Touhou: Into the Multiverse

[Mobi2]

Hmm. Well, what I meant to ask was the confusement regarding the 'Singular/Mixed Object' being either Infinite enough

Yeah but apparently one of her Hell covers all Otherworlds at once. One Hell for Earth, one Hell for the Moon, and one Hell for Otherworlds in general.

"A mysterious god who governs the Hells of the moon, the Earth, and Otherworlds. She has a separate body in each of the three worlds, and can act independently with each of them."

-Hecatia's LoLK profile.

I'll be out of battery soon but looking back on LoLK it seems like ZUN was only talking about specific otherworlds (indicating that there is a size difference) because we know otherworld can just mean something that isn't the earth or the moon. The wording he uses is "these" when referring to the ones in hell.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Dang, sad for you man @OnsokunoSonic

Heheh

 

[Mobi2]

Didn't mean to quote nothingtodebatewith my bad goober moment lol.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I'll be out of battery soon but looking back on LoLK it seems like ZUN was only talking about specific otherworlds (indicating that there is a size difference) because we know otherworld can just mean something that isn't the earth or the moon. The wording he uses is "these" when referring to the ones in hell.

Again, there can't be Otherworlds inside of Hell. I think those refer to either more Hells or Otherworlds connected to Hell.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Heheh, this is interesting, let's have a Danmaku duel, shall we?

I'm not a math person but fairly sure you need a lot more proof than that. Even if that were true, it would only mean the multiverse itself is 11-D. Certainly not individual branes worlds.

Let's skip this part then

Utterly braindead. The Dream World is an Otherworld. It's a Brane World. It's just a 4-D space, like Gensokyo, Hell or whatever are. It is absolutely not a world that transcends the real world. The scan about it affecting the real world absolutely does not prove anything. The Dream World affects the real world indirectly, like through the effects of nightmare. It does not transcend it.

What's stopping an Otherworld being a world that's beyond the physical layer? It's literally called a world beyond. Though yes it depend context, the Dream World has context it exists on a higher plane of reality, heck, it even show that other Otherworld are only certain location on the Dream World you're assuming every Otherworld is the same, when it's clear that it depend on context.

Primordial Shiz

They created the world, creating a 10D concept is still 10D. Not to mention they predate 10D itself, because the concept of 10D doesn't exist untill they created it.

Yukari etc.

Should be self explanatory.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Again, there can't be Otherworlds inside of Hell. I think those refer to either more Hells or Otherworlds connected to Hell.

Well...why not?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"Why can't Otherworlds transcend others?"

Otherworlds are branes. They're one, very specifically defined thing. They can vary in size, sure, but if you believe String Theory applies anywhere near seriously to Touhou, you cannot just have one Brane transcends the others like that. They're very specifically 3 dimensional.

Being called "world beyond" is literally meaningless. You guys keep searching for buzzword to make things higher tier without thinking about it. "Beyond" can mean many more things than "literally completely transcends something".

You also seem to forget that the Dream World is physical. Sure its content is dictated by the mental state of people, but the matter inside it is physical. You can get hurt if you enter there physically. Dream World people that escape work just like any other. It's not some weird transcendent mental plane. It's purely a physical place affected by the dreams of people on Earth.

"They created the concept of 10-D" has never been stated. All we know is that Yukari could manipulate the boundary between 2D and 3D. But applying that to 11-D is applying the scope of this ability to a level far higher than ever stated or shown. Them dealing with lower-dimensional gaps doesn't mean they had to deal with the higher dimensional gaps.

And like I said, even if that were true, Yukari being Tier 1 off one feat is an outlier. Scaling the entire lower Lunarian pantheon and the higher tiers of Gensokyo to one feat, when everything else hangs around High 3-A and Low 2-C is silly.

Well...why not?

Because that's not how it works. Otherworlds are branes. They're mini-universes. You can't have several space-time continuums physically inside another.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Because that's not how it works. Otherworlds are branes. They're mini-universes. You can't have several space-time continuums physically inside another.

