laws of the World)
• Greater Acausality Negation (Type 4; Holy Field prevents purifies Magicules in the area and prevents the usage of Magic, which works on Laws different than the Natural Laws of the World and alters the very Laws of Physics, thus completely nullifying any possible attempt to impact the Laws of the Nature; Anti-Magic could be resisted by Multi-Layered Barrier, yet Holy Field bypasses that and effects beings regardless[7][8][9])

Elemental Magic you beginning claimed to have Acausality Type 4 has no relation to Acausality Type 4. The principle of Elemental Magic, which works differently from the laws of nature in the context, is due to Elemental Magic's law manipulation and physics manipulation, which ignores, and operates on the physical laws, physical causality, and is not affected by laws that already exist in the universe.

Also, regarding Acausality Type 4, it is not just being independent of physical cause and effect (we call these physical factors), it is being independent of all kinds of cause and effect relationships, unless you are independent from temporal cause-effect relationships, you will still be affected by the conventional fate manipulation, precognition and causality manipulation, which Acausality Type 4 is immune to by default.

Finally don't forget the laws of nature are just a part of the Law of world (Voice of the World) that governs causality, fate, timelines, logic.

Disentegration

I have no idea where this layer nonsense is coming from, so I'll just say this.

Of course, simple resistance to one showing of an ability isn't enough to ignore all uses of that ability, as some applications may be far stronger, while others may work differently, meaning they must be resisted differently. As a result, when resistance is listed on a page, it's important to describe the specifics.
Specific resistances do not necessarily translate to broad ones, though resisting a versatile power with many applications (such as Mind Manipulation) may provide a similarly expansive defense. Even then, when the same ability is performed differently, resistance may prove futile. For example, a character may resist mind manipulation that targets the brain directly, but would be in trouble against a power that targets some incorporeal idea of the mind itself.

Resisting soul absorption does not mean that you will resist soul destruction by default, just as resisting soul destruction does not mean resisting soul absorption by default. Just because you have resisted a skill does not mean that you can also resist different applications of that skill. That's why on our skill pages, we list the possible uses and different types of abilities and explain the abilities in the profiles.

Soul Hax Layers

Baseline Resistance : Skills are inscribed within one's Soul and resist any outside interference interference to seize, separate or erase[nullify] them.
This part is about the protection of skills by the soul, so this is already a unconventioanal resistance of the accepted skills in the profiles to any interference, it has nothing to do with resistance to soul manipulation.

• Soul Manipulation (Can take the soul[20] of anyone who begs for their life. Rimuru seized and absorbed the souls of 20 thousand soldiers[20] for those he killed.)

Also, Rimuru's Merciless (soul hax) only works on characters begging for their own life, this showing that Merciless can't bypass baseline resistance. (Rimuru's soul absorption is already 1 layer)

So, I only see here are the soul being protected by unique abilities and withstanding interworld summoning time (baseline resistance), Mariabell's Unique Skill to bypass resistance (+1 layer), Ultimate Skill user resistance (1 layer resistance).

Soul and Spiritual Lifeforms

Spoiler

Skills are accepted as Conceptual Manipulation Type 1, prior to this, they were Type 2, therefore, along that line of thought, there is an upgrade needed for Souls as well :

• Abstract Existence (Type 1; Information Type 2, Concept Type 1; Energy; those who can exist as souls can exist in these states, mainly because the soul in slime are sources of all these things, Souls are the source of Skills, and a Soul as a whole, including the Astral Body(Spirit) and Spiritual Body(Mind) are made of Information[10])

First, the Skill was accepted to have type 1 conceptual manipulation based on its power to manipulate World Laws, the skills themselves were never type 1 concepts so even if the soul is the source of the skills (soul is the source of skills refers to "skills are engraved in the soul" , so even if skills are a type 1 concept, the soul will not be a type 1 concept) Since skills are not concepts in the first place, the soul cannot be a type 1 concept.

• Resurrection (High-Godly Overtime; A Spiritual Lifeform can resurrect from Soul destruction, Souls are the source of Skills, and a Soul as a whole, including the Astral Body(Spirit) and Spiritual Body(Mind) are made of Information[1])

Unless they resurrect from the core destruction, there will be no High Godly Resurrection. There is still information in the core, and complete information destruction will not occur unless core destruction occurs. So this is still Mid-Godly Resurrection.

TL;DR:
•Immeasurable speed of combat and reaction of the Digital Lifeforms.
•Extraordinary Genius for Yuuki.
•Physic Manipulation for Elemental Magic.
•The soul being protected by unique abilities and withstanding interworld summoning time (Baseline Resistance), Mariabell's Unique Skill to bypass baseline resistance (+1 Layer), Ultimate Skill user resistance (+1 Layer resistance).

I agree with these, and if any other else is accepted without discussing, questioning, or further evidence, I will make a downgrade thread at the earliest opportunity.

Note: I don't think I'm by any means an expert on verse or wiki standards. But yes, there is a huge attempt at wank here, everyone should accept it.

 

[CodeCCLL]

This should be in the Ultimate Slime key, and Rimuru specifically needs to use 'Emergency Response Mode' in order to perceive its movement, so you need to specify that.

Probably, something like this.

By the way, yes, that's a good point.

 

[Mizuki67]

Yes, I know that only a few people (maybe no one will read it completely) who really care about the verse will read this, but no matter what, I cannot allow this thread to end with the comments of people who do not have enough knowledge about the verse itself or the wiki standards. So let's talk a little bit about the proposals before the staff/s comment further here.

