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Transduality Should be Nonduality

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The wiki has a better grasp of the concept than the originators of the concept

Transduality is superior to non duality even tho the definition of Transduality is what also defines non duality irl

Tldr the wiki knows best
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Where was the latter part stated? All I've said in this revision is that non-duality is a lack of duality, we index immunity based on the lack of something, ergo non-duality would be immunity to dualities and extensions of them. That seems to be what's mostly agreed upon, anyways.
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I dont follow what you said
Stated by DT above and also he stated like that in previous revision
DontTalkDT said:
What nonduality does when you attack the character depends entirely on the extended system of logic that is used and depending on which inference rules you put in that system any possible outcome is imaginable.
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Also qawsedf say transduality would be just like our current page, so transduality is immunity and qualitative superior to duality, and nonduality as it lesser version will not
Qawsedf234 said:
Transduality would just be our current page with all of the strict limits. We would just have Nonduality as the default values.
Click to expand...

I dont see where the mostly people agree with nonduality is immunity to duality, even qaw and DT not say about nonduality that immunity to duality
 
Nonduality just means you're outside some binary system. But being outside of something doesn't prevent someone from forcing it upon you or from something from a Higher Dimensional perspective from including you in a greater system.

Or in other words, Nonduality of life and death just means you're outside of the natural system of life and death. If someone has death manipulation and can force it on you then the character would be immune to it.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Nonduality just means you're outside some binary system. But being outside of something doesn't prevent someone from forcing it upon you or from something from a Higher Dimensional perspective from including you in a greater system.

Or in other words, Nonduality of life and death just means you're outside of the natural system of life and death. If someone has death manipulation and can force it on you then the character would be immune to it.
Click to expand...

I'm fine with the idea of a non-dual entity being included in a greater system of the duality he lacks (in its own plane of existence) in a higher dimensional plane of existence but someone forcing the duality upon the nondual character is rationally incorrect as the said character lacks that certain duality (life-death for eg) so some guy with life & death manipulation can not radically affect the character, they should be immune to any ability related to the duality they lack
 
Quick question, being outside of non-duality or beyond non-duality what would it give? Even more so when Non-duality is a state of oneness.
 
Dereck03 said:
Quick question, being outside of non-duality or beyond non-duality what would it give? Even more so when Non-duality is a state of oneness.
Click to expand...
Being outside of nonduality would give immunity to the duality (or dualities) in question but the character would still be part of a greater system of dualities on a higher dimensional plane of existence than his.

And being beyond (as to say, qualitatively superior or transcendent) the said dualities mean that they are beyond every system and thus exist beyond the whole concept of dualities; referring to transduality
 
This is meaningless.

Every hax on wiki is tied to dimensionality.

It doesn't matter whether you have Transduality on 5D plane, 6D with no duality transcendence nukes

There's nothing like "Being beyond every system of duality" that goes beyond your dimensionality, so the distinction being made here falls apart
 
Sniper670 said:
This is meaningless.

Every hax on wiki is tied to dimensionality.

It doesn't matter whether you have Transduality on 5D plane, 6D with no duality transcendence nukes

There's nothing like "Being beyond every system of duality" that goes beyond your dimensionality, so the distinction being made here falls apart
Click to expand...
We are probably going to ignore dimensionality when dealing with transduality; making a transdual character immune to duality on every plane of existence as transduality is defined as "beyond duality itself on a conceptual level", while nonduality would be bounded by dimensionality
 
Zexer1 said:
We are probably going to ignore dimensionality when dealing with transduality; making a transdual character immune to duality on every plane of existence as transduality is defined as "beyond duality itself on a conceptual level", while nonduality would be bounded by dimensionality
Click to expand...
Im pretty sure this was talked about a while back that transdualism wouldn't directly transcend dimensions/affect a character's tier, otherwise you would get a lot of Low 1-A and 1-A ratings due to an easy pathway. ( this would obviously only apply to type 3.)
 
Marshadow29 said:
Im pretty sure this was talked about a while back that transdualism wouldn't directly transcend dimensions/affect a character's tier, otherwise you would get a lot of Low 1-A and 1-A ratings due to an easy pathway. ( this would obviously only apply to type 3.)
Click to expand...
I'm not implying that transduality should "Transcend dimensions" or "affect a character's tier" but "transduality would mean being beyond the concept of dualities thereby being non-dual to dualities on any plane of existence" and that shouldn't affect dimensionality or tier of a character ig

Also, most of the characters currently possessing the ability probably fall under the section of nonduality so there won't be "a lot" characters having TD
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. That seems manageable then, but we still need volunteer investigators who will sufficiently carefully examine all of the cases in a collaborative revision thread.
Click to expand...
I can pitch in, im quite familiar with duality due to more than a few verse's ive finished dabbling into the concept
 
Zexer1 said:
I'm not implying that transduality should "Transcend dimensions" or "affect a character's tier" but "transduality would mean being beyond the concept of dualities thereby being non-dual to dualities on any plane of existence" and that shouldn't affect dimensionality or tier of a character ig

Also, most of the characters currently possessing the ability probably fall under the section of nonduality so there won't be "a lot" characters having TD
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That makes more sense, though transduality would automatically mean qualitative superiority over those dualities.
 
