Trafalgar Law vs Zagred

[Epsilon_R]

Law could probably use Mes and take Zagred out.

With Mes, he spatially takes out his heart, meaning he can't simply regenerate one back, as it wasn't actually destroyed, just spatially displaced.

You don't understand.
1. Removing his heart doesn't kill him, he can still survive.

2. He actually regens starting from his heart

3. His heart can cast spells to attack.

Mes also has sleep manipulation that effects the soul. When used on Smoker, he remained asleep despite his soul being put into Tashigi's body.

Zagred has Resistance to sleep manip

Re-room does not have to be thrown.

Sure but even in that scan, he still needs to make a small room in front of him before it spawns on the target.

Can Zagred's trident destroy space? If not, then I'm not sure how it can 'break down' Re-room.

his trident can affect even space yes.

Even if he does manage to shut him up (assuming he does that soon enough, because Zagred would have thrown several spells including the better ones by the time Law figures out his ability), it doesn't change the fact that Law cannot kill Zagred or even knock him out. He could cut him to bits or rip his heart, it's still not enough. And outrange him isn't really an option as creating large room takes quite some physical strength and would likely run out of Stamina before Zagred


Also Idk what happened to his Deconstruction, it should have been there along with his powernull, regardless it's stated to break down whatever it touches.

 

[Kachon123]

1. Removing his heart doesn't kill him, he can still survive.

I never claimed that it would. The attack Mes doesn't hurt anyone. It's spatially removing a body part. When he squeezes it, that's what hurts.

2. He actually regens starting from his heart

There's nothing to regenerate, as there is no injury.

3. His heart can cast spells to attack.

Mes has Power Nullification. He wouldn't be able to cast spells from his heart once it's removed.

Zagred has Resistance to sleep manip

Proof that he resists sleep manipulation that effects the soul?

Sure but even in that scan, he still needs to make a small room in front of him before it spawns on the target.

Your entire point in bringing up Re-room having to be thrown was that it can be dodged. You now admitting that it spawns on the target makes that point null.

his trident can affect even space yes.

Can I have a scan on how this works?

doesn't change the fact that Law cannot kill Zagred or even knock him out

Law can:

BFR via Shambels teleportation
Incap him via Amputate spatial cuts
Make his soul sleep via Mes

Just to name a few ways.

Also Idk what happened to his Deconstruction, it should have been there along with his powernull, regardless it's stated to break down whatever it touches.

Haki resists devil fruit abilities, which would include the Kage Kage no Mi's Deconstruction. Law can resist this.

outrange him isn't really an option as creating large room takes quite some physical strength and would likely run out of Stamina before Zagred

Creating large rooms takes less stamina than using his Devil Fruit awakening.

Law, after already being brought to the brink of death after his fight on the rooftop and after the first half of his fight with Big Mom, was able to use his Devil Fruit awaking 4 different times, and still have enough energy to fight hordes of Beast Pirates after defeating Big Mom.

 

[noninho]

Law can:

BFR via Shambels teleportation
Incap him via Amputate spatial cuts
Make his soul sleep via Mes

Just to name a few ways.

just as i thought+Haki surely not only guarantees that, but also prolly make him dodge af

please OP, Law FRA

 

[Arkenis]

There's nothing to regenerate, as there is no injury.

This really shouldn't matter, his regeneration isn't based off requiring he needs to be injured, he should be capable of creating another body as he originally existed as a soul and then created a body. He should just be able to say recreate and form a body from that too. Or say return as well

Can I have a scan on how this works?

Whatever the spear touches. it just says its effects can warp space.

 

[Kachon123]

This really shouldn't matter, his regeneration isn't based off requiring he needs to be injured, he should be capable of creating another body as he originally existed as a soul and then created a body. He should just be able to say recreate and form a body from that too. Or say return as well

Again, this wouldn't work. Logia users are also capable of creating new limbs made from their elements, but Law's abilities nullify/negate that.

Whatever the spear touches. it just says its effects can warp space.

Warping space isn't going to do anything to hinder the effects of Room.

