Transcendent Reiatsu in Bleach

[AppleLord]

Transcendent reiatsu makes no sense at all. Aizen was surprised by been able to destroyed a hill size mountain and the Fragor was calc at least city level to mountain level in his "God" form. Transcendent shouldn't powerscale to final arc at all.

Transcendent reiatsu is having so much reiatsu that your opponenet is no longer able to sense you, because you're not on the same level of power that he is at the moment. Mostly how God ki was ignore in DBSuper.

Context

Isshin, Urahara, and Yoruichi couldn't sense Aizen's reiatsu during their fight. (Isshin made the claimed. The others didn't refused.)

Bankai Ichigo who isn't transcendent at the moment (after gaining his new hollow mask, and restraining himself, Aizen accused him of holding back because of fear toward his hollow side) was able to sense Aizen's "transcendent" reiatsu which gave Isshin the idea to train Ichigo in the Dangai, so he could be more skillful when he had to face Aizen again.

"Transcendent" Reiatsu wasn't drop in the final arc. Kubo decided not to talk about it directly. It was always there. All "transcendent" should be downgraded to their own feats, the canon novels confirmed the Soul King to be transcendent yet many characters in the manga were able to sense him, Yhwach and Ichigo. Even Soi Fon said that the Soul King was dead because she could no longer feel his Reiatsu in the Soul King Palace.

 

[Peter1129]

I mean the trascendeant stuff doesn't really matter anymore since Base Aizen and a lot of other characters are going to become High 6-A due to the novel saying Shunsui, Tokinada, and Yoruichi are all comparable to Post-Training Byakuya who is High 6-A.

 

[AppleLord]

I mean the trascendeant stuff doesn't really matter anymore since Base Aizen and a lot of other characters are going to become High 6-A due to the novel saying Shunsui, Tokinada, and Yoruichi are all comparable to Post-Training Byakuya who is High 6-A.

Tokinada never mentioned base Aizen. Going with my post here I should add that Shunsui was able to stand close to Aizen without getting harm by his Reiatsu, and Shunsui was the one who brought him to the battlefield in the first place as we see Shunsui coming out from behind Aizen when they arrived. Shunsui was also able to to sense Aizen using a kido and warm everyone to get inside.

 

[Peter1129]

I know Tokinada never mentioned Aizen. But we already know that Base Aizen > Shunsui so he's also going to become High 6-A. Same with a bunch of other characters like Unohana and Base/Shikai Yamamoto.

But yeah I agree the transcendent stuff is BS.

 

[AppleLord]

Didn't Kubo said in an interview that Bankai Shunsui could kill base Aizen in Karakura town? I wouldn't put Aizen above Shunsui since Lisa call on him for been lazy and holding back.

 

[Peter1129]

Wasn't the statement about Shunsui being comparable when he was in Base or Shikai? Pretty sure that would still scale to Base Aizen.

 

[AppleLord]

Shunsui definitely needs two keys. Shunsui in base was unaffected by Muken Aizen's reiatsu and was able to sense his attacks coming.

 

[Sekkonds.]

Fraor was calced to be large island level..ultra fragor is around country level

 

[Warren_Valion]

Didn't the seals on Aizen suppress the radius for his reiatsu?

Isn't that why Shunshui was allowed to get near Aizen, and why that other guy was dissolved because he got too close?

Also, other moments where Shunsui was near Aizen could just be Aizen lowering his energy down to a level where Shunsui can safely touch him and bring him to a battlefield for instance.

 

[AppleLord]

Didn't the seals on Aizen suppress the radius for his reiatsu?

Isn't that why Shunshui was allowed to get near Aizen, and why that other guy was dissolved because he got too close?

Also, other moments where Shunsui was near Aizen could just be Aizen lowering his energy down to a level where Shunsui can safely touch him and bring him to a battlefield for instance.

No.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Transcendency is literally on and off with Kubo.

Aizen was transcendent and unable to be felt by others except Bankai Ichigo who wasn't transcendent (however Ichigo had the potential and did reach this level).

Dangai Ichigo was transcendent since Tatsuki and friends couldn't feel him either.

Kenpachi in the final arc was unable to be felt by Shinigami when he went to face Gremmy.

Ichibei wasn't able to be felt by Yhwach in their fight once Ichibei used Shikai.


Despite all this, Soul King Yhwach, EoS Aizen and Ichigo were still able to be felt by others even though we had direct confirmation they were more powerful than they had been before and Yhwach having literally transcended the rest of the series.

Pretty much just ignore transcendency, Kubo doesn't care about it, so why should we?

Just scale characters by their feats and statements of power while also using common sense to tell who is at least stronger than who.

Like it's obvious Monster Aizen was stronger than everyone except Dangai Ichigo at that point in the series.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I really wish Kubo was more consistent with this concept.

I think it's really cool.