On what account? You can if the verse generally does this.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

On what account? You can if the verse generally does this.

If the verse does this then it's not following String Theory.
Then that means there is literally no reason for this entire thread to exist.

Mind you, higher dimensions are never mentioned once in the entire series to my knowledge. This entire thread hinges on "Touhou follows Brane Cosmology pretty accurately. So it must mean 11D stuff exists in the verse since it exists in Brane Cosmology".

If you are going to willingly ignore how the theory work, then there are no reasons to assume 11-D stuff exists. This entire thread is utterly pointless.


Even ignoring that, Otherworlds are still pretty strictly defined. So it wouldn't make sense for one of them to be able to contain more of the same thing it is. And nothing indicates Hell has many Otherworlds inside of it anyway. It's just a weird interpretation.

 

[Greatsage13th]

If the verse does this then it's not following String Theory.
Then that means there is literally no reason for this entire thread to exist.

Mind you, higher dimensions are never mentioned once in the entire series to my knowledge. This entire thread hinges on "Touhou follows Brane Cosmology pretty accurately. So it must mean 11D stuff exists in the verse since it exists in Brane Cosmology".

If you are going to willingly ignore how the theory work, then there are no reasons to assume 11-D stuff exists. This entire thread is utterly pointless.


Even ignoring that, Otherworlds are still pretty strictly defined. So it wouldn't make sense for one of them to be able to contain more of the same thing it is. And nothing indicates Hell has many Otherworlds inside of it anyway. It's just a weird interpretation.

I see.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

"Why can't Otherworlds transcend others?"

Otherworlds are branes. They're one, very specifically defined thing. They can vary in size, sure, but if you believe String Theory applies anywhere near seriously to Touhou, you cannot just have one Brane transcends the others like that. They're very specifically 3 dimensional.

Bro tag me.

Being called "world beyond" is literally meaningless. You guys keep searching for buzzword to make things higher tier without thinking about it. "Beyond" can mean many more things than "literally completely transcends something".

It has context supporting it, literally exist on a higher layer than the space time of the physical layer. You're ignoring that part, for some reason.

You also seem to forget that the Dream World is physical. Sure its content is dictated by the mental state of people, but the matter inside it is physical. You can get hurt if you enter there physically. Dream World people that escape work just like any other. It's not some weird transcendent mental plane. It's purely a physical place affected by the dreams of people on Earth.

And?

"They created the concept of 10-D" has never been stated. All we know is that Yukari could manipulate the boundary between 2D and 3D. But applying that to 11-D is applying the scope of this ability to a level far higher than ever stated or shown. Them dealing with lower-dimensional gaps doesn't mean they had to deal with the higher dimensional gaps.

It's...logic.

And like I said, even if that were true, Yukari being Tier 1 off one feat is an outlier. Scaling the entire lower Lunarian pantheon and the higher tiers of Gensokyo to one feat, when everything else hangs around High 3-A and Low 2-C is silly.

And what stops us from upscaling the Lunarian to the Gensokyo people.

Because that's not how it works. Otherworlds are branes. They're mini-universes. You can't have several space-time continuums physically inside another.

Why not? Especially when we're talking about Brane Cosmology when our universe is only a subset of the higher dimensional plane.

If the verse does this then it's not following String Theory.
Then that means there is literally no reason for this entire thread to exist.

You sound like you know something about String Theory. Try to explain.

Mind you, higher dimensions are never mentioned once in the entire series to my knowledge. This entire thread hinges on "Touhou follows Brane Cosmology pretty accurately. So it must mean 11D stuff exists in the verse since it exists in Brane Cosmology".

That higher dimension is the "river" that the Brane exist on.

Even ignoring that, Otherworlds are still pretty strictly defined. So it wouldn't make sense for one of them to be able to contain more of the same thing it is. And nothing indicates Hell has many Otherworlds inside of it anyway. It's just a weird interpretation.

Except the feats contradict what you said.

