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Top Five Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier 2

>nor did i say that was your pre supposition

You heavily implied that, so, if you aren't even implying it, then why did you bother saying it?

> then why not go get whatever you need to do to get whatever argument if you're not citing the graph itself rather than going circles here

So you was assuming my argument came from the graph, so your entire knowledge of my argument stems from ignorance.

And I already have the scans for the topic, this isn't a CRT where I'm trying to prove my point, and the burden of proof hasn't been upheld throughout this entire debate, so why suddenly tell me to get sources now?

>sure, i can go ahead and cite the people that made a blog about the new masadaverse blog or CRT.

Again, you don't cite people, you cite their works, otherwise you're making an appeal to authority.

>when you cite something when it comes to science u have to use the theory or the epxeriement, but what proves they are wrong or not?

Peer review, the theory will be tested and replicated, to prove if it is wrong or not. The person behind the theory doesn't matter.

>nothing because we believe its true so therefore it cannot be disproven

What? You are high? You don't believe in scientific theory, it's proven to you, I don't just get to pick and choose which theories work for my reality and which don't, this shows your lack of understanding of the topic.

>and what does that even point?

You're citing a flawed and illogical source.

>they would still be possibly 1-A.

And you don't know that, DarkLK could suddenly finish his CRT and make Umineko the strongest verse in fiction, don't assume...again.

> alright lets take this at face value if a law was given and some disagree with it due to its rationality, does that mean it cannot be used?

No, because that's an appeal to popularity? You just proved my point for me.

>ad populumn doesnt inherently destroy the argument as it is being agreed upon on, and so far i havent seen you on discord making the argument for voyagers even having solid 1-A rating or higher.

Why would my presence on DISCORD have any bearing on VSB's ranking of Umineko?

I can debate Umineko wherever I want, where I do it prior to here doesn't matter.

>which we rely on darkLK to do that, which he always isnt active and happens to be on rarely.

I wonder if DarkLK fits into one of the unique clauses I specified?

>what i said prior to this sentence i already said if u dont believe what i said u can ask aeyu what their tiering is and if prom and sera approved to that tiering

I couldn't give fig what Aeyu, Prom and Sera think about the verse currently, stop making an appeal to authority.

>why not try and oppose what they have.

Because I don't go to discord to debate Sera, Aeyu and Prom on Umineko, if I wanted it changed I'd do it here.

>quality of what?

Profile quality and accuracy.
 
His verse's mindhax doesn't really work on large numbers. He does have a spell that cuts his mind from the "Great Web" of minds, and makes it so that mindhax can't reach him, since it's not connected to the world or smth.

If you mess his mind enough the universe goes boom though.
 
Hm, Shinobu's isn't so much a mindhax wave or anything like that, and it's passive on seeing her so a spell to cut his mind off wouldn't really help. When people see her beauty they offer up what's most valuable to them, for some this is body parts, and for some this is their lives.

How do you think that would play out with Zach?
 
Well, "significant tempering" of his mind triggers a restart, so a strong compulsion like that might be enough to make the universe go boom.

Although, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure if the 3-A is usuable in this kinds of matches, got some conflicting responses before. The way it works is that Zach is stuck in a "time loop", that is actually an alternate universe that is a perfect copy of the real one at a certain point in time. When the restart triggers, the universe is destroyed and recreated as the start of the loop, with Zach's soul (and the souls of any other loopers) being the only things that can survive and be reincarnated into the next copy bodies. Any opponent from a different verse wouldn't be a part of the "schematic" that recreates the universe, so they shouldn't be recreated as well.

The thing is that it relies entirely on Zach being inside this copy universe, it won't work anywhere else, but he does spend 90% of the story inside the loop, so I'm not too sure about this. >_>
 
There's a bunch of characters that have their powers rely on being inside a particular area.

That does mostly seem like it would beat Shinobu, but I'm not so sure about the idea that none of Zach's opponents would be recreated. If the series intends the power to perfectly recreate reality at a certain point in time, I think it's reasonable to assume that Zach's opponent is part of that reality.

But I'm not 100% sure on the details, if in-verse only the loopers get recreated and most humans don't then I'd be fine with saying Shinobu doesn't survive. But if most humans do get recreated, I think it'd be incon.
 