 

[noninho]

This really shouldn't matter, his regeneration isn't based off requiring he needs to be injured, he should be capable of creating another body as he originally existed as a soul and then created a body. He should just be able to say recreate and form a body from that too. Or say return as well

don't think you're understanding, mate:
Nothing is needing regen, his heart works exactly like its there, on its regular place, it just isn't. He wouldn't regen it unless its IC for him to think "wow, my heart is there and i'm just fine...hmmm, lemme get another one so no i have two "

but the return theory seems pretty fine, if he's still moving properly that is.

forgor the other point

Whatever the spear touches. it just says its effects can warp space.

it literally does not matter to the effects of room, he'll be deleting...air.

 

[Arkenis]

Again, this wouldn't work. Logia users are also capable of creating new limbs made from their elements, but Law's abilities nullify/negate that.

But this is reality warping based magic. Are the Logia's at all able to replicate that? They don't seem to be from their page so I don't get why him negating that would apply here.

don't think you're understanding, mate:
Nothing is needing regen, his heart works exactly like its there, on its regular place, it just isn't. He wouldn't regen it unless its IC for him to think "wow, my heart is there and i'm just fine...hmmm, lemme get another one so no i have two "

but the return theory seems pretty fine, if he's still moving properly that is.

forgor the other point


it literally does not matter to the effects of room, he'll be deleting...air.

He has creation via word magic which lets him create magical things which is what he uses to remake his body so he should be able to do that here.

 

[noninho]

He has creation via word magic which lets him create magical things which is what he uses to remake his body so he should be able to do that here.

dunno how else to propperly explain:
his body isn't un-made to need a remake.
Mes also incaps the opponent instantly so...no.

But this is reality warping based magic.

cool, but, despite not knowing the character, i think he's intelligent enough to not go "hm, all the sudden is nice to get a 2nd heart while fighting this fella"
Also, again, he's incapped the instant his heart gets out. if this hits, he's f*cked.

 

[Arkenis]

cool, but, despite not knowing the character, i think he's intelligent enough to not go "hm, all the sudden is nice to get a 2nd heart while fighting this fella"
Also, again, he's incapped the instant his heart gets out. if this hits, he's f*cked.

You're confused, Zagred can live as a heart alone, he doesn't need to make a second heart here, just a new body and his magic is capable of that.

 

[Kachon123]

But this is reality warping based magic. Are the Logia's at all able to replicate that? They don't seem to be from their page so I don't get why him negating that would apply here.

The point is that it's Power Null.

 

[noninho]

You're confused, Zagred can live as a heart alone, he doesn't need to make a second heart here, just a new body and his magic is capable of that.

nice feat for him
not usable here tho, cuz he gets incapped until the heart taken off gets on the hole it left, again.
when it gets removed, doesn't give time to say "regenerate", "new body" or....anything.

 

[Arkenis]

The point is that it's Power Null.

And I'm wondering if Law's power null works on reality warping magic.

nice feat for him
not usable here tho, cuz he gets incapped until the heart taken off gets on the hole it left, again.
when it gets removed, doesn't give time to say "regenerate", "new body" or....anything.

I'm confused on how this incaps him, he can speak from his heart so how does this stop that?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

The point is that it's Power Null.

and Resistance to Heat Manipulation with Mana Skin (Mana Skin allows even the average Magic Knights to run across the Yultim Volcano, a Grand Magic Region which can reduce a human into ashes), Power Nullification with Mana Skin (Mana Skin allowed Noelle to cast Sea Dragon's Roar under the presence of an elf) and Sleep Manipulation with Mana Skin (Leopold was able to overcome the effects of Fragil's Snow Magic, which puts her opponents to sleep)

 

[Ryuga21]

Zagred's heart will be compacted into a limited amount of space due Mes hax. Even if he could use World Magic he wouldn't be able to create a new body inside of it.

 

[Ryuga21]

Btw, this argument is based on the premise that Zagred's heart will be normally disconnected from his previous body, which is not true. Zagred was never shown to create two distinct bodies for one heart as far as I know.

