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Touhou: Into the Multiverse

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Veloxt1r0kore said:
Only cosmonology that would be 1-B? Which characters that will be scaled to?
Click to expand...
Read the thread, man.
OnsokunoSonic said:
TL;DR
  • The Fabric of each Universe=10D
  • The Physical Layer=10D
  • The Dream World=11D
  • The Probability Layer=12D
  • Reimu and Yukari conceptual hax range upgraded to 1-B
  • Youkais mind range upgraded to H1-C
  • Primordials are now 1-B scaling to the cosmology
  • Fantasy Nature is 1-B because it's been stated that no one can beat her in Imperishable Night
  • H3-A and L2-C character got upgraded to H1-C
Click to expand...
There, at the TL;DR section
Veloxt1r0kore said:
Oh and before i forget, i'm more learned towards neutral for now
Click to expand...
You should read the replies, we've discussed a lot of things.
 
Exactly one staff member has provided input. Even if multiple experts support the upgrade, we can't apply it with just one thread moderator basically saying "sure, why not."

Anyway, with the quotes given the sources I asked for, I do lean more strongly towards favoring an upgrade. Regarding Einel's concerns about assuming that string theory + brane cosmology automatically equals 10-D by default: as I showed in my previous post, string theories require a minimum of six extra dimensions to make sense. Brane cosmology, while closely related to the subject of string theory, clearly does not have such a limitation, given that brane models with only one large extra dimension exist. I can understand the point of "well, fiction's principles frequently ignore how things would actually work in the real world," but I'm of the opinion that we should always require evidence of that being the case, and that just because some elements of real-life physics are ignored, that doesn't mean we can just dismiss all of it.
 
KingPin0422 said:
Anyway, with the quotes given the sources I asked for, I do lean more strongly towards favoring an upgrade. Regarding Einel's concerns about assuming that string theory + brane cosmology automatically equals 10-D by default: as I showed in my previous post, string theories require a minimum of six extra dimensions to make sense. Brane cosmology, while closely related to the subject of string theory, clearly does not have such a limitation, given that brane models with only one large extra dimension exist. I can understand the point of "well, fiction's principles frequently ignore how things would actually work in the real world," but I'm of the opinion that we should always require evidence of that being the case, and that just because some elements of real-life physics are ignored, that doesn't mean we can just dismiss all of it.
Click to expand...

I'm not a supporters nor do an oppositions for this verse. I'm fine with how someone may disagree with it. But scientific speaking, it's strict enough to differentiate what fiction does and what's not to reffencial subjects.

I actually understand how String Theory works as well. However, in the context of Brane Cosmology in Tohou, they don't say exactly that the Brane dimension requires another "dimension" to operate. On the contrary, they actually implicate the concept of Brane as the Multiverse. This is certainly different from the actual nature of the existing Brane Cosmology of ours.

The thing that makes them appropriate here is how the Otherworld becomes a Brane World whose existence should be higher than the ordinary one and they have a lot of uniformity that overall can be considered stable in the fifth dimension (based on references to the origins of this theory and Einstein's calculations).

Also, I remember about huge damn part about TTGL being Universe+ in this site because the justification for Brane Dimension in there need a detailed blog and it's actually mention that Anti Spiral dimensions were between 10-11D and it resides as a membrane. It's different that Tohou here.

Lemme make it clear, it's not wise to consider Tohou as H1C just because TTGL does by using same principle. Because they had a very different system of worlds and one of that strictly follow sci-fi that actually mentions exact dimension within it while the others is not.
 
I'm officially hate String theory

Anyway, because i'm on phone so it is a pain to read all, but did any thing prove that 10D is as 10D large super dimension, or it is just a compactified on quantum scale??

Also just being 10 or 11D is not enough if there is no clear superiority between each dimension or some form of special hierchy.

And no, using other verse that have similar kind of theoy in their cosmology is not argument
 
Vietthai96 said:
Also just being 10 or 11D is not enough if there is no clear superiority between each dimension or some form of special hierchy.
Click to expand...
The scans do mention that there are higher existences tho, and that also the beings within the "worlds beyond" are invisible to us, so like we can't interact with them. If I'm not mistaken, isn't the fact that lower dimensional beings not being able to perceive higher ones means its exactly higher dimensional? So there's clearly superiority here.

Also this is High 1-B, even. There's no mention of 11 or 10 dimensions or worlds- its explicitly countless worlds. So there are countless of these "worlds beyond", so it should be Infinite dimensional. Or just insanely high into 1-B. Note that there's zero mention of 10 or 11 dimensions- its only ever stated to be countless. So this is a massive buff, in all actuality.

6hpGqcr.png


Source: Dr. Latency's Freak Report
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
The scans do mention that there are higher existences tho, and that also the beings within the "worlds beyond" are invisible to us, so like we can't interact with them. If I'm not mistaken, isn't the fact that lower dimensional beings not being able to perceive higher ones means its exactly higher dimensional? So there's clearly superiority here.