I still don't get your point, Saikou.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I'm ignoring that part because it's ******* bullshit. The "Mental layer" transcending the physical world is bullshit, when you lack actual evidence for it and just believe it because it says "layer". Like I said, you can be unaffected by the physical world without transcending it. That's the case for any mental powers or beings in any other verse. That's not transcendence.

The Dream World being mental is also bullshit like I said before. People can enter it. Walk in it. Interact with things. Things that come out of it can walk around and interact with people just like any other being. Acting like it's part of this mental layer unaffected by the physical world is blatantly false.

"What stops us from scaling the Lunarians to Yukari?"

That's not the damn point. The point is that Yukari being the only Tier 1 people among all of the characters around her level of power is an outlier. Doremy, Clownpiece, Sagume, Okuu, Reimu, Marisa Suika, Kasen, Byakuren, etc. All those characters, who display Tier 2 feats at most, should not all become Tier 1 because of Yukari's feat.

"It's... logic."

It's not. Your idea of a creator god creating the entire fabric of reality from pure nothingness is not applicable here. Because that's not what happened here. Especially because the statements of the Primordial Gods creating the world come from Rinnosuke. Who has no ******* idea about any of the Tier 1 stuff.

"Why not? Especially when we're talking about Brane Cosmology when our universe is only a subset of the higher dimensional plane."

Hell is not a higher dimensional plane. It's a physical location like any other Otherworld. People can exist in it and interact with it no problem. It cannot contain other Branes. And assuming that Otherworlds, which are stated to all be the same thing, would go from a regular Branes to higher dimensional bulks is dumb.

"You sound like you know something about String Theory. Try to explain."

I don't know String Theory any more than a curious layman looking stuff up. Which seems to be more than you. tl;dr all Otherworlds are branes. Branes are things that contain our 3-D dimensional universe. And they exist in a higher-dimensional "bulk", which is what the Tier 1 stuff would be. If you try to claim any fancy shit like branes containing other branes or 11-D branes, then you lose anything even resembling the original theory. So assuming stuff out of the original theory is bullshit.

"Except the feats contradict what you said."

It doesn't. This person was assuming that this is what happens. I'm saying that this doesn't make any sort of sense. So the assumption is wrong.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

bullshit. The "Mental layer" transcending the physical world is bullshit, when you lack actual evidence for it and just believe it because it says "layer". Like I said, you can be unaffected by the physical world without transcending it. That's the case for any mental powers or beings in any other verse. That's not transcendence

The point is not that. The point is that the Mental Layer contain enough space to make infinite sized Netherworld as a subset, combine that with Brane theory and you got a higher dimension.

The Dream World being mental is also bullshit like I said before. People can enter it. Walk in it. Interact with things. Things that come out of it can walk around and interact with people just like any other being. Acting like it's part of this mental layer unaffected by the physical world is blatantly false.

We do not assume the layer to be unaffected by anything on the lower layer, where did you get that shit.

It's not. Your idea of a creator god creating the entire fabric of reality from pure nothingness is not applicable here. Because that's not what happened here. Especially because the statements of the Primordial Gods creating the world come from Rinnosuke. Who has no ******* idea about any of the Tier 1 stuff.

Then what happened? Also Rinnosuke? He can sees concept so uh...

Hell is not a higher dimensional plane. It's a physical location like any other Otherworld. People can exist in it and interact with it no problem. It cannot contain other Branes. And assuming that Otherworlds, which are stated to all be the same thing, would go from a regular Branes to higher dimensional bulks is dumb.

Who the hell, said Hell is a higher dimensional place holy moly. Again, you're ignoring context. Otherworld are worlds other than us, it doesn't mean it's can't be a higher world. Again, The Brane (Dream World) has shown it can contain infinite sized Netherworld, as a finite portion of itself, literally a higher dimensional stuff.

It doesn't. This person was assuming that this is what happens. I'm saying that this doesn't make any sort of sense. So the assumption is wrong.

Then what actually happened, Saikou? Do you have any idea on what actually happened? Mister SaiZUN.