So to lay down the rough idea of what's been made consensus in this thread and the changes to be implemented in the current TD page...

*Firstly, the ability/page name would be changed from transduality to nonduality *

Introduction part

A duality refers to a logical duality for the purpose of this ability. That is to say, that the duality in question can be described as "A" and "not A" where A is some object or attribute. So, for example, fire and water are not a duality. The duality of fire would be fire and not fire. The duality of existence would be existence and not existence, which could equivalently be formulated as existence and nonexistence or existence and void.

If the 0 and 1 of binary systems can be considered a duality, a nondual/transdual character’s fundamental existence might be definable as being in-between the numbers of 0 and 1, being 0 and 1 at once, being defined as being a “2”, or as not being describable through any numbers at all at the higher levels.

As it stands, Type 1 corresponds to being beyond certain kinds of dual systems, but not all duality. Type 2 refers to characters whose existence is described as either being in both states of a duality at once or in neither state. Type 3 refers to characters whose existence belongs to alternate logical states which can't be described just by saying that they exist in both or neither state of a duality, but instead in a unique third state.

This ability would be divided in two sections namely, nonduality and transduality, the first and major section being nonduality

Nonduality

Nonduality is the state of being wherein an entity exists independently of, or lack, various dual systems, ranging from very specific, limited sets of dual distinctions to being independent of duality as a whole on their respective plane of existence

But to note that, an entity who is nondual of a specific, or every duality, on their plane of existence is still included in a greater system of dualities on a higher plane of existence, thereby, they are not beyond the conception of duality itself.

"Transduality is not simply nonduality, but additionally requires something like qualitative superiority or immunity to attacks bound to the duality in question."
Click to expand...
This part gets removed

Nonduality Types

Type 1 (Specific Nonduality): Characters that exist in a nondual state regarding one specific dual system on their plane of existence and are immune to the effects caused within it
• Examples

Type 2 (General Nonduality): Characters that exist in a nondual state regarding all dual systems within the scope of their entire plane of existence and immune to the effects caused within it. Furthermore, characters with this type can be accurately described as being in either both or neither state of the dualities.
• Examples

Type 3 (Plurality): Characters that exist in a nondual state regarding all dual systems within the scope of their entire plane of existence and immune to the effects caused within it. Furthermore, these characters exist beyond the classical states of contradiction-allowing logic on some level of existence. That is to say, for any statement A about them they are in a state that can't be described as A is true, A is false, A is simultaneously true and false or A is neither true nor false. And so they must obey a many-valued logic with at least 5 truth states, and not be in any of the 4 combinations of true and false mentioned earlier.
• Examples

And then....

Transduality

Transduality is the state of being wherein an entity exists independently of, and qualitatively beyond, various dual systems, ranging from very specific, limited sets of dual distinctions to beyond duality itself on a conceptual level, thereby being independent of every dual system on any plane of existence

And then copy paste all the pre-existing types but with these minor changes :

In type 1
"qualitatively superior or immune", here "or" would become "and" as it is more logical

In type 2
"regarding all dual systems within the scope of an entire level of reality", here "within the scope of an entire level of" should get removed -> "regarding all dual systems of reality"
Then in "qualitatively superior or immune", "or" -> "and"

In type 3
Same changes as type 2


So now it's upto the staff members to give their verdict on this...
 
The draft looks good.

However, I'm completely opposed to treating transduality as immunity to all instances of duality across every possible extension of reality. We have never treated the transcendence of a concept as extending beyond what's been shown, not even in regards to the previous transduality standards, because it'd be a huge NLF otherwise. Without that, we'd get shit where a tier 9 character could conceivably resist tier 0 hax just because "transduality lol". It's better to leave transduality as it is.
 
i disagree with how Transduality is treated since the requirements of being transdual Type 2 is basically encompassing all possible reality which is not only impossible to achieve but is open to NLF if granted to a character
we literally had to revise our abilities to not be prone to NLF
so the existence of Tranduality type 2 or higher would simply be an impossible ability that no one will get or it will be an ability that grants ridiculous amounts of NLF with merely a feat on a limited scope of the verse

Edit: furthermore nonduality granting immunity would be limited as well as anyone who can impose a law system of duality upon someone nondual will be affected if we go by that definition that they are not superior/transcendent to it. There is a clear difference between how something is irrelevant to you because you are beyond it and it is irrelevant to you because you do not possess it. as one you can still be bound and the other is that you're unable to be bound because you are beyond said thing
 
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ImmortalDread said:
What is DT opinion about this?
Click to expand...
He disagrees entirely but is so far the only staff to disagree. Everyone else is fine with it to some extent.