 

[Kachon123]

Power Nullification with Mana Skin (Mana Skin allowed Noelle to cast Sea Dragon's Roar under the presence of an elf)

Haki has resistance negation.

 

[Kachon123]

And I'm wondering if Law's power null works on reality warping magic.

Why would it not?

 

[noninho]

I'm confused on how this incaps him

via how the ability works.

Zagred's heart will be compacted into a limited amount of space due Mes hax. Even if he could use World Magic he wouldn't be able to create a new body inside of it.

Also, more than reading, see some videos of it, i'll try finding real quick for ya

Power Nullification with Mana Skin (Mana Skin allowed Noelle to cast Sea Dragon's Roar under the presence of an elf)

more than haki negging it, i swear i couldn't understand what this mean, Elf's sheer presence'd negg that specific magic?

Why would it not?

he's saying like it's not incapping him immediatelly, i don't understand 100% too.
lemme grab video of mes working to help further

 

[Arkenis]

Btw, this argument is based on the premise that Zagred's heart will be normally disconnected from his previous body, which is not true. Zagred was never shown to create two distinct bodies for one heart as far as I know.

Idk why this means he couldn't make a new body with his magic. This isn't me arguing for a new ability, it's simply him making a new body via his magic which has created a new body entirely for him before.

Zagred's heart will be compacted into a limited amount of space due Mes hax. Even if he could use World Magic he wouldn't be able to create a new body inside of it.

Right so this limited space is created via the devil fruit's hax not via Haki? If that's the case then Zagred should be able to destroy it through his word magic or power null it through his presence.

Why would it not?

Well for one from what I understand from the devil fruit page, there's nothing stating it can powernull unholy manipulation based stuff, so how exactly does it power null something it can't effect?

 

[Kachon123]

Well for one from what I understand from the devil fruit page, there's nothing stating it can powernull unholy manipulation based stuff, so how exactly does it power null something it can't effect?

Could you explain this in a better way?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

What has been going on so far

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Could you explain this in a better way?

Only power from the underworld, holy manipulation and purification can destroy the devil heart.

What is Zagred doing that Law is nullifying anyway? I haven’t read the thread.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Btw, this argument is based on the premise that Zagred's heart will be normally disconnected from his previous body, which is not true. Zagred was never shown to create two distinct bodies for one heart as far as I know.

Zagred simply says “return” and his heart will teleport back into his body. Zagred can nullify things by stating “vanish”. I really wonder what’s been going on here. Maybe I’ll read the whole thread before my next reply but a summary would be much appreciated.

 

[Kachon123]

Only power from the underworld, holy manipulation and purification can destroy the devil heart.

That doesn't really answer my question.

What is Zagred doing that Law is nullifying anyway? I haven’t read the thread.

Creating new limbs where Law spatially cut.

 

[Ryuga21]

Right so this limited space is created via the devil fruit's hax not via Haki? If that's the case then Zagred should be able to destroy it through his word magic or power null it through his presence.

Can Zagred destroy space without his spear? Law can imbue haki to Mes btw.

Idk why this means he couldn't make a new body with his magic.

It's because Zagred won't lose his body, Mes doesn't work like that. Law will simply move his heart into space without causing real damage, Zagred's consciousness would still be in his body. You need to prove that Zagred can duplicate himself with World Magic or create another body to his original heart.

 

[Ryuga21]

In fact, this whole discussion about the heart is nonsense, since Mes leads to soul-based incap and powernulls which Zagred can't answer.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Creating new limbs where Law spatially cut.

Zagred doesn’t need to do that anyway.

Can Zagred destroy space without his spear? Law can imbue haki to Mes btw.

What is Mes?

It's because Zagred won't lose his body, Mes doesn't work like that. Law will simply move his heart into space without causing real damage, Zagred's consciousness would still be in his body. You need to prove that Zagred can duplicate himself with World Magic or create another body to his original heart.

Zagred’s consciousness resides in his devil heart. He can grow a mouth on his heart and return himself into his body.

 

[Ryuga21]

What is Mes?

Did you read the entire thread or just your friends' arguments?