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

Alright, I've got a response from Mokou regarding what points Saikou has been arguing against. As usual, I'm just passing along the message. Here ya go:



"The Dream World having physical presence is universally agreed upon. I don't know why you're even bringing that up.


Since you seem fixated on the interpretation that the Dream World "transcends" the real world, let's drop all mentions of "transcendence" entirely. The verse would still be H1-C, for reasons I'll explain.



All this nonsense about whether or not string + brane theory is valid for 10-D or higher is moot; Ultima agrees that branes are good for higher dimensions, our tiering system FAQ also mentions this, and we've discussed this topic within the thread multiple times, with near universal agreement that the cosmology is at least H1-C. With that out of the way, we can in fact say that reality in Touhou is 10-D. The Dream World, then, is 10-D by extension; it's been shown to recreate reality (the outside world, the Netherworld, Hell, Gensokyo, I could go on), and is very explicitly stated to be the opposite side of the coin that is the real world. All of this points towards the Dream World acting as a sort of 'mirror' to the real world; whatever exists within reality, exists to the same extent in the Dream World, including the 10-dimensional structure of reality.



This also scales to ordinary dreams, as we have numerous statements of them being equivalent to reality. Dreams = Reality = 10-D, this isn't that hard to follow. And of course, Doremy scales by virtue of it being her ******* job to create and destroy dreams. There's no reason to put dreams any lower than whatever tier we accept the cosmology as; if they were superior or inferior to reality in any way, shape, or form, there wouldn't be so many statements saying that dreams and reality are the same.



I'm also not sold on this being an outlier; Doremy's dream creation and destruction is a core component of her character, we can't just ignore it. Yukari also has a dream creation feat, and since this attack and Doremy's dream-based attacks are considered "safe" enough for spell card duels, there is no reason they wouldn't scale. And of course, the primordial god stuff, which Yukari and Reimu scale to with hax.



Overall that's 3 feats, one of which is extremely casual and very commonly performed by a single character that other high tiers upscale from. Now, that doesn't necessarily make it more consistent than H3-A/L2-C, but it is consistent enough to not be considered an outlier.



Even ignoring all mentions of dimensional superiority, H1-C is both consistent and explicit.

Onto the stuff from your latest post:

As stated before, Yukari is not the only one with a tier 1 feat. And even then, why would Yukari being the only one with a tier 1 feat change anything? Most high tiers have no notable feats of their own, they just scale to the handful of universal feats out there, and we can do the same with tier 1. Lunarians upscale from Yukari, the other sages scale to her, and Mokou’s durability downscales from her. This entire argument is reliant on ignoring the existence of powerscaling.

Rinnosuke not knowing the full extent of reality is completely irrelevant; he knows that the gods created reality, and then we have a separate source saying that reality is 10-D. Nothing is contradicted here; it's just two separate sources painting a broader picture of what the gods are fully capable of.

I don’t think anybody was arguing for Hell being higher dimensional. It isn’t (at least I’m pretty sure it’s not), and not particularly relevant to the feats and scaling on the table IMO, so let’s just drop it.

First off, please don’t insult Onsokuno, I disagree with them on shit too but I don’t claim I know more than them. Also, if you admit you don’t know more about string theory/higher dimensional BS than an average person, maybe wait for more knowledgeable staff to come along (and two of them have already agreed to the thread, mind you).

Hell containing more Otherworlds is also irrelevant. Let’s try to keep things focused on the Dream World, primordial gods, and waiting for input from Ultima/Elizhaa/Yuri"

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Alright, I've got a response from Mokou

Actually, why is this supposed to be acceptable? If a user is threadbanned and they just get someone else to respond for them, then that threadban doesn't matter in the first place.

Simply put, cut it out.

 

[Moritzva]

@Saikou_The_Lewd_King, I'm going to ask you to relax. I'm all for arguing your point, but repeatedly calling opposing points "bullshit" is rude at best and starting trouble at worse.

Obviously this goes for all parties, though I'm directing this at Saikou as he has been the most brash with his insults so far. Please, maintain a civil debate.