Also this is High 1-B, even. There's no mention of 11 or 10 dimensions or worlds- its explicitly countless worlds. So there are countless of these "worlds beyond", so it should be Infinite dimensional. Or just insanely high into 1-B. Note that there's zero mention of 10 or 11 dimensions- its only ever stated to be countless. So this is a massive buff, in all actuality.

6hpGqcr.png


Source: Dr. Latency's Freak Report
Click to expand...
No bro, this is not correct, this post is derailing, please delete it.
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
The scans do mention that there are higher existences tho, and that also the beings within the "worlds beyond" are invisible to us, so like we can't interact with them. If I'm not mistaken, isn't the fact that lower dimensional beings not being able to perceive higher ones means its exactly higher dimensional? So there's clearly superiority here.

Also this is High 1-B, even. There's no mention of 11 or 10 dimensions or worlds- its explicitly countless worlds. So there are countless of these "worlds beyond", so it should be Infinite dimensional. Or just insanely high into 1-B. Note that there's zero mention of 10 or 11 dimensions- its only ever stated to be countless. So this is a massive buff, in all actuality.

6hpGqcr.png


Source: Dr. Latency's Freak Report
Click to expand...
I don't know about how accurate the translation is. But according to this version, no nothing mention it, being invisible doesn't mean superiority, same with the context of "the world beyond", no those two word in context is not mean for a superiority order, you just interpreted it that way
 
Well I won't delete it either because even if you ignore the Infinite D stuff (my bad yeah), I still sourced the whole "invisible" thing, which answered Viet's question.

Sorry though.
 
Vietthai96 said:
I don't know about how accurate the translation is. But according to this version, no nothing mention it, being invisible doesn't mean superiority, same with the context of "the world beyond", no those two word in context is not mean for a superiority order, you just interpreted it that way
Click to expand...
Aight gotcha.

So what would be needed for actual dimensional superiority then? Should the lower beings look "flat" to the higher ones? Infinitely transcending? What's the criteria here?
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
Well I won't delete it either because even if you ignore the Infinite D stuff (my bad yeah), I still sourced the whole "invisible" thing, which answered Viet's question.

Sorry though.
Click to expand...
Viethai question is already answered on the thread, so uh...you know what I'm hinting at here. You know what you should do.
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
Alright I said I was sorry already

Ignore that then, Viethai.

I don't get why you're so annoyed when I'm actually agreeing with the buff...
Click to expand...
I'm sorry dude. I just don't want people adding some stuff that isn't on the thread, or wording something wrong. This is an important CRT.
 
I agree with the basis of the thread, I'm sure the "fabric of each brane" will need to be discussed, I'm unsure if every single fabric should be 10-D since branes here should gather together and then culminate for the highest tier. But first a small point in order for why I think 10-D is valid is due to how the unified forces (Grand unified theory) DO support the existence of supersymmetry which in the study of string theory is said to use 6 extra dimensions. (Not only that, The Land of the backdoor itself is treated as an extensive dimension of the sort and is simply one otherworld.)

I'm not opposed to 5-D though.
However, let's wait for more staff.

In response to shiny:
High 1-B will come later!!!! Shhh!! Save that for another time.
 
Honestly the reason why TTGL is usually brought up is because the wikia has to have a standard and a "one size fits all" thing

After all, assume that for example, "My Cat Turned into an Ikemen and now he's dating my best friend" has an exact similar cosmology to TTGL, down to the words and lingo used. But if "My Cat Turned into an Ikemen and now he's dating my best friend"'s CRT for 11D gets rejected even though its proven to be 100% similar to TTGL, then obviously people will be suspicious about it, as there would be inconsistencies with how the wiki sees some verses- maybe even bias.

I know "whataboutism" is bad but like if both have extremely similar feats and cosmologies and lingo, then that should obviously be cause for an evaluation. Otherwise, it'd just reek of bias or double standard.

And no that long Cat light novel title is just a fictional example I made there's no verse like that

Anyways, that's just what I think, we can just wait for more evaluations. I'd prefer if all of the higher dimensional experts gave a say here after all. So that OP Touhou is definitively accepted by mods and admins alike, not just members.

I'll keep watching this thread for now and hope for some answers from the experts.
 
GreatIskandar14045 said:
Gurren Lagann is brought again, EVERYTIME, how can I be surprised? Toaru, Honkai, Transformers, Sonic, etc etc, and now this.

I'm not here for arguing but since @OnsokunoSonic mentioned me right here (and you're welcome) I'd say that I'm into High 1-C as a possibly/likely, if what Einel said is relevant (I'm not familiar with Touhou).

Gr0Fv5W.jpeg
Click to expand...
No I think the meme should be like this.
Any verse that wants to hit tier 1 but doesn't have reality fiction difference:
Gurren Lagann:

Well anyway, thanks for coming.
 
Greatsage13th said:
They need to look like a piece of fiction or infinitely smaller. Which in my opinion is still complete bollocks for this to be the standard.
Click to expand...
Huh... That's bollocks to me too. Just because its not infinitely smaller or fictional, doesn't make it any less viable I think. Like, I don't even think real life String Theory and Brane Theory work like the higher dimensions see the lower ones as infinitely smaller or fictional. Unless it does work like that and I'm just dumb rip
 
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