 

[noninho]

Only power from the underworld, holy manipulation and purification can destroy the devil heart

we're not talking about destruction. also please read Haki on the wiki

 

[noninho]

i agree so much that i'll refrain from answering arguments for this again since reading here, Law's page and Haki's page explains it all. also dunno why OP didn't add my vote yet

In fact, this whole discussion about the heart is nonsense, since Mes leads to soul-based incap and powernulls which Zagred can't answer.

 

[Arkenis]

In fact, this whole discussion about the heart is nonsense, since Mes leads to soul-based incap and powernulls which Zagred can't answer.

I only see that he can switch souls, what's the soul based incap?

Could you explain this in a better way?

Devils fruits a natural power it seems, not spiritual, not magical, not anything "special" in a sense from what I read.
Zagred's magic is powered by negative mana, how does Law's devil fruit power-nullification work against that?

Law can imbue haki to Mes btw.

Where is this shown? Cause if so this would be good for countering what I've been arguing since haki is spiritual.

 

[Ryuga21]

Where is this shown?

Read Kachon's comments above.

I only see that he can switch souls, what's the soul based incap?

Read Kachon's comments above.

 

[Ryuga21]

Anyway, before this becomes really repetitive and tiring, I keep my vote in Law and... unfollowing now.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Did you read the entire thread or just your friends' arguments?

I’ll just give you another chance to read the first post I’ve made here in the past hour.

we're not talking about destruction. also please read Haki on the wiki

ok.

So this whole heart extraction thing is Mes. Can it be initiated from range?

 

[noninho]

unfortunatelly, no. Mes means Scalpel/Knife, its a close-range-ability afaik

 

[XDragnoir]

Someone will have to explain why exactly Mes would null anything Zagred can do.

Cause, you know, Magic and DFs can't be equalized, so power null isn't helping.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

unfortunatelly, no. Mes means Scalpel/Knife, its a close-range-ability afaik

Okay, Zagred doesn’t typically allow anyone to get close to him in character.

Im going to assume you already know Zagred’s ability to speak into reality (doesn’t work directly on the opponent but definitely on their weapons when he feels like).

Thanks to this, striking his body was rare. He would often just spam his magic around his opponents: “Storm of Blades” (self explanatory), “Split open”(usually the ground beneath the feat as a distraction), “Bind” (to trap opponents with black mass), “iron spears” (summoning multiple spears from ground or air to trap opponents by cruxifying them basically), “get back” (moves opponent backwards obviously), “vanish” (whatever he referring to vanishes; like weapons) and so on. The way around his Word Magic was to blitz him before he completes a word/phrase or outrange him cuz his magic needs a little bit of time to reach his opponent far away before he speaks or catch him off guard. The only time he was hit head on was when Asta and Yuno had to go through hordes of attacks to only graze him on the arm. That’s about it.

Also keep in mind that Zagred can summon his life and body eating monsters whenever he feels like. These monsters continue to fill up a lot of space over time. Also Zagred can summon a mouth anywhere on his body so shutting him up doesn’t look like an option.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Again, this wouldn't work. Logia users are also capable of creating new limbs made from their elements, but Law's abilities nullify/negate that.

Zagred resists layered powernull

 

[Epsilon_R]

So Law's win con is removing his heart, which does nothing to Zagred, and powernull which Zagred resists? Oh and Silencing him ig

Meanwhile Zagred can summon massive AOE spells that fills the space, and he can control them without speaking, meaning even silencing him would not matter.

On top of that he has a higher Stamina can absorb the mana is his surroundings as well.

Voting Zagred

 

[Arnoldstone18]

So Law's win con is removing his heart, which does nothing to Zagred, and powernull which Zagred resists? Oh and Silencing him ig

Zagred can easily return to his body anyway by forming a mouth on his heart and saying “return”.

I don’t understand why Devil fruit powernull is affecting magic but Zagred resists powernull anyway.

All this even assumes Law is successful with touching Zagred’s chest without getting moved, stabbed, beaten, battered, crushed, etc. by multiple attacks spammed his way.

But yeah I guess I’m voting Zagred.