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Touhou's Top Tier: 5-A

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Saikou_The_Lewd_King

The King of all Things Lewd
VS Battles
Retired
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Re-made version of an old thread.

Suika busting heavens. Back then, it was rated 5-C, as she destroyed a portion of it large enough to reflect the moon. But it was later debunked, since you don't need to be as big as something to mess with its reflection. However, one of the Music CD seems to give a number for Heaven's size.

"Hell is actually about thirty nine thousand yojana high; that means that its ceiling is far closer, just a thousand yojana from the surface."

As noted above, a Yojana is 7 kilometers. So 39 000 yojanas is 273000 kilometers. That's far larger than Jupiter. Here, we can see that Hell is square-y in shape. So it's not simply very high and thin. Solid 5-A there.

This apply to the Old Hell, but the actual hell should be somewhat larger, as they originally moved from Old Hell as it was too small. But it should also apply to Heaven, as it should be similar in size (They both serve the same purpose, and most Hell resident are temporary).

Suika casually reduced Heavens to dust. So obviously it scales too her. It should also apply to Yukari and Yuugi. Note that I think it should apply to most of the (Previously Low 6-B) top tier. Kishin are a kind of powerful Onis that rules over Hell, and most Onis. Their strength should be comparable to Suika or Yuugi. In turn, most Hermit must fight Kishins regularly. So strong Hermits like Miko and Seiga. They should in turn scale to Religious leaders like Reimu, Byarkuren, etc.

Also, since the gap from the 6-C fodder rating would be gigantic now, some more characters would be upgraded to keep up. Aya Shameimaru (While weaker than Suika, she is noted to be extremely strong among Youkai), Eiki (Lol), Kase (Comparable to Onis, most likely. Also an Hermit), Seiga , and probably others.

Several supporting statements/feats:

Miko created Senkai. Which have been shown to visibly hosts a whole functional moon in it.

Marisa's spell card has been stated to be able to pull two large planets away. The Spell Card itself only last a few seconds, and it should move the planets by a significant amount if they were said to be pulled away. So it's more than likely 5-A.

In Kaguya's spell card description, ZUN denotes that such spell cards are like playthings. Said spell card has Kaguya pushes the moon far away (With hax however). Implying that things like the moon are mere playthings to them.

Doremy made the game's dream world , which contains both a fully functional version of Earth and Moon.

Some of Remilia's Spell Card moves the moon closer, and moves it back. While it could be an illusion or whatever, I think it's still important to note.

TL;DR

Reimu, Marisa, Yukari, Ran, Remilia, Flandre, Kaguya, Utsuho, Suwako, Suika, Tenshi, Eirin, Yuyuko, Patchouli, Kanako, Mokou, Yuuka, Aya, Yorihime, Toyohime, Byakuren, Yuugi, Sagume, Doremy, Miko, Shou, Sukuna, Eiki, Mamizou, Giant Catfish, Dragon God, Rinnosuke and Kasen, possibly Youmu, Sakuya, Sanae, Letty and Alice (With her dolls) should be upgraded to Large Planet level.
 
Seems to be pretty good here.

Just hope DT really just takes this as fine enough and we can just get this upgrade over with.
 
no, this is patrick.

If you mean the origin for the quote above, it's more like the story that goes with the song.
 
Eh. Depending on what level of the story with a song this is. If it's Steven Universe esque with its songs, then I'll accept it, becausa a huge amount of lore comes with it. If not, then I would disagree, because with the same feats I can get FTL Santa via "cause just exactly at twelve o'clock, he'll be coming down the chimney now" from the song Happy Holidays.
 
It's like important lore stuff. Whole characters are introduced in those, and we get many specification about how the world works.
 
I support the upgrades.

I also think Youmu, Sakuya, Sanae and Alice should definitely scale to this. And Hatate. As Aya's rival and all.
 
Admittedly I forgot about Hatate's existence for a sec, but yeah, her being equal to Hatate makes sense.
 
Everyone forgets about Hatate. Poor Hatate.

This also further supports Star Level Okuu so just leaving it out there. I remember DT saying Marisa being planetary wasn't right because of lore or something or how it 'betrays' her character or something like that? Then again with all these characters, I don't think that's really an issue.
 
Eh, I don't know. If Suika does actually tear Heaven to dust, would someone from above would have complained to it by now? (which is pretty late already) Also I remember something about Marisa's spell being a hyperbole...
 
She smacked it into dust, and unsmacked it back, remember.

Nah. It was refused due to being an outlier at the time.
 
Still, that's going to leave a hole in Heaven's pride.

...Though I remember that she casually going up into Tenshi's floor of Heaven, so maybe she got enough of the rapsheet already.

Edit:...Though even Marisa could climb onto Heaven, so maybe it's Yukari's influence.
 
Suika beat the shit out of Tenshi so much, she owns parts of Heaven now. It's not that surprising.
 
...Though even Marisa could climb onto Heaven, so maybe it's Yukari's influence.

And isn't that without permission? We didn't see any follow up plotline though.
 
I guess, but no one's stopping Suika anyway.

Although this isn't exactly relevant to the subject at hand anymore so I'd be better to drop it.
 
If I had any objections it would purely be the reliability of the Spell Card descriptions and whether or not that it's mere metaphorical in nature. Of course, I have nothing to support this.
 
Royalty of House Scarlet said:
If I had any objections it would purely be the reliability of the Spell Card descriptions and whether or not that it's mere metaphorical in nature. Of course, I have nothing to support this.
Second that. Also the doubt that Suika actually tear the entire heaven, instead of just one part of it.
 
Andykhang said:
Royalty of House Scarlet said:
If I had any objections it would purely be the reliability of the Spell Card descriptions and whether or not that it's mere metaphorical in nature. Of course, I have nothing to support this.
Second that. Also the doubt that Suika actually tear the entire heaven, instead of just one part of it.
Suika states that the way to destroy the moon's reflection would be to "shatter the heavens". Aya does state shortly following the interview with Suika that oni could probably shatter all of heaven while blindfolded and one hand tied behind their backs. Though this could just be Aya's great respect for Suika and the oni, Suika did this casually with a single punch, and absolutely owned Tenshi who is a celestial that messes with weather and causes earthquakes that caused her to give Suika a chunk of heaven just to stop beating the crap outta her. So I'm inclinded to agree that she didn't destroy all of heaven, but there's evidence to avert this and that she could probably achieve heaven's total destruction if she wanted to.
 
You can't just assume that Suika destroyed just a part of it. The text made it clear enough that it was all destroyed, casually at that.

It's also unlikely to be metaphorical here, since it's not represented in the Spell Card nor is it a mythological references. Moreover, times when a Spell is just a metaphor seems rare enough that Marisa points it out in her Grimoire
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
It's also unlikely to be metaphorical here, since it's not represented in the Spell Card nor is it a mythological references. Moreover, times when a Spell is just a metaphor seems rare enough that Marisa points it out in her Grimoire
If that is indeed entirely correct, without any metaphorical context added (and if most Spell Cards are metaphorical in natura), you should include that Eirin should receive an update stating that her Galaxy in a Pot Spell would directly cause a black hole, as stated under the Spell Card description: "That would easily make a black hole. I wonder how long it'll take for us to build a black hole station." This statement too isn't directly representated in the Spell nor directly referencing any mythological event from my knowledge. It should be subjected to the same fair addition that Astroid Belt would also share if it is added.
 
Well in Eirin's case, it speaks more in a possibility manner. That the spell would easily make a black hole, unlike Marisa's which directly states that it can do it. But yeah.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Well in Eirin's case, it speaks more in a possibility manner. That the spell would easily make a black hole, unlike Marisa's which directly states that it can do it. But yeah.
Regardless, it should at least be considered a possible feat for Eirin. If many Spell Card aren't merely metaphorical as I've been lead to believe over the years, than I have no further objections to make, and I support the update. And also, good work on the compliation of feats.
 
Bring up valid counter-arguments then. This is one thing to accept an upgrade just for the upgrade, but just refusing the upgrade because you feel like "we are following the flow" isn't helpful either.
 
Well, 1 point: Marisa isn't known as a overly strong character in the grand scheme of thing. She really is just a ordinary magician (Relatively) and that fact have been showed time and time again. There's not much justification for her being able to pushed two planet than Eirin being able to make a black hole.

Other than that, I need to thing more for this.
 
The thing is that Suika did a similar feat casually, and Miko also did a similar level feat. Like you said, she is "relatively" normal.

Even that argument is wrong, as Marisa is known for pure power.
 
Andykhang said:
Well, 1 point: Marisa isn't known as a overly strong character in the grand scheme of thing. She really is just a ordinary magician (Relatively) and that fact have been showed time and time again. There's not much justification for her being able to pushed two planet than Eirin being able to make a black hole.
Other than that, I need to thing more for this.
How about resolving the incidents that constantly happen and the fact that she was actually acknowledged by Yorihime? Or that she had a chance against Doremy spellcard rules otherwise? Don't hate the thief

And what Saikou and Matt (with the amazing ava) said
 
I don't particulary care about what you do with the franchise (I think I mentioned before more or less), but maybe let me throw in two things:

1. If you read at the way that is written you will notice that the people talking about that there are no experts at the field, but are outright guessing (the fact that the question of hell even existing due to being that large comes up should point to that). Considering that the two of them in particular know next to nothing about Gensokyo, information from them is highly questionable.

2. Zun: "An infinite number of worlds can be made. All those mysterious aspects can be considered Hecatia's "Otherworlds"."

Interviewer: "Doesn't that make the scope of these "Otherworlds" extremely large?"

Zun: "When compared to the Earth, I don't think it's that large. Even hermits can make these Otherworlds easily (* referring to Senkai)."


Reminder that this interview exists.


Do with that information what you want.

That's all you get from my side.
 
You didn't made it clear (only made it seem like you weren't going to do it on that thread) but I did see it.

Know to nothing about Gensokyo? Considering Maribel is learning everytime..... And it's quite a consistent feat overall.

And even with that, hermits can casually/easily make those Otherworlds. Does it specifically refer to Senkai however? Do take in mind there's still a moon there, and it might just mean smaller planet. And I think it might just be referring to the Otherworlds directly since Zun thinks Infinite Planets would be far too poweful.

Although I am surprised Catfish gets this upgrade.
 
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