Speed

Spoiler

The immeasurable speed of combat and reaction of the Digital Lifeforms now looks good to me because when the full context of the scans is examined, we see that explanations of the nature of the information particles are used entirely to explain the actions of Digital Lifeforms like Guy and Chloe as they fight each other.

According to the quote, when the Digital Lifeforms Chloe and Guy are fighting each other, they are both aiming/attacking at a point where their swords have already hit each other. This suggests that Chloe's sword is attacking Guy's future at a point where Chloe has already hit Guy, and that Guy is doing the same against Chloe, but both are responding to each other's attacks on their futures due to their immeasurable speed and this is clearly support Digital Lifeforms immeasurable combat and reaction speed.

Intelligence

Spoiler

I don't know why you assume all magic users are in the same case as Yuuki in this regard.

It is obvious that Yuuki is not in the same case as other magic users. Yuuki somehow couldn't do magic because he didn't have the right characteristics, but his desire for magic led his to research into it, the world language, the law of world.

Moreover, this feat of Yuuki is only at the level of Extraordinary Genius (like Diablo) because there is no way to even claim that understanding the Laws of the World and deciphering them one by one means processing all the information held by the Voice of the World, which covers the entire infinite multiverse. There is no evidence that even with an Ultimate Skill you can process infinite information.


As a result, we have no reason to put any magic user on the same level as Yuuki.

• Rimuru's DL Key : Supergenius (Raphael is capable of deciphering and unlocking Unlimited imprisonment in a single day, Unlimited Imprisonment is made of a complex number of Spatial Dimensions, which would have taken Great Sage and Veldora combined more than a hundred years, even though Great Sage's Intellect Level is Extraordinary Genius at the very least, possibly Supergenius via being able to understand and analyze all non-concealed Phenomenon including the Laws of the World, an Ultimate Skill has a far higher analyzing capacity than a mere Unique Skill)

It has already been clarified here that Unlimited Imprisonment is an metaphysical area rather than a real one.

Infinite Speed Rimuru (LET ME COOK!!🔥🔥)

But a weakness is given for the ability – telepathy (which somehow negates the idea of "physical infinite range") Infinite Range Telepathy fr 💯

vsbattles.com

Therefore, the intelligence rating based on the analysis of Unlimited Imprisonment is only sufficient for Extraordinary Genius.

Acausality Type 5 

Spoiler

First, let's see what we actually have.



A God who can guide the world as want with own will, which is independent of the laws that govern cause-effect relationships and that precedes the creation of said laws.

Now let's look at the part of the requirements that concerns us, is there enough an evidence that God cannot be changed by any affect based on the system of causality (not an idealistic change as in the argument in the OP), is not affected by any outside changes or is described uninteractible? No, although God can direct causality at his own will, bind lower beings to the laws governing causality, and although himself is outside of creation (contains all these laws), essentially the relationship between God himself and causality has never been explained to a level that meets our requirements.

Transduality Type 2

Spoiler

I've talked enough about this already so I'll keep it basic, not every equivalent opposition is a duality at all, dualities are conceptual in nature and govern existing in reality so the only duality that I think meets the standards of duality is the duality of the Great Spirit of Light and Darkness and by current wiki standards God cannot qualify for Transduality without having a qualitative superiority over dualities. So I don't support anything beyond Nonduality Type 1 for God.

Magic

Spoiler

• Physics Manipulation (Elemental Magic alters the Laws of Physics[1])

This is good.

• Limited Causality Manipulation (The Laws of the World involve the Law of Causality, by which there's a Cause and effect behind everything; Yet Magic can bypass that process itself as it directly alters the Laws of Physics instead[2][3])

Physics manipulation itself can already bypass natural processes and change the results caused by the laws of physics, but this is still just physics manipulation.

Also, just because magic interferes with the laws of the world does not mean that magic can interfere with everything governed by the laws of the world; skills, unique skills, and ultimate skills all, manipulate the related parts of the laws of the world. For example, although law of worlds govern fate, we have certain characters such as Shion, Masayuki, and Veldanava who have Fate Manipulation skills.

• Acausality (Type 4; Elemental Magic works on Laws completely different than the natural Laws of the World including the Laws of Physics as well as the Law of Causality as it completely skips the process involved in Natural Phenomenon; In other words, something governed by the Natural Laws such as the power of Spirits , cannot effect Magic at all, a Flame started by Elemental Magic cannot be extinguished by normal water, nor does it go through the same process of Combustion as set by Chemical and Physical Laws[4][5]) -Strictly referring to Magic only as an ability, not a character
• Acausality Negation (Type 4; Anti-Magic Area prevents the usage of any other Magic[6], thus preventing Impact on the Laws of the World)
• Greater Acausality Negation (Type 4; Holy Field prevents purifies Magicules in the area and prevents the usage of Magic, which works on Laws different than the Natural Laws of the World and alters the very Laws of Physics, thus completely nullifying any possible attempt to impact the Laws of the Nature; Anti-Magic could be resisted by Multi-Layered Barrier, yet Holy Field bypasses that and effects beings regardless[7][8][9])

Elemental Magic you beginning claimed to have Acausality Type 4 has no relation to Acausality Type 4. The principle of Elemental Magic, which works differently from the laws of nature in the context, is due to Elemental Magic's law manipulation and physics manipulation, which ignores, and operates on the physical laws, physical causality, and is not affected by laws that already exist in the universe.