 

[HST_Master]

^ This

People put too much stock in transcendence for the sake of their argument when it's inconsistent.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

imo, the trancedant shit is nothing more than symbolical for 'way above league'. shunsui and his friend, captain guy were both called that by yamamoto, as they were a billion times over in supiriority to any other captain alive at the time (under them was unohana and gin, while aizen was just slightly above, meanwhile kisuke and yoruichi were their semi equals).

 

[AppleLord]

It seems everyone agrees with a downgrade for Dangai Ichigo and God Aizen.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Why would we downgrade Dangai Ichigo and God Aizen? No one agreed to or even mentioned it in this thread. We have them where they are because of Yhwach stating True Shikai is the same level of power as Dangai and the novels saying that Kyoraku, Yoruichi and thus Aizen are at the same level/superior to post RG Byakuya who scales to Kenpachi's High 6-A feat.

 

[MetalGearRaiden]

also,heres a thing: it was stated,that no Shinigami can hurt Kototsu Train so even Yamamoto with his bankai,who is High 6-A, shouldn't be able to harm Kototsu so by that we have one solid Feat: God Aizen > Kototsu > Bankai Yamamoto

so why would you downgrade God Aizen and Mugetsu Ichigo?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Thats pretty bad ABC logic. Yamamoto can't destroy the Kototsu due to compatibility, not because he necessarily is weaker than it.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I find it funny how everyone agrees the Transcendent stuff is dumb, but it still obvious that through feats, common sense, scaling and statements that Hogyoku Aizen and Dangai Ichigo were still powerful, yet the OP thinks everyone agrees with downgrading the two.

Really this won't affects ratings. We don't have transcendent reasonings applied to profiles. It's based on scaling, statements and feats.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I find it funny how everyone agrees the Transcendent stuff is dumb, but it still obvious that through feats, common sense, scaling and statements that Hogyoku Aizen and Dangai Ichigo were still powerful, yet the OP thinks everyone agrees with downgrading the two.
Really this won't affects ratings. We don't have transcendent reasonings applied to profiles. It's based on scaling, statements and feats.

I think the Transcendent stuff is cool, but how poorly it was handled and how inconsistent it is - is what makes it dumb.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I have to agree with Warren, it's a cool concept that was kind of just thrown to the way side in a way when the series started jumping the shark.

And this entire thread makes no sense. Last I saw statements, feats and other stuff unrelated to this Transcendence shenanigan are the fundation for the ratings in those profiles.

 

[Naeblis495]

remeber that transcendant being can be sensed if they want to :https://www.***********.net/bleach/420/17

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Like what is the purpose of this thread? nothing in any of the profiles have anything to do with transendence, the term literally just means stronger then everyone else by a large margin. It isn't anything mystical lol.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I remember people acting like I was crazy when I brought this up a couple of months back....

 

[AppleLord]

Like what is the purpose of this thread? nothing in any of the profiles have anything to do with transendence, the term literally just means stronger then everyone else by a large margin. It isn't anything mystical lol.

This weaker Ichigo could sense Aizen's reiatsu proving that in the final arc transcendent beings could still be sense by others and Dangai Ichigo and God Aizen shouldn't powerscale to final arc just because they are transcendent.

 

[Naeblis495]

Like what is the purpose of this thread? nothing in any of the profiles have anything to do with transendence, the term literally just means stronger then everyone else by a large margin. It isn't anything mystical lol.

This weaker Ichigo could sense Aizen's reiatsu proving that in the final arc transcendent beings could still be sense by others and Dangai Ichigo and God Aizen shouldn't powerscale to final arc just because they are transcendent.

they don't scale because of that , they scale because there are statements that aizen became more powerfull than ever while still sealed and that yhwach said that true shikai ichigo with the HoS is so strong that he must use his hax to fight him , clearly saying that it is on his level.

https://www.***********.net/bleach/622/13

https://www.***********.net/bleach/677/7

 

[AppleLord]

Like what is the purpose of this thread? nothing in any of the profiles have anything to do with transendence, the term literally just means stronger then everyone else by a large margin. It isn't anything mystical lol.

This weaker Ichigo could sense Aizen's reiatsu proving that in the final arc transcendent beings could still be sense by others and Dangai Ichigo and God Aizen shouldn't powerscale to final arc just because they are transcendent.

they don't scale because of that , they scale because there are statements that aizen became more powerfull than ever while still sealed and that yhwach said that true shikai ichigo with the HoS is so strong that he must use his hax to fight him , clearly saying that it is on his level.
https://www.***********.net/bleach/622/13

https://www.***********.net/bleach/677/7

Aizen becoming stronger doesn't affect the backscaling at all. Shikai Ichigo been as strong as Dangai Ichigo applies to powerscaling, but God Aizen doesn't scale to Dangai Ichigo's AP once the Reiatsu AP =|= Durability thread gets approved.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Every form of Aizen is superior to Kyoraku, Yoruichi, Urahara etc which means he scales to Kenpachi. Logic dictates that every successive form which is stronger than the previous would scale as well. Transcendent reiatsu isn't the reasoning for anything.