@JustSomeWeirdo I believe we actually allow people to do that.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Actually, why is this supposed to be acceptable? If a user is threadbanned and they just get someone else to respond for them, then that threadban doesn't matter in the first place.

Simply put, cut it out.

?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

@JustSomeWeirdo I believe we actually allow people to do that.

Well, that's apparent to me now, but it really shouldn't be allowed if a user is strictly not allowed to participate in a certain topic for them to just.... tell someone else exactly what to say, really goes against the point of banning and threadbanning in the first place

 

[Moritzva]

Well, that's apparent to me now, but it really shouldn't be allowed if a user is strictly not allowed to participate in a certain topic for them to just.... tell someone else exactly what to say, really goes against the point of banning and threadbanning in the first place

I agree with this to a partial extent but this probably isn't the thread to discuss it, and given previous threads have already existed on the matter, I am not sure where you should take it. Maybe Discord? Regardless, we shouldn't disturb this thread further.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

If the verse does this then it's not following String Theory.
Then that means there is literally no reason for this entire thread to exist.

Mind you, higher dimensions are never mentioned once in the entire series to my knowledge. This entire thread hinges on "Touhou follows Brane Cosmology pretty accurately. So it must mean 11D stuff exists in the verse since it exists in Brane Cosmology".

Question

Since Brane + String theory cosmology is enough to warrant a H1-C tier, does this mean that said verse has to exactly be like the actual theories? You claim Touhou's definition of Branes and string theory is different from the irl theory- whats the proof for this? We clearly see mention of strings and branes right in the OP so... I don't see what makes this not String and brane cosmology.

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

Well, that's apparent to me now, but it really shouldn't be allowed if a user is strictly not allowed to participate in a certain topic for them to just.... tell someone else exactly what to say, really goes against the point of banning and threadbanning in the first place

In Mokou's defense, it was mostly to prevent her from butting heads with another user who frequently debated in Touhou threads since she's otherwise very helpful.

But let's not stray off topic too far now. It seems the matter has been handled.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The Mental layer is not a space or a place. It doesn't contain the Netherworld. Even if it did, it still wouldn't be higher dimensional. Brane Theory adds nothing to this.

"We do not assume the layer to be unaffected by anything on the lower layer, where did you get that shit."

Then why do you claim it's higher dimensional compared to the physical world.

Then what happened? Also Rinnosuke? He can sees concept so uh...

The fact that you even have to ask what the feat is makes me question why you're even here. The world used to be a big mix of shapeless and concept-less things. The gods split this big mix into the separate elements. Everything existed from the start. They just split the world into separate concepts so that what we see today can exist. It absolutely does not have to involve the 11 dimensional bulk surrounding the Otherworlds.

Also Rinnosuke being able to tell the name and purpose of an object absolutely does not mean he magically knows all about the nature of reality and what the gods scale to. What are you on.

Who the hell, said Hell is a higher dimensional place holy moly. Again, you're ignoring context. Otherworld are worlds other than us, it doesn't mean it's can't be a higher world. Again, The Brane (Dream World) has shown it can contain infinite sized Netherworld, as a finite portion of itself, literally a higher dimensional stuff.

My dude. You say that Hell having multiple Otherworlds inside of it is fine because Brane Theory has higher planes. Yet you say Hell isn't one? That's not how it works. Either it's a Brane or it's a Bulk. It can't be an in-between.

Also Otherworlds are not just any weird pocket dimension. They're strictly defined as Branes. So Hell is a Brane. Not some weird higher dimensional space.

And the Dream World having infinite locations inside it doesn't make it higher-dimensional. I don't know where you got that but that's not how it works.

Then what actually happened, Saikou? Do you have any idea on what actually happened? Mister SaiZUN.

I already talked about this. Either those worlds are more Otherworlds linked to Hell, or more Hells. There is nothing that indicates that Otherworlds exists in Hell in the first place. It's all just conjecture.

Question

Since Brane + String theory cosmology is enough to warrant a H1-C tier, does this mean that said verse has to exactly be like the actual theories? You claim Touhou's definition of Branes and string theory is different from the irl theory- whats the proof for this? We clearly see mention of strings and branes right in the OP so... I don't see what makes this not String and brane cosmology.