Also, regarding Acausality Type 4, it is not just being independent of physical cause and effect (we call these physical factors), it is being independent of all kinds of cause and effect relationships, unless you are independent from temporal cause-effect relationships, you will still be affected by the conventional fate manipulation, precognition and causality manipulation, which Acausality Type 4 is immune to by default.

Finally don't forget the laws of nature are just a part of the Law of world (Voice of the World) that governs causality, fate, timelines, logic.

Disentegration
I have no idea where this layer nonsense is coming from, so I'll just say this.

Resisting soul absorption does not mean that you will resist soul destruction by default, just as resisting soul destruction does not mean resisting soul absorption by default. Just because you have resisted a skill does not mean that you can also resist different applications of that skill. That's why on our skill pages, we list the possible uses and different types of abilities and explain the abilities in the profiles.
Soul Hax Layers
Baseline Resistance : Skills are inscribed within one's Soul and resist any outside interference interference to seize, separate or erase[nullify] them.
This part is about the protection of skills by the soul, so this is already a unconventioanal resistance of the accepted skills in the profiles to any interference, it has nothing to do with resistance to soul manipulation.

• Soul Manipulation (Can take the soul[20] of anyone who begs for their life. Rimuru seized and absorbed the souls of 20 thousand soldiers[20] for those he killed.)

Also, Rimuru's Merciless (soul hax) only works on characters begging for their own life, this showing that Merciless can't bypass baseline resistance. (Rimuru's soul absorption is already 1 layer)

So, I only see here are the soul being protected by unique abilities and withstanding interworld summoning time (baseline resistance), Mariabell's Unique Skill to bypass resistance (+1 layer), Ultimate Skill user resistance (1 layer resistance).

Soul and Spiritual Lifeforms

Spoiler

First, the Skill was accepted to have type 1 conceptual manipulation based on its power to manipulate World Laws, the skills themselves were never type 1 concepts so even if the soul is the source of the skills (soul is the source of skills refers to "skills are engraved in the soul" , so even if skills are a type 1 concept, the soul will not be a type 1 concept) Since skills are not concepts in the first place, the soul cannot be a type 1 concept.

• Resurrection (High-Godly Overtime; A Spiritual Lifeform can resurrect from Soul destruction, Souls are the source of Skills, and a Soul as a whole, including the Astral Body(Spirit) and Spiritual Body(Mind) are made of Information[1])

Unless they resurrect from the core destruction, there will be no High Godly Resurrection. There is still information in the core, and complete information destruction will not occur unless core destruction occurs. So this is still Mid-Godly Resurrection. (core itself also contains information)

TL;DR:
•Immeasurable speed of combat and reaction of the Digital Lifeforms.
•Extraordinary Genius for Yuuki.
•Physic Manipulation for Elemental Magic.
•The soul being protected by unique abilities and withstanding interworld summoning time (Baseline Resistance), Mariabell's Unique Skill to bypass baseline resistance (+1 Layer), Ultimate Skill user resistance (+1 Layer resistance).

I agree with these, and if any other else is accepted without discussing, questioning, or further evidence, I will make a downgrade thread at the earliest opportunity.

Note: I don't think I'm by any means an expert on verse or wiki standards. But yes, there is a huge attempt at wank here, everyone should accept it.

Thank you so much for your evaluation

 

[Mizuki67]

to add to speed

They crossed swords several times. It felt like I was watching a stop motion animation; the continuity to the flow of their sword exchanges was nonexistent

Guy’s swift swordsmanship was worthy of being called godlike. My perceptual speed, which stretched things out a million times more than normal, told me that I was already too late even if I moved immediately

According to this description, it said "each strike didn't exist at all"
In other words it happened before it happened and
"Even if i moved instantly, I'll already be too late"
Rapheal then said something about observing situations that weren't on the same time axis which concluded that all their attacks had happened before they knew or felt what was going on
The next example should be this

Chloe kissed me out of the blue. I didn’t know what I was saying, but Chloe’s beauty had suddenly approached me, and then I suddenly felt a soft touch on my lips. There was nothing I could do to stop it. There was no need to verify whether it could have been avoided or not.

Chloe kissed rimuru, before she made a move
Outside time stop btw, and like the previous threads mentioned about veldora and dagruel battle, i guess i agree with speed too
I'll give my intel on super genius later

 

[Digital_Franz]

Yes, I know that only a few people (maybe no one will read it completely) who really care about the verse will read this, but no matter what, I cannot allow this thread to end with the comments of people who do not have enough knowledge about the verse itself or the wiki standards. So let's talk a little bit about the proposals before the staff/s comment further here.

Speed

Spoiler

The immeasurable speed of combat and reaction of the Digital Lifeforms now looks good to me because when the full context of the scans is examined, we see that explanations of the nature of the information particles are used entirely to explain the actions of Digital Lifeforms like Guy and Chloe as they fight each other.

According to the quote, when the Digital Lifeforms Chloe and Guy are fighting each other, they are both aiming/attacking at a point where their swords have already hit each other. This suggests that Chloe's sword is attacking Guy's future at a point where Chloe has already hit Guy, and that Guy is doing the same against Chloe, but both are responding to each other's attacks on their futures due to their immeasurable speed and this is clearly support evidence for Digital Lifeforms immeasurable combat and reaction speed.

Intelligence

Spoiler

I don't know why you assume all magic users are in the same case as Yuuki in this regard.

It is obvious that Yuuki is not in the same case as other magic users. Yuuki somehow couldn't do magic because he didn't have the right characteristics, but his desire for magic led his to research into it, the world language, the law of world.