Well, what happened was that the time loop's mechanism basically took a screenshot of the whole universe at a certain point in time, then created it in this alternate place. If someone who wasn't there when the screenshot was taken were to enter the universe in the middle of the loop, they shouldn't be recreated with the rest, since they're more of a foreign element.

Everyone who was present at the moment of the screenshot gets "recreated". I put it in air quotes since it's less of them being recreated and more like being copied again from the original template. The regular people in the loop just get their bodies and souls destroyed then another copy of them is created, while certain people with a mark only get their bodies destroyed, with their souls being put inside the next copies of their bodies, keeping their memories and magical abilities stored in their souls.
 
Then I'd say that whoever Zach gets matched up against (assuming they're old enough) should be considered to be there when the screenshot was taken.
 
Wait, how is Eru and the Lotr characters smurfs??

Also, Discord, Sidious for 4-B. Sidious above discord (Sidious isn't a smurf, but he should be in one of the strongest for 4-B on the smurf thread anyway),

Cole Macgrath as the beast for High 7-A and movie pennywise for 9-A
 
Well, then it gets a bit tricky. The loop can only last for one month, it starts at 2 in the morning one month before a planetary aligment. Zach always starts sleeping at his mansion and only wakes up later in the morning, I think.

Would need to choose a place for her to start, and figure out if she'd know about the battle, since she shouldn't keep her memories of what happened even if a copy of hers is created.

So, 3 possibilities. 1 - She doesn't have a marker on her soul, and she just gets a copy of her created along with all the regular people. In that case, he can't really kill her for good, since she'll just respawn every month no matter what he does. His only chance is a soulkilll dagger that erases her from the screenshot.

Or 2 - She has a lesser mark on her soul, one that keeps her memories between restarts, but doesn't reset the world when she dies or gets hurt in mind or soul. In that case, he can try destroying her mind.

Or 3 - She has the same marker as him, so both will always respawn and their minds and souls can't be hurt, so it's just a tie, unless Zach manages to exit the copy universe and leaves her there until the restarts run out of energy and the universe collapses for good.
 
I'd assume 1. But remember that under SBA incap, KO, and BFR are all viable wincons. This means that even if she would get resurrected at the end of the month, since she'd be dead until then it's a win for Zach

Would Zach be able to incap/KO/kill her without seeing her once he knows about her ability?
 
In that case, he should be able to figure out that he shouldn't look at her, then it's just a matter of using divinations to find out where she is and nuke her with some artillery magic from a mile away.
 
Yeah, Zach should be able to win then.
 
IDK enough about the others, but Alakazam might not be able too depending on how Miracle Eye works.

Granted, I despise miracle eye and resistance negation as a whole
 
I mean, none of them are on relativistic+, so even if by only a little Cole should be moving first.

Second Christ is downright only Hypersonic+ and Negi only reaches Relativistic in Raiten Taiso.
 
Xue Ying more than sure can contend with Cole but it's Immeasurable speed for attacks smurf? In his High 7-A key he doesn't have anything out of his tier.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Anyway, yeah, like I said, Toda Mikuki should very much take top High 3-A and some spot in 9-B.

Unless Concept Manip counts as smurf? I wouldn't be surprised but I don't know.
Any ability or AP on a dimensionality higher than the character's AP is smurf.
 
As far as I am aware this doesn't apply for her conceptual manip, but I admit to be dumb enough that I am not sure whether Concept Manip by itself already counts or it depends what type it is (I assume the later).
 
I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
Wait, how is Eru and the Lotr characters smurfs??
Also, Discord, Sidious for 4-B. Sidious above discord (Sidious isn't a smurf, but he should be in one of the strongest for 4-B on the smurf thread anyway),

Cole Macgrath as the beast for High 7-A and movie pennywise for 9-A
^^^
 
Concept Manip that isn't higher-dimensional is not smurf.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Xue Ying more than sure can contend with Cole but it's Immeasurable speed for attacks smurf? In his High 7-A key he doesn't have anything out of his tier.
<MHS

Cole utterly god blitzes before he can think of using immeasurable attacks. If Cole has a way to win Xue gets stomped unequal
 
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