Touhou Gods Contradiction

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I'll try to be brief. Perhaps it is something missing from the profiles, but as they stand, the profiles for the Touhou Gods have basically all of them as Type 1 Abstracts, beings who exist and concepts and ideas, yet are also stated to precede the existence of conception. How does this work? If you erased the idea that they are, what happens to them?

It is stated they do not need concepts to exist, yet are the very concepts themselves. This seems contradictory, but I'm guessing that if it isn't then some explanation is missing. When their idea is erased, Do they just become nonexistent beings, or do they cease to be abstract, or something else?

I'm sure some Touhou experts can resolve this perceived contradiction.

 

[JBennett]

Keep in mind I'm a bit rusty when it comes to this so bare with me if it seems weird, I do remember that it came from Rinnosuke in one of this volumes but I'll have to find out which one though.

It's more like they existed before things were created, i.e. when the world had no physical destinction from one another, the 'formless void' as they called it. In Touhou a name gives the object meaning, a Rock is a Rock, Tree is a Tree, and Gods are no exception, so a God of a Mountain is one as such because they have that name and changing the name can change the meaning.

If they don't have a name then they don't have a physical form so they can't interact with the physical world. Gods are concidered as living Ideas rather then physical beings so they don't die when their name/ idea is lost, they just simply looses their physical precence in the world.

As I said it's been a while since I've read on the lore of Touhou so I'll need to refresh on it.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

So they would be incapacitated if their concept was lost?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

"Gods are concidered as living Ideas rather then physical beings so they don't die when their name/ idea is lost, they just simply looses their physical precence in the world."

Doesn't seem like it, but would kinda count as that unless they can regain it under their own power.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I see. Perhaps a note should be added so this can be better explained on all the profiles. Are there examples of Gods losing their idea or name only to give themselves another?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Confirmation with someone more up to date for the sake of security would be a good step first.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I agree. I sent Glass a message

 

[SleepyTBubble]

>Glass

>Not Saikou

Lol what?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

I recommend waiting for Saikou too. Saikou knows best

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

life has no meaning and death approaches


Anyway uh it's weird. It's never actually explained in-verse, as these two statements are from two completely different things. But the way I see it is that Gods don't neccessarily represent any specific concepts. They're just very primordial vague ideas.

Names meaning are concepts used to define things. They are used to define objects yeah, but also gods. A god with a name attached becomes that thing in a way. So calling a god a "God of the Stars" would grant them influence over the stars and shit. It gives them attributes, but also limits them to that single definition, as non-named gods are kinda vague beings that just takes the characteristics of whatever is around.

And we know that something lacking a name (concept) isn't incap, as Junko and Dragons both lack names yet work fine.


So in short, gods are weird abstract primordial ideas that don't necessarily represent concepts. Names defines the gods, but force them into a single aspect of themselves. Taking it away won't kill or incap the god but still affect how they might function.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

What if the ideas that they are was itself erased? Would that itself kill them?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

life has no meaning and death approaches

We are here for you man, lay off the donuts.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I guess? But those "idea" forms are beyond regular concept manip so the resistance they currently have works.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Saikou what if I tell you Arcangela has a Lobotomeme 2 sequel, would that make life meaningful again?

But yeah gonna return to the Kama Shion thread in a bit

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I guess? But those "idea" forms are beyond regular concept manip so the resistance they currently have works.

I see. Perhaps it should be said that the ideas of the god predate usual concepts or something. Actually, it sounds like you may have a case for Type 2 Concepts while named concepts are type 3