Moreover, this feat of Yuuki is only at the level of Extraordinary Genius (like Diablo) because there is no way to even claim that understanding the Laws of the World and deciphering them one by one means processing all the information held by the Voice of the World, which covers the entire infinite multiverse. There is no evidence that even with an Ultimate Skill you can process infinite information.


As a result, we have no reason to put any magic user on the same level as Yuuki.

• Rimuru's DL Key : Supergenius (Raphael is capable of deciphering and unlocking Unlimited imprisonment in a single day, Unlimited Imprisonment is made of a complex number of Spatial Dimensions, which would have taken Great Sage and Veldora combined more than a hundred years, even though Great Sage's Intellect Level is Extraordinary Genius at the very least, possibly Supergenius via being able to understand and analyze all non-concealed Phenomenon including the Laws of the World, an Ultimate Skill has a far higher analyzing capacity than a mere Unique Skill)

It has already been clarified here that Unlimited Imprisonment is an metaphysical area rather than a real one.

Infinite Speed Rimuru (LET ME COOK!!🔥🔥)

But a weakness is given for the ability – telepathy (which somehow negates the idea of "physical infinite range") Infinite Range Telepathy fr 💯

vsbattles.com

Therefore, the intelligence rating based on the analysis of Unlimited Imprisonment is only sufficient for Extraordinary Genius.

Acausality Type 5 

Spoiler

First, let's see what we actually have.



A God who can guide the world as want with own will, which is independent of the laws that govern cause-effect relationships and that precedes the creation of said laws.

Now let's look at the part of the requirements that concerns us, is there enough an evidence that God cannot be changed by any affect based on the system of causality (not an idealistic change as in the argument in the OP), is not affected by any outside changes or is described uninteractible? No, although God can direct causality at his own will, bind lower beings to the laws governing causality, and although himself is outside of creation (contains all these laws), essentially the relationship between God himself and causality has never been explained to a level that meets our requirements.

Transduality Type 2

Spoiler

I've talked enough about this already so I'll keep it basic, not every equivalent opposition is a duality at all, dualities are conceptual in nature and govern existing in reality so the only duality that I think meets the standards of duality is the duality of the Great Spirit of Light and Darkness and by current wiki standards God cannot qualify for Transduality without having a qualitative superiority over dualities. So I don't support anything beyond Nonduality Type 1 for God.

Magic

Spoiler

• Physics Manipulation (Elemental Magic alters the Laws of Physics[1])

This is good.

• Limited Causality Manipulation (The Laws of the World involve the Law of Causality, by which there's a Cause and effect behind everything; Yet Magic can bypass that process itself as it directly alters the Laws of Physics instead[2][3])

Physics manipulation itself can already bypass natural processes and change the results caused by the laws of physics, but this is still just physics manipulation.

Also, just because magic interferes with the laws of the world does not mean that magic can interfere with everything governed by the laws of the world; skills, unique skills, and ultimate skills all, manipulate the related parts of the laws of the world. For example, although law of worlds govern fate, we have certain characters such as Shion, Masayuki, and Veldanava who have Fate Manipulation skills.

• Acausality (Type 4; Elemental Magic works on Laws completely different than the natural Laws of the World including the Laws of Physics as well as the Law of Causality as it completely skips the process involved in Natural Phenomenon; In other words, something governed by the Natural Laws such as the power of Spirits , cannot effect Magic at all, a Flame started by Elemental Magic cannot be extinguished by normal water, nor does it go through the same process of Combustion as set by Chemical and Physical Laws[4][5]) -Strictly referring to Magic only as an ability, not a character
• Acausality Negation (Type 4; Anti-Magic Area prevents the usage of any other Magic[6], thus preventing Impact on the Laws of the World)
• Greater Acausality Negation (Type 4; Holy Field prevents purifies Magicules in the area and prevents the usage of Magic, which works on Laws different than the Natural Laws of the World and alters the very Laws of Physics, thus completely nullifying any possible attempt to impact the Laws of the Nature; Anti-Magic could be resisted by Multi-Layered Barrier, yet Holy Field bypasses that and effects beings regardless[7][8][9])

Elemental Magic you beginning claimed to have Acausality Type 4 has no relation to Acausality Type 4. The principle of Elemental Magic, which works differently from the laws of nature in the context, is due to Elemental Magic's law manipulation and physics manipulation, which ignores, and operates on the physical laws, physical causality, and is not affected by laws that already exist in the universe.

Also, regarding Acausality Type 4, it is not just being independent of physical cause and effect (we call these physical factors), it is being independent of all kinds of cause and effect relationships, unless you are independent from temporal cause-effect relationships, you will still be affected by the conventional fate manipulation, precognition and causality manipulation, which Acausality Type 4 is immune to by default.

Finally don't forget the laws of nature are just a part of the Law of world (Voice of the World) that governs causality, fate, timelines, logic.

Disentegration
I have no idea where this layer nonsense is coming from, so I'll just say this.

Resisting soul absorption does not mean that you will resist soul destruction by default, just as resisting soul destruction does not mean resisting soul absorption by default. Just because you have resisted a skill does not mean that you can also resist different applications of that skill. That's why on our skill pages, we list the possible uses and different types of abilities and explain the abilities in the profiles.
Soul Hax Layers
Baseline Resistance : Skills are inscribed within one's Soul and resist any outside interference interference to seize, separate or erase[nullify] them.
This part is about the protection of skills by the soul, so this is already a unconventioanal resistance of the accepted skills in the profiles to any interference, it has nothing to do with resistance to soul manipulation.