Brane Cosmology being even worthy of High 1-C is contentious. But like I said that's not my area of expertise so, not my place to argue.

But regardless. The thing that's happening here is that people sees that the Touhou verse seems to follow Brane Cosmology. Then they assume the entire theory applies to the verse. Which would work fine if Touhou actually followed the theory. But if the verse disregards various parts of the Cosmology (like by having Branes act in different ways than they do irl), then the verse only partially follows Brane Cosmology. So assuming the 11 dimensions exist has no real basis.

Simply mentioning elements of a theory in a verse doesn't mean the entire theory is applicable here. If anything is off, then the theory is demonstrably not entirely true here. So you cannot assume any other unmentioned element is true.

 

[Promestein]

We don't and shouldn't just slap Tier 1 onto any setting that happens to mention String theory and also Branes. Context is important here. It doesn't matter what Ultima says in a general context, or what the tiering system may point to as a general rule - we have to look at things case-by-case, and I wouldn't say Touhou qualifies - see Saikou's own points. Your arguments revolve pretty much entirely around saying 'x is Tier 1, Ultima says so', but Ultima wasn't talking about Touhou, were they? Ultima doesn't know about Touhou's cosmology and specifics, do they? Then the statement is general and shouldn't be treated as undefeatable gospel.

 

[Moritzva]

Saikou, again, tone it down.

Also, yeah, never really understood where the idea of taking the word of a teenager's opinion on high numbers turned into the basis for ramping multiple verses up to tier 1.

 

[Promestein]

Ultima's statement wasn't even absolute, for the record, they just said that Brane cosmology often is Tier 1, which is super vague.

Also, regardless of past precedent we've been cracking down more on ban circumvention as such, so let's avoid that. Okay?

 

[KingPin0422]

I retract my agreement FRA

 

[deonment]

im just gonna pop in, say something, and gtfo, while branes can be proof for being higher dimensions, they do not automatically grant higher d stuff, since you don't see the cookie clicker supporters upgrading the verse to high 1-C because of mentions of branes and string theory, also GL should not be used as an example here given that it has mountains of evidence about information about brane stuff and string theory when compared to touhou while also explicitly mentioning the 10th and 11th branes,

 

[Pixy]

Well I'm fine with L1-C and 1-C if High 1-C is too vague like Einel said

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Well alright then. I guess Prom and Saikou make sense, I'll be the bigger person and admit when I'm wrong.

But still, like what Pixy said, can this still be salvaged into a 5D/L1-C tier? I'd very much still love a Touhou buff lmao

 

[Jasonsith]

I do not see the border thing hierarchical enough to warrant a 5D or above.

Just having a border of each "world" does not make it a hierarchical difference. Oh my it may not even mean a different universe.

 

[Pixy]

I do not see the border thing hierarchical enough to warrant a 5D or above.

Just having a border of each "world" does not make it a hierarchical difference. Oh my it may not even mean a different universe.

here what Einel explain about L1-C - 1-C stuff Also Hi didn't expect Death battle guy will come here Nice to meet you

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

What's the reasoning for Low 1-C though?

The Dream World is just a Low 2-C construct with replicas of High 3-A places inside it. The Mental and Probability layers are not inherently higher tier. The Boundary stuff only means they created a 2-B multiverse, which would end up at Low 2-C since it was done over time and across millions of different characters.

And like I said, Brane World cosmology doesn't mean much here. Individual Otherworlds are just Low 2-C at best and the "Bulk" is not referred to at all in the entire verse.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Can we stop with the disagree train, what is going on.

Are we gonna ignore that Dream World contain infinite sized Netherworld as a finite size of it?

"Bulk" is not referred to at all in the entire verse

"Perhaps a brane is something like a dyed object exposed to the flow of a river." -Dr Latency Freak Report

I think you forgot that the Brane is refered to as object floating in a river, which in this case, is the bulk.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Can we stop with the disagree train, what is going on.

