Well I could not find the thread, so I will try and keep this short and see where it leads
I dislike the way we treat transduality now. Evidently, I'm not the only one, since nobody, not even the staff, seem to abide by the rules we have set in place for the power. This is because of the requirement that any prospective user should have "qualitative superiority" over the dualities they are unbound from, and merely being absent of duality doesn't qualify. This is ******* insane for several reasons, so here we go.
We Made Transduality Up
Look up the word 'transduality' and what will you find? Various VS debating pages and that's it. It is not a real term that exists, and the fact that only battleboarders know what the hell it means is a red flag. Of course, duality (and by extension, nonduality) is a very real thing that has been documented across history; Countless religions, most notably eastern religions such as Taoism, Buddhism, and Hinduism, make use of nondualism in their belief systems. The Yin-Yang, arguably the most important symbol related to duality, is in fact a representation of everything acting as a part of a nondual whole. The Taiji, which we currently use as the defining symbol on the transduality page, is a similar symbol, one representing the oneness before duality and giving birth to the Yin-Yang. The problem? Despite literal centuries of dualism being discussed in theology and philosophy, none of this shit comes even close to qualitative superiority. This means the real world basis for the power itself uses nonduality and not transduality, something that we even directly acknowledge on the page itself by choosing to use Taiji as the symbol.
Transduality is meant to be above a particular duality and Taiji is the most prominent example of duality in theory.
Also, Taiji is not based on non-duality but rather duality itself
Transduality Rejects the Most Archetypal Users of the Power
Imagine if someone changed the time stop qualifications so characters like Dio Brando would no longer qualify. That'd be absurd, right? Because Dio's time stop is, of course, a thing he is very well known for, to the point where he is THE character many people associate with stopping time. So why do we allow the same for transduality? We can look at every example given on the transduality page, and see just how silly this is. To be clear, I'm not denying or attempting to debunk any character on this list, merely showing how overly strict transduality's standards are.
People granting the ability to pages that do not qualify are not grounds that the ability is wrong.
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Kamen Rider Gaim: Said to have 'transcended' life and death, which contextually refers to escaping the cycle of life/death or destruction/creation. Does not qualify for qualitative superiority.
This is immo type 5 only and not TD, and should never have been TD to begin with since it spoke nothing on the nature of how it transcended it
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Rimuru Tempest: Said to have become a 'transcendent god' over Veldanava, who is a being predating the duality of light and darkness, or yin and yang. Does not qualify for qualitative superiority.
it does qualify for qualitative superiority
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Lucifer Morningstar: Exists outside of God's plans, which include the duality of life and death. Does not qualify for qualitative superiority.
it does qualify with more contexts, since he transcends this God's plan
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Sun Wukong via
Buddhism Physiology: Transcendent Monks are free from attachment to all universes, containing countless phenomena governed by the yin and yang. Does not qualify for qualitative superiority.
I do not know th context to this, so I will leave it
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Dragon Talisman characters: Exists outside the Empyrean Dao, which created duality, and therefore exist outside duality itself. Does not qualify for qualitative superiority.
Yes it does not qualify
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Khorne: The Aethyric Void is a place where all concepts, normally separate in higher realms, break down and combine into a single, universal abstract. Does not qualify for qualitative superiority.
Does not qualify for TD itself
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Oblivion: Unbound by the laws of everything that is and isn't, and is stated to be similar to the taoist concept of
wuji. Does not qualify for qualitative superiority.
he does qualify though
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Swirl of the Root: Exists beyond and encompasses all duality, including the taiji, a nondual state of oneness. Does not qualify for qualitative superiority.
it qualifies for qualitative superiority
From this, we can see that every single character listed on the transduality page -
characters who are supposed to have the most clear cut, well known, and well explained examples of transduality on the wiki -
does not even qualify for transduality. Now, some of these characters are said to 'transcend' duality, but we explicitly
do not allow qualitative superiority to be given on the basis of transcendence without context, so not even
that qualifies. Some of you may recall the changes made to type 5 acausality, where the standards became so overly strict that no character on the wiki qualified. What we see now is the exact same, and just like type 5 acausality, it's a sign that something needs to change.