• Soul Manipulation (Can take the soul[20] of anyone who begs for their life. Rimuru seized and absorbed the souls of 20 thousand soldiers[20] for those he killed.)

Also, Rimuru's Merciless (soul hax) only works on characters begging for their own life, this showing that Merciless can't bypass baseline resistance. (Rimuru's soul absorption is already 1 layer)

So, I only see here are the soul being protected by unique abilities and withstanding interworld summoning time (baseline resistance), Mariabell's Unique Skill to bypass resistance (+1 layer), Ultimate Skill user resistance (1 layer resistance).

Soul and Spiritual Lifeforms

Spoiler

First, the Skill was accepted to have type 1 conceptual manipulation based on its power to manipulate World Laws, the skills themselves were never type 1 concepts so even if the soul is the source of the skills (soul is the source of skills refers to "skills are engraved in the soul" , so even if skills are a type 1 concept, the soul will not be a type 1 concept) Since skills are not concepts in the first place, the soul cannot be a type 1 concept.

• Resurrection (High-Godly Overtime; A Spiritual Lifeform can resurrect from Soul destruction, Souls are the source of Skills, and a Soul as a whole, including the Astral Body(Spirit) and Spiritual Body(Mind) are made of Information[1])

Unless they resurrect from the core destruction, there will be no High Godly Resurrection. There is still information in the core, and complete information destruction will not occur unless core destruction occurs. So this is still Mid-Godly Resurrection. (core itself also contains information)

TL;DR:
•Immeasurable speed of combat and reaction of the Digital Lifeforms.
•Extraordinary Genius for Yuuki.
•Physic Manipulation for Elemental Magic.
•The soul being protected by unique abilities and withstanding interworld summoning time (Baseline Resistance), Mariabell's Unique Skill to bypass baseline resistance (+1 Layer), Ultimate Skill user resistance (+1 Layer resistance).

I agree with these, and if any other else is accepted without discussing, questioning, or further evidence, I will make a downgrade thread at the earliest opportunity.

Note: I don't think I'm by any means an expert on verse or wiki standards. But yes, there is a huge attempt at wank here, everyone should accept it.

Thanks for the help and detailed support

 

[Tatsumi504]

• Acausality (Type 4; Elemental Magic works on Laws completely different than the natural Laws of the World including the Laws of Physics as well as the Law of Causality as it completely skips the process involved in Natural Phenomenon; In other words, something governed by the Natural Laws such as the power of Spirits , cannot effect Magic at all, a Flame started by Elemental Magic cannot be extinguished by normal water, nor does it go through the same process of Combustion as set by Chemical and Physical Laws[4][5]) -Strictly referring to Magic only as an ability, not a character

Failing to see how this is Acausality. This isn't elemental magic working based on laws, principles of a different world. Sure it isn't affected by laws governing natural phenomena however, it still operates under the laws of that world which we can coin as "the laws of magic". This is clearly shown by the examples given. Yeah fire created using magic doesn't require oxygen to keep burning but it isn't as a result of being outside normal causality rather, it's fuel source is magicules instead of oxygen. Magic as a power in fiction is already something which doesn't adhere to natural phenomena in the first place.

Causality being a part of the worlds laws also doesn't matter in proving this as I have noted, multiple sets of laws can exist in a single reality such as laws of natural phenomena and laws of magic. The only way causality being part of laws also comes into play is if it's noted to affect it in particular or all laws simultaneously.

• Acausality Negation (Type 4; Anti-Magic Area prevents the usage of any other Magic[6], thus preventing Impact on the Laws of the World)
• Greater Acausality Negation (Type 4; Holy Field prevents purifies Magicules in the area and prevents the usage of Magic, which works on Laws different than the Natural Laws of the World and alters the very Laws of Physics, thus completely nullifying any possible attempt to impact the Laws of the Nature; Anti-Magic could be resisted by Multi-Layered Barrier, yet Holy Field bypasses that and effects beings regardless[7][8][9])

Even assuming the Acausality of elemental magic is legit, I fail to see any negation happening here, it's just power null, in the first place anti-magic by virtue of being magic will also be Acausal so there's no negation but simple interaction by virtue of having the same nature.

Soul Destruction (2 Layers), Conceptual Destruction (5 Layer), Information Destruction (Type 2)(1 Layer)

Where are the layers for destruction coming from?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Honestly, I think it is better if we just close this. It had far to many large upgrades, while most of them didn't have a proper backing and since they are going into far to many different directions, it is hard for the OP to debate the counter arguments. So I propose we can close this for now, and in the future make CRT's for the points individialy with better arguments and a lot more focus for each individual aspect.

What do you guys think?

 

[Mizuki67]

op isn't even replying
I'll contact DDM to close this lol

 

[CodeCCLL]

Failing to see how this is Acausality. This isn't elemental magic working based on laws, principles of a different world. Sure it isn't affected by laws governing natural phenomena however, it still operates under the laws of that world which we can coin as "the laws of magic". This is clearly shown by the examples given. Yeah fire created using magic doesn't require oxygen to keep burning but it isn't as a result of being outside normal causality rather, it's fuel source is magicules instead of oxygen. Magic as a power in fiction is already something which doesn't adhere to natural phenomena in the first place.

One more point.

 

[Rizkykarbit]

Who is the others? In this case I agree with him

You can see above.

And still same, i disagree with Immeasurable.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Was extremely sick, now a bit better so replying back, remind me if I miss anything

Information Particle has indeed become Immeasurable but it won't always be like that because the narrative itself says it like that.