 

[Naeblis495]

aizen lauched a stronger kurohitsugi without chant and while still sealed than his god form with chant , it totally affect the scaling.

he is still strong enough to react and hypnotize yhwach , so his reiatsu isn't that much weaker than his otherwise yhwach would just passively null KS just like aizen nulled Soi fon's . and he is still sealed .

yes ichigo is stronger than aizen in AP , stronger than yhwach even by his own words if yhwach is scarred of shikai HoS then bankai HoS would stomp him in AP , but they are still in the same tier of power.

 

[AppleLord]

Every form of Aizen is superior to Kyoraku, Yoruichi, Urahara etc which means he scales to Kenpachi. Logic dictates that every successive form which is stronger than the previous would scale as well. Transcendent reiatsu isn't the reasoning for anything.

Shunsui didn't used Bankai against Aizen so you cannot assume he is stronger when Lisa confirmed that Shunsui was playing around in the Karakura Town Arc and wasn't serious about fighting at all. Shunsui is also not affected by Muken Aizen's reiatsu and he can sense his attacks coming before Aizen even uses them. Shunsui also fought Lille Barro who was transcendent since Nanao sword only affects Gods. We don't know if they scale to Kenpachi but we know they scale to Byakuya from the final arc.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Apple

Aizen is still superior. Just because Kyoraku didn't use Bankai or was playing around doesn't change the fact he was oneshot by base Aizen.

As we have already established, Transcendant is inconsistent and thus means nothing.

How can you say they scale to Byakuya but don't know if they scale to Kenpachi when Byakuya has his rating from scaling to Kenpachi?

 

[Naeblis495]

shunsui could have potentially beaten base aizen with his bankai yes and maybe potentially cocoon mode aizen but as soon as aizen grew his hair it was impossible for shunsui to beat him as he was immortal and even his bankai's final act would ust be regenerated just like Lille did and shunsui would completly lost in a battle of attrition against aizen godly ammount of reiatsu.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Is Ichigo "really" on Yhwach's level though? Despite his statements (Which don't outright State he is), Ichigo doesn't really have to be equal to Yhwach to hurt him. Plus the fact Yhwach was still pretty casually fighting him.

 

[Naeblis495]

yhwach say two page before that ichigo after launching the GRcero was still holding back his hollow powers trying to make yhwach lower his guard and not use almighty

https://www.***********.net/bleach/677/5

 

[AppleLord]

@Apple

Aizen is still superior. Just because Kyoraku didn't use Bankai or was playing around doesn't change the fact he was oneshot by base Aizen.

As we have already established, Transcendant is inconsistent and thus means nothing.

How can you say they scale to Byakuya but don't know if they scale to Kenpachi when Byakuya has his rating from scaling to Kenpachi?

Byakuya did better against a stronger version of Gerard than Kenpachi so I don't know why Byakuya scales to Kenpachi.

 

[Sekkonds.]

Is Ichigo "really" on Yhwach's level though? Despite his statements (Which don't outright State he is), Ichigo doesn't really have to be equal to Yhwach to hurt him. Plus the fact Yhwach was still pretty casually fighting him.

Ichigo was stated in the novel to have enough power to become the Soul King,he was able to hurt..cut..kill yhwach more than once

Only because of the almighty yhwach was able to stomp ichigo,without the ability to change the future he was on the same level with ichigo

The difference is in hax,not power

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Apple

A stronger version? Byakuya only attacked a Gerard who was already weakened by Toshiro and didn't have to deal with Hoffnung almost bisecting him before Toshiro power nulled that shit. Kenpachi was pwning Gerard and only lost because of hax and being too strong.

That also doesn't change the fact that Byakuya scales to Kenpachi because Shikai Kenny is the one with the High 6-A feat. Every High 6-A Bleach character scales from Kenpachi and Gremmy.

 

[AppleLord]

Byakuya stop final form Gerard's hand with his bankai, and despite Hitsugaya power not working on Gerars, Byakuya was able to blow him to pieces. Hitsugaya's power null Huffnung but couldn't null the Miracle and Gerard wasn't fully frozen, Gerard was moving when Byakuya killed him.

 

[Naeblis495]

byakuya only blew gerad up BECAUSE it was frozen by toshiro ,don't think he can do that to non frozen one otherwise he would have fodderised all other forms of gerard

 

[AppleLord]

byakuya only blew gerad up BECAUSE it was frozen by toshiro ,don't think he can do that to non frozen one otherwise he would have fodderised all other forms of gerard

Byakuya stop final form Gerard's hand with his bankai like it was nothing, and despite Hitsugaya power not working on Gerard, Byakuya was able to blow him to pieces. Hitsugaya's power null Huffnung but couldn't null the Miracle and Gerard wasn't completely frozen, Gerard was moving when Byakuya killed him.