I can see a lot of incredulity in this posts, you do not know about these characters and claim they do not possess Qualitative superiority over the reality the duality exists in, they do case in point, at least the ones I know of and mentioned above
Requiring Qualitative Superiority Makes No Sense
Qualitative superiority is,
as we consider it, a state wherein everything beneath you is seen as uncountably infinitely small. This can be achieved merely through infinite differences in spatial dimensions, or by seeing lower planes as something akin to fiction. As of now, we also consider qualitative superiority over duality as a requirement for transduality, disallowing the mere absence of duality, a standard which, as shown above, is ridiculous. However, there are two other reasons why qualitative superiority should not be the benchmark for nonduality.
You forgot the important one, the major one for TD which is 'Ontological' difference, a state where those dualities are unreal to you or non-existent or you cannot even distinguished between them and thinks they are the same/unreal, that is the most important Qualitative difference when it comes to TD
Logically, non-duality can and should do everything that transduality does. If someone transcends life and death, they'd of course be in a state of deathless immortality, neither alive nor dead, and therefore immune to the manipulation of life and death. But the exact same goes for non-duality. If you exist absent of life and death, then you'd still have deathless immortality, you'd still be neither alive nor dead, and you'd still be immune to life or death manipulation. The same goes for any other duality there is, so why do we insist on requiring transcendence?
I think you made a big mistake in your life and death classification there. If you neither alive or dead, you are an undead and do not qualify for Immortality type 5, Transcending it though, like I explained above that is TD and also Immortality type 5
There is a difference between not alive and not dead, and transcending it altogether.
Also TD is for people who are immune to the said dualities, with non-duality, there is no shared powers between the users, you will have to explain what each powers do specifically since been non-dual to things for different verse grants different applications which is not the case with TD. and let me use a statement from DT
Nonduality just means that you are in a state neither A or not A. So, say you are nondual regarding the distinction of "getting hit" and "not getting hit". What would then happen if someone throws a stone at you? The answer is, that what would happen is impossible to predict just from the given information. It can't be that you get hit or that you not get hit, but the action can still have some consequence in the altered system of logic you obey. You could, for instance, go from your current nondual state into another nondual state, which is different in nature. It could for instance be a nondual state that is in practice similar to being dead. That's not a result that is logically excluded.
In fact, it could also simply be "get a wound". You get neither hit nor not hit, but the wound still appears in the logic system in question. There is no logical reason why that can't be the response of just any nondual logic system.
A nondual logic system adds more possibilities as for what could happen, but it doesn't really add any restrictions as for what can't happen.
So no, a nondual character actually has no resistance to dual systems per default, because in the nondual system they are in dual actions can still have consequences.
But worse than all that, we don't even consider what it actually means to be qualitatively superior in this context. It's fairly easy to apply QS to a physical structure like a universe, but concepts are a different ball game entirely; Can you really be 'infinitely larger than' life and death? What does it mean to be uncountably infinitely greater than existence and non-existence? Or, to give a more specific example, does it make any sense at all for a character to transcend the duality of reality and fiction by viewing it as fiction? As a consequence of this QS requirement, anybody with low 1-C tiering or 5D HDE would just, have transduality by default because they are technically transcending the dualities present in lower dimensions. Zero thought was put into how and why 'qualitative superiority' would even work in this context; Ostensibly, it was only added in order to make transduality harder to get and therefore more "special", or the inclusion of QS could ironically make transduality something that every tier 1 character gets.
This is an argument that is wrong, Simply transcending a world does not grant TD, read the page, dualities are not things like water and fire, and physical things, they are abstract and logical things "A duality refers to a logical duality for the purpose of this ability."
That is to say "alive" and "not alive", "water" and "not water" e.t.c. Logical dualities do not just present themselves unless it has been established in a verse to be so. So transcending a universe does not mean you transcend all logical dualities in a universe.
Also stop your whole uncountable infinite larger than life and death, addressed what transcendence in this sense means up above
TL;DR: Transduality's standards are nonsensical, overly strict, and quite literally everybody on this site ignores them anyways. Transduality should be changed to non-duality.
An ability that is applied wrongly to some page is not a reason to change the ability, simply create a thread and fix those pages. In fact most of those examples should be revised, it is not usually logical dualities
Also, if what you are asking is to add an extra type to the TD page so we can add people who are just non-dual and not TD, then that I can agree to and see some harm but nothing we cannot handle, but changing the whole thing is something I disagree with as TD has more application in Battle boarding than Non-duality.
My main support goes behind deleting the page, I have never seen TD used as an argument in vs battles, so it is not really a relevant page.