The narrative mentions that he Information particle can transmit Information to all points in time, the word "Can" only means that he is capable and does not always happen.

If you omit the word "can" it means that the Information Particle always travels to any point in time when transmitting Information. Again the way to get Reaction and Combat speed is not like that, even if you don't agree with me the others will not agree with you and it indicates that what you give is wrong.

You do know that not every immeasurable speed character is always going at immeasurable speed right?
Otherwise if Character A is immeasurable speed, and character B is unknown, and they go on for a causal walk in the park, than by your logic, we'll have to scale character B to immeasurable speed too
If you really want to play the word game, than here : [source : speed page]

Infinite Speed (Able to travel any finite distance in zero time, or move an infinite distance within a finite amount of time. Teleportation does not count. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below)

Immeasurable (Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below)

Immeasurable speed characters are far beyond even those Infinite speed characters listed above. They perceive infinite speed characters as completely frozen, and they can travel forward and backward in time at will. They have the speed necessary to hop from the beginning of time, to the end of time, and anywhere in between as casually as a human being can roll their eyes left or right. This also means their reaction time is faster than instantaneous. They can dodge an attack that already has been struck, and they can strike someone even before they launched an attack. And they can do all of this via sheer speed.

So no, we don't have anything requiring them to ALWAYS move at such speed.
Similarly, we already know the reason why information particle can move in Suspended World in the first place is due to their sheer speed, thus using the analogy "they may not always be moving at that speed in the suspended world" would be false, because if they were indeed moving slower, they wouldn't even move in the Suspended World

Yeah still not enough, like i say it getting strict now day
I literally search that for 1 hours, and i dont found any thread that accepted that blog
No it is not general duality, you even brought Yin and Yang, but there are no in your scan that stated about Yin and Yang

Seems I found some relevant thing to that, at least, in that these "connections", such as Sin-Angelic skills, are compared to Ying and Yang relations.

Yes, I know that only a few people (maybe no one will read it completely) who really care about the verse will read this, but no matter what, I cannot allow this thread to end with the comments of people who do not have enough knowledge about the verse itself or the wiki standards. So let's talk a little bit about the proposals before the staff/s comment further here.

Thank you for the detailed evaluation

The immeasurable speed of combat and reaction of the Digital Lifeforms now looks good to me because when the full context of the scans is examined, we see that explanations of the nature of the information particles are used entirely to explain the actions of Digital Lifeforms like Guy and Chloe as they fight each other.
According to the quote, when the Digital Lifeforms Chloe and Guy are fighting each other, they are both aiming/attacking at a point where their swords have already hit each other. This suggests that Chloe's sword is attacking Guy's future at a point where Chloe has already hit Guy, and that Guy is doing the same against Chloe, but both are responding to each other's attacks on their futures due to their immeasurable speed and this is clearly support evidence for Digital Lifeforms immeasurable combat and reaction speed.

I see, I didn't read the full volume so some statements got skipped. I didn't realize there was such a statement, but thanks for pointing it out.

As a result, we have no reason to put any magic user on the same level as Yuuki.

alright

It has already been clarified here that Unlimited Imprisonment is an metaphysical area rather than a real one.

I see, though, would it be helpful with the statement that Unlimited imprisonment traps the target in an infinite number of imaginary spaces?
since the target is sealed within an infinite amount of such spaces, it would normally take infinite time if the processing power of the user is finite, in order to unlock/decipher unlimited imprisonment, yet if they can do it in finite time, it would mean they have an infinite processing power to be able to handle infinite information in a finite time.

No, although God can direct causality at his own will, bind lower beings to the laws governing causality, and although himself is outside of creation (contains all these laws), essentially the relationship between God himself and causality has never been explained to a level that meets our requirements.

Well it has implied that he was changeless by the fact that "He threw away his omnipotence and omniscience to experience genuine change", wouldn't that mean his self when he was omnipotent, would be changeless? [and we already differentiate between 'god' and 'veldanava']

I've talked enough about this already so I'll keep it basic, not every equivalent opposition is a duality at all, dualities are conceptual in nature and govern existing in reality so the only duality that I think meets the standards of duality is the duality of the Great Spirit of Light and Darkness and by current wiki standards God cannot qualify for Transduality without having a qualitative superiority over dualities. So I don't support anything beyond Nonduality Type 1 for God.

No, they are not always conceptual, the definition page itself clarifies it :

Nonduality and Transduality are states of being wherein an entity exists independently of, or qualitatively beyond, various dual systems, ranging from specific, limited sets of dual distinctions to duality itself on a conceptual level

Conceptual Dualities are different from limited sets of dualities[that do not have to be conceptual].

Also, just because magic interferes with the laws of the world does not mean that magic can interfere with everything governed by the laws of the world; skills, unique skills, and ultimate skills all, manipulate the related parts of the laws of the world. For example, although law of worlds govern fate, we have certain characters such as Shion, Masayuki, and Veldanava who have Fate Manipulation skills.

Elemental Magic you beginning claimed to have Acausality Type 4 has no relation to Acausality Type 4. The principle of Elemental Magic, which works differently from the laws of nature in the context, is due to Elemental Magic's law manipulation and physics manipulation, which ignores, and operates on the physical laws, physical causality, and is not affected by laws that already exist in the universe.

