Tensura Revision : Part 3

[Jozaysmith?]

Part 1, Part 2

Conceptual Existence For spiritual lifeforms ​

Spiritual Lifeforms Abstract Existence should now be Conceptual Existence
Proof one-
Laws are abstract and they are also conceptual on Type 2 level since its "The world"

Abstract Existence (Type 1 - Laws - Spiritual Lifeforms consist of attributes of physical, natural and even abstract laws, such as the Ifrit which is the embodiment of the laws that govern the world[5] - Information (Type 2) - Spiritual Lifeforms can abandoned their physical bodies and exist only with their souls[5]. Souls are made up of information, which is a fundamental aspect of the world)​

And in like we mentioned in Rimuru conceptual destruction thread

Conceptual Destruction (Type 3; Capable of destroying Ifrit to a conceptual level, preventing him from ever coming back. Ifrit is a spiritual lifeforms who is the embodiment of the world laws)

Then what is Concept on a type 2 level

Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence.

Exactly how it was explained
Then true dragons are now
Source of the world

Abstract Existence (Type 1 - Concept (Type 2) - True Dragons are the Holy Will Of Nature and[15] the Source of the World.[4] They exist only as will, and have no attachment with their bodies,[1] as that is the result of the faith of those who live around them)

Should then be likely type 1 as they are also noted to be the Highest tier spiritual lifeforms As well
In conclusion
Spiritual lifeforms are embodiment of the laws governing reality they are attributes themselves as it was noted that Attributes are laws that govern reality
True drgaons should be conceptual existence on type 1 level
They are like their brother Veldanava who is a spiritual lifeform that existed before the world and they all serve as source for reality
As discussed before how Velzard is eternal world/fixation able to handle the concept of time and destruction, ruin etc

 

[MrTim]

Finally someone has created a CRT for CM

Agree

 

[CodeCCLL]

I don't think there's such thing as AE1 based on laws

There are many profiles that have this, especially chinese novels.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

There are many profiles that have this, especially chinese novels.

Either ways its conceptual
As i proposed on what attributes are

 

[Mizuki67]

Yeah i agree. spiritual lifeforms should be considered a conceptual existence and true dragon should be an independent concept.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

Agree pretty clear and simple to understand

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I think concept type 2 is fine but I'm not sure on type 1 at the moment.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

I think concept type 2 is fine but I'm not sure on type 1 at the moment.

Before there was the world there was True dragons
Nature itself each preceding idea of it
They are the source of the world in the sense nature itself won't be a thing without them

 

[Catpija]

I think concept type 2 is fine but I'm not sure on type 1 at the moment.

True Dragon, such as Veldanava is the highest level Spiritual Lifeform in which he also predates the world/reality, hence they are a concept independent from reality.

And then he met him.
The creator of the world. Its supreme master and most powerful presence.
Guy was making the most of these calm, peaceful days, but his senses were constantly sharpened. That’s why he knew. This figure before him was Veldanava the Star-King Dragon, the Creator. (Volume 16)

Other Spiritual Lifeform like Demon and Angel also have existed before the world is created.

He had been willed into life eons ago, before heaven and earth were created. It was a simple coincidence. When Veldanava the Creator built seven seraphim out of the great elemental spirit of light, that also gave birth to those associated with the shadows behind them. Those were the Devil Lords, the seven Primal Demons derived from the great elemental spirit of darkness—and he was the first, the king of the underworld, the core realm of darkness. (Volume 16, Epilogue)

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Before there was the world there was True dragons
Nature itself each preceding idea of it
They are the source of the world in the sense nature itself won't be a thing without them

I was going to ask for scans and references but the user below you covered it.

True Dragon, such as Veldanava is the highest level Spiritual Lifeform in which he also predates the world/reality, hence they are a concept independent from reality.



Other Spiritual Lifeform like Demon and Angel also have existed before the world is created.

Thank you.

I guess Type 1 is ok as well.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good.

 

[Neoxxi16]

I agree, but it would be good to have Elizhaa's opinion.

 

[Elizhaa]

OP is fine.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Aren't Spiritual Lifeform Physiology and Rimuru Tempest (Light Novel) the only pages affected by this thread?

 

[Mizuki67]

Aren't Spiritual Lifeform Physiology and Rimuru Tempest (Light Novel) the only pages affected by this thread?

Yeah ? I mean the true dragons profile doesn't exist yet and we are still working on veldora profile

 

[CodeCCLL]

In the explanations of type 1 concepts, we must include statements that they are independent of the reality they govern, otherwise there will be no difference between type 1 and type 2. The same goes for type 2 concepts, their current explanations are insufficient.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

In the explanations of type 1 concepts, we must include statements that they are independent of the reality they govern, otherwise there will be no difference between type 1 and type 2. The same goes for type 2 concepts, their current explanations are insufficient.

Shit, you're right
I will add the explanations Later today

 

[Tatsumi504]

Laws are abstract and they are also conceptual on Type 2 level since its "The world"

Laws are always abstract but that on its own isn't enough to claim they're also concepts, similarly, simply governing the world isn't enough to claim they're either. They need some kind of explanation that implies these laws are conceptual

And in like we mentioned in Rimuru conceptual destruction thread

Destroying something on a conceptual level doesn't make it a concept also can I get a scan/quote for this?