TheGreatJedi13 said:
Edit: furthermore nonduality granting immunity would be limited as well as anyone who can impose a law system of duality upon someone nondual will be affected if we go by that definition that they are not superior/transcendent to it. There is a clear difference between how something is irrelevant to you because you are beyond it and it is irrelevant to you because you do not possess it. as one you can still be bound and the other is that you're unable to be bound because you are beyond said thing
Click to expand...
Transdual characters can still be bound to dualities encompassing higher dimensions, it'd be a NLF otherwise. Also, I wouldn't say the possibility of becoming 'bound' to duality is a reason to make nonduality's immunity limited; After all, we give soulless beings full immunity to soul manipulation despite the fact that they can be given a soul through other means.
 
Antvasima said:
What do you think about this?
Click to expand...
DontTalkDT said:
So what effect does non-duality have that is shared between all users of the power?
If the answer is none, then why would we have it as one power, instead of having it as a mechanism to separate powers?

Edit: And I definitely agree that nonduality does not imply immunity to anything on its own. That's a proposal that has been rejected several times before. What nonduality does when you attack the character depends entirely on the extended system of logic that is used and depending on which inference rules you put in that system any possible outcome is imaginable.
Click to expand...
DT has disagreed with the thread, would you like to ping for further input? This is a wide revision that impacts a lot of profiles.
Note that this is not the first time thread and the concept of the thread has been rejected multiple times.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
The draft looks good.

However, I'm completely opposed to treating transduality as immunity to all instances of duality across every possible extension of reality. We have never treated the transcendence of a concept as extending beyond what's been shown, not even in regards to the previous transduality standards, because it'd be a huge NLF otherwise. Without that, we'd get shit where a tier 9 character could conceivably resist tier 0 hax just because "transduality lol". It's better to leave transduality as it is.
Click to expand...
Looks reasonable, then we just keep transduality as it is and add a nonduality section

Ant and qawsedf agree on this if I'm not wrong but DT is in oppose so a 2:1 ratio for now unless DT updates his stance
 
Ohh I see! then a 4:1 ratio is already enough to pass this thread afaik, maybe ask Ant for the approval of applying this revision if we are clear on everything
 
It's a pretty big revision concerning wiki policy, so I'll leave it up to Ant. However, I'm personally fine if the changes are applied so I can go ahead and make the update thread.
 
ant is a blind dingbat & featherbrained bigot. i won't have his word. stop slandering my baby transdualism;; you are nitpicking & biased
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Nonduality just means you're outside some binary system. But being outside of something doesn't prevent someone from forcing it upon you or from something from a Higher Dimensional perspective from including you in a greater system.

Or in other words, Nonduality of life and death just means you're outside of the natural system of life and death. If someone has death manipulation and can force it on you then the character would be immune to it.
Click to expand...
Dont understand bruh... it is like say transduality is beyond every duality in every dimensionality, so transduality cannot include in every higher system. Doesnt that NLF???

Like we brought up again the TD 3 and TD 4 that must be 1A because some absurd and arbitrary thing like transcend duality on conceptual level
 
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Zexer1 said:
Yea


Transduality capably being beyond duality on a conceptual level is already mentioned in the transduality page idk why, it should maybe get changed with a more fitting description
Click to expand...
Bruh.... just delete this ability, it become more absurd and chaos, or just change it to conceptual transcendence
 
Non-duality for Beginners, a Lesson by Rakih Muraiz Elyan.

Before anyone says that I'm derailing the thread, I agree with the separation of Transduality and Non-duality.

But I create this post to bridge the understanding between a person who understand duality, and those who are not.

I'm sorry if my post disturbed this thread, staff can delete this post if they want.

Let's begin this.




So what is a duality? A duality is an instance of opposition or contrast between two concepts or two aspects of something; a dualism.

Example are fire and water, yin and yang, Existence and Non-existence, light and dark, etc.

They oppose and/or contrast with each other, fire oppose water, yin oppose yang, etc.

To understand what each type in Transduality or Non-duality mean, let me analogue this in number.