Also, regarding Acausality Type 4, it is not just being independent of physical cause and effect (we call these physical factors), it is being independent of all kinds of cause and effect relationships, unless you are independent from temporal cause-effect relationships, you will still be affected by the conventional fate manipulation, precognition and causality manipulation,

being independent of all kinds of cause and effect relations would be Type 5, not type 4. Type 4 is just working on an irregular causal system
Also, Elemental Magic isn't corelated to the Laws of Physics, because you can't apply Physical Phenomenon into Magic and expect it to work, due to which elemental magic cannot be used in Holy Field whereas Spirit Magic, which follows the laws of physics and physical phenomenon, can.

which Acausality Type 4 is immune to by default.

*Resistanthttps://imgur.com/Xy89Ut9

I have no idea where this layer nonsense is coming from, so I'll just say this.

I gave a few more examples on the layered hax thread

Baseline Resistance : Skills are inscribed within one's Soul and resist any outside interference interference to seize, separate or erase[nullify] them.
This part is about the protection of skills by the soul, so this is already a unconventioanal resistance of the accepted skills in the profiles to any interference, it has nothing to do with resistance to soul manipulation.

• Soul Manipulation (Can take the soul[20] of anyone who begs for their life. Rimuru seized and absorbed the souls of 20 thousand soldiers[20] for those he killed.)

Also, Rimuru's Merciless (soul hax) only works on characters begging for their own life, this showing that Merciless can't bypass baseline resistance. (Rimuru's soul absorption is already 1 layer)

So, I only see here are the soul being protected by unique abilities and withstanding interworld summoning time (baseline resistance), Mariabell's Unique Skill to bypass resistance (+1 layer), Ultimate Skill user resistance (1 layer resistance).

Pretty sure these are the same layers as in the original OP

• Baseline Resistance : Skills are inscribed within one's Soul and resist any outside interference interference to seize, separate or erase[nullify] them, Unique skills are the shape of the mind itself and require a strong soul to possess them. Their soul is strong enough to withstand the stress of the summoning process that drags the person from another world in a different universe across the realms. Furthermore, Unique skills are often etched onto the soul, and it could protect it from influence[40]
• 1 Layer : Maria's and Rimuru's Soul manipulation, which should work on Unique skill users due to them being unique skill users themselves
• 1 Layer resistance : Ultimate skill users resist unique skills
• 2 Layers : Disintegration worked on Rimuru, an Ultimate Skill user

The main thing here is that Disintegration erases the Soul and can work on Ultimate skill users, which have 1 layer resistance

Where are the layers for destruction coming from?

Soul destruction :

• Baseline Resistance : Skills are inscribed within one's Soul and resist any outside interference interference to seize, separate or erase[nullify] them, Unique skills are the shape of the mind itself and require a strong soul to possess them. Their soul is strong enough to withstand the stress of the summoning process that drags the person from another world in a different universe across the realms. Furthermore, Unique skills are often etched onto the soul, and it could protect it from influence[40]
• 1 Layer : Maria's and Rimuru's Soul manipulation, which should work on Unique skill users due to them being unique skill users themselves
• 1 Layer resistance : Ultimate skill users resist unique skills
• 2 Layers : Disintegration worked on Rimuru, an Ultimate Skill user

Conceptual manipulation[destruction] :
Magic in general is Conceptual manipulation[accepted], and Ultimate skill users have 4 layers of resistance to it[explained in magic and skills page], yet Disintegration can still effect Ultimate skill users

Information Destruction :
Baseline resistance : above A-rank adventures can resist a sealed Veldora's Aura, which can cause conceptual death to Ifrit. "Conceptual Death" was previously accepted as Core destruction as well, where core defines one's information self
1 Layer : Ultimate skill users should be far higher than A-rank adventurers, yet Disintegration can still completely erase their Soul including skills, skills are made of information
scans are in the OP already

Failing to see how this is Acausality. This isn't elemental magic working based on laws, principles of a different world. Sure it isn't affected by laws governing natural phenomena however, it still operates under the laws of that world which we can coin as "the laws of magic". This is clearly shown by the examples given. Yeah fire created using magic doesn't require oxygen to keep burning but it isn't as a result of being outside normal causality rather, it's fuel source is magicules instead of oxygen. Magic as a power in fiction is already something which doesn't adhere to natural phenomena in the first place.

Causality being a part of the worlds laws also doesn't matter in proving this as I have noted, multiple sets of laws can exist in a single reality such as laws of natural phenomena and laws of magic. The only way causality being part of laws also comes into play is if it's noted to affect it in particular or all laws simultaneously.
Even assuming the Acausality of elemental magic is legit, I fail to see any negation happening here, it's just power null, in the first place anti-magic by virtue of being magic will also be Acausal so there's no negation but simple interaction by virtue of having the same nature.

One more point.

I see, in that case, I'll remove the Acausality part

op isn't even replying

I believe I already told you guys the reason on discord -_-

In any case,
Since 3 people from here and some people from discord asked me to remove the God part and let it be for another thread, I'll remove the parts related to it. That should be fine, right?

Also, don't expect me to reply asap because I still haven't fully recovered, and also busy with other things.

 

[Tatsumi504]

What does maria and rimuru's soul manipulation do?

Conceptual manipulation[destruction] :
Magic in general is Conceptual manipulation[accepted], and Ultimate skill users have 4 layers of resistance to it[explained in magic and skills page], yet Disintegration can still effect Ultimate skill users

Iirc, magic has CM by affecting laws which are also concepts. Leaving the specific interaction to garner resistance aside, this is conceptual manipulation not destruction. We make distinctions for these things like how resisting someone attempting to control your mind is not the same as resisting your mind being destroyed.