Are we gonna ignore that Dream World contain infinite sized Netherworld as a finite size of it?




I think you forgot that the Brane is refered to as object floating in a river, which in this case, is the bulk.

"As a finite size of it" isn't really supported? Like, you'd need to prove that the Dream World is infinite, yet that the Netherworld is a finite part of this infinite. Afaik that's what required for anything like that to be higher dimensional. And that's not really the case. We just know the Dream World can contain an infinite structure and has room to spare. But that just means the Dream World is infinite.

Also, the river being the "bulk" is... very arguable. It seems to me just like a poetic metaphor from Maribel. But even if it was referring to the bulk, we still don't really know what it is, what it is properties are, etc. And it's never mentioned in any lore talking about the Primordial Gods or Yukari. So it's still not usable.

 

[Vietthai96]

After work i and re-read the entire OP, i'm not seeing any actual evidences for the tier.
While the verse did mention something like superstring theory which used either 10 to 11d universe to work, i saw nothing more from that, no specific on the theory itself, it just slap a line: super unified theory and brane, strings. That all nothing more. They is no continuous, actual explaination on how the cosmology work, just a bunch of discreted paragraph with different meaning that not related to those theories

After that the entire argument of OP was his own personal interpretation by cherrypicking words like: world beyond, layer, conceptually separated, can be perceived, etc....and interpreted them working like brane cosmology and string theory.

After that he link to some general wiki about the theory of string and brane for his argument which i felt flat because it is just real life cosmolgy

The last argument was using other verse which used similar theory for its cosmology. This also fell flat on itself as i read those verse which used string theory and they super specified on how the string theory work in the verse

Thus my final conclusion is, disagree with the upgrade

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Well damn.

This went downhill fast.

So basically, from what everyone else is saying...

String and branes are just barely mentioned, and its vague on how they work and we don't know how these higher worlds function + 10th and 11th brane and explicit higher dimensions are not mentioned + the string and brane theories and cosmologies mentioned in Touhou don't actually match the irl definition of the theories + there is no real qualitative superiority or infinitely superior transcendence for the worlds and branes in Touhou

These are your counterarguments. Is that right, Saikou, Prom and Viet?

 

[Vietthai96]

Yes, and also real life string theory and brane also hardly qualified for a tier 1 cosmology. And they are just fking mathematical fictions which could change fast in the future

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Damnnnnn it I wanna debate against this but I can't think of anything

Imma just wait and hope Onsokuno, Doge, Overlord, Shmooply and Mokou can save the day because I am wayyyyy over my head here unfortunately

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well damn.

This went downhill fast.

So basically, from what everyone else is saying...

String and branes are just barely mentioned, and its vague on how they work and we don't know how these higher worlds function + 10th and 11th brane and explicit higher dimensions are not mentioned + the string and brane theories and cosmologies mentioned in Touhou don't actually match the irl definition of the theories + there is no real qualitative superiority or infinitely superior transcendence for the worlds and branes in Touhou

These are your counterarguments. Is that right, Saikou, Prom and Viet?

More or less.

Strings and Branes are things theorized to exist. The idea that they exist is Brane Cosmology. It's a theory about the nature of reality.

A fictional verse that includes those elements might follow the actual Brane Cosmology theory. But they also might not. By themselves those things don't have to involve 11 dimensions in a fictional setting that does what it wants.

If Touhou includes those elements, but there is no mention of higher dimensions, then it's rather sketchy to assume they exist. Even more so if the game contradicts what Brane Cosmology says in the first place. In which case we can say it doesn't follow the theory, it just has elements from it.

 

[Vietthai96]

Damnnnnn it I wanna debate against this but I can't think of anything

Imma just wait and hope Onsokuno, Doge, Overlord, Shmooply and Mokou can save the day because I am wayyyyy over my head here unfortunately

Well, i'm not blame you, cosmology is a pain itself, especially when it come to tier 1, even real life is just full of theories which can change anytime. And i understand why Touhou including string theory, it is a popular theory nowaday