Let just say there is a natural number (..., -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, ...), and it contain duality and non-duality inside it.

Let say water are number 1 and the opposite of water are fire which is -1. And then there light, we imagines it as number 2, therefore it counterpart darkness are number -2. And the rest of duality in this natural number analogue follow this logic.

The positive spectrum of positive number (1, 2, 3, 4, ...)(Water, Light, etc) oppose the spectrum of the negative number (-1, -2, -3, -4, ...)(Fire, Dark, etc), they are duality because they oppose eachother.

While 0 are non-duality, it is neither positive nor negative. They're outside duality.

Type 1 is when something or someone state of being are outside a singular or some duality but still affected by the rest of duality.

Like someone is outside the duality of fire and water, but still affected by the duality of light and dark.

Type 2 is where their state of being is neither positive number (1, 2, 3, 4, ...)(Water, Light and all of concept in positive number) nor negative (-1, -2, -3, -4, ...)(Fire, Dark and all of concept in the negative number), they're completely exist outside all duality in this natural number analogue.

Their state of being is simply 0(zero), a complete non-duality.

Well, what is type 3 then? If being exist outside all duality in this natural number analogue are just type 2, why there exist type 3?

What can be more non-dual than being outside all of duality itself? Than being 0 (zero) itself? Than neither positive nor negative?

Well my friend, let me ask you.

What is the opposite of non-duality?

The opposite of non-duality is duality itself, the opposite of zero is all of the remaining natural numbers themselves.

That mean, Duality and Non-duality are actually a duality in and of themselves.

Type 3 is given to a being that completely exist outside this Duality and Non-duality "duality", they exist outside the duality and non-duality analogue of this natural numbers.

So how to describe this state of being? Well, they're not described by any number, maybe they are described by letter (A, B, C, D, ...)? Or by symbols (@, #, $, ...)?

Anyways, this mark the end of this post.

I hope this post help anyone who read this in understanding duality in the most simplest way possible.

Thank you.
 
Rakih_Elyan said:
Non-duality for Beginners, a Lesson by Rakih Muraiz Elyan.

Before anyone says that I'm derailing the thread, I agree with the separation of Transduality and Non-duality.

But I create this post to bridge the understanding between a person who understand duality, and those who are not.

I'm sorry if my post disturbed this thread, staff can delete this post if they want.

Let's begin this.




So what is a duality? A duality is an instance of opposition or contrast between two concepts or two aspects of something; a dualism.

Example are fire and water, yin and yang, Existence and Non-existence, light and dark, etc.

They oppose and/or contrast with each other, fire oppose water, yin oppose yang, etc.

To understand what each type in Transduality or Non-duality mean, let me analogue this in number.

Let just say there is a natural number (..., -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, ...), and it contain duality and non-duality inside it.

Let say water are number 1 and the opposite of water are fire which is -1. And then there light, we imagines it as number 2, therefore it counterpart darkness are number -2. And the rest of duality in this natural number analogue follow this logic.

The positive spectrum of positive number (1, 2, 3, 4, ...)(Water, Light, etc) oppose the spectrum of the negative number (-1, -2, -3, -4, ...)(Fire, Dark, etc), they are duality because they oppose eachother.

While 0 are non-duality, it is neither positive nor negative. They're outside duality.

Type 1 is when something or someone state of being are outside a singular or some duality but still affected by the rest of duality.

Like someone is outside the duality of fire and water, but still affected by the duality of light and dark.

Type 2 is where their state of being is neither positive number (1, 2, 3, 4, ...)(Water, Light and all of concept in positive number) nor negative (-1, -2, -3, -4, ...)(Fire, Dark and all of concept in the negative number), they're completely exist outside all duality in this natural number analogue.

Their state of being is simply 0(zero), a complete non-duality.

Well, what is type 3 then? If being exist outside all duality in this natural number analogue are just type 2, why there exist type 3?

What can be more non-dual than being outside all of duality itself? Than being 0 (zero) itself? Than neither positive nor negative?

Well my friend, let me ask you.

What is the opposite of non-duality?

The opposite of non-duality is duality itself, the opposite of zero is all of the remaining natural numbers themselves.

That mean, Duality and Non-duality are actually a duality in and of themselves.

Type 3 is given to a being that completely exist outside this Duality and Non-duality "duality", they exist outside the duality and non-duality analogue of this natural numbers.

So how to describe this state of being? Well, they're not described by any number, maybe they are described by letter (A, B, C, D, ...)? Or by symbols (@, #, $, ...)?

Anyways, this mark the end of this post.

I hope this post help anyone who read this in understanding duality in the most simplest way possible.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
I understand about this i just have problem with transduality will become more absurd and NLF
 
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