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Yes, ANOTHER Touhou thread. We have never enough Touhou.
So, this is mostly LoLk stuff, and stuff related to the Dream World.
Let's just say 2 things about the Dream World before we all start:
1. It is an actual physical place, not just a dream place. It's just possible to visit while dreaming. Doremy even mentions that the protags are here with their physical body.
2. It seems to have only one Baku. Doremy is refered to as the "ruler" of the Dream World, and Reisen seems surprised to see someone this powerful here.
So, with that out of the way...
Doremy Sweet's job is both creating and destroying dreams. And as I've shown before, dreams are actual things, not just thought. But how "Big" is a dream? Well, it was mentioned she created a fake Lunar Capital, so likely at least Large City. But, we later see the whole moon in the Dream World, and she refers to it as the "Fake Lunar Capital", so it seems like it isn't just the city but the whole thing, so I'd be Moon level.
Buuuut, later, in the Extra Stage, we see the whole EARTH in there (And I will later show why I don't think it's the actual planet here). So Planet level.
Buuut, in the WHOLE stage, we see tons of stars. Again, I'll say later why I don't think those are just the real stars showing. If we consider everything in the Dream World would be a dream created by Doremy, it would be soldi 4-A.
Some may say this would be an Outlier, as she isn't a god tier, and even then, the god tiers doesn't possess any feats beyond 4-C.
Well..it seems like the 4-C feats the gods tier scales to COULD be MSS too. They all scales from Houryi, who was stated to have shot down the sun. However, the translation of the feat on Hecatia's profile says "Suns", which implies many of them. It is also consistant with the original Myths, in which Houryi shoots down multiple Suns.
Also, Houriy seems to have busted both a sun near the Moon and one near hell. It certainly wouldn't be the same one, and the actual sun is still here, yet more proofs that he most likely busted multiple Suns.
Yukari also possess a possible MSS feats ("Creating" constellations) but it's a very big maybe.
Now, for the speed.
In the very same stage, where there is multiple stars, the protagonist moves fast enough that the stars are actually moving.
Now, some may say they were moving from Earth to Moon, no way they would actually move past stars, or that the moon itself didn't move at all.
Well, I'd say the protags moved from Earth to Moon via a Alternate Dimension, not the actual distance. Traveling to the Moon normally isn't possible, so they had to take the path to the dream world. About the moon not moving...It IS a dream world, and it doesn't seems like it works normally (The stars behind the moon wouldn't be moving at all either if the moon isn't).
Also, the moon and earth not moving are also why I think those are creations, and not the actual things.
As why are the stars creations too? The protag were near a lake, and didn't go into outer space. They were directly teleported to the Dream World. Not only that, but it seems like the Protags' "Dreams" was to go to the Lunar Capital, or for Sanae, flying into space, explaining why stars were created in the Dream World.
So, it would be MFTL+. Scales to the protag and everyone who scales from them.
Why isn't it an Outlier? The Lightspeed thing is casual, being from a fodder. I'd say it's time to have speed feats for the Top tiers.
Now, Infinite Speed.
It may seems very weird to have Infinite Speed feats in a mostly Relat verse, but they only apply to a character using an ability.
There is Reimu, who floats out of reality. It includes space-time, as both Yukari and Sakuya can't access her during the thing (Both control Space-Time on a Multi-Universe level). This is supported by the fact that Reimu's Fantasy Nature seems like Teleportation to other. During it's duration she thus should be Infinite in speed, but only during her usge of it. Since everyone seeing it from inside reality sees it instantly.
Kaguya should also possess Infinite Speed via using her powers. It was stated she can somehow experience the "instants" of time, wheras most beings can't. Yorihime stated that the reasons why we see time flowing is because we can't percieve instants, thus, if we did, time would seems stopped to us. Only applies to reactions.
Now, for Planet level Marisa.
This was seen as an Outlier for quite some time for the following reasons:
1. She posses lower feats.
2. Top tiers such as Yukari and Suika are only Moon.
3. It would make her way too close to the God tiers in power.
Well, I would answer to this...
1. All of said feats are casual, being from Spell Cards.
2. Form another thread, no they aren't. They now solely scales from lower tiers. Even then, said feat was ALSO done casually.
3. No longer the case, with most God tiers being MSS.
Now the feats itself is pretty vague, but consider the following: She moved TWO large planets, in a single attack. To do this with a single attack (Considering the huge distance), it must require a lot of energy. Even just asusming she matched Jupiter's orbital velocity, it still would be Large Planet.
TL;DR, List of Changes:
All the LoLK cast (Including playable characters),Yukari, Suika, Yuugi, Shiki, Aya, Youmu, Kaguya, Eirin, Mokou, All Religous Leaders, Remilia, Utsuho, Flandre, Watatsukis: Massively FTL+
Reimu and Kaguya: Infninite Speed using their abilities
Marisa, Reimu, Yukari, Suika, Yuugi, Utsuho, likely Flandre, Clownpiece, likely Eirin: Large Planet level
Doremy, Sagume, Junko, Hecatia, Watatsukis, possibly Eirin, possibly Yukari, possibly Suika, possibly Yuugi: Multi-Solar System.
Now of course this is some huge changes, hence why I made this thread. Also yeah I know I made 4 upgrades inside a single thread, but I didn't want to create even more Touhou threads. Also, the first two and the last one are quite related anyway so...