Exactly how it was explained
Then true dragons are now
Source of the world

As I've mentioned above, simplying governing the world isn't enough to claim it's a concept

Should then be likely type 1 as they are also noted to be the Highest tier spiritual lifeforms As well

And now here is the biggest problem, you're using true dragons being conceptual existences to imply all spiritual lifeforms are the same. You need statements, dialogues that imply they're the same

True drgaons should be conceptual existence on type 1 level
They are like their brother Veldanava who is a spiritual lifeform that existed before the world and they all serve as source for reality

Isn't Veldanava like the god of the verse? Existing before the world as a concept can very much be proof of type 1 but I find it hard to understand why all true dragons are equated to Veldanava.
Just to be sure, what exactly do the true dragons as a concept govern?

As discussed before how Velzard is eternal world/fixation able to handle the concept of time and destruction, ruin etc

From what I understand here, this is their ultimate skill not their own conceptual existences? Doesn't seem like Velzard is the literal concept of fixation

 

[Tatsumi504]

In the explanations of type 1 concepts, we must include statements that they are independent of the reality they govern, otherwise there will be no difference between type 1 and type 2. The same goes for type 2 concepts, their current explanations are insufficient.

Common misconception but reality refers to what the concept governs not all of reality

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Laws are always abstract but that on its own isn't enough to claim they're also concepts, similarly, simply governing the world isn't enough to claim they're either. They need some kind of explanation that implies these laws are conceptual

Didn't you read Attributes are the laws that govern every phenomenon of the world?

Destroying something on a conceptual level doesn't make it a concept also can I get a scan/quote for this?

I made the wrong wording i would correct it
It was stated to be his concept and not conceptual level

From what I understand here, this is their ultimate skill not their own conceptual existences? Doesn't seem like Velzard is the literal concept of fixation

This is for manip
And she is also literal fixation
We explained in past thread on how ultimate skills is "Them"

 

[Jozaysmith?]

if you read rimuru profile on why he got AE1 on demon slime key
Would let you know that all ultimate skill users is the ultimate skill itself

 

[CodeCCLL]

Common misconception but reality refers to what the concept governs not all of reality

"they are independent of the reality they govern" What are you talking about? I didn't mention the all reality.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Didn't you read Attributes are the laws that govern every phenomenon of the world?

No, I read that attributes were the laws that governed the principles of the world.
Principle

1. a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behaviour or for a chain of reasoning.
2. a general scientific theorem or law that has numerous special applications across a wide field.

I made the wrong wording i would correct it
It was stated to be his concept and not conceptual level

Umm it wouldn't really change much? We by default assuming all things to have concepts unless stated otherwise thus ifrit having a concept doesn't mean it's a conceptual existence. Anyway I'll wait for the scan

This is for manip
And she is also literal fixation
We explained in past thread on how ultimate skills is "Them"

Can you link the thread please? If they're the literal concepts of these things then I want to ask, has any of them been completely destroyed before and I mean their true existences not just their physical body.

"they are independent of the reality they govern" What are you talking about? I didn't mention the all reality.

Reality refers to what the concept governs not all of reality.
The type 1 concept of circles governs all things circular not reality/the world

 

[Jozaysmith?]

No, I read that attributes were the laws that governed the principles of the world.
Principle

1. a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behaviour or for a chain of reasoning.
2. a general scientific theorem or law that has numerous special applications across a wide field.

Umm it wouldn't really change much? We by default assuming all things to have concepts unless stated otherwise thus ifrit having a concept doesn't mean it's a conceptual existence. Anyway I'll wait for the scan

Can you link the thread please? If they're the literal concepts of these things then I want to ask, has any of them been completely destroyed before and I mean their true existences not just their physical body.

Reality refers to what the concept governs not all of reality.
The type 1 concept of circles governs all things circular not reality/the world

So you're saying
Abstract laws that govern reality isnt concept type 2?

Imma let you be

 

[Mafuuu]

So you're saying
Abstract laws that govern reality isnt concept type 2?

Imma let you be

Actually, "govern reality" alone is not enough to be considered a concept, it is only a requirement for CM2.

 

[BlackCat]

I agree with the concept types 1

 

[CodeCCLL]

Reality refers to what the concept governs not all of reality.
The type 1 concept of circles governs all things circular not reality/the world

I say the same thing. Concepts govern the existence of their respective objects in reality and I don't understand why you're talking about this even though I've never used the word "all reality", anyway.

And now here is the biggest problem, you're using true dragons being conceptual existences to imply all spiritual lifeforms are the same. You need statements, dialogues that imply they're the same

Isn't Veldanava like the god of the verse? Existing before the world as a concept can very much be proof of type 1 but I find it hard to understand why all true dragons are equated to Veldanava.
Just to be sure, what exactly do the true dragons as a concept govern?

Have you ever looked at the scans?

 

[CodeCCLL]

Anyway I'll wait for the scan

Here, If you read the whole thing, it actually contains the answer to your question below.

If they're the literal concepts of these things then I want to ask, has any of them been completely destroyed before and I mean their true existences not just their physical body.

It is explained that if they really die somehow, they will be reincarnated because the world cannot exist without them.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Here, If you read the whole thing, it actually contains the answer to your question below.

It is explained that if they really die somehow, they will be reincarnated because the world cannot exist without them.

3 admins have already agreed so no need to worry

 

[CodeCCLL]

3 admins have already agreed so no need to worry

It hasn't been 48 hours yet since this thread was created. So everything is still open to question.