Information Destruction :
Baseline resistance : above A-rank adventures can resist a sealed Veldora's Aura, which can cause conceptual death to Ifrit. "Conceptual Death" was previously accepted as Core destruction as well, where core defines one's information self

This counts

1 Layer : Ultimate skill users should be far higher than A-rank adventurers, yet Disintegration can still completely erase their Soul including skills, skills are made of information
scans are in the OP already

Unfortunately this one is just confidence scaling. I know that ultimate skills resist/ can't be affected by unique skill but you need to show it also applies to destruction not just manipulation and disintegration isn't a skill either

 

[Catpija]

This should be in the Ultimate Slime key, and Rimuru specifically needs to use 'Emergency Response Mode' in order to perceive its movement, so you need to specify that.

Probably, something like this.

You missed this btw..

You do know that not every immeasurable speed character is always going at immeasurable speed right?

Except in this case, they do! Those who can move at immeasureable speed is a Digital Lifeform, composed of information that always move at constant speed.

 

[Mizuki67]

This counts

Unfortunately, it doesn't, the "death" ifrit was supposed to experience wasnt caused by veldora aura, besides the aura of any strong person also kills people its not unique to veldora alone, if veldora truly releases his aura, not even demon lord rimuru will survive

 

[Wikisource]

Everything is fine

 

[CodeCCLL]

No, they are not always conceptual

I always forget that states of being can be described mathematically by (1 and 0) or by sets, but the case here still has nothing to do with those.

being independent of all kinds of cause and effect relations would be Type 5, not type 4. Type 4 is just working on an irregular causal system

I did not say completely independent of cause and effect, only independent of the laws governing cause and effect. Being independent from the laws governing cause and effect is just Acausality Type 4 right now. The other requirements I quoted for Acausality Type 5 are also needed.

What does maria and rimuru's soul manipulation do?

Spoiler: Mariabell's Power

These all fueled Mariabell's power: her Unique Skill 'Greedy One (Greed)'. The Unique Skill 'Greedy One' originated from the seven original sins of man. It belonged to the Skill type known as the 'Deadly Sins'. These were a special presence even among Unique Skills, as they represented the desire of their users. The users' emotions and wishes manifested in the form of their Skills. In fact- Mariabell was born to be the strongest among the Rosso. The power to dominate human desire-that was the ability of the 'Greedy One'. She could see through people's desires. The greater their desires were, the easier they could be manipulated. Everyone had his desire, and once she stimulated it, he would dance to Mariabell's score. Starting from people around her, she gradually increased the number of pawns she owned.

Spoiler: Feat

Unique Skills are often etched onto one's soul, you are no exception; your Skill is deeply imprinted upon it." "Huh, that's the first time I've heard of that, so what?" "Hmm, during the meeting just now, many councilors were corrupted by their 'desire"." "Oh..." "Those 'desires' were forcibly implanted, some Skills can have an influence on one's soul, so I assume they must have been affected." "......" "Glenda, you were also affected." "What do you mean?" "Luckily you had your Unique Skill protecting your soul, so it wasn't corrupted completely."

Rimuru's Soul Absorption

• Absorption (All Types) (1 Layer) and Power Mimicry (With Glutton; His unique skill can absorb anything, including skills; Skills that are inscribed within one's Soul resist any outside interference to erase, size or separate them; however, Unique Skills work on other Unique Skill holders)

•Rimuru seized and absorbed the souls of 20 thousand soldiers[20] for those he killed.

(It has already been accepted that it is layered soul absorption)

 

[Tatsumi504]

Snip

Unfortunately none of that has to do with resisting soul destruction. Except the baseline resistance, there's no other layer disintegration is overcoming

 

[CodeCCLL]

Unfortunately none of that has to do with resisting soul destruction. Except the baseline resistance, there's no other layer disintegration is overcoming

This is not for me so...

Soul Destruction

 

[Tatsumi504]

This is not for me so...

I know,jist wanted to leave it there now that I've seen what the soul manipulation does

 

[Rizkykarbit]

You do know that not every immeasurable speed character is always going at immeasurable speed right?
Otherwise if Character A is immeasurable speed, and character B is unknown, and they go on for a causal walk in the park, than by your logic, we'll have to scale character B to immeasurable speed too
If you really want to play the word game, than here : [source : speed page]


So no, we don't have anything requiring them to ALWAYS move at such speed.
Similarly, we already know the reason why information particle can move in Suspended World in the first place is due to their sheer speed, thus using the analogy "they may not always be moving at that speed in the suspended world" would be false, because if they were indeed moving slower, they wouldn't even move in the Suspended World

If you don't know and someone tells, then follow what people say, don't argue with strange arguments.

That's how to get Immeasurable speed, and Code tries to explain it in his argument above.

 

[Fixxed]

Seems I found some relevant thing to that, at least, in that these "connections", such as Sin-Angelic skills, are compared to Ying and Yang relations.

But still not stated about Yin and Yang. If LN not have any statement about Yin and Yang like WN, then there are no duality in tensura, because we just accepted duality in tensura on previous WN thread cause it literally stated about Yin and Yang

 

[Mizuki67]

But still not stated about Yin and Yang. If LN not have any statement about Yin and Yang like WN, then there are no duality in tensura, because we just accepted duality in tensura on previous WN thread cause it literally stated about Yin and Yang

This kind of thinking is so flawed
Or so you must first have your verse say the dualities are dualities or are yin and yang?
Lmao, please i think you can rest now