So, this is mostly LoLk stuff, and stuff related to the Dream World.
Let's just say 2 things about the Dream World before we all start:
1. It is an actual physical place, not just a dream place. It's just possible to visit while dreaming. Doremy even mentions that the protags are here with their physical body.
2. It seems to have only one Baku. Doremy is refered to as the "ruler" of the Dream World, and Reisen seems surprised to see someone this powerful here.
So, with that out of the way...
Doremy Sweet's job is both creating and destroying dreams. And as I've shown before, dreams are actual things, not just thought. But how "Big" is a dream? Well, it was mentioned she created a fake Lunar Capital, so likely at least Large City. But, we later see the whole moon in the Dream World, and she refers to it as the "Fake Lunar Capital", so it seems like it isn't just the city but the whole thing, so I'd be Moon level.
Buuuut, later, in the Extra Stage, we see the whole EARTH in there (And I will later show why I don't think it's the actual planet here). So Planet level.
Buuut, in the WHOLE stage, we see tons of stars. Again, I'll say later why I don't think those are just the real stars showing. If we consider everything in the Dream World would be a dream created by Doremy, it would be soldi 4-A.
Some may say this would be an Outlier, as she isn't a god tier, and even then, the god tiers doesn't possess any feats beyond 4-C.
Well..it seems like the 4-C feats the gods tier scales to COULD be MSS too. They all scales from Houryi, who was stated to have shot down the sun. However, the translation of the feat on Hecatia's profile says "Suns", which implies many of them. It is also consistant with the original Myths, in which Houryi shoots down multiple Suns.
Also, Houriy seems to have busted both a sun near the Moon and one near hell. It certainly wouldn't be the same one, and the actual sun is still here, yet more proofs that he most likely busted multiple Suns.
Yukari also possess a possible MSS feats ("Creating" constellations) but it's a very big maybe.
Now, for the speed.
In the very same stage, where there is multiple stars, the protagonist moves fast enough that the stars are actually moving.
Now, some may say they were moving from Earth to Moon, no way they would actually move past stars, or that the moon itself didn't move at all.
Well, I'd say the protags moved from Earth to Moon via a Alternate Dimension, not the actual distance. Traveling to the Moon normally isn't possible, so they had to take the path to the dream world. About the moon not moving...It IS a dream world, and it doesn't seems like it works normally (The stars behind the moon wouldn't be moving at all either if the moon isn't).
Also, the moon and earth not moving are also why I think those are creations, and not the actual things.
As why are the stars creations too? The protag were near a lake, and didn't go into outer space. They were directly teleported to the Dream World. Not only that, but it seems like the Protags' "Dreams" was to go to the Lunar Capital, or for Sanae, flying into space, explaining why stars were created in the Dream World.
So, it would be MFTL+. Scales to the protag and everyone who scales from them.
Why isn't it an Outlier? The Lightspeed thing is casual, being from a fodder. I'd say it's time to have speed feats for the Top tiers.
Now, Infinite Speed.
It may seems very weird to have Infinite Speed feats in a mostly Relat verse, but they only apply to a character using an ability.
There is Reimu, who floats out of reality. It includes space-time, as both Yukari and Sakuya can't access her during the thing (Both control Space-Time on a Multi-Universe level). This is supported by the fact that Reimu's Fantasy Nature seems like Teleportation to other. During it's duration she thus should be Infinite in speed, but only during her usge of it. Since everyone seeing it from inside reality sees it instantly.
Kaguya should also possess Infinite Speed via using her powers. It was stated she can somehow experience the "instants" of time, wheras most beings can't. Yorihime stated that the reasons why we see time flowing is because we can't percieve instants, thus, if we did, time would seems stopped to us. Only applies to reactions.
Now, for Planet level Marisa.
This was seen as an Outlier for quite some time for the following reasons:
1. She posses lower feats.
2. Top tiers such as Yukari and Suika are only Moon.
3. It would make her way too close to the God tiers in power.
Well, I would answer to this...
1. All of said feats are casual, being from Spell Cards.
2. Form another thread, no they aren't. They now solely scales from lower tiers. Even then, said feat was ALSO done casually.
3. No longer the case, with most God tiers being MSS.
Now the feats itself is pretty vague, but consider the following: She moved TWO large planets, in a single attack. To do this with a single attack (Considering the huge distance), it must require a lot of energy. Even just asusming she matched Jupiter's orbital velocity, it still would be Large Planet.
TL;DR, List of Changes:
All the LoLK cast (Including playable characters),Yukari, Suika, Yuugi, Shiki, Aya, Youmu, Kaguya, Eirin, Mokou, All Religous Leaders, Remilia, Utsuho, Flandre, Watatsukis: Massively FTL+
Reimu and Kaguya: Infninite Speed using their abilities
Marisa, Reimu, Yukari, Suika, Yuugi, Utsuho, likely Flandre, Clownpiece, likely Eirin: Large Planet level
Doremy, Sagume, Junko, Hecatia, Watatsukis, possibly Eirin, possibly Yukari, possibly Suika, possibly Yuugi: Multi-Solar System.
Now of course this is some huge changes, hence why I made this thread. Also yeah I know I made 4 upgrades inside a single thread, but I didn't want to create even more Touhou threads. Also, the first two and the last one are quite